Eventual discussion about network positioning

Are you sure its not AGPS using that data instead?

bartmanekul wrote:Are you sure its not AGPS using that data instead?

Yes, im pretty sure, coz it has disabled network usage too (only 'integrated' gps and 'network based'😉.

And in addition, network based stopped to work, Nokia maps are thinking that Im at last GPS position no matter of that im at different BTS. Before upgrading to Nokia Maps 2.0 it worked without problems.

K.

bartmanekul wrote:Are you sure its not AGPS using that data instead?

By the way, im using Garmin on the same settings of GPS device and it doesnt use internet.

K.

Hmm. Although thats a very tiny amount of data, it could be a problem to anyone who doesnt have a dataplan or is roaming.

Might check it myself later.

Edit: Nope, no data at all. I searched, did a route, and started and restarted nokia maps twice. Not a single data packet.

You could try turning off network positioning as I think this uses data also.

Other than that, you either missed an option somewhere or its another app using data.

bartmanekul wrote:Hmm. Although thats a very tiny amount of data, it could be a problem to anyone who doesnt have a dataplan or is roaming.

Might check it myself later.

Edit: Nope, no data at all. I searched, did a route, and started and restarted nokia maps twice. Not a single data packet.

You could try turning off network positioning as I think this uses data also.

Other than that, you either missed an option somewhere or its another app using data.

I am such a moron that have no dataplan coz in my country its still quite bad to have it coz of 1 GB data limit and not cheap periodic fee.

I think theres much more such countries still.

But anyway, Nokia has to be quite a pig to be like this. I could expect that third party software could do this, even viruses, etc, but NOKIA?!? With all those certificates shit that is supposed to "secure users" ?!? Sorry, but this is a BIG misunderstanding and poofs that Nokia piss on us.

K.

Hang on, Im saying that I cannot seem to get any data transferred when I set it to offline.

You must have some other software or got a setting wrong to get data transmitted. I suspect network positioning.

If I use Maps in offline mode no data are transferred. The phone doesn't even attempt to make a connection.

BtG wrote:If I use Maps in offline mode no data are transferred. The phone doesn't even attempt to make a connection.

Is Nokia Maps the same version as i pasted? I dont think so.

K.

krzych wrote:Is Nokia Maps the same version as i pasted? I dont think so.

K.

I am using v2.0 wk21 b02 and it [SIZE="3"]does not[/SIZE] use data unless [SIZE="3"]I[/SIZE] tell it to.

I suggest you investigate this further before making unsubstantiated rants and raves.

.. I have Maps 2.0 installed and I run it offline .. I checked your assertion .. by opening the packet data log at the same time I had maps open .. as BtG noted NOT A SINGLE BYTE is transferred.

Now I checked a couple of possibilities .. I have Traffic info update set to "manual" reroute due to traffic "always ask"

Internet Go online at startup = "No"

please check your settings. 😊

krzych wrote:Yes, im pretty sure, coz it has disabled network usage too (only 'integrated' gps and 'network based'😉.

And in addition, network based stopped to work, Nokia maps are thinking that Im at last GPS position no matter of that im at different BTS. Before upgrading to Nokia Maps 2.0 it worked without problems.

K.

Isn't "Network Based" AGPS? It takes the local network transmitter IDS and sends them to Nokia over the internet to get a local fix to aid it.

"Network Based" is not = A-GPS.

"Network Based" is actually a network service (if the operator supports it) to ascertain the location based on the cellular basestation the phone is connected to, what other basestations are around, what the timing and signal strength is, information network operators have where the basestations are physically, and their antenna direction, sector width, etc., to calculate an approximate location without any GPS satellite data.

Most network operators do not support network based location services (except for the extent that may be required for emergency services; police/fire/medical), but that's necessarily not exposed to applications running on the phone at all.

krzych,

sorry to say, but my nokia maps does not use any data. i think you are not using your application properly, because i've never had this problem. you are missing something, and immediately blaming nokia, when nobody else has these problems. nokia maps does not send data unless you set it up to send data. so maybe you should re-check everything.

Just pondering over your predicament krzych and I remembered previous posts of yours about Nokia Maps and downloading version 2.0 to your phone via a "hotspot", see here:-

http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/forum//forum/thread/72921/

and here:-

http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/forum//forum/thread/72928/

It then occurred to me that after having done that and got a lock which shows your present position, and the surrounding area for some distance, did you then download the full map of Poland onto a computer using Nokia Map Loader and transfer it to your phone or have you been travelling around and downloading bits of the map piece meal as you go.
This may well account for your data usage with Maps that no one else is experiencing.

Ok ppl, before you all tell that I'm a total freak and ignore me, lets start from the beginning.

I live GPS very much. That is the reason I doenloaded many stuff for my Nokia to check it and eventually use. As always in life, i downloaded few other things too coz as you know, software places has all in place so when my eyes see something pretty, my fingers click it.

Now... I installed that software (plenty of it) in few days (not just one, few in monday, few wednesday, and few more at friday). Somewhere about friday I have noticed that at strange hours there is a row in log that I have used few kilos of my INTERNET (not WLAN, not WAP nor other, but INTERNET connection). Lets say it straight - IM NOT USING A DATAPLAN, so i cannot afford to use INTERNET not by my WLAN when im AT HOME.

So... That was VERY suspicious and i have started to watch everything in FEW DAYS. Not just one, not just one application, but FEW and in FEW DAYS. When i have noticed that I CANNOT TELL which of them is doing this, i decided to uninstall one by one.

And yes, you have guessed, Ive uninstalled nearly ALL OF THEM before i noticed that whenever i use Nokia Maps, those times of INET usage are suspiciously close to it (i thought that its only close, but when i started to observe Nokia Maps i have realised that its not close but EXACTLY WHEN I START NOKIA MAPS with DISABLED INTERNET CONNECTION).

Uhh. Its a bit hard to explain to others that im not complete idiot, but i will continue...

Then i thought to myself - IMPOSSIBLE!! That CANT BE! I dont believe that NOKIA (best know cellphone producer) makes me fool like this!

So... Ive downloaded Nokia Maps again - latest version. I was so angry then that I even didnt wrote down version before download so i cant tell is that the same version now or not. But it STILL uses INET.

Now, you could tell that I imagine things... But then i will say: "So explain to me bro, why when i have stopped to use ONLY Nokia Maps, i have no entries in my log of INET usage?"

Ok. And the last, only thing. Maybe that changes something - I have analytic mind, im a developer. Lets say, programmer and designer in one.

Now... DO you believe me and will help to find why NOKIA MAPS USES INTERNET or will you just claim still that Im blind or stupid? ;P If you cant tell me why, just dont tell me its not this. Coz IT IS.

K.

PS. Btw. Im going to install SDK, write an network monitor app and catch this shit, but it will take time coz i develop on linux and never seen symbian before, but i will do it sooner or later.

AAAAAAND:

Yet another thing to proove that im really not blind:

When i stopped using Nokia Maps, i rebooted almost clean phone just to be sure, and observed few days. Nothing. No INET usage. And then to proove that it IS Nokia Maps, I used it once. After that there was EXACTLY ONE ENTRY IN LOG, EXACTLY WITH THE SAME SIZES, and EXACTLY AT THE TIME I RUN NOKIA MAPS. Is it enough to BELIEVE?

I know that you have no such issues, I BELIEVE you. But believe me too! Why should I lie? :P

[email protected] wrote:did you then download the full map of Poland onto a computer using Nokia Map Loader and transfer it to your phone or have you been travelling around and downloading bits of the map piece meal as you go.
This may well account for your data usage with Maps that no one else is experiencing.

Yes, i have full Europe including Poland, and no, i dont use Nokia Map Loader, and to prevent next question - i scorll whole Europe for few minutes and INET connection is only ONE PACKET and only 412 KB received, and my browsing shows whole Europe. So no, its not map tile downloading. But thanks for being interested.

K.

krzych wrote:Yes, i have full Europe including Poland, and no, i dont use Nokia Map Loader, and to prevent next question - i scorll whole Europe for few minutes and INET connection is only ONE PACKET and only 412 KB received, and my browsing shows whole Europe. So no, its not map tile downloading. But thanks for being interested.

K.

If you don't use Map Loader, how do you get the entire map of Europe (1384.7MB) onto your phone ?

I suspect you simply don't know how to use Maps properly.

krzych wrote:Yes, i have full Europe including Poland, and no, i dont use Nokia Map Loader, and to prevent next question - i scorll whole Europe for few minutes and INET connection is only ONE PACKET and only 412 KB received, and my browsing shows whole Europe. So no, its not map tile downloading. But thanks for being interested.

K.

OK. So lets get this straight..... am I correct in thinking that you do not use a computer and Nokia Map Loader to get the whole of the Europe maps onto your phone which is the way I guess that most people on this forum are doing it.
So therefore you must have downloaded them to your phone directly. To give you an idea of size the Nokia Map Loader lists Europe as being 1384.7MB with just the map of Poland being 68.1MB.

lovesign wrote:If you don't use Map Loader, how do you get the entire map of Europe (1384.7MB) onto your phone ?

I suspect you simply don't know how to use Maps properly.

LOL! That was REALLY FUNNY 😃

Take a look: http://nokiamaps.moo.no/

By the way, even at original nokia forum some ppl will redirect you there if you dont like .NET coz it is only alternative not to install few hundreds of kb .NET (useless for me to be honest).

Think before you type. Or maybe... google before you type and insult anyone that way.

K.

krzych wrote:LOL! That was REALLY FUNNY 😃

Take a look: http://nokiamaps.moo.no/

By the way, even at original nokia forum some ppl will redirect you there if you dont like .NET coz it is only alternative not to install few hundreds of kb .NET (useless for me to be honest).

Think before you type. Or maybe... google before you type and insult anyone that way.

K.

Wow, you're really pretty rude to people who are going out of their way to try to help you. You obviously think you're smarter than all these decent people who are trying to solve your problem, so why don't you solve it your damned self?

BtG wrote:Wow, you're really pretty rude to people who are going out of their way to try to help you. You obviously think you're smarter than all these decent people who are trying to solve your problem, so why don't you solve it your damned self?

Im not the one who is rude. Tell me, what is the point of posting a thing like lovesign did? Any clue in his post? NO. But if you read carefully, you will find that he is suspecting me to be the one who is not able to use Nokia Maps...

Oh God Lovesign, teach me please.

K.

PS. Sorry, but his post is useless and IT IS rude. And it is just TO BE rude or to increase post count.

[email protected] wrote:OK. So lets get this straight..... am I correct in thinking that you do not use a computer and Nokia Map Loader to get the whole of the Europe maps onto your phone which is the way I guess that most people on this forum are doing it.
So therefore you must have downloaded them to your phone directly. To give you an idea of size the Nokia Map Loader lists Europe as being 1384.7MB with just the map of Poland being 68.1MB.

Not quite again. I use computer and I use Nokia software for that as many other ppl at this forum too I suppose. Take a look at http://nokiamaps.moo.no/ as I pointed above, there is good explanation how to do it, why to do it, and why it works good. And it does. And yep, its about 1,3GB of Europe with 68 MB of Poland included.

But... What about it? I have the same as others, why it matters?

K.

I don't really see how this has managed to drag on for so long, but it just sounds like AGPS, which is totally unrelated to Nokia Maps......

Setting Network usage to Never in Maps just means that the app itself wont' download anything, but when it tries to ask the OS for GPS data, the GPS module will use a few kilobytes of data if AGPS is enabled. Look here to check for sure:

Main Menu -> Tools -> Settings -> General -> Positioning -> Positioning methods

and see if Assisted GPS has a tick next to it.

randomfan wrote:
and see if Assisted GPS has a tick next to it.

As I said before, nope. It hasnt. Only enabled is internal and network (its BTS usage)

K.

PS. Ppl, please, try to focus on what i wrote. I doublechecked that all, and im pretty sure its not GPS part of the system and not any of other apps. It seems in any way that its Nokia Maps.

krzych wrote:As I said before, nope. It hasnt. Only enabled is internal and network (its BTS usage)

K.

PS. Ppl, please, try to focus on what i wrote. I doublechecked that all, and im pretty sure its not GPS part of the system and not any of other apps. It seems in any way that its Nokia Maps.

Ehh, in addition, I said before too that Garmin which also uses GPS is NOT causing that problem.

If only forums were more advanced, i would post it as a sticky set of "well known facts for the readers" not to cause misunderstandings but afaik only moderators can do that. Or maybe im wrong?

K.

I did read what you said before, just wanted to check anyway... Because there is no other way Maps can generate traffic really...

Anyway, you said that even when the phone is set to Offline profile you can still reproduce the traffic? That really shouldn't be possible at all, whether from Maps or not.

I know this isn't really helping with your problem, but if everything you said is true then I don't think there is anything to do other than trying to reflash or something similarly drastic. As you can see there are others with the same settings and software versions, but failed to reproduce your problem.

randomfan wrote:I did read what you said before, just wanted to check anyway... Because there is no other way Maps can generate traffic really...

Anyway, you said that even when the phone is set to Offline profile you can still reproduce the traffic? That really shouldn't be possible at all, whether from Maps or not.

I know this isn't really helping with your problem, but if everything you said is true then I don't think there is anything to do other than trying to reflash or something similarly drastic. As you can see there are others with the same settings and software versions, but failed to reproduce your problem.

Nope, i didnt said that in phone offline profile i observed anything coz i never did such experiment, i just said that nokia maps in their offline mode...

But its a good point, ill try it tommorow. Im wondering what will happen.

And i know im a specific in this one, but i wanna be as normal as the others, believe me 😉.

K.

PS. Good night 😊

I did say, a while ago, that it could well be network positioning using the data, would certainly explain the small amount.

It would also explain why nokia maps uses data and Garmin doesnt. I think maps supports network location, and Garmin doesnt.

Either way, its safe to say its not nokia maps since a lot of people on here have tried it (including myself), and no data was sent.

bartmanekul wrote:I did say, a while ago, that it could well be network positioning using the data, would certainly explain the small amount.

It would also explain why nokia maps uses data and Garmin doesnt. I think maps supports network location, and Garmin doesnt.

Either way, its safe to say its not nokia maps since a lot of people on here have tried it (including myself), and no data was sent.

Then you will be surprised today coz i have screenshot and some information about running it on phone's offline profile.

And its true, Nokia Maps uses internet without my permission. Now, im gonna post the screenshots if its possible... [seeking]