iphone 3G vs N95

Aurial wrote:

Other than that and the lack of the forward facing camera (which I have never once used on my N95) there isn't really a lot in it. As I said I can add Bluetooth support, video recording, MMS support, etc by software. It's lacking flash in but then the only time that ever seems to work on my N95 is on youtube and even then the implimentation is quite poor.

I have a lot to think about.

Are the Bluetooth to other phones, video recording, sound recording, MMS, etc: official Apple programmes or are they hacks that will be eliminated, or worse still brick the iPhone, when there's an update, as we have seen with other unlocks and hacks on the iPhone?

Since they are third party applications, presumably they are not as easy to get to as everything else in the nice UI?

Ive said it before and I'll say it again - if you want all the functions, you have to have a more complex (or for the apple nuts, 'a less enjoyable'😉 interface.

The apple nuts cannot have it both ways:

'The iphone has the best UI, its not cluttered or clumsy etc etc'.

'The iphone can do that via third party apps!'

When obviously, adding things via third party apps makes having a slick UI redundant.

You simply cannot cram all that functionality into a UI like the iphones.

So, you want a vastly configurable phone with lots of features, make sacrifices.

Though I dont see that using symbian is a sacrifice, or that Im missing out on anything.

Personally, my view is that even if an interface is 'fun' to use, the fun wears off, but functionality doesn't.

However I do understand your position Aurial, and if you dont use the functions the iphone doesnt have, its a big pull to use something like that.

Personally, my view is that even if an interface is 'fun' to use, the fun wears off, but functionality doesn't

I concur 😎

bartmanekul wrote:Since they are third party applications, presumably they are not as easy to get to as everything else in the nice UI?

Ive said it before and I'll say it again - if you want all the functions, you have to have a more complex (or for the apple nuts, 'a less enjoyable'😉 interface.

The apple nuts cannot have it both ways:

'The iphone has the best UI, its not cluttered or clumsy etc etc'.

'The iphone can do that via third party apps!'

When obviously, adding things via third party apps makes having a slick UI redundant.

You simply cannot cram all that functionality into a UI like the iphones.

So, you want a vastly configurable phone with lots of features, make sacrifices.

Though I dont see that using symbian is a sacrifice, or that Im missing out on anything.

Personally, my view is that even if an interface is 'fun' to use, the fun wears off, but functionality doesn't.

However I do understand your position Aurial, and if you dont use the functions the iphone doesnt have, its a big pull to use something like that.

I don't know why you argue vociferously against the iPhone without knowing the facts. At present, any third party apps installed through a 'jail broken' iPhone work in exactly the same way as other apps. There is no difficulty it getting them working. They just work, plain and simple. This only serves to highlight the shortfalls of the Nokia interface. With the 2.0 software the breadth of software will only increase.

Now don't get me wrong, I love plenty of elements and features of my N95 8GB but the interface it so clunky, unintuitive and long-winded I often think about stamping on it.
However, it does score points for:

1. the sheer amount of hardware tucked into it,
2. the form factor (despite my opinion that the dual slider is an utterly pointless contrivance), which I prefer to the wide flat feel of the iPhone
3. podcasts downloaded over Wi-Fi (rather than the need to sync as with iPhone although this is sure to be sorted shortly)
4. great video capture quality

But. And it's a big 'but'. The interface is simply TERRIBLE! I don't honestly know how anyone with a brain between their ears can argue it is a good UI. I mean - I have to tell it how to connect to the internet every bloody time I use the browser for crying out loud! Why can't it just figure it out??

Some will no doubt argue along the lines of... 'we don't all have to have phones for simpletons' or 'if people can't work the phone - that's their problem'. However, such responses are infantile and completely missing the point. The iPhone proves that powerful applications and intuitive interface are not mutually exclusive. For that, we should all be thankful.

Ben Frain wrote:I don't know why you argue vociferously against the iPhone without knowing the facts. At present, any third party apps installed through a 'jail broken' iPhone work in exactly the same way as other apps. There is no difficulty it getting them working. They just work, plain and simple. This only serves to highlight the shortfalls of the Nokia interface. With the 2.0 software the breadth of software will only increase.

Now don't get me wrong, I love plenty of elements and features of my N95 8GB but the interface it so clunky, unintuitive and long-winded I often think about stamping on it.
However, it does score points for:

1. the sheer amount of hardware tucked into it,
2. the form factor (despite my opinion that the dual slider is an utterly pointless contrivance), which I prefer to the wide flat feel of the iPhone
3. podcasts downloaded over Wi-Fi (rather than the need to sync as with iPhone although this is sure to be sorted shortly)
4. great video capture quality

But. And it's a big 'but'. The interface is simply TERRIBLE! I don't honestly know how anyone with a brain between their ears can argue it is a good UI. I mean - I have to tell it how to connect to the internet every bloody time I use the browser for crying out loud! Why can't it just figure it out??

Some will no doubt argue along the lines of... 'we don't all have to have phones for simpletons' or 'if people can't work the phone - that's their problem'. However, such responses are infantile and completely missing the point. The iPhone proves that powerful applications and intuitive interface are not mutually exclusive. For that, we should all be thankful.

Im not that much against the iphone. Ive said before that Im greateful of it, mainly for giving nokia a kick up the backside.

But my issue is the apple nuts agreeing with Steve jobs that its 5 years ahead. Granted, the interface is good, but that remark is way off. And you hear so much about how the iphone is better. Quite frankly, its not.

For some people it will be, and like anything, if it suits them and they are pleased with it, then all the better. Thats what you ultimatly want from a device, not things you dont use or like.

My point about the apps has nothing to do with jailbreaking. Point is, that you cant have it both ways, the iphone has a wonderful UI thats simple to use, *and* it can do MMS etc by third party applications.

They might work fine, but they are not so simply integreated into the UI.

Is the third party method of sending an MMS as easy as the N95, which has it built in?

Think of it as saying the N95 has a brilliant and compact form factor. And that it has a really powerful xenon flash. But you have added a large flash clipped on, which ruins your form factor comment. But your still saying both.

Its your opinion that the interface on the N95 is clunky. But thats your opinion only, and debatable. Granted, theres flaws, but Im sure theres at least one or 2 on the iphone.

Whats clear is that the iphones interface is better.

However, back to my original comment.

I do not think its possible to have a phone with as many functions and options as the N95, to have a UI as easy to use as the iphones. Theres too many options. Prove me wrong apple.

But until they add things like MMS, video recording, proper bluetooth, and all the rest of it, my point remains valid (and not infantile).

Unless of course, you can come up with a slick UI with all the functions in? 😉

Imo, they shouldnt even be compared. One is a touchscreen ease of use device, while the other is a keypad convergance device, with highly customisable options. You simply cannot categorically say ones better, as they are so different people will have a clear preferance to one.

Title removed - less of that sort of stuff.

What's going on with all the sudden homophobia on this forum this week?:con?

Aurial wrote:What's going on with all the sudden homophobia on this forum this week?:con?

Please stop the immature name calling. Its also worth remembering that there are millions of happy iphone users.

Oh boy sorry to have offended you and your iphone! Thanks for editing my post though. I forgot that this is a forum and we gotta say what you want us to say 🙄

Just to add fuel to the fire...

Sun Microsystems have announced that they are releasing a java platform for the iPhone later in the summer, and Adobe look like they're going to be hot on their heels with Flash support. Both have been implemented using the recently released SDK which was demo'd at WWDC and is by all accounts very easy to program with and very powerful. The Krul (or whatever it was called) 3d platform game that was shown had been in development for only two weeks.

Other news surfacing is that Apple are believed to be under considerable pressure to release native MMS support for the iPhone in an upcoming software update. Apparantly the service is a big earner for the networks and they want it supported asap.

Now if only they could sort out that damned camera!

I had another play with an iphone today in an 02 store. It reaffirmed my thinking, its an incrediably nice phone, but not for me.

Theres faboys on both sides, nokia included (as this thread sadly shows).

why exactly is symbian s60 so hard to write code for? i read a lot about it being difficult to develop applications on this platform. but i thought you can use C++ so i would think that would be pretty universal and standard. what am i missing? BTW i know nothing of coding other than 1 c++ class i took in college.

DSMKilla wrote: Oh boy sorry to have offended you and your iphone! Thanks for editing my post though. I forgot that this is a forum and we gotta say what you want us to say 🙄

People are allowed to say whatever they want here, as long as its not offensive, or immature - or just pointless drivel. You calling all iphone users gay is offensive and immature. And adds absoloutly nothing to the thread.

Your more than welcome to list why you dont like the iphone, and the flaws you see in it (which is why I left your image there), although I think thats been pretty much covered.

But childish name calling isnt tolerated, if you dont like it, leave and join a forum more oriented towards younger people.

Btw, in case you hadnt noticed, I do not own, or want, an iphone. But that doesnt stop me appriciating the good points of them.

RogerPodacter wrote:why exactly is symbian s60 so hard to write code for? i read a lot about it being difficult to develop applications on this platform. but i thought you can use C++ so i would think that would be pretty universal and standard. what am i missing? BTW i know nothing of coding other than 1 c++ class i took in college.

The language is a pretty common standard but the APIs are very Symbian specific. I guess (and this really is just a guess, so I could be completely wrong!) that a chunk of of the iPhone SDK is probably similar to MacOS X / unix variants if, as Jobs claims, it really is MacOS X underneath the UI.

Windows Mobile has a fair amount in common with Windows development (even more so if you opt for managed code, which is then practically identical other than more limited UI components) - Symbian just doesn't have another platform so similar with it, so it's harder for developers to just jump in with native applications.

Java is of course a good entry point to Symbian phone development, and you can use Nokia specific extensions if you want to become more platform specific, but you are uniklely won't get the same performance or the same functionality.

Edit: I should add that more recently, Symbian PIPS has become available that provides a nice chunk of the POSIX API for developers to use which lowers the entry level to unix variant developers a bit.

I'd like to add my thoughts on the matter as well, having just sold my N95-1 to buy the new iPhone 3G when it's released.

I've had the iPod Touch (same interface as iPhone) and must say the that user interface and especially the Safari Browser is much better than on the N95.

Everything is very "fluid" and fast and "just works" without any strange lockups or "slowness" that I often experienced on the N95 - it just seems more "solid".

I use an iMac at home, so the whole point for me is total integration and useability.

However there ARE some tradeoffs that I'm forced to accept, so I'd like to share my thoughs on these:

1. The camera is nowhere near the N95's (which I've used quite a lot).

- This used to be a deal-breaker for me, but I've come to the conclusion that the iPhone's camera is "good enough" for a fast point & click, and looking at this Flickr group convinced me that I can live with it:

http://www.flickr.com/groups/takenwithiphone/pool/

Granted it's only 2Mpix, but since I hardly ever print out pictures anymore, and "zooming by cropping" does not give great results even on the N95 - it should do nicely. OK, there's no "flash" but let's face it even the N95 does not take very good pictures indoor or at night - better to use a REAL camera for that.

2. No video recording

- This is just something I have to live with. I've used the feature on the N95 a number of times, but not nearly as much as the camera. I've decided I can live without it, but it does "sting" a little

3. No MMS

- Never used it, probably never will, so it's not a problem for me.

4. No "Garmin Mobile" (at least for now)

- Not a big deal. I purchased a stand-alone Garmin Nuvi for about �100 since I want to use the iPhone for showing video in the car (for the kids) anyway.

I can use Google maps for pedestrian navigation, although data charges may limit that when traveling (but then again I don't travel THAT much).

5. No VOIP

- This is something I expect to be sorted quite fast via 3rd party apps. Probably only via WIFI, but that's how I used it on the N95 as well.

6. No sync with Outlook 2000

A bit annoying, but hopefully someday my company will enter the new millennium and upgrade our email system 😃

I'll be swithing to Google Calendar on my own domain (which I can sync with iCal on my Mac using a program called BusySync). Hopefully they will one day allow me to use the Exchange support on the iPhone, instead of forcing everyone to use Blackberry's on our Exchange system.

7. No direct download of Podcasts

OK, it may be sorted down the road, but since I'll probably be syncing with iTunes daily anyway, it's not a biggie.

As you can see, there are a number of tradeoffs, but for me at least the biggest difference will be the camera, which I have decided to accept. Other than that, the tradeoffs are minor, but in my opinion I'm also gaining a lot:

• Much better interface (in my opinion) and a more "fluid" and stable operating system.
• Better keyboard for typing SMS and mail (some may disagree, but I've used both and the iPhone keyboard wins hands down once you've learned to use it).
• Much better browser (which means that I can actually use my company's web mail OK (combined with the on-screen keyboard) it was always a bit cramped on the N95's small screen and slow browser (compared to Safari)).
• Top-notch media player
• Awesome games (the demo's so far looks GREAT, and prices seems to be the same or lower than N-Gage games).

And probably other things as well. I loved my N95 (and will surely miss it - already do), but I think Apple's plans for the iPhone (and iPod touch) are to build a whole new PLATFORM, focused on mobility and "the cloud" and I wan't to take advantage of that.

Ohh, and I also love Macs 😉

I hope this added some depth to the discussion. Both devices are great, but some may favor one over the other, and now you know why I decided for the iPhone.

And that is the sort of post which is needed.

Point 4 though, has pros and cons. It means your coughing up �100 extra, and have to have another device.

However, you do have the huge advantage of Tomtom coming to the iphone (of which I admit Im jealous).

I think we may need to add N96, HTC Diamond and HTC Touch Pro into the equation too. They seem to be valid contenders for the battle to become YOUR new smartphone, depending on needs and preference. Right?

Bartmanekul,
as you may have guessed, I am SO with you on that TT comment. Really makes a huge difference to the way I view the iPhone. Now it could actually become interesting to me 😊

Yeah, well you never know, they might have a big multiplatformed mobile release planned.

[SIZE="1"]Ha, who am I kidding.[/SIZE]

Well I recently saw an interesting post that may put a damper on those thinking of getting the iphone because of TT....

apparently Apple's SDK agreement has a clause stating �Applications may not be designed or marketed for real time route guidance; automatic or autonomous control of vehicles, aircraft, or other mechanical devices; dispatch or fleet management; or emergency or life-saving purposes.�

Could be a way to stop others getting a slice of its Google Maps market.

Sounds like an article I read here detailing the missing features from the iPhone 3G:-

http://www.iphoneuser.ca/2008/06/some-missing-features-from-the-iphone-3g/

chrsfrwll wrote:Well I recently saw an interesting post that may put a damper on those thinking of getting the iphone because of TT....

apparently Apple's SDK agreement has a clause stating �Applications may not be designed or marketed for real time route guidance; automatic or autonomous control of vehicles, aircraft, or other mechanical devices; dispatch or fleet management; or emergency or life-saving purposes.�

Could be a way to stop others getting a slice of its Google Maps market.

Just been doing some further reading on this. Apparently a TomTom France spokesman has said that he believes that Apple's SDK rule won't be a problem to them. He seems to think that it's in there because they don't want to be held responsible for people being sent the wrong way or something :con?

Bizzarr!

He also said words to the effect that it's not likely to be ready for the launch of the app store. In fact he didn't confirm it ever would be.

Link:
http://www.mobilecomputermag.co.uk/20080616584/tomtom-on-iphone-3g-continuing-straight-on.html

Hello,

Thease two device is for two different kind of people.
Thease 2 device are different outside and inside too.
The iPhone is a touch screen design, the N95 not.
The iPhone is a cellular enabled touch screen media player with beautiful design and excellent user interface, the N95 is a full media boosted smartphone, navsystem out of the box, ready to play, watch, share, communicate entertain...
The iPhone was not designed to be an N95 competitor, the n95 was there allready that time.
The iPhone was a logical step after all mid range mobile phones beat iPods features, the N95 was born to show the world that a mobile device can do even more.

Thease two are two different category. Don't compare them.

I believe that the iPhone users are fully satisfied with their device and the N95 owners too.
Me personally like the iPhone's design and touch interface, but it's just not for me. I like the n95's power and all that things stuffed inside i like the themes and so on, but i do not own an N95. I have E90, but I don't say its better then IPhone or N95.

Guys don't compare thease two please. Compare the Iphone with the upcoming Nokia Tube with S60 touch UI. Yes those have to be compared.

Thank's for your patient to reed this long post.

Cheers

Life isn't static. This means that your needs are not exactly the same year by year. Perhaps you don't need as many options now, or you need some specific function now, you didn't last year. Each platform developes so the one that didn't cover your needs last year, may be sufficient now. So now you may take advantage of the plusses that another platform has, without missing out on the specific function(s) that made you choose your current.

I think discussions about switching platform is a sign of a healthy community, that aren't completely locked down in a 'my platform is best, yours suck' battle.

Well said. Although I do like the iphone, I know for a fact a touchscreen only device isnt for me, even though it might be nice to use. Im just so much faster with a keypad.

And no matter what the novelty value, its going to wear off. An iphone for me is not practical in any way.

bartmanekul wrote:An iphone for me is not practical in any way.

Whilst I tend to agree, I do find myself being drawn into its web. As I watch a lot of movies on my N95, I find the iphone's screen so alluring. OK, I could get a Touch but I've never wanted to have two items when one would do, ever since phones became "smart". And I keep coming up with reasons to have one

Picasa client available for it
RSS reader available
Camera inferiority - using the SLR more and quick snaps are only emailed or web posted, so 2Mp would probably be enough;
No video - counting back over the year of N95 ownership I find the number of videos taken on the N95 to only just be in double figures;
No MMS - inconvenient but again not that many pics sent by MMS in the last year and probably addressable in the near future;
Sat Nav - no TT not an issue as I use Navicore anyway. I'm sure whatever is available will suffice for the times I don't have a dedicated TT unit.
Voip - absence a bit of a pain but, stop the press, just seen there is now a legit client available for Skype and Yahoo, so problem possibly solved
File Transfer - will miss SymSMB and the USB data transfer function, as I use this a lot on the N95. Jury out.

There are more and more iphone apps becoming available in the Apple app store and while a lot will be junk, there are some showing potential. It all feels like a black hole gravitational pull to me....

I totaly agree with you.

I agree too, your experience seems very similar to mine, yes there are shortcomings, but when you think of it - they're not that big of a problem.

I believe the platform has great potential, I mean - this is a whole new platform, only a year old, and just look at how much iPhone optimized stuff that's already out there (web sites, software (for jailbroken iPhones and soon in the app-store) etc.).

This has the potential to become huge because all Mac developers can directly develop for the iPhone platform too (they use the same tools).

I'll keep my N95. If I changed to an iphone 3g I'd have to carry a camera/video and a GPS with me all the time, just to make sure I wasn't missing out.

The N95 is still the best convergence device in my book.

s.

sturgeon wrote:I'll keep my N95. If I changed to an iphone 3g I'd have to carry a camera/video and a GPS with me all the time, just to make sure I wasn't missing out.

The N95 is still the best convergence device in my book.

s.

That's my (and others) point. Yes the N95 is a very good convergence device but I have found, looking back over the year of ownership, that I'm not using all its features as much now. Taking your points, for serious pics I've reverted to my SLR (forgotten how good it is to shoot in RAW), for videos I've been using my video camera, GPS - well I have a TT Go as well as Navicore on the N95. I don't suppose the iphone's GPS will be any worse than Navicore. So, no problems switching to an iphone for those arguments 😉

Something else that impresses me about Apple's strategy is that when they release a new version of the OS (i.e. Versiion 2.0 coming out shortly) they release an update for the old handsets to bring them up to speed too.

This would be like Nokia releasing a FP2 update for the N95, which we all know they would never do.

Effectively the only difference between at old iPhone and the new one for iPhone users will be the data speeds and whether they have a physical GPS chipset. They will all benefit from the same OS features.