Nine months ago, Steve looked at the then-new Apple iPhone, pitched against the also-new Nokia N95 8GB flagship - with the release of the iPhone 3G, it's high time for a rematch. It's evident that the iPhone 3G has closed the gap and wins in some areas, but there are still holes in its functionality that you could drive a motorhome through, leading to another overall N95 8GB victory.
Read on in the full article.
Steve, the S60 browser does NOT support Java.
It does along with the iPhone support Javascript.
"in use, requires two hands to use most of the time, proving a little restrictive. "
yes a phone is a one handed device... 😊
and bluetooth what were they thinking...
and the nokia won't be a target for muggers anymore they will be to busy stealing itouches then returning them to the owner saying get the phone...
and the battery.... don't forget the time you don't have your phone...
but then it is all hype..
http://www.wolfcat.com.au/randomrants/2008/06/postid-105/
Though I'm very content with my N95 and would have approved this conclusion for the last iPhone this simply is not true. I would choose the 3G IPhone any day...
But hey, more than one year difference in release... not too bad a feat! (So Nokia, when is that yet to be released �berphone coming 😃)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iphone#iPhone_3G
have a look at the dot points for what is new..
3g, different battery, gps
thats it.
Everyone can go home now... nothing to see move on.
This review is hardly impartial when it's littered with 'awesome' etc. A side by side comparison shouldn't have any subjective adjectives.
Also,
"pouched/cased by necessity" is not true
"In use, requires two hands to use most of the time, proving a little restrictive."
Not true, most of the time it requires one hand only, unless one is doing text input, say for sms or email, and fast text input on N95 would require two hands also.
"Possible target for muggers?"
C'mon?!!
Note, iphone also supports TV-OUT with widescreen on/off and PAL/NTSC options
mention should also be made of the updating facility on both devices
Nokia release firmware upgrades, but never upgrade the core OS (ie feature pack 1 to feature pack 2 etc)
Apple on the other hand, with GPS and 3G data functions aside update all existing iPhones to version 2 of the iPhone OS (also iPod Touch for a small charge of $9.95)
And anyone who has either a current iPhone or iPod touch in the UK will know that you can use the BBC catch up service the BBC iPlayer, it works superbly.
I must admit somewhat sadly that I am starting to lean towards the iPhone after years of Symbian devices, mainly because the newer devices (N96 & N78) don't really offer anything new over the N95 8GB and N82. So as I have no intention of getting an N96 I may just keep my N82 and go for an iPhone 3G.
Steve. it is just not fair to compare input options of ANY nokia s60 3rd with Iphone. There is program - voicemode- superb speech recognition that i use for more then half a year. I simply forgot about using keys. The speed of inputing text is like on fly and i am not native English speaking person(they promise support for 5 more languages).
One killer app/capability for me on the N95 8GB is the Podcasting suite - downloading podcasts (e.g. over Wi-Fi) without any need to connect to a desktop. iPhone really needs to add that functionality (I'm sure it will come from a third party source soon enough).
The video side of the N95 8GB, something entirely lacking (officially) from the iPhone, is also very very good - perfectly suitable for impromptu events you want to capture.
The 5MP stills camera is quite another thing however. Whilst the hardware is probably up to great snaps, the photo taking software in the N95 8GB is so slow and unintuitive I hardly bother using it. A quick example: I can't even set my own preferred user setting to default. Every time I want to take a quick snap I have to wait for the camera to load (it's quite slow), then change all the settings, then take the picture. By which time the moment has invariably passed. Furthermore, there is such large amounts of jpeg compression applied, it may as well be a 2MP camera!
Despite the absolute powerhouse features of the N95 8GB I still can't help but feel it is an incredible chore to use. I mean just the way you write a text message prevents me from bothering half the time (I believe they need to at least get messaging on the N95 8GB up their with SE's implementation) - it is SOOOO long winded. Internet browsing is a similar case for me. The capability is there, just not the will to suffer using it. Sure it's great that it can do all these things - but all these things, even though not quite as good/powerful on the iPhone actually get used on that device because it's simple to do so.
www.benfrain.com
josep wrote:This review is hardly impartial when it's littered with 'awesome' etc. A side by side comparison shouldn't have any subjective adjectives.Also,
"pouched/cased by necessity" is not true"In use, requires two hands to use most of the time, proving a little restrictive."
Not true, most of the time it requires one hand only, unless one is doing text input, say for sms or email, and fast text input on N95 would require two hands also.
"Possible target for muggers?"
C'mon?!!Note, iphone also supports TV-OUT with widescreen on/off and PAL/NTSC options
Awesome Comparison Steve,
N95 is still streets ahead of the iphone.
Apple has always been just hype and hot air, extremely outrageous headlines like 'Apple killed Windows Mobile etc' not withstanding, this comparison really puts the iphone in its place. They still have a lot more work to do before they can compete with a seasoned mobile manufacturer like Nokia. :icon14:
iPhone uses the MBX lite and the N95 8gb wastes the MBX within the OMAP2420
It is true that neither device supports Java, only javascript - yes, BOTH support javascript.
Nokia devices support flash, true, but after waiting since last October for the release of FL3.0 I am sorely disappointed with the quality and usability of it. Going on the fact that I generally only need flash for Youtube I am here drawn more to The Iphone with its OFFICIAL high-quality Youtube client (and unofficial downloader) than the Symbian Flashlite capability which is SEVERELY handicapped - it doesn't work at all on most of my favourite flash sites.
Mobitubia (the Youtube client) is garish, clunky and unsatisfactory in my eyes.
COME BACK EMTUBE!!!!!
There is a huge amount of development for the Iphone and obvious support from Google and the BBC. I don't doubt that Channel 4 will release a 4od client soon and there's already a DEDICATED ORB client and a superbly slick Fring client - all of which sit happily in the background while you run other applications.
Coreplayer is in development for the Iphone meaning that soon Iphone users will be able to view almost any video format without conversion.
There is no reason why both the Iphone 3g and standard Iphone can't be updated to support any bluetooth profile (when they finally decide that this will be a worthwhile exercise!). Apple seem to like to hold things back until they've got them dusted.
Currently I'm happy with my N95 - it's still a damn good device; but perhaps therein lies the problem. It's now over a year since my N95-1 was released and there is nothing better out there yet: no Touchcreen, no higher-resolution screen, nothing to get excited about. Sure there was an 8gb version with extra RAM and a slightly bigger screen (with resultant lower ppi count)
but is this an exciting upgrade?
And what will the N96 offer us? QVGA screen (again) same camera, 16gb of storage (I don't even use all my 8gb) and a tv service which doesn't work in the Uk and will be of limited appeal beyond the novelty factor.
What does the Iphone 3g potentially offer me that I don't have?
A much more enjoyable browsing experience. So enjoyable in fact that the first time I tried the browser on a Touch was like the first day I got broadband.
The best mobile Email client ever. Period.
GPS with a responsive, accelerometer-driven screen (roll on Tomtom) and the best Googlemaps client available for mobiles.
A music player with no match, which actually plays album art.
Great battery life.
Support from the BBC and google for apps such as the Iplayer and Youtube . Popular sites will invariably release Iphone applications, negating the need for Flashlite for most people.
Orb client which is easier to use than a browser based app, and which allows audio and video streaming WHILST multitasking. Strange that the N95 is unable to offer this feature without pausing and re-buffering every time.
I wish Nokia would use a little more imagination. If the Iphone 3g comes out on T-Mobile in the next 6 months I have no doubt that I'll be getting one.
I'd like to see this revisited when verison 2.0 of the iPhone software is available please.
A lot of the article appears to be based on known hardware specs of iPhone 3g but current software specs.
iPhone 1 doesn't interest me but the new one does pending the improvements delivered in the new software release combined with 3G.
Most of Steve's negatives would appear to be software related. The whole one handed/two handed thing is a personal preferance too. I wouldn't see this as a pro for one and a con for the other.
It doesn't need to be in a pouch or case, check this video out:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=czCCavcnNd8
I have to say leoni1980, I think I'm with you. I'm finding myself more and more tempted by the new iPhone.
I make a lot of long journeys by train and sometimes at work I'm sat around for literally hours with nothing to do. I quite fancy the idea of being able to watch movies or episodes of my favorite shows while I'm doing it. It's just not practical on the N95. The ease of syncing this content with the iPhone is another big draw for me as a past iPod owner.
The browser too. The N95 one is good, but sometimes I think to myself I just can't be bothered starting it up and waiting ages for it to render a page, and then having to tedously scroll around to find the text I want. Then sometimes it doesn't resize it right and I have to scroll left and right. It's just a chore sometimes.
Then I look at all the apps which are either coming or are available 'unofficially' like the NES emulator. The port of Super Mario Bros 3 looks amazing! And a lot of the shortcomings of the device which people complain about have already been resolved in these apps, i.e. the lack of video recording. I'm sure bluetooth will only be a matter of time.
To my mind one of the big factors (that doesn't get mentioned much) is the different form factors (i.e. tablet style, versus slider phone). When it comes down to it a lot of people still want a phone first and other bits later. I think a lot of iPhone users would agree that the actual phone experience is not optimal. Given this (form factor especially) the iPhone has a more limited addressable market that Nseries I'd say.
These comparisons, by necessity, are from one view point. Each point can also be taken a different way. Camera - e.g. it's slow - yes it is, but then do you want pictures usable off the device? Depends on the person? The good enough debate goes both way too (amount of functions vs usability of functions).
Personally I think most people reading this would be better off with an N95 because it can do more (and they're capable of getting round the foibles). The iPhone might appeal more to the less technical... but of course the less technical are probably less phone obsessed and may be happier with a cut down S60 phone or feature phone.
Also an isolated comparison of the devices doesn't tell the whole story - Nokia offers other Nseries devices, other S60 devices and other phone devices. Just as Apple offers iPods. Saying one device is better than another is fine (and clearly healthy debate on this), but the conclusions you can draw are limited - a sense of overall perspective is required.
Ultimately I think the competition can only be good for consumers. Nokia has had its own way with Nseries for too long really!
And I guess the fact we're talking about it at all says a lot about Apple's marketing / ability to attract attention and conversation!
When it comes down to it a lot of people still want a phone first and other bits later. I think a lot of iPhone users would agree that the actual phone experience is not optimal. Given this (form factor especially) the iPhone has a more limited addressable market that Nseries I'd say.
I know people who won't buy the iPhone purely because it's too wide, but it has to be that wide for the browser to work effectively. Apple have to make a different kind of phone if they want to win these kinds of sceptics over.
The phone market is so large (1 billion devices a year, practically every kind of person uses mobiles, every age, every income, every nationality) that tastes and needs are incredibly diverse.
It would be commercial suicide for a large phone company to stick to just one form factor. A few years ago Nokia's market share suffered apparently because they were putting too much emphasis on monoblock/candybar phones, people wanted the choice of flip phones and sliders too. When Nokia added more of these form factor options to their lineup, their market share went back up again.
Even among expensive models, look at all the different shapes of phone which have been successful: N95, Blackberry, RAZR etc. They don't have anything in common because different people have different tastes, there's room for all these form factors.
If Apple is serious about market share in the phone world, they will have to get over this idea that there's just one way of doing things, because that will only get them one kind of customer.
Large clothing companies would never try to sell one kind of garment, large car makers would never try to sell one kind of car, and large phone manufacturers cannot make just one kind of phone. Trying to make a single perfect phone is pure folly, it might go down well with hardcore fans but not with the wider market.
I guess I ought to respond to some of the above comments!
"pouched" - yes, there's is no WAY I'd stick an iPhone in a general pocket.
"muggers" - you'll notice that I inlcluded this comment for both! 8-)
"OS upgrades" - Apple's updates have been no more dramatic than many Nokia firmware updates, I'd say the two devices were on a par here
"awesome" - I didn't use many superlatives, but the N95's camera vs the iPhone needs *some* kind of emphasis
"voice input"? - Seriously? You're kidding, right?
"5MP might as well be 2MP" - Sorry, you're just plain wrong here. I've done a few articles on this in my time....
"camera speed" - a fair comment, although the N95 devices have been getting faster and they're quite good enough for most people, most of the time
"Java" - by this I meant that you can install Java apps
"Mobitubia clunky" - NO - Mobitubia is superb in its latest version. And silky smooth
"Imagination" - seconded, Nokia do seem to need a little more in their designs of late
"NES emulator" - don't forget there are LOADS of emulators available for S60 3rd Edition
the S60 browser does NOT support Java? thats funny, I've been visiting all kinds of java based websites lastnight on my n95, I must have been dreaming?
I was actually more under the impression that iphone is the one that doesn't support java.
Steve. i am not kidding. Just go download and see by yourself. Sometimes it works better then famous Dragon software for PC. You can use it in ANY program of phone, but there is one small thing. The program once upon a time sends MMS to company abroad and it is costly. I just set up in mms settings so it will ask before sending anything for my approval. In fact i am surprised you din't know about that. Mike
Sorry, i have spoken about voicemode - speech recognition program. Mike
And the winner is... The Nokia N810!
It would be easy to always plug the N95 ahead of the iPhone. But the overall compelling experience is created by the design of the UI and software. And this is where things can and most probably will change.
The number of N95's sold will be huge...especially as you can get the phone free on contract. But I wonder how many people web browse etc.?
Not many! Where as I buy into reports of experiences from the iPhone world where the design of the device has encouraged people to use features they may not otherwise use.
And in the case of the Apps store, this is where Apple may well have the heads up.
Let's face it. Look at Symbian third party software downloads on Handango - given the millions of devices out there, its scary to see decent applications with 1000 downloads...and you know the conversion to "buy" will be so so so much smaller.
But I will bet my life on Apple reporting in a few months staggering downloads of third party software from their Apps store.
Because what Apple are good at doing is aiming at the masses and creating brand loyalty. The overall compelling experience of using an iPhone if you look at it from the standpoint of Mr. and Mrs. Average is much higher than an N95.
For us tech heads, there is nothing difficult about the N95. Where as my 65 year old father can open a web page on my iPhone but I would have zero chance of getting him to do the same on my N95.
And that's the difference.
Yes - there is a lot of iPhone hype. But with good reason. The 3G version is really the beginning. The first iteration was the testing ground. And they will only get better.
Compelling experience is mostly created by software. And the Apps store could be the one thing that truly puts Apple ahead of the rest. And with their new pricing point, they are much more likely to capture a greater share of the market.
In theory, I agree that the N95 is a better phone, though the iPhone wins in some key areas. As a US buyer, there is one wrinkle, though: the price comparison you list does not apply here. The N95-8GB is $750 (at Nokia's site, though currently out of stock), more than triple the iPhone's $199 up front cost, and then the data plans are more expensive for the N95. AT&T, the only national option for 3G on the N95, has a standard data plan for $35, but the iPhone plan is $30 (they can choose from the same voice plans).
Admittedly, you get an unlocked N95, and no contract commitment, but since AT&T is the only source for 3G, what difference does that really make? That being the case, over the course of two years, the Nokia costs $670 more. No matter how much I like the N95, that is a big plus in the other column.
Jack
The N95 may be the clear winner in terms of raw features but using a Symbian phone and using all its features requires a lot of patience. Who had the idea of configuring the items on the main screen as "Standby items" in some 2nd level sub menu? You may think that S60 Nokia phones have a UI but actually they don't. It is more a collection of random apps which aren't working well together. Its a collection of things which gets a geek and some experts excited but finding all the functions is a pain in the butt. I had my fair share by trying to configure WLAN on an E61 yesterday. Mind you that we're writing software for mobile phones incl. S60 so I have some idea about mobile phones.
Apple has a clear UI and it works well. That's their strong point. It may not have all the bells and whistles but at least you can find and use them.
Just my $0.02
Frank
The arguments are biased towards nokia as they would be but from the feedback a lot of nokia users on this site appear to now consider an iPhone . The argument based on lists of features and specs does not work anymore as people see the user experience that apple provide from the desktop to the phone, nokia are nowhere near with their media offerings. Now tempted to move from from s60 to iPhone after Reading all the press coverage over the last few days. Nothing stands out in the new nokia line up to tempt me back to s60.
Am I missing something? Do people really have a phone to enjoy using it? I am sure there are plenty of better things to be doing with our time than using the features of an OS? Jeez, what have we become when something like that is important to us?
"Ooh look my phone has slidey pictures on it when I poke it!"
Get some friends.
The N95 may be the clear winner in terms of raw features but using a Symbian phone and using all its features requires a lot of patience. Who had the idea of configuring the items on the main screen as "Standby items" in some 2nd level sub menu? You may think that S60 Nokia phones have a UI but actually they don't. It is more a collection of random apps which aren't working well together. Its a collection of things which gets a geek and some experts excited but finding all the functions is a pain in the butt. I had my fair share by trying to configure WLAN on an E61 yesterday. Mind you that we're writing software for mobile phones incl. S60 so I have some idea about mobile phones.Apple has a clear UI and it works well. That's their strong point. It may not have all the bells and whistles but at least you can find and use them.
Just my $0.02
Frank
I think you make a fair point about settings complexity, but then I'd also say at least I can configure this stuff / have decent personalisation etc. Complexity and hard to find stuff is partly a by product of more functionality surely? Though I think S60 could improve here.
S60 does have a UI and its efficient for a softkey driven UI (all the phone manufacturers use something like this in the basic design), but it does not have the slickness / coolness of touch. I actually think real world usability is much better on softkey phones than people realise - though that's another debate.
Plus bringing the E61 is a bit unfair - its 2 year old device after all.
The really interesting comparisons happen when we have Nokia touch devices to talk about.
To the last commenter - yeah there's some bias, but this is among the more informative and fact based discussion I've seen.
In theory, I agree that the N95 is a better phone, though the iPhone wins in some key areas. As a US buyer, there is one wrinkle, though: the price comparison you list does not apply here. The N95-8GB is $750 (at Nokia's site, though currently out of stock), more than triple the iPhone's $199 up front cost, and then the data plans are more expensive for the N95. AT&T, the only national option for 3G on the N95, has a standard data plan for $35, but the iPhone plan is $30 (they can choose from the same voice plans).Admittedly, you get an unlocked N95, and no contract commitment, but since AT&T is the only source for 3G, what difference does that really make? That being the case, over the course of two years, the Nokia costs $670 more. No matter how much I like the N95, that is a big plus in the other column.
Jack
That's exactly the position I'm in. Living in the US and given the price point, it seems that the N95, nor the N82, N81, or N78 can even compete with the iPhone 3G. And as much as I hate to think of myself as someone who would carry around an iPhone, at this point it would be pure stupidity on my part to pay more than half a grand more for the N95.
Unregistered wrote:the S60 browser does NOT support Java? thats funny, I've been visiting all kinds of java based websites lastnight on my n95, I must have been dreaming?I was actually more under the impression that iphone is the one that doesn't support java.
no you have been visiting javascript based sites not java.
Javascript and Java are not the same they are both programming languages but that is all they have in common.
Both the iPhone and N95 browsers support javascript neither support Java in the browser.