Brothers In Arms storms onto N-Gage, but how good is it?

One VERY telling thing: Gameloft's best-selling game by far on N-Gage is Asphalt 3, which doesn't have a time-limited demo. (And none of the other publishers on N-Gage have time-limited demos at all.)

The 20 second demo on Brothers In Arms almost seems to be Gameloft snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

A lot of people are very interested in this title, but they're being given a collective V-sign by Gameloft with a demo that ends before you've finished reading the introductory text.

I think it was Symbian Guru who said he wouldn't buy the game on principle because such a short demo was an insult, and it seems Ewan agrees (and so do I).

So, no 3D HW acceleration support? (At least, based on the texture quality, tehre isn't).

Any plan to add 3D HW acc. support later?

So, no 3D HW acceleration support? (At least, based on the texture quality, tehre isn't).

Any plan to add 3D HW acc. support later?

There's no 3D HW support on any N-Gage games at the moment.

From what developers have said, they are not allowed to use the 3D chip yet, presumably because not enough phones have them.

Nokia have said they intend to use 3D chips in the future, but I would guess they'll wait until they're more common, and until more people have N-Gage (which should happen once it's embedded in the firmware of new models).

I think this is the right decision right now as the N-Gage userbase is so small, the true embedded launch hasn't happened yet. Also, having to create two versions of games simultaneously would probably deter third party publishers.

Is 3DHW that useful on phone games though? The full version of System Rush Evolution has amazing 3D graphics without a 3D chip:

http://share.ovi.com/media/allaboutngage.public/allaboutngage.10005

...and most phones have such small screens that texture quality doesn't make much difference anyway.

Even without a chip the N-Gage platform currently has graphics approximately equivalent to a Nintendo DS, because the phones' processors are so much faster than the DS'. The DS is by far the most popular portable gaming device, so I'd say N-Gage graphics are good enough for the moment.

I'm sorry...�8?! For a mobile phone game?

I can get full PS titles for less than �5 on the PS3 Playstation network as well as new games made exclusivly like Super Stardust HD and I recently downloaded Mortal Kombat 2 for �3.99.

Gameloft had better rethink it's pricing. No offence guys, but you N-Gage "fans" will pay that, but the casual non techy phone owner will not.

I can get full PS titles for less than �5 on the PS3 Playstation network as well as new games made exclusivly like Super Stardust HD and I recently downloaded Mortal Kombat 2 for �3.99.

The PS titles are 10 or 15 year old re-releases running through emulators, and therefore cost zero to develop. They certainly didn't cost �3.99 when they were first released.

Also, it's not exactly a fair comparison, the PS3 isn't portable, you can't play Super Stardust on the bus. And the PS3 itself makes most of its profit from games that cost �40 each, these budget games are just a sideline. I don't think Sony would ever make a console that only sold games for �3.99.

When more phones have 3D acceleration? They seem to have removed the 3D accelerator from the upcoming phones!

The problem is that while it may be possible to get good results without the 3D accelerator, it is infinitely harder, requiring highly optimised engines that take time away from devloping the actual gameplay. With a 3D accelerator, you have far more freedom to add "wow" effects. You can also use an API that you may be familiar with - OpenGL ES, which is rather slow without an accelerator. This same API is used for the iPhone and will be used in Android, which would make software more portable and cheaper/more profitable for developers.

Nokia dropping the ball again, after shipping so many 3d-enabled handsets only to waste the opportunity 😞

With a 3D accelerator, you have far more freedom to add "wow" effects.

...none of which are visible on phones without the 3D hardware. To support the non-chip phones you would STILL have to do all the optimised engines etc.

3D chips could only save development time if all N-Gage phones used them, but they don't.

The only point of N-Gage is to be a gaming platform with a massive userbase by being embedded on a wide range of phones, from high end like the N96 to low end like the 5320.

As soon as you start restricting which models it can work on, N-Gage itself becomes pointless.

It's a fair comparison if the QUALITY of the game is comparable...and however you cut it, these mobile games are of no better quality than an old PS1 game. The fact you mention portability highlights my reluctance to pay �8. It's not really something I'd play at any other time than the 20 minute I'm traveling to work when there isn't a paper availiable. I see people playing their PSP's and DS's at home all the time. Why? The game quality is higher. and the form factor is more comfortable...and for me that's what it comes down to. I don't feel comfortable playing on my N95 for more than a few minutes at a time and if that's all I'm playing I ain't about to part with �8 for the privelage.

It's all well and good talking about the "zero developement cost" of old PS titles, but that falls down when you're talking about newer titles like Stardust...full 3D, in High Definition...for �5. Plus titles like Super Street Figther II HD remix take quite a lot of developement seeing as 15 year old sprites are all being redrawn for peoples 42" HD TV's.

A great review, as usual from Ewan. Indeed, I was the one who promptly uninstalled, purely out of principle.

I don't feel comfortable playing on my N95 for more than a few minutes at a time

...then why are you reading a review of a phone game?

That would be like me saying I can't stand using the PS3 joypad, and then demanding that PS3 games should be cheaper because of it.

It's a fair comparison if the QUALITY of the game is comparable...and however you cut it, these mobile games are of no better quality than an old PS1 game.

You weren't paying for a portable PS1 game though, you were only paying for the ability to play it at home.

Even if you considered this to be PS1 quality, N-Gage games are portable , you can carry them all with you in your pocket. The same can't be said for stuff you buy onto a home console.

The fact you mention portability highlights my reluctance to pay �8. It's not really something I'd play at any other time than the 20 minute I'm traveling to work when there isn't a paper availiable.

...and �8 is more or less what other smartphone games cost too, especially ones with 3D graphics. Maybe you just have a problem with the entire smartphone gaming industry?

I see people playing their PSP's and DS's at home all the time. Why? The game quality is higher.

The games for PSPs and DSes cost �30 each, of course their quality is higher.

Tzer2...you really are comparing apples and oranges. Are you saying you pay FOR the privelage to carry games around, no matter the actaul development cost and amount of code? Id have thought first and foremost that is where the cost of the game comes from.

Secondly an N-Gage game has no resell value...I know, because I part exchanged and sold a bunch of PSP games a few months ago...can I sell Brothers In Arms on once I'm done? Of course not. So that alone is why I wouldn't mind paying �25 for a game which you wold agree gives more hours of gameplay too at higher quality. I'm not comparing the games that way, I'm just saying that for the price I'd expect more...obviously not PSP or DS standard, but go check out the iPhones Monkeyball...�5.99.

Bosambo, I think you're judging the whole N-Gage platform by just one game.

There are games on N-Gage which are much better than this, for example Creatures Of The Deep has many many many many hours of gameplay, more than most DS or PSP games, and it has better graphics than most handheld console games too.

And N-Gage hasn't even launched properly, that won't happen until it's embedded in the firmware of phones. What we're going through now is a sort of extended preview for people who can be bothered to download the application manually.

Tzer2...you really are comparing apples and oranges. Are you saying you pay FOR the privelage to carry games around, no matter the actaul development cost and amount of code?

You mentioned the DS and PSP. They're full of re-releases from home consoles which are �30 purely for the privilege of carrying them around.

N-Gage is even better though, it lets you buy the games while you're actually on the move. You're on a bus, bored, fancy a game... you can download and buy one straight away.

Secondly an N-Gage game has no resell value...I know, because I part exchanged and sold a bunch of PSP games a few months ago...can I sell Brothers In Arms on once I'm done? Of course not.

Let's keep things in perspective, it's �8.

How many �8 games from other platforms have a resell value?

PSP games cost �30 each, so even if you sell them for �22 each you're still losing �8, and you've had to go to the trouble of posting it and paying the listings fees too if you do it through ebay.

So that alone is why I wouldn't mind paying �25 for a game which you wold agree gives more hours of gameplay too at higher quality.

That's great, go and buy a console, it'll fulfil your requirements much better than a mobile phone.

But a lot of people (myself included) don't want to spend �25 a game, especially if they're only going to play on the train.

There's also the convenience (you can buy a game straight onto the phone wherever you are and store all your games on one device) and the free online service (though admittedly BIA seems to have rather poor online features).

I'm not judging the whole platform...i paid for Brain Challenge. But even that is cheaper directly from Gameloft (I know a shorter version of Brothers in Arms is availiable for �3)

Brain Challenge was �6. �2 might seem like a small amount but for me it's a small difference between reasonable and a rip off. What are we paying the premium for? Multiplayer? Brain Challemge is actually more engaging and I'd get more play out of it for longer...BIA would be boring after completing it.

You didn't touch on the fact the iPhone will be getting what look like better games for much cheaper...I'm no iPhone fan, but I see the way the wind is blowing.

Tzer2 wrote:...none of which are visible on phones without the 3D hardware. To support the non-chip phones you would STILL have to do all the optimised engines etc.

3D chips could only save development time if all N-Gage phones used them, but they don't.

The only point of N-Gage is to be a gaming platform with a massive userbase by being embedded on a wide range of phones, from high end like the N96 to low end like the 5320.

As soon as you start restricting which models it can work on, N-Gage itself becomes pointless.

Not at all, the N-Gage browser could just show games which will run on your phone. No 3D accelerator? Doesn't appear. Or it could be used to prod people to update their handsets to the latest and greatest! Also, N-Gage isn't even available on most handsets yet, and most existing handset owners won't retrospectively install it, whatever you may believe. Nokia could have just supported the high-end handsets and all future handsets (that should have 3D acceleration).

The N96 _isn't_ really high end compared to the latest phones from other manufacturers. It's yet another phone with no 3D accelerator. If they don't produce the phones with the hardware, then the games to use it will never be produced. Why did they bother with the hardware in the N95? Totally wasted. Nokia could have saved the money and released the handset cheaper or with more profit.

I'd have loved to see Bounce Boing Voyage work with accelerometer and 3D accelerator like Super Monkey Ball, but with limited handsets with accelerometers and 3D, I suppose that's unlikely too.

Defend Nokia all you like - they have made another blunder that will really kick them in the teeth when compared to the latest mobile platforms.

that review was an interesting read, just downloaded the game and played it myself - very impressed, espically with frame-rate , i can remember call of duty on original n-gage - that was terribly slow - u had to put the phone in offline mode just to get a reasonable frame-rate. haha.

surprised that no-one has made a "see how far you can get in the first 20 seconds", furthest i got was where the team splits up into 2 teams of 3 LOL.

you guy's who are moaning about �8 are stupid the games are portable full of online feature's which are multiplayer or rankings or in some cases both ,
NGP's and various modes of single player ,
so most the TITLES are well worth the Cost.
There is 1 or 2 port's not worth the price but a majority are worth double the retail cost .
If you don't like, don't Buy !
why are you even bothering with a site/review N-gage related if it's so bad ?

There's only one person moaning about the price, I'm moaning that they don't use the capabilities of the handsets and aren't forward thinking 😊

Loved the Dire Straits references.

surprised that no-one has made a "see how far you can get in the first 20 seconds", furthest i got was where the team splits up into 2 teams of 3 LOL.

Haha. I got there too. In fact, doing the "how far can you get in 20 seconds" put me off buying the game even more than the insult of the 20 second preview. It didn't seem to matter whether I was cautious or just ran as fast as I could holding down shoot - which suggested to me the game might be a tad easy... Perhaps it isn't, but I couldn't tell that from ridiculously short demo.

On the price thing, �8 IS too much for a mobile game that by the looks of it will get played once all the way through and then uninstalled. In comparison, something like Creatures of the Deep, Pinball or NGage Golf are well worthy of �8 when you consider how much time you're likely to spend on them.

Oh, the Brothers in Arms references ... takes me back!

The thing is, though, buying any game is always going to take love over gold ...

BIA would be boring after completing it.

I believe most games fall into that category especially on the consoles. That is why online extras re available, it takes the games further

Think you guys should check up the release of Vivendi Games Crash Bandicoot Kart racing

http://www.vgmobile.com/games/crashnitro.html

This game is accelerated on all compatible phones (N95, N82 etc) whilst it will also work on the non accelerated ones (N73, N76, N81 etc). It runs just as fast - but the graphics on the accelerated is so much better than the non accelerated (has proper mipmapping, shading, bi/trilinear filtering etc).

This game is not NGAGE game. (so thankfully works on more platforms).

Where do you see a problem here compared to the current N-crap selection?

1) NGage games have been of average to poor quality (best being COTD maybe)
2) none (but System Rush - YES IT DOES HAVE IT) have 3D Acceleration
3) Gameloft crap has been nothing more than JAVA ports (converted to NGAGE format) with little optimisation and absolutely no difference in game play (why bother with NGAGE in the first place)?

If Vivendi and System Rush can do 3D accleration within their app by detecting the presence of it, then why cant every other NGAGE title? Its ridiculous..

GL's only covering up for a lack of effort and their committment to creating better NGAGE games really..

Only the indepdendent System Rush demo for the N95 (and a couple of other models), makes use of the 3D graphics accelleration.

The N-Gage version, System Rush Evolution, is not using 3D graphics accelleration. It is purely software based rendering like all other N-Gage games at the moment.

ccraig...not sure why you decided to stoop to childish name calling because your world view wasn't being adhered to. If you thing it's worth it, go for it. I'm going to do the samrt thing, look at the COMPETITION and weigh up my options.

A person who pays over the odds for something that isn't offering anything more compelling than the competition than "you can play me in random places and compare your score to some guy you don't know" to me is the one being stupid if thats what you want to call it. This game isn't multiplayer...some of the games so far that would have benefitted from multiplayer haven't had it (Poker for example) so don't give me that rubbish.

Tzer2 wrote:There's no 3D HW support on any N-Gage games at the moment.

From what developers have said, they are not allowed to use the 3D chip yet, presumably because not enough phones have them.

Nokia have said they intend to use 3D chips in the future, but I would guess they'll wait until they're more common, and until more people have N-Gage (which should happen once it's embedded in the firmware of new models).

it's like the chicken / egg -problem. Right now, very few games use the 3D acceleration; therefore, people not necessarily feel they need a model (N95, N82 - too bad the niche device N96 doesn't support it either) that does have 3D support. But, until there're so few (are there? The N95 may be the most successful high-end smartphone of Nokia) 3D hardware accelerated devices, few developers will want to code explicit support for it.

Tzer2 wrote:I think this is the right decision right now as the N-Gage userbase is so small, the true embedded launch hasn't happened yet. Also, having to create two versions of games simultaneously would probably deter third party publishers.

It's not about having to publish - it's just they see a point in publishing a 3D accelerated version as well. No obligations at all.

Tzer2 wrote:Is 3DHW that useful on phone games though? The full version of System Rush Evolution has amazing 3D graphics without a 3D chip:

http://share.ovi.com/media/allaboutngage.public/allaboutngage.10005

...and most phones have such small screens that texture quality doesn't make much difference anyway.

Even without a chip the N-Gage platform currently has graphics approximately equivalent to a Nintendo DS, because the phones' processors are so much faster than the DS'. The DS is by far the most popular portable gaming device, so I'd say N-Gage graphics are good enough for the moment.

I've played several 3D games w/o acceleration on my N95. See for example the System Rush (Evolution) comparison above. They were far inferior (much uglier-looking textures, fps problems etc) than natively 3D accelerated ones.

BTW, the case is the same on Windows Mobile. I also have a Dell Axim x51v (one of the very few models with a 3D accelerator) and games that do support it are a hundred times better-looking, faster etc. than games not taking advantage of the acceleration.

argh wrote:When more phones have 3D acceleration? They seem to have removed the 3D accelerator from the upcoming phones!

The problem is that while it may be possible to get good results without the 3D accelerator, it is infinitely harder, requiring highly optimised engines that take time away from devloping the actual gameplay. With a 3D accelerator, you have far more freedom to add "wow" effects. You can also use an API that you may be familiar with - OpenGL ES, which is rather slow without an accelerator. This same API is used for the iPhone and will be used in Android, which would make software more portable and cheaper/more profitable for developers.

Nokia dropping the ball again, after shipping so many 3d-enabled handsets only to waste the opportunity 😞

As the N96 is just a niche phone targeted at people living in DVB-H broadcast areas (and the N81 is just a low-cost multimedia/gaming phone w/o much success), I really hope Nokia does return ti coming up with all-in-one beauties like the N95. With 3D hardware support, of course - after all, it was a major selling point of the N95.

I didnt like any game from Gameloft for Ngage...even Asphalt (dont be angry now)..but try PGR.sis and u will see how the Nokia 3250 with 176x208 screen can give u great graphics..better than Asphalt in any other device..I dont wanna mention the Global Racer because it dont work with any phone...
in other word Ashpalt title is ranked 1st for many weeks because its Racing game and not because its GOOD Racing game.
Gameloft dont make us hate our Ngage platform when we play your games..

How about a comparison with the old non-N-Gage version? That is available for only €3 direct from Gameloft and it the only chance poor N73 owners like myself have of playing this title at the moment. Apart from the internet-based high score table (whoop-de-doo) has anything else new been added to make this a real N-Gage title or should everyone just buy the cheaper version instead?

Neil

Bosambo wrote:ccraig...not sure why you decided to stoop to childish name calling because your world view wasn't being adhered to. If you thing it's worth it, go for it. I'm going to do the samrt thing, look at the COMPETITION and weigh up my options.

A person who pays over the odds for something that isn't offering anything more compelling than the competition than "you can play me in random places and compare your score to some guy you don't know" to me is the one being stupid if thats what you want to call it. This game isn't multiplayer...some of the games so far that would have benefitted from multiplayer haven't had it (Poker for example) so don't give me that rubbish.

My view as been listened to ,i only posted once .
your the one repeating yourself several times in one thread to voice the same opinion over & over.
How have you reached the conclusion that these games are bad and not worth price?
when by the sound's of it you won't buy them b/c of cost.
so without full game you basing your opinion's on the 30 second trial's you've
Played which is hardly long enough to base an opinion on a loading screen.
no point replying to me either b/c you'll only post the same opinion's you've mentioned already and i don't want to argue with someone i don't know over their uneducated view's of the game's