When your application is blacklisted because it duplicates the functions on the phone, something has gone wrong, thinks Ewan Spence, who considers the issue of a single monolithic app store, and tells why he thinks the Symbian way is better.
Read on in the full article.
The Symbian Signed stuff is also capable to blacklist applications from the Symbian based phones so I don't quite understand the point.
Ive got to say I disagree - the fragmentation described has done so little to encourage users to install 3rd party apps on their smartphones. And is still a major hurdle for your average smartphone user.
It might look like theres lots of people using apps when you read this site and browse the forums, but in reality, only a small amount of smartphone users even know they can install apps.
Apples app store has had a huge number of people install apps, mainly because its all in one place.
You dont get people asking in the forums searching for where apps are, or if one exists which does xxxx.
Theres nothing to stop Nokia from having an app store as successful as Apple's, and still having third party sites that offer them (Samir being a good example).
I have to disagree too, the Symbian way is fine for 'Mobile Geeks' like me, but for the general public it stinks, I have at least four members of my immediate family that own N95's, out of those only one (the wife) has any 3rd party software installed, and thats because I put it on there.
The others don't have any mainly because they don't have time to trawl the net looking for it, and if they did wouldn't know how to get it too their phone and install it.
For this reason the single Appstore works, Apple's latest figures for their Appstore state that over 3000 applications are now available with over 100 million downloads since the store started in July.
I'd be surprised if the S60 figures are anywhere near to this,
The fact that just about any S60 application is hacked and pirated and available for free within hours of being released, adds even more weight to the argument for an Apple type store, at least their approach means that the developers of applications get fair payment for their work, personally I don't know why anyone bothers developing anything other than freeware for S60 such is the rampant piracy.
While Ewan makes a number of valid points about the One AppStore, let me (as a commercial developer) raise some points in its defence, and tell you why I think it is a good idea.
1) Apple isn't the only party that sets restrictions on the kind of apps it allows in its store. Other resellers have very similar terms and conditions, the wordings in the contracts being so similar that they appear to be drafted by the same person doing a copy&paste from a master document.
2) In the Symbian world, the manufacturer can in certain circumstances also prevent apps from being installed on a device. Symbian Signed and Manufacturer-approved capabilities come to mind.
3) Discovery is as much of a problem on a PC with a browser as it is on an on-device client. This more a matter of having a good category system and lots of ways to sort.
4) As far as I can see, Apple doesn't look at the triviality of the app. It has a policy, but the app being trivial is allowed by that policy.
5) The problem with Apple (or any other party) having lost of control is because of the fact that these phones are subsidized; "He who pays the piper gets to name the tune". The number of people paying for the entire device themselves is too low to make an impact. Compare this for instance to the games console market, where hardware is sold at a loss, and costs are recovered by letting developers pay huge licensing costs for developing for a console.
Now for the good things on the AppStore, in order of commercial importance.
A) Developers make money. The single most important issue for a commercial developer. According to a number of public statements made by developers they are making lots more money than for other platforms.
B) Fulfillment costs are very low and known. This makes it possible to let the market determine the price of an app, and it makes a mass-market approach possible. With the high fulfillment costs which is is the norm for selling Symbian software (and also WinMob, Palm etc) a commercial developer can only cater for niche markets.
C) Obvious route-to-market. Having the AppStore frontend on the device itself and making it very easy to buy and install an app, these things make shopping for iPhone apps an enjoyable experience. There's almost no hassle, no endless are-you-sure dialogs or other things that might put off the punter. Again, a mass-market approach.
So I do too know which model I prefer. AppStore is not perfect, but it is much better than what we have in the Symbian world right now.
Despite Apple's development kit. The iPhone platform is still a closed one. Wether you like it or not. How much control do you want other people to have over your phone? How much control do you want other people to have over your TV, vcr/vtr, blueray drive and your PC. which movies to play on which device? It's just a reversed form of DRM. Apple's building another cashcow.
Symbian offers choice. Choice to preselect for only signed applications of know sources or take any program. Nokia could even go for Nokia approved, Symbian signed (know origin), or unknown origin software. It's what N-gage is doing at the moment. They might be clearer to the customer about the threefold prong approach and the freedom of choice that is given. New users might go for Nokia only until more familiar with the platform's reliable 3rd party software distributors. Phones contain a lot of private information and have a pay-per-sms/call ability. As such each should be able to select his own level of desired security.
Like many readers of this site - I have to configure my families phones, computers and networks... and we all know how difficult that is!!!
Personally, in the real world of my family, I would like a very simple controlled experience. I have set-up Apple networks and Windows networks - one for my brother and one for my sister. All I can say is that the Apple method of limited hardware choices and software compared to the Windows world of loads of choices of hardware and software is that it was SO much easier to work in the Apple world.
I think as phones are basically computers that the simpler the better for most people. Sometimes more choice = less choice. In my practical experience if something doesn't work first time then people give up.
The reason that the new apple appstore has been so successful in a short time is because all the new iPhone owners are trying it out. It will settle down.
Unregistered wrote:Like many readers of this site - I have to configure my families phones, computers and networks... and we all know how difficult that is!!!
Only for some. The problem with windows is that there is no logic in the menu structure and their wizards are crap. Unix i.e. has well written manpages and logical way to do things and is easy to configure by hand to ones complete satisfaction. The ability to configure something completely to fit your (real, not fashion) needs should not be sacrificed for simplicity itself.
And this is actually not the issue. The issue is wether or not you get a choice!
It would make sense for Nokia to add an apps store to the Ovi line up and replace the current poor offering on all new phones. As usual apple has not invented something they have just made it more user friendly. Very few people with S60 phones I know even know that the download app exists let alone actually used it. It's a totally unusable bit of 80s software!
Apple has also made sure that the software in the Apps Store are affordable and yet the quality is high. More than 95% of the high quality software are below USD10.
People are happy to make purchases from the Apple's Apps Store because it is easy to browse and make a purchase. The products are also relatively cheap and of high quality.
Unregistered wrote:Apple has also made sure that the software in the Apps Store are affordable and yet the quality is high. More than 95% of the high quality software are below USD10.
you made some good points, but I think most bloggers on S60 are bias because they are power users. We all use 3rd party apps, and some of us know every possible tweak, hack, and app to apply because we know about places like this where we can find them.
I think for s60 to reach the masses (especially in the U.S., where power users are becoming more frequent but are not the majority) they need to make the experience as user friendly as possible. One way to do this, is to create a place where they can see all the interesting things that S60 phones can do.
The AppStore is a good idea - everything in one place.
However, there are significant problems of how iPod / Touch and appStore are managed:
* Apple dictate what content and applications are acceptable
* Apple can refuse applications on a whim ( http://www.macrumors.com/2008/09/13/apples-app-store-rejection-policies-raise-concerns/ ) - and once refused - that application cannot be offered / sold elsewhere ( except for jail breaking )
* SDK is very much crippled - no bluetooth API, no background applications etc etc.
* 3rd party Applications cannot compete with Apple applications* See link above
Apple denying some applications entry into the app store because they are deemed to dangerous a competition or because they would violate contract clauses with the carriers that are not public and thus traps that await the unsuspecting programmer - that's an evil.
The sorry mess of the Symbian application discovery and vending landscape that is known well enough to the readers of this forum - that's another evil.
Now can a have a third way please? Not at the moment, as it looks. I *have* to decide - app store guarded by a just-ok dictator or a sorry mess of a market. So which do I take, as an application developper?
Hands down Apple's app store, of course. For me, that's clearly the lesser of the two evils, at least so far, at the moment.
Many people seem to have problems with the very concept of "the lesser of two evils" - probably because they cannot help themselves and continue to dream about a third, better alternative, that might appear like a miracle - where there really is none.
So the lesser of the two evils is it, then - Apple's app store.
The 3rd way is coming. Its called Android.
How will Android be any different? Its either going to be fragmented, or in one place and 'managed'.
I must admit that I had not heard about apple blackballing a Podcast application (though I'm not surprised), but for me, this is one area where my iPod Touch is deficient when compared to my E90. I now use my E90 with Nokia's Podcasting app for all my podcasts, and hardly ever put podcasts onto my iPod. There are 3 main reasons for this:
1. my E90 will automatically download new podcasts when connected to my home WiFi network;
2. I don't need to use my laptop (and iTunes) to get podcasts into my device of choice;
3. I can listen to podcasts (and music obviously!) using Bluetooth headphones, something my iPod is not capable of.
So apple, in their infinite wisdom, have stifled an application which would be truly useful and would make great use of the iPhone's/iPod's WiFi capability, simply because it duplicates (or rather, supercedes) a function provided by iTunes; this is typical of the fascist dictator that is Mr. Jobs...
I love my iPod Touch, but would never consider buying the not-so smart smartphone...
To the people who've missed the point by missing a keyword. The title conveys 'SINGLE' app store is a bad idea. We need to have alternates like in the symbian world.
With just one app store owned by the manufacturer, things can go wrong. Like today its a podcasting app, maybe tomorrow they'll block a browser simply because Safari (ahem) is the best browser in the world. (Steve Jobs' fantasy world maybe).
For the true spirit of competition to unleash, we need multiple app stores, exactly the way symbian has. 😊
Completely disagreeing with the author which sounds like a typical nokia fanboy article... ! Having n95 for last 8 months I simple regret the choice I made to buy this n95 as the applications are so much cluttered and mess that I would anyday prefer App Store from Apple that provides me a single point of access....
Apple makes things simple, brilliant and stuff that JUST works..... The App store provides a single point of visibility for developers for applications, reduces the rampant piracy that is prevalent with Nokia applications and it provides way more confidence to investors than the cluttered mess symbian application distribution system has...!
Hardeep1singh wrote:
For the true spirit of competition to unleash, we need multiple app stores, exactly the way symbian has. 😊
But its obvious that this method simply doesnt work, thats the argument.
Handango is probably the best bet for software (Nokia download and the online version of it has so little software it should not even be counted) for S60, but even then lots is missing.
And it seems rather high priced to me.
Plus, who actually knows about places like Handango? Your average smartphone user doesn't.
I agree that restricting it to a single source only would not be much better.
But perhaps thats why its so fragmented? Because you can pimp your application on your own website only, many people do.
Nokia should at least try to make it as attractive for developers have it with Apple. By creating an app store as good as Apples offering, they are at least giving developers a choice.
Personally, I think this whole discussion is moot until Nokia sort it out, until then the Apple app store is going to win hands down.
I don't agree that the point is moot. While I agree that Nokia's Download! store is a bit rubbish, the problem with the iTunes App Store is a fundamental one; do you want the manufacturer of your device to have total control over what applications you can install on your phone? If you don't mind, then great, the App Store is probably suitable for you. If you disagree with such a policy, and I most certainly do, then an iPhone is definitely not a good choice...
Unregistered wrote:I don't agree that the point is moot. While I agree that Nokia's Download! store is a bit rubbish, the problem with the iTunes App Store is a fundamental one; do you want the manufacturer of your device to have total control over what applications you can install on your phone? If you don't mind, then great, the App Store is probably suitable for you. If you disagree with such a policy, and I most certainly do, then an iPhone is definitely not a good choice...
Well, lets not forget about 'jailbreaking'... A guide on how to jailbreak your iPhone is available on basically any iPhone/iPod related site out there. It's not a very difficult procedure either. And once you're done you automatically get TWO alternatives to AppStore - Cydia and Installer - which works in the same manner as AppStore, except the apps are not bound by being approved by Apple (you can install and customise practically everything on the phone once it's been 'jailbroken'😉. And you still get to use AppStore, as the non-Apple approved apps don't conflict with the ones installed through AppStore. So, basically, you can have your cake and eat it too. :tongue:
OK, jailbreaking might be an option, but that's hardly the most obvious route to follow, no matter how easy it might be to do. Many users are going to be very wary of bricking their iPhone, and who can blame them.
Yeah, well, even if you 'brick' your phone you can still restore it in iTunes... I SSH'ed into my iPhone's file system and messed with some files I shouldn't have - result: it kept going in a boot-loop. But still, iTunes recognised it and the restore option fixed everything.
I do off course realise that most people aint gonna jailbreak their iPhone, but still, in a forum like this, it's worth mentioning. 😊
The success of the Apple store is genuine, significant and speaks for itself.
"I think most bloggers on S60 are bias because they are power users"
No, most bloggers on S60 are bias because they get sent free phones by Nokia. And many get to go to Nokia PR events for S60 bloggers.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/07/23/nokia_community_paid_for/
Ah what a suprise, its from Nokia hater Andrew Orlowski.
Besides that, he is wrong, by design or ignorance. While nokia hand out handsets for some reviewers, they do not get to keep them. They have to be returned.
Tbh, anything Nokia by Andrew Orlowski I always ignore as a rule. Not because Im a nokia fanboy either, as I completely agree - and have been saying for a while - that Apples appstore is vastly superior and Nokias 'download' isnt even worthy of mentioning.
Power users generally like features - and thats why they so often prefer S60.
bartmanekul wrote:anything Nokia by Andrew Orlowski I always ignore as a rule.
So you didn't know Nokia Comes With Music has unlimited liability? Maybe you should start reading them, they are well thought out and written by a strong Nokia supporter - not a fanboy. When you read something by someone you don't agree with... you may learn something!
Your personal attack makes you look ignorant and childish.
bartmanekul wrote:While nokia hand out handsets for some reviewers, they do not get to keep them
The post didn't say anything about :keeping: them - just that Nokia sends lots of phones to S60 bloggers. That is a fact.
Who looks stupid now?
Take a chill pill and try and calm down.
That may be, but about the handsets anything withing recent months (years?) have been oddly venomous and seemingly biased.
Its not a personal attack, its simply my opinion. A personal attack would be what you did, inferring Im childish and ignorant.
Would you read something from someone you consider biased?
No, I thought not.
When its stated that people get free phones, the impression is given they get to keep them, which as I pointed out, is not the case.
So perhaps next time you could make sure your intial post is not misleading?
Also, as you post here often, it would be helpful to others if you signed up, or at least used a name. People otherwise have no idea that the last 3 posts from unregistered are all from you.