Now The Music Has Stopped, Does Nokia Have A Seat in America?

Let me guess - S60 is not "simple enough" for Americans?

Nokia should at least consider offering Android as an alternative OS in the US market. RIM/Blackberry currently owns the enterprise segment, but the iPhone and Android platforms are shaping up to be the main contenders for the consumer battle (Palm's WebOS is still TBD).

In 2009, HTC, Samsung, LG, Sony Ericsson, Motorola, Asus, Lenovo, Huawei, Garmin, Kogan, Openmoko and others have announced plans to deliver Android devices. Netbooks/MIDs & home appliances may also be seen supporting Android in 2009. This flood of Android devices in to the US market is likely to attract a HUGE developer community.

Why not Nokia devices also?

Android is open source, so it can be tailored for a Nokia look-and-feel. Supporting Android would also allow Nokia to offer Ovi services to ALL Android devices...not just Nokia Symbian devices. Perhaps Android presents an opportunity, rather than a threat.

Why offer android too?

I am still convinced that sorting out a decent rival to appstore would be the answer to a multitude of problems for symbian.

Better sales would lead to more developers, more programs, more choice, and so on.

Customers and networks alike would surely be more receptive to Nokia devices then.

It's not that S60 isn't simple enough for Americans, it's that in some aspects S60 is too simple for Americans. Any smartphone OS that takes off in the USA is going to be driven from businesses into the consumer market, just like the PC was. S60 is just not enterprise ready, and probably never will be.

Why Nokia won't offer Android device is very easy to explain: Nokia is trying to get into the service business, Android forces the user to use Google services.

I don't agree with Scoble's premise to his whole "analysis" - no carrier in the US is quite as *married* to a single platform/manufacturer as he tries to make it sound. And when he says "I�ve seen the new Nokia OS, just a month ago.", I'm really not quite sure what he's trying to say. It's still Symbian, it's still S60 - there's nothing fundamentally new about it other than a new home screen and a few tweaks here and there.

If he means that S60 needs an overhaul, I basically agree. But despite all those new smartphone wunderkinds, I think S60 works well - if Nokia/SymbianFoundation:

-updates the UI looks a bit (which I guess will come with Symbian 9.5 and ScreenPlay)

-overhauls some basic issues (better text entry a la SE, threaded SMS finally part of the default system, more flexible and functional homescreen as default, HTML emails, better Ovi and other services integration with syncing of stuff, small details like graphical smilies and a couple of other things that really should be do-able quite easily)

-adds a few shiny new core applications like a better browser (maybe by completely teaming up with Mozilla?), "cooler" media center app (shiny stuff always impresses people, after all) and a replacement of the default mail app with a merged Messaging/MfE/Notes app

-ADD A PROPER APP STORE!

the public impression of S60 might change quite a bit, without huge changes or massive effort.

And if they finally consolidate their services to a coherent whole, they're actually pretty well positioned imho.

And in any case: Nokia is at least trying to get more phones to the US. AT&T seems to finally pick up the E71, and I wouldn't be surprised if some carrier takes up the recently announced E63 NAM as well. As low-cost consumer QWERTY device, I think it might do very well in the US market.

If you were to stand outside the Nokia store on Michigan Avenue here in Chicago and ask people what an unlocked mobile device is, they would have no idea what you are talking about! To begin with, nobody uses "mobile" here, it is still "cell" or "wireless" and unlocked is, pardon the pun, foreign as they don't know that what they have in their pocket will only work with their provider.

So not only is there a campaign needed to sell the US on Nokia, but on the concept of unlocked devices as well. Other than Nokia, the options for unlocked devices in the US has been slim. Palm offered the Treo 680, which it no longer does, plus just recently an unlocked Centro.

Most US consumers are just now catching onto the thing in their pocket being more than a phone. Everyone who has an iPhone either blindly loves it or has a love/hate relationship, but is drinking the Jobs' Kool-Aid and will change to AT&T. Everybody else shops first by provider, and that is where all the marketing goes. Most providers offer about a half-dozen "free" phones with a 2-year contract, and people will choose one of them, most likely the one with the coolest colors. T-Mobile will not argue with you when you say you want just a SIM for the contract, and then you'll end up taking a free phone for a backup, as I have.

For people like myself, the very small minority, it's sad. For the majority, they just don't know. Until they travel to Europe and find out their phone won't work, or it will cost a pile of money for it to do so.

So not only does Nokia or whoever need to sell the sizzle, but the concept of eating steak as well!

mp/m

Mike Maddaloni
thehotiron.com

Totally agree with chlettn.

Other points;

Nokia SHOULD NOT go Android. Big mistake. I love Android, it's design and it's potential, but S60 is equally as good in general (and better in some things) and is where Nokia have real power and experience. Nokia are not one of these cheap Asian chase-the-pennies manufacturers like HTC et al. S60 is not a 2nd best, it is a real market leading power house, technically and with installed base.

Nokia need to spruce up S60 a bit, fix the obvious problems as chlettn pointed out, and sort out their crap marketing strategy in the US.

They also MAJORLY need to sort out the whole development issue - i.e. us developers need to be able to program S60 through an API and language that is as easy to use and understand as iPhone's AND an SDK, emulators, etc. that are as wonderful and integrated as iPhone's. There is NO reason Nokia cannot radically improve developer tools.

They also REALLY need to sort out an appstore. Download! is a travesty, everyone agrees this. Interestingly though, it provides a solid basis for an appstore and would not take that much to overhaul the UI etc. to make it as good as iPhone's. And again more PR to end users. And stop hiding it in some irrelevant sub menu.

Comment above re: S60 in the enterprise is nonsense. This is a Microsoft-worldview. What Nokia are doing pushing S60 into midrange phones and hiding the fact they are actually smartphones is exactly right. Ordinary users don't want to be geeks. Give them power that they get without them specifically seeking "a smartphone" when they go in the shop. Educate them about the tasks they can now achieve better etc because they have S60 (without mentioning S60 - too geeky). Nokia policy is right. The enterprise is already taking care of itself well with regard to Nokia infiltration.

Alex
phonething.com (software dev, industry consultant).

Sorry, ajck, but you're wrong. The enterprise thing is very much a fact.

I see ordinary people walking down the streets with blackberries now. I see blackberry commercials on TV touting the 'multimedia/facebook/whateveryoulike' capabilities of the device. I see G1 commercials which show how easy it is to shop and navigate with the phone.

Americans *want* and *need* to be connected to services like facebook and shopping sites. Nokia is just doing a poor job of it, and trying to shove Ovi where it doesn't belong.

To the above poster, care to explain the iPhone and Android then? Neither have any real enterprise penetration and yet the iPhone outsells all of the Windows Mobile devices put together in the US.

You don't need to win over enterprise in order to be successful in the consumer space. That's a lesson that Microsoft still hasn't learnt after all these years of Windows Mobile playing second fiddle to its competitors.

To the above: I suggest spending some time in the business world in the US. iPhones are about as common as grass in a field. Everyone's boss wants one, and everyone's boss is making the poor IT guy hook it up to Exchange.

"Let me guess - S60 is not "simple enough" for Americans?"

S60 is now the ugliest and the most complicated UI of them all. The Blackberry is nasty but it does email well. Android, WebOS, OS X iPhone are all sexier and easier to use.

Nokia looks like yesterday's company.

I 'm with you on this one Ewan, as you said in the podcast, I'd be surprised if the Pre actually makes it onto the shelves.

If the Pre was being launched now, or preferably in the middle of last year, I would have given Palm a 50/50 chance of making it good in the US market. But now... it's too late... A new iPhone and a handful of powerful Android phones from various manufacturers, will make the Pre look underpowered and under supported.

In my opinion there is only one way that Nokia can break into the US market;

Introducing the new Nokia 'Marvin', and yes, he is a tad paranoid! ^_^ "The first 5 billion years were the worst..."

Unregistered wrote:To the above: I suggest spending some time in the business world in the US. iPhones are about as common as grass in a field. Everyone's boss wants one, and everyone's boss is making the poor IT guy hook it up to Exchange.

You said - everyone's boss wants one!

the fact that they don't tie in to corporate systems or offer much in the way of business functionality hasn't stopped it's popularity.

iphones are popular despite the lack of enterprise connectivitiy and corporate use.
Blackberries were forced on the corporate world because they worked so well with enterprises.

Nokia are somewhere in between being neither as integrated as RIM or as consumer oriented (with the simple GUI etc) as Apple!

Well I disagree about Ewans first point. Nokia never really received any hype from US ,and it hasn't stopped them so far. The point might be valid for the Anglo-Saxon world, but pretty marginal for rest of the planet. Of course there is the tiny&geeky nerd squad following tech-blogs written in english, but they really aren't importnt for the huge mainstream-consumer or corporate market.

The second point I agree with. Nokia allready lost the North American developpers. How much that will hurt them remains to be seen. Of course there are plenty of developpers outside NA, altough how much that will help Nokia remians to be seen also.

Uh, unless I'm mistaken, the iPhone does tie into Exchange.

Hi folks,

It seems it's escaped lots of people's attention that AT&T wants a single smartphone platform on their network and it might be Symbian. Still, they're in a big problem at the moment ...

tote wrote:Hi folks,

It seems it's escaped lots of people's attention that AT&T wants a single smartphone platform on their network and it might be Symbian. Still, they're in a big problem at the moment ...

And add to that the leaked Nokia e71 manual for AT&T:

http://www.intomobile.com/2009/01/11/nokia-e71-coming-to-at-users-manual-prooves-it-again.html

I've been resisting posting on this, but I can't take it any more.

I do not buy the idea of a carrier being married to a particular platform / device. Any sane carrier should have some diversity in their portfolio. The fact is no platform currently encompasses all market options (S60 is closest though). Moreover it only takes one hero product for carriers to switch as, at the moment, switching costs are out weighed by the cool factor. Most importantly the discussion here is focused on the high end of the market - the bigger part of the market is ignored - mid tier devices... and low-end.. though in the next few years they're not going to be served by open platforms.

While entry to any market is more than just a product (Nokia has the products, it just hasn't been able to partner with a carrier) I do think any company, with the right device, can gain entry. I think realistically you probably need to be of a decent size to be able to get the right product. Sustaining it is harder, especially if you look at say the decade time scale. e.g. what was the top US device just 3 years ago...

A good example of a decent product that could do well in the US in the E63. This SIM-free costs about the same as similar QWERTY devices which are subsided on a 2 year contract. Even in the US this could realistically be given away for $50 on a 2 year contract. Same goes for a device like the 5800.

On the other hand I probably would agree that has problems in the touch / tablet style device. I've said before I feel the iPhone and G1 owe more to a PDA ancestry than a phone. Nokia's product are the other way round.... what is relatively unremarked upon is the fact that Nokia totally dominates the smartphone space in the T9 keypad space (be it slider or mono-block)... While there are 7+ companies who could reasonable claim to be serious players in the QWERTY keyboard space there's really only Nokia and Samsung in the smartphone in a traditional phone form factor space... (the form factor beloved by everyone accept the US).

I suspect some of the reason Nokia hasn't been able to successfully partner with carriers in the US is because its a meeting of two immovable objects. Operators can get their way with smaller manufacturers, but this is going to be harder with a company as dominant as Nokia. i.e. from a business sense perhaps it is viewed as better to partner with a mouse you can dominate, than an elephant?

Android is an interesting platform, but as other have commented there's no reason for Nokia to switch. Android has a lot of hardware partners, but then so has Windows Mobile and they're looking to streamline things. Lots of small partners may well end up being Android's fragmentation nightmare... I still wonder whether Google is really in it for the long haul too.

Incidentally I do think RIM and Windows Mobile have the US enterprise market sown up... but Eseries is actually doing OK. I think it did about 50% of the global sales of RIM in the last quarter for example.

Given the current strategy, I can't see Nokia/Symbian making big gains in 2009. However, a real possibility is that Nokia acquires Palm or another player to buy its way into the US market.

90% of people just want a phone, something to call and text on. Nokia is damn good at that. Personally I don't give a damn what OS is on my phone as long as it does what I want. Which isn't much because it's a pain to do stuff on such a tiny thing, and it's a pain to carry around a large device (large meaning iPhone). Anyway, Smartphones are a sideline for Nokia, they are the core business for RIM.

im a nokia fan, have had many nokia phones and still use a couple (N95/E71) but i also use an iphone.

problems with current high end Nokia smart phones;

1. ugly (N95/N85/N96 relatively speaking) i do think the E71 design is a work of art though
2. fat - N95/N96/N97 to large for high numbers of the population
3. poor battery life on high end media devices n96, n95 (improving but still poor)
4. screen resolution and size poor/outdated - N95/N96
5. UI looks old
6. poor firmware on 1st gen releases (puts a lot of people off)
7. no app store
8. no serious / large developers - lots of small companies but no big names
9. two steps forward and one step back (camera/Flash/LED etc)

I think Nokia need to pay more attention to the design of both hardware and software - phones have become fashion items, old school geeks may be ok with chubby and clunky but new wave geeks want sleekness and style.

I know the above may make it appear as if i am not a fan of Nokia but that isnt the case - i do think they innovate, they tend to be ahead of the pack in a lot of areas but they need more attention to others.

As an aside - I keep reading that Nokia is the biggest smartphone seller in the world, this in turn creates an impression that Nokia is successful at selling smartphones - but this is simply not the case.

While technically they sell more smartphones than anyone else - a huge amount of people that buy them dont even know what they have. They bought a Nokia because it was relatively cheap and has a few features (such as music playback) that they use. Nokia dont "sell" smartphones they just sell phones of which some are very smart.

To "chlettn" - "Nokia is trying to get into the service business, Android forces the user to use Google services."

Android is open source. There is nothing stopping Nokia from replacing all Google services with Ovi services, and shipping that on Nokia phones. Of course, that won't stop people from installing Google services from the app store, but if Nokia offers good services, why would they want to?

In the end, probably all companies (Google,Yahoo,Microsoft,Nokia,Apple,RIM,...) will offer their services in all app stores (unless, of course, the app stores "reject" competitive applications...which Apple has been known to do). So, as an example, if I have a Nokia device, I should be able to get music from iTunes or Amazon or Ovi or wherever.

I do understand that Nokia wants to sell phones AND services. However, does this not include:

1. Nokia device + Nokia services (device & service)
2. Nokia device + Non-Nokia services (device only)
3. Non-Nokia device + Nokia services (service only)

FYI, I wrote the previous "Why not Android" comment. It was just food for thought.

Because they sure don't act like it. Where's our 5800??

here's another point of view: what if it is the us that is going to loose in the smartphone war? even if the us had proportionally substantial developer base, it still lack sorely behind if the whole developers of the rest of the world are on different bandwagon.

it's not that s60 is not ready for this or that; in fact s60 is now ready to conquer whole new price points the competitors can only dream about. my bold prediction is that s60 devices will reach (or get very very close) to $99/�99 price point this year. and i'm talking about prices of unlocked devices. and they only get cheaper.

the us might well lock itself (again) outside of the global mobile phone markets. it's nice in the short run, but in the long run it's unsustainable. just look at the carriers struggling the move to gsm path from their cdma networks.

one more point: iphone and android haven't really gained huge success outside the us.

Worrying about the US mobile market, and indeed the European market, is a red herring. By far the biggest share of sales and growth come from developing countries, largely from Asia.

Nokia's biggest customers by both volume and value are China and India, not Britain and America, yet the US and UK markets get almost all the attention on english-language mobile sites with virtually no attention paid to anything east of Moscow.

India and China have a combined population of about 2.5 billion people. North America and Europe have a combined population of about 1 billion. And the rest of the world is about 3 billion.

There was a news item the other day about a Chinese phone network which had 300 million customers... that's roughly the entire population of the United States on one network alone.

If phone companies and phone standards operate on a global scale, we've got to judge their success on a global scale, and not obsess about what the english-speaking world does.

I've always believed that Nokia doesn't care about the US market, and for good reason. Its too immature as a "smart phone" market. There is no real national network of reliable 3G coverage. Sure there are pockets of it in various cities and states, but nothing consistent over the whole country. Probably the result of the US using other frequencies for their *cough* Networks. Nokia can continue to sell dumb (non-3G) phones to this market quite happily.
Now as far as Japan is concerned, Nokia has no presence in that market either for the opposite and the same reason. Japan also has different standards for their 3G Networks and yes they are REAL networks. you have to be in an extremely remote area of Japan not to find 3G coverage (yes they exist). Japan has easily the most sophisticated phone market in the world, though Korea is catching up. The market is pretty much owned by local manufacturers who don't really offer true "smart phones" at least not unlocked ones. Their features and quality are really stunning. The iPhone is NOT that popular as a phone in Japan. Its used more as a fashion device than a true communications tool.
So Nokia says no to USA and no to Japan where are they? Well China and the rest of Asia, Europe. Lets face it thats the market you're going to sell most phones into, of any type. 😊

You know I'm a Nokia fangirl, but Scoble's right. As I said in my recent podcast with Matt Bennett, Nokia should just buy Palm and use WebOS for the N97, or use Android: http://tnkgrl.wordpress.com/2009/01/11/podcast-talking-with-matt-4/

Unregistered wrote:To "chlettn" - "Nokia is trying to get into the service business, Android forces the user to use Google services."

Android is open source. There is nothing stopping Nokia from replacing all Google services with Ovi services, and shipping that on Nokia phones. Of course, that won't stop people from installing Google services from the app store, but if Nokia offers good services, why would they want to?

I wonder how Google would react in this case - seeing the biggest handset manufacturer choose Android, rip out all the parts that bring them money, and distribute it with their stuff instead...I somehow doubt that they would just sit there and do nothing in that case, but since I'm not an open source licensing expert I can only guess.

Anyway, Nokia wouldn't really gain anything from that imho - it's easier for them to just use their own Maemo if they ever want to completely abandon Symbian.

Rafe wrote:
I do not buy the idea of a carrier being married to a particular platform / device.

Well, AT&T sells iPhone besides that it may sell Symbian phones, too, in the future. One major difference between the two, though: is iPhone customized to AT&T? Is there such as carrier-branded iPhone? I don't know, I just doubt it. Anyway, customer branding does exist in Symbian world. I'm not sure how much it counts for a carrier, but it may be a good reason for choosing another smartphone OS vendor ...