Whatley Wednesday - Should Gravity come down?

Personally, I disagree, and think the price is a fair price for Gravity. Its not your run of the mill applications knocked up over a weekend, it has had extensive work put into it, and Beta testers, myself included have worked very hard in getting Gravity ready for the release date. Jan Ole Suhr, the sole developer of Gravity is a genius, and what he has created, is much more that a single application for Twitter. It has mutiple purposes, which integrate several accounts, from Twitter, Laconica, and more recently the ability to add Facebook status updates. On top of this, there is an extensive search function where you can have several open searches, saved to your preferences. The list goes on, and best of it all, is Gravity is still improving, with new additional tweeks, and features being added following requests, and suggestions etc.

As said, this is my own personal opinion, and James is entitled to his.😊

An equivalent iPhone application, Twitterific Premium, sells for $9.99 US. With that in mind, Gravity's price doesn't seem out of line.

http://blog.iphoneguide.com/2009/02/app-of-the-week-paid-twitterif.html

Agreed, Micky, as a one-time developer myself, I think Gravity's price is very fair. It's the silly prices in the out-of-control iPhone App Store which are out of whack, IMHO.

On phones, pricing is often a question of hiding costs instead of lowering them. For example, someone who pays 10p for a text message will happily send 70 messages for a total cost of �7, but they would probably refuse if they had to pay up front for a �7 licence to send 70 messages: same price for the same product, but somehow phone bill micropayments are more psychologically acceptable.

The biggest hidden cost of all is in the contract phone, where the hardware is bought on credit and paid for in installments. There are serious journalists who use the first installment as if it was the cost of the phone, such as the supposed "$199" iPhone 3G which actually cost closer to $600, or even "free" phones which common sense should say aren't free at all (I'm sure we'll see the Nokia 5800 touted as "free" sooner or later).

Maybe applications should take a leaf out of the network operators' book: have a tiny micropayment charge for each use after the trial period, possibly with the charging dropped after a limit is reached (when the app has been fully paid for). That would not only allow you to try out full versions of apps very easily, it would also mean that you would by definition only pay for apps that you actually use in the long term. If you use a particular app twice as much as another, you would pay twice as much for it.

Payment for use would therefore encourage developers to make apps people want to use as much as possible, and simultaneously punish developers who con people into buying apps they don't use.

Under such a system, game developers for example would HAVE to create long-term gameplay, because otherwise they won't get their money from the consumer

"An equivalent iPhone application, Twitterific Premium, sells for $9.99 US. With that in mind,
Gravity's price doesn't seem out of line."

The best iphone twitter app is tweetie, that costs much less

and make the price come down!

I'm with James here. Comparable apps for other platforms are much more competitively priced. Gravity is a great app and definitely the best dedicated twitter client for s60 but it's not *that* much better than Dabr which is absolutely free. Personally i prefer Dabr's powerful simplicity too.

I had 8 spare euros and have wanted to have an app like this for quite some time, so I was willing to pay it without even trying it (a video was enough to convince me). It is the slickest S60 app I have seen so far. Quite frankly, it is a beautiful piece of programming. Congrats, Jan Ole and Mobileways.

That is not the issue, though, of course. Mobileways invests x amount of hours/euros into building this app and needs to recoup that money. The fact of the matter is that in the end is down to the elasticity of price. If at 8 euros they can sell 10.000 copies, they have a turnover of 80.000 euros. If, in turn, at 2,50 euros they sell 100.000 copies they obtain a revenue of 250.000 euros.

Without the Ovi Store, I think there is currently no appropriate infrastructure to sell high volumes (such as 100.000) - think for a moment how easy it is to buy an app on the iPhone and how relatively difficult it is to purchase Gravity. For that reason, I think the price is probably most appropriate for Mobileways to recoup an investment.

Bheetebrij, yes, volume is key to prices.

If an app can sell 100,000 copies then they could sell it for 1 euro a copy and it would still probably be making its money back several times over. The only realistic way to reach those sales figures is an on-phone app store, which is hopefully what Ovi Store will provide for Symbian very soon.

Gravity is worth the money.. and so is supporting a great programmer who will inevitably come out with more apps of the same caliber in the future. It's also a great example of what "to do" (fluid kinetic scrolling, easy access urls, pleasant looks, auto updates, gallery integration, etc.) Lets hope other programmers follow his example.

On the other hand, "WorldMate".. @ $30 for a license.. is insane. What could be easily a free widget, grabbing info from all flight sources.

Let's hope OVI will include more apps such as gravity... unlike other stores filled with many useless apps.

I don't think ~10� is all that expensive for a piece of software that's gorgeous & as well supported as Gravity.

Also, another native S60 client called Twittix is going to launch soon - and it's 4.99� afaik...let the feature/price wars begin 😉

Tzer2 wrote:Bheetebrij..which is hopefully what Ovi Store will provide for Symbian very soon.

Yes, I had a quick look at this app, and it is something I would consider paying that amount of money for. I will wait for it to appear on the Ovi Store before buying.

However, even that amount is quite high for a Chinese (for example) income. They will have to judge how much they can charge in order to make the profit they want. If they lower it, they will make it more affordable to many more people - I'd guess it's almost exponential. On the other hand, some people perceive value in terms of price, so you'll lose some...'well rid', if you ask me, though I guess they could get around that problem by having a 'premium edition' which something extra (a rarely used feature, or support, for example).

Okay I'll get this out of the way first.

HE MENTIONED MY NAME, Its me, yes me @gerrymoth 😊

Okay, back to normality, I'll start my saying Gravity is a breath of fresh air for the S60 platform, its user interface is the best I've seen in any application, its smooth and really COOL looking, its still got its little bugs here and there which Jan is fixing in quick time as soon as they are found. Its even been remarked NOKIA should be looking at his work with scrolling on the Nokia 5800XM! So as someone already mentioned this isn't your Apple App Store �0.99 iFart application.

Now to your main concern, THE PRICE. Is the price to high? Personally I don't think so looking at all the other S60 applications on the market and their pricing, hey even games on N-Gage cost �6-�9, so is �7.20 too much or are you just looking at a �4.99 price as a marketing tool to sell the product? Does Gravity need the �4.99 marketing ploy, I don't think so as I have seen loads of people try the demo application for a few hours and reply quickly saying they have paid for the license. If the products good and people want it, they will pay for it. If its too expensive then they wont sell much. But according to Jan yesterday I think his expected first days sales have exceeded his expectations.

That's a little over USD$10 right now, which is very reasonable. It's the best Twitter app I've used on any device, in many ways even compared to desktop apps, so no, I don't think that's overpriced. It's worth it.

Don't like it, don't buy it. Why waste time complaining? Oh right... it's the Internet.

Market forces -- i.e., low sales -- will make him lower his price, if indeed it is overpriced. On the other hand, I saw on Twitter that it was his most successful product launch ever, so I wouldn't hold your breath.

shbib wrote:...but it's not *that* much better than Dabr which is absolutely free. Personally i prefer Dabr's powerful simplicity too.

"I think you're too expensive compared to a free product that I actually prefer over yours. Lower your price." Yeah, that's a winning argument.

Some apps are over the odds, 'Handy .....' apps are way too much.

I would not want to pay more than a tenner for an app, that said I still have two registered copies of gravity, one or each phone.

The current level of back up and the rate updates are coming out also adds real value too.

Noooo... I disagree - I think the price point is fine - heck I paid �9 (twice) for PanoMan. Why? Because its simple, but well written software. This is the first app i've seen on the 5800 that starts to show how well it can actually do things, it's very swish and tidy, so i'm happy to pay a premium. Sure dabr gets the job done, and I love it to bits - it will always be 'my weapon of choice' when i'm at a PC and can't use Tweetdeck. But I want to use an app that not only looks good, it does the job well, and for �7 - that's less than the price of two beers.

Kip wrote:Noooo... I disagree - I think the price point is fine.... and for �7 - that's less than the price of two beers.

Well, yea, but it all depends on your income and the cost of living where you are. In some places, the �7 is more like �70 would be to you - the two beers cost more like 70p (I kid you not!). Would *you* buy it if it were �70? I suspect not. On the other hand, would you buy it if it were 70p? I suspect you would.

If they were to halve the price, then they'd get many more sales - well, if it were popular in the low-cost-of-living places. ...and don't make the mistake that those places are somehow 'behind' in this-sort-of-thing - they're most definitely not. Looking at the server logs for a 'download' button on an application I helped develop a year or two ago showed most people pressing the 'download' button were from India, Indonesia, and Russia - not so many from Europe, but some (and the app wasn't targeted at Asia in any particular way).

There's definitely a skill to pricing, that's for sure. I think Ovi will be game-changing, at least for S60...

Hi James,

unusual price, dont know why, either it should be much cheaper as you state, which makes sense, or free perhaps?

The number one goal should be to get people using it, commenting upon it, loving it, raving about it, anything that stands in the way of that happening, and the price may be it, is a big no-no.

Could they lower the price? of course, they could then charge for premium support, that is one way of doing it, or have a slightly lower spec'd version, maybe for free of not much more than. then have a version of the app "with go faster stripes" , i'm certain there are many more ways of marketing this.

Of course, the challenge is more than price.

If they are targeting the early adopters and lets face it, thats likely, perhaps they'll be swooning from the list of "things it does" however if they are looking for this to travel well, I think they may experience some challenges. Here are some thoughts about why people buy.

A customer has needs. Translate the features of the product or service into benefits. A product or service has features. Product benefits are the links between a product�s features and the customer�s needs. You satisfy your customer�s needs by translating features of your product into benefits.

Here is a list of the main reasons that people buy

1. People Buy To Save Time:

2. People Buy To Save Energy (personal effort):

3. People Buy To Save / Make Money:

4. People Buy For Security:

5. People Buy For Comfort:

6. People Buy To Reduce / Eliminate Pain:

7. People Buy To Avoid Trouble:

8. People Buy For Pleasure / Entertainment:

9. People Buy To Satisfy Curiosity:

10. People Buy To Take Advantage Of Opportunities:

11. People Buy For Vanity:

I can't immediately see which of these is satisfied by gravity i'm afraid, they list extensive features and I say "so what". if they can tell me how it helps me, utilising the list above, that would be a great start.

If they can think about the "target audience" and what motivates them and how they help them I reckon they'll more likely be on to a winner.

mikeashworth

Markets, not punditry, dictate pricing in a capitalist economy.

The only people with the data available to be able to judge this pricing successful or not are the makers themselves - who presumably tested this price point and can now monitor its success.

Regardless, this has generated huge PR for them. The only thing worse than being talked about is... etc etc.

Anecdotally? I would say they deserve someone's 7 pounds more than a crummy British sandwich shop does for a soggy roll and coffee. It's adding major functionality to a device that cost almost 3 orders of magnitude more.

Good software ain't cheap. (Soggy rolls should be)

The price of Gravity should be brought down to €5 cause it's stuck to a single IMEI.

I've used the Trial version & I like it, but I'm only willing to pay €9 if I can transfer the application to my new S60 device.

It's insane for me to keep paying €9 everytime I change my phone, cause I buy phones every 6 months.

I use an N82 for weekends & the E71 for work nowadays, and I want Gravity on both of my phones, but the price is too much to pay twice !!

I'd like to know what James thinks of the price of other Symbian pay-for apps. Are they all over-priced too?

My personal view on this is the pricing of Gravity is more than fair (I was actually surprised it was less than �10). That's what I have become accustomed to in the Symbian world. I've already bought a couple of copies (multiple handsets). See also this blog post.

But clearly there is a discussion to be had here. Application stores are forcing prices down and that creates a perception problem.

I suspect the sub $5 app price is not going to be sustainable, long term, for some developers and certain apps. Even with app stores getting the number of sales that supports this is going to be difficult. Yes some software can, but not all.

This issue has come up in the iPhone App Store and Android Marketplace. The danger with the race to zero for software is that it kills off complex apps (no point investing in them as returns are smaller than basic apps). This could be potentially very damaging to a platform ecosystem.

There is a need to differentiate between disposable apps and productivity / functionality adding applications. This is difficult in current app stores. It'll be interesting to see what Ovi Store's SoLo brings to the table. Yes I do think there is a threshold past which people wont pay, but I think this varies depending on the type of application / game. Arguably also from user to user (generally I'm less willing to pay high prices for games). The issue is how to communicate this different value to end users?

So yes sub $5 for disposable apps (ones you might use for a week or two), but not for long term function adding apps (which you use for the life time of your phone). Even this two tier definition is an over-simplification.

Hmm not expressed as well I would like, will revisit this later. Economic theory could shed some interesting light on this. Price optimisation requires a bit of though, but its also certainly possible. i.e. cut app cost = more sales, but only cost such that extra sales gains more revenue than price cost costs. I suspect Gravity has it about right in this instance.

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I'm also aware that this is a controversial topic and some may think AAS are doing a disservice to developers but writing about this topics, and that that we should do more to support developers. However while we are a 'community' site in one sense we also strive to be as professional as possible. As such we will cover hot topics and comment from all angles. Many voices give the broadest view. We're happy to hear from anyone who wants to express an opinion.

Unregistered wrote:The price of Gravity should be brought down to �5 cause it's stuck to a single IMEI.

I've used the Trial version & I like it, but I'm only willing to pay �9 if I can transfer the application to my new S60 device.

It's insane for me to keep paying �9 everytime I change my phone, cause I buy phones every 6 months.

I use an N82 for weekends & the E71 for work nowadays, and I want Gravity on both of my phones, but the price is too much to pay twice !!

Mobileways.de (the author), like many developers, will happily transfer your license to a new phone if you contact him via their support pages.

I realise this doesn't help if you use two devices, and in an ideal world apps should be licensed to the users not a device. The tied to the IMEI has happened because of piracy (another subject altogether)...

Edited: to reflect mobileways.de is just one person. Shouldn't really make a difference, but psychologically make me want to support more.

You can of course transfer a license for free. Just send me the new IMEI and that's it.

I might be having a word or two about this "top story", but right now feeling just far too bitter and sad about it. Not the right time to comment.

ole at mobileways.de

P.S.: you don't need to say "they" or "them" 'cause mobileways is just me 😊

Gravity is a beautiful program - one of the nicest I've come across for my N95-8gb in a long time. I think that the developers are right to expect some money for their hard work.

I have 2 problems here as a consumer:

1. How come Gravity is the only native S60 twitter client? The iphone has so many clients I can't count them all. For S60, we have a couple of java apps and some IM programs with Twitter functionality tacked on.
1. $10 US is way too much, in my mind, for this application when comparable apps on the iPhone only cost $3 or less.

Nokia really should be spending less time tinkering with Ovi and concentrate on helping make app development easy and cheaper for their platform. The lack of quality applications (still waiting on Facebook... will it cost us $20 when it finally does come out?) and the high price of those that do exist are making me seriously reconsider whether I want to stick with Nokia phones in the future. If a phone running Android or WebOS comes along sporting some decent hardware, I may end up switching.

I heard that Spinvox is just a call centre with indians typing out the voicemails? Not speech recognition? Is it true?

Jan Ole Suhr wrote:
I might be having a word or two about this "top story", but right now feeling just far too bitter and sad about it.

Sorry to hear that, Jan. A good product like Gravity will always stand out and have its users, though. I just hope it pays your bills, so you can continue developing for our platform... cos you are making S60 look great and that is pretty hard, from what I understand.

Good job, and well worth the money!!

While I can understand that the developer has put a lot of time and effort into this highly polished project, and rightly should ask for money, I feel that �7 is asking a bit much (�2-3 maybe).

As mentioned in the post above, the likes of the App Store have radically shaken up the mobile app market, and removed the strangle-hold that the likes of Handango have previously had on app prices.

The App store has shown us that you can get decent fully-featured games (and apps) at affordable prices. There are some brilliant games for around a fiver (some less) which are great value for money. I agree that there is a serious problem with crAPPware filling the Stores, bringing on a society of 'if its not 59p or less then the developer gets shot down'.

To me Twitter Apps are just a nice way for you to interact with Twitter, they bring added value, that mobile web-based Twitter does not offer. This isn't something that is really that radical, as other people have created such iPhone apps (some free, some at a small charge). Tweetie is a fine example of a polished Twitter App that does pretty much the same as Gravity (multi-accounts, search, trends etc) and you can get that for �1.79!

In the context of price, I think that a game is naturally more complex in design and should be priced accordingly. The latest N-Gage Game - The Prince of Persia - sells for �8, is a Twitter App (at 60p less) in the same league? Simple answer - No.

Simply speaking all a Twitter App does is makes some API calls and reformats the results from an infrastructure that already exists.

Gravity is a great app - something that S60 apps handsets have been calling out for. While lots of sweat and tears will have gone into it - at the end of the day its just a Twitter Client!

If people want to spend �7 on an app that's up to them. Maybe Gravity just needs a bit more competition. The iPhone has Twitterrific Premium @ �5.99, why? there are loads of other apps at more then half the price that do the same thing.

I guess at the end of the day its down to choice (or lack of).

Come on! The British pound is worth nothing, but Gravity is excellent. On other platforms I would pay more fore an application like that!