The BBC now streaming live mobile TV

It makes me wonder if protesting loudly to the BBC does actually have an effect. I've been giving them loads of stick on forums and feedback forms recently about dropping iPlayer downloads from the 5800. When Cellan-Jones squeezed yet another blog entry about the iPhone out of a trivial Apple press release the other day, I'd really had enough, and so had a lot of other people, judging from the number of people who let fly in the comments. So now they seem to be redressing the balance towards the increasing numbers of 5800 owners out there; good on 'em!

dam one time i have new news and i cant log in, i had to post as unregistered. so no cudos :0(

I've been working hard to convinced the wife that overall, her new 5800 is far better than the iPhone even though it's cheaper (her nephew dropped the iPhone in the fish tank a few months back).

With the BBC now making an effort to nake it's services available to non iPhone users I think it's finally sinking in (even allowing for iPhone 3.0 software). If they carry on like this, I might even look forward to paying my TV license (sorry, I take that back).

By the way, now I've switched to a pay as you go contract I've been using Fring to make MSN calles to her over 3G instead of paying for minutes (Just �5 a month on 3). Quality can be patchy sometimes, but when reception is good it is excellent.

Very happy with the 5800. So much so, that I'm starting to wonder if it is worth hanging around for my next phone purchase (currently using N82). I was thinking N97/Omnia HD/Toshiba TG01(I love 800 x 480, WinMo 6.5 looks ok but no flash on camera...), but I'm starting to question whether (for me) it's actually worth the wait or extra money.

If they could just put a few more free apps out there for the 5800 and some nice games I think I be sold. Though the camera could be better. Improvements in next firmware ?

Zuber

Just for your information,

the BBC video/radio is blocked for foreigners, and can't be accessed from a foreign phone (The Netherlands in my case).

As the rest of the world decided the iPhone was the best thing EVAR over a year ago, I thought "well at least I have All About Symbian" it wasn't about the phone, it was about the platform. Then the BBC also decided to slight the people who were using the most used mobile OS and go for the fashion favourite iPhone...luckily everyone here was joined in unity over the unfairness of it.

Now I see us fractured and people who own the 5800 engaging in the sort of "me, me, me" attitude of the iPhone owners who grew tired of other mobile platforms users complaints. Is there a real reason to block people who own other S60 phones? Does AAS not think this is wrong? Half the front page stories are dedicated to a single handset. Time for a name change, All About 5800.

Works very nicely on the N96.

>>Now I see us fractured and people who own the 5800 engaging in the sort of "me, me, me" attitude of the iPhone owners who grew tired of other mobile platforms users complaints. Is there a real reason to block people who own other S60 phones? Does AAS not think this is wrong? Half the front page stories are dedicated to a single handset. Time for a name change, All About 5800.

You're doing us an injustice, I think. We simply report new developments in the industry. It's just that S60 5th Edition and its new capabilities (e.g. the N96-like RealPlayer integration and DRM needed here) are the focus of much of the effort from the ecosystem. Where possible, everything's also applied to 3rd Edition phones. I have various N95s and an N82 here and I try everything new that comes out on these as well. But if something only works on the N96 and 5800 (and the imminent N97), we have to simply report it as such.

In short, no-one's being 'blocked', it's just the focus of newsworthy stories tends to shift as times goes on.... though I'm as keen as the next person to see new apps for the 'classic' S60 phones - the E90, the N95 and N82.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying AAS is doing the blocking...it just seems the BBC artificially gimps things to keep as few people as possible in the loop for no good reason, I'm just saying such questions should be put to them and some justification sought on behalf of the rest of us by those of you in the media who have access.

I just assumed is was in some way related to DRM stuff and that older phones did not have the pre-requisite bits installed. Hence, BBC not allowing download until Nokia 'fixed' the 5800 with v20 firmware.

Anyone able to confirm/deny if this is correct ?

Zuber

That might be the case in terms of downloaded video...but I can't see the justification when it comes to streaming, either catch-up or live. Surely the only issue there is blocking outside the UK. Apart from that, every TV licence paying member of the public should have access.

Bosambo wrote: Time for a name change, All About 5800.

I think that's rather unfair. AAS also get accused of being Nokia-centric, and yet they're obviously quite excited by the new Samsung Omnia HD. I think your perception is simply due to there being a real buzz around the 5800 at the moment; and come on, full iPlayer functionality and live TV is pretty significant news, in the UK at any rate. (But it probably won't be reported by the BBC, who will keep blathering on about iPhones.)

I think this has been working (at least in beta mode) for a while - I got my 5800 a couple of weeks ago and noticed then that you could stream live BBC stuff

Bosambo wrote:That might be the case in terms of downloaded video...but I can't see the justification when it comes to streaming, either catch-up or live. Surely the only issue there is blocking outside the UK. Apart from that, every TV licence paying member of the public should have access.

The reason given for that was that they didn't want to get sued by some numpty who had run up a huge bill for 3G data. Or have to keep fending-off enquiries from people who didn't know you have to set the AP separately for RealPlayer. As the access point handling on pre-FP2 devices is clearly a pile of pants, I actually have some sympathy with that point of view, despite being one of the disappointed, 'penalised' N95 owners.

samwarnaars wrote:Just for your information,

the BBC video/radio is blocked for foreigners, and can't be accessed from a foreign phone (The Netherlands in my case).

"To be born British is to win the lottery of life."

(Kipling?)

neilhoskins wrote:I think that's rather unfair. AAS also get accused of being Nokia-centric, and yet they're obviously quite excited by the new Samsung Omnia HD. I think your perception is simply due to there being a real buzz around the 5800 at the moment; and come on, full iPlayer functionality and live TV is pretty significant news, in the UK at any rate. (But it probably won't be reported by the BBC, who will keep blathering on about iPhones.)

Well funnily enough on visiting the BBC mobile site they're actually blathering on about the LG Arena.

Just plain unfair that is doesn't support other S60 devices like my trusty E71!!!

FYI, this works on my trusty SE P1i. Picture quality is so-so, sound is fine.

Best regards,
Malcolm

This isn't a question of the iPhone or any other phone being "best", it's a question of the BBC (which is funded entirely through what is effectively a tax on television ownership) being biased in favour of one commercial product over another, especially when so few people actually use that product.

Whatever you think of the iPhone, you can't possibly say it has a mainstream takeup. Apple have something like a few percent market share and the vast majority of people use non-Apple phones. Even just looking at smartphone owners something like 80%+ of people use a non-Apple product.

So why on earth does the BBC keep covering the iPhone on the same scale as deadly hurricanes, armed coups and general elections?

One might say they're interested in technology, but why Apple technology? Why doesn't a Symbian or Windows Mobile or Palm or Android update get a news item, let alone front page status? Or indeed why doesn't non-smart phone technology get covered, which makes up the vast majority of sales globally?

One might also say it's the right of journalists to choose what they cover, but this isn't quite true in the case of the BBC. Because every UK household with a television set is obligated by law to pay the BBC about 150 pounds a year, the BBC is supposed to take a wider view of things and avoid plugging any particular product. In the case of technology, the BBC is supposed to be there for all of us, whichever products we choose to use, and at the very least should cover every major technology platform equally.

It's actually breaching the BBC's charter if it does cover one product over others, which is why presenters keep saying "other Xs are available" when they mention a brand name, as a sort of legal get-out clause. But they don't seem to do this properly with the iPhone, I've rarely heard them mention that the same functions have been available for years on other devices, and they keep talking about the iPhone in blog post topics which really should have nothing to do with any platform in particular.

What's going on?

Half the front page stories are dedicated to a single handset. Time for a name change, All About 5800.

There might appear to be a lot of 5800 stories on AAS, but they're really stories about S60 5th Edition.

At the moment the 5800 is the only S60 5th device because it's the first, but once we see the Omnia HD, N97 etc launch these same stories will cover a wider range of devices.

The same goes for the tutorials, once we see more S60 5th devices in the shops we'll be expanding the tutorials to cover them, and re-using the current tutorial texts wherever possible. They will all share roughly the same interface so they should be able to use roughly the same tutorials.

We cannot write tutorials based on prototype hardware, as the interface and menu structures can change radically by the time a phone is released, and indeed what would be the point of tutorials for products that people can't buy yet?

hi,
just tried it on N95 and N85 and comes up with "Your device appears to be unable to support this service." Continue 😞

Does anyone have direct link for the streams or just BBC News and Parliament 😊

You know that sometimes you read something written by a journalist on a subject that you happen to have some expertise, you realise the journalist hasn't a clue and is writing rubbish. Well, this applies to the BBC journalists who give so much coverage to the iPhone. Remember, they are in the media, and Apple Macs are the incumbent platform for media and design. So you wouldn't expect a BBC journalist to know about much else.

In my opinion the iPhone gets mentioned a bit too much on AAS, if I want to read about iPhone I'll go to the BBC.

>> In my opinion the iPhone gets mentioned a bit too much on AAS, if I want to read about iPhone I'll go to the BBC.

Not in the main editorial - it's more than the iPhone pops up in the user comments regularly - so it's all your fault 8-)

Bosambo wrote:Half the front page stories are dedicated to a single handset. Time for a name change, All About 5800.

[SIZE="2"]Right on! Fully agreed. The above two sentences sum it all up.

The once mighty AAS has become a poster boy for the crappy 5800. Good job guys of advertising the handset for Nokia.

Well guess what... I'm sorry but the 5800 is a plasticky POS handset for the masses. The artificial buzz created by AAS is sickening and so transparent. Any free handsets Nokia will throw to AAS they will sing its' praises and put 6 million articles about it on the front page.

What happened to AAS being target at a niche knowledgable audience?

To hell with 5800... bring back the old AAS ![/SIZE]

@Arthur .. WHOA. seriously, get a life. It's a free country, www.google.co.uk will bring you millions of other sites to amuse you. If you dont like AAS rather than rant about it just dont bother visiting!

Anyway, back on topic. To me this is like when I learnt how to ride a bike with no hands when I was a kid. It was a neat trick but but I could never actually figure out when I actually needed both hands for something else while I was on my bike, there was never a chance to show it off.

This is kinda the same thing. I'm such a geek and love the idea of live, streaming TV on my phone. I just can't think of a single time that it would work when I would want it.

At home? Why would I watch TV on my phone, I got a TV for that.
When I am away? This would be when I want it most .. Oh, doesn't work outside the UK.
On the train? Oh, Wifi only.
In the office: I guess. Maybe. If I didnt have work to do, and if there was anything on worth while at that time, and nothing at all I could watch high quality via iplayer, etc.

Anyway, its still a neat trick to show other ppl in my office. Oh, and I can still ride a bike with no hands 😉

Arthur wrote:[SIZE="2"]Right on! Fully agreed. The above two sentences sum it all up.

The once mighty AAS has become a poster boy for the crappy 5800. Good job guys of advertising the handset for Nokia.[/SIZE]

AAS stands for All About SYMBIAN... the key word there is "Symbian".

The latest version of the Symbian OS is version 9.4, the latest version of S60 is S60 5th Edition.

The reason so many headlines have "5800" in them is because we're trying to cover the latest version of Symbian, and so far the only handset to use this latest version is the 5800. By default any coverage of the latest Symbian stuff is going to include a lot of 5800 material.

Once there are more S60 5th Edition devices in the shops we'll stop using the term "5800" and start talking more in terms of "S60 5th Edition", because the platform will also include the Samsung Omnia HD, Nokia N97 and whatever other S60v5 devices appear over the coming year.

Just to give a similar example, when S60 first launched you would have seen a heck of a lot of 7650 coverage, because the 7650 was the only handset to support it, but once other S60 devices appeared the 7650 got mentioned a lot less often.

Well guess what... I'm sorry but the 5800 is a plasticky POS handset for the masses. The artificial buzz created by AAS is sickening and so transparent. Any free handsets Nokia will throw to AAS they will sing its' praises

You might want to get your facts straight before you start making accusations.

I wrote most of the 5800 beginners tutorials, and my 5800 was NOT free, it was purchased at full SIM-free price from an ordinary highstreet retailer.

And what's wrong with a cheap handset "for the masses"? Do you think smartphones should only be for a wealthy elite?

The main strength of Symbian is that it's a lot cheaper to produce mass market devices that can run the OS, so it can more easily reach a wider audience. Reaching as wide an audience as possible is key to the survival of any operating system. Symbian's future depends on it being used on ever-cheaper devices.

What happened to AAS being target at a niche knowledgable audience?

To hell with 5800... bring back the old AAS !

AAS covers Symbian in all its forms, both cutting edge and mass market stuff.

Most of the stories on AAS do assume a lot of knowledge, but what's wrong with doing some tutorials covering the basics for people who are new to Symbian?

Or should we exclude newcomers because they don't know as much as us old hands?

A lot of people click on these tutorials. If people didn't read them, we wouldn't bother writing them.

"I just can't think of a single time that it would work when I would want it."

I can.

Next time there is something interesting on Sky or Dave (Like Stargate or some other Sci-Fi) and the wife want to watch Eastenders, I can give her the deadphones and carry on watching something worth watching. (Though I do confess to getting hooked on the Danielle/Rony story and was really cheesed when they killed her)...

Similarly, when stuck in a hotel with WiFi access, this can be a real treat (along with iPlayer). I usually have my laptop as well, but it's nice just to lay in bed with something much more compact sometimes.

Zuber

Unregistered wrote:I can.

Next time there is something interesting on Sky or Dave (Like Stargate or some other Sci-Fi) and the wife want to watch Eastenders, I can give her the deadphones and carry on watching something worth watching.

I suspect then that your wife is a little more amenable than mine. In our house time itself (or at least me and the kids) better stand still when Eastenders is on!

Unregistered wrote:
Similarly, when stuck in a hotel with WiFi access, this can be a real treat (along with iPlayer).

Would this be a hotel without a TV? Can I suggest you upgrade from the 14th Century to a Travel Lodge at least for your next business trip 😉

I thought I would add my thoughts to this topic.

The live stuff will very likely be integrated into the iPlayer widget at some point. I do agree that the use is a bit limited. However I imagine, as with the iPlayer, that some operators will support over 3G at some point (e.g. Vodafone and 3 - I think - support iPlayer over 3G).

With regards to BBC and device support. The BBC supports the devices it feel will get be most popular when using the service. You may not always agree with this. More people use iPlayer on the iPhone than on the Nokia devices - why - well its supported around longer, has a bigger screen etc. Also people with iPhone are probably likely to use iPlayer. i.e. a higher proportion of iPhone users also use iPlayer.

---

With regards to 5800 coverage on AAS. Yes I'm aware that there's been a lot of it, but there's a double whammy going on - it is is a popular device and a new platform. That means there is a lot to write about. A However I have asked all writers to include both where possible.

Also, looking at the stats, 5800 articles and reviews tend to get looked at more than stuff for the older devices. That does have an impact as AAS' revenue is based of advertising which is linked to traffic.

The 5800 tutorial series is something that has added to the weight of 5800 content, but this is intended to be for S60 5th Edition generally. I think we will probably do a similar set created for S60 3rd Edition Feature Pack 2 phones. This is a conscious effort to create more reference material and broaden the audience of the site. Just as we are doing for developer content.

With regards to Arthur's post . While we do get loan handsets from Nokia. Usually these loans last about a month, sometimes longer. I currently have an E75, for example (non 5800 content coming up).

I bought my 5800 at the launch event in London (I have since doomed it by putting in the washing machine - probably going to buy another). However, despite what many people seem to think, we do not get free hands sets.

Quite apart from that we take our independence and objectivity very seriously. Clearly as a Symbian focused site we are writing from a certain stand point, but we do are best to report accurately and in detail. If we don't like something we say so. We also place a lot of importance on writing from a neutral stand point - this means understanding a handset in its context. Look at the positioning, pricing etc. this means that a handset that for some is rubbish (e.g. the 5800) is great for others for reasons of cost. The most difficult thing to do is evaluate a service / software / device from outside your own personal perspective.

We focus on all Symbian stuff, and yes yes high end handsets usually get the most coverage. We're going to be looking at the N97 and Samsung Omnia HD in lots of detail and there are other handsets coming up later in the year that are, potentially, even more exciting. But at the same time we aim to cover every thing. With the E75, E55, N86, 6720, 6710, 5630, 5730 all on the way in the next six months you'll also see a lot of other devices covered. The mid tier is more relevant, arguable, to the future of open platform phones than any other.

With all that said I appreciate the feedback - so please keep it coming. If you wish you can email me directly at [email][email protected][/email]

Hi Rafe,

"We're going to be looking at the N97 and Samsung Omnia HD in lots of detail and there are other handsets coming up later in the year that are, potentially, even more exciting."

Would you care to elaborate on the future handsets that are potentially even more exciting.

I tend to be a bit tight with my money (tough times), so I'm in a dilema over how much to spend. Should I splash out �500+ on one of the bit hitters due by the summer (and keep for 18-24 months)or "make do" with a 5800 and see what else is on the horizon.

PaulyLaw,

"Would this be a hotel without a TV? Can I suggest you upgrade from the 14th Century to a Travel Lodge at least for your next business trip 😉 "

I know that was intended to be taken lightly, but you would be surprised how many hotels just give you channels 1 to 5 (often with 5 geing quite fuzzy). Some of the expensive ones can be worse, trying to use every opportunity to try and charge you an arm and a leg for something. This gives access to several BBC channels.

�15 a night for Internet access. They're taking the P... (even if the company is paying).

Zuber

Just thought I would add some views to the 'iPhone gets too much priority' debate. I'm a Symbian lover, very happy with my N85 and wouldn't really consider buying an iPhone, however the reason it gets the special coverage & treatment is that whilst the number of devices out there is relatively low, the usage is much higher due to the nature of the users.
There was a press release on Comscore recently (I'm not able to post links, but the article is press release no. 2759 if that helps you find it) - shows how much more active iPhone users are with this type of thing than other smartphone users, and therefore it makes sense for service providers to target the iPhone.
Finally, I work within the mobile team of a fairly big UK website, and over 30% of our traffic is from iPhones (nearly 40% including iPod Touch), and that will end up having some influence of how we prioritise new developments.