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A Nokia N97 sort of day...

50 replies · 16,357 views · Started 07 May 2009

Just a few miscellaneous Nokia N97 bits and pieces. Rafe, Ewan and I had the N97 as the core of our recording of AAS Insight 70, which will be up on Monday - we're all in agreement over the great 'N97 clock speed' debate, at least. Then there were yet more example N97 camera photos, looking good, all taken by a Symbian employee no less. And now there's a near-ten-minute arty video (embedded below) from the guys who designed the N97, including some interesting snaps of the Nokia production line and some new screenshots and animations (plus all you ever wanted to know about the N97 hinge).

Read on in the full article.

Those pictures look really good and vibrant, altough with graffitis it's pretty hard to say how natural the colour definition is.

First sentence from the vid "What people want is what we wanted to build here"

Fail. People want, quite clearly, a Xenon Flash. People want to not have to keep compromising with Nokia products. People want to not have to put up with a phone that has several great features and a few crap ones, as if they're somehow trying to keep the balance. I want ONE device that means I don't have to carry any other device. The N97 automatically fails because I quite often want to take night shots, and LED flash NEVER MAKES THE GRADE. Ever. Why will Nokia not realise this?

The N82 is STILL the best handset Nokia have produced, and in my opinion the best handset in the world, because it fulfills all my ESSENTIAL needs and requirements. Early adopters take note: touch sensitivity and the latest firmware are not essential needs. Being able to take half decent photos in the dark, is. Of course, there are other essential needs, but the N82 fufills all those that mean I don't need to carry ANY other device. At all. The N97 offers nothing over the N82 in terms of essential needs. Therefore I, like many others, will not spend money on the N97. Which is Nokia's base reason for producing it. So they have failed, at least with many potential buyers.

On a separate note, that is almost the worst embedded video player I have used, the expand to full screen button doesn't work and the HD/SD res. button fails half the time. Dear oh dear.

Hi,
indeed, the pictures look good and ways better than pictures taken with the N96. The video is really great. Seeing the work in the backgroudn is really interesting.

Looking forward to listen to AAS #70

Norman

Steve, when are you guys getting this handset to review? We're all itching for a good review!

"On a separate note, that is almost the worst embedded video player I have used, the expand to full screen button doesn't work and the HD/SD res. button fails half the time. Dear oh dear."
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What else would you expect from one of Nokia's services? Is THIS what people are forgiving Nokia's shortcomings for? Is THIS what allowed Nokia to consistently pump out mediocre hardware for the past year? THIS is what the Nokia fanboys/bloggers are hyping up (with little success, mind you), honestly? Ovi? Pathetic.

Unregistered wrote:Steve, when are you guys getting this handset to review? We're all itching for a good review!

Sadly, I don't think any of us at AAS will be getting serious hands-on time until the N97 starts appearing in shops somewhere in the world.... Very much looking forward to it though.

Nokia N97 design team, let me introduce you the HTC TyTN II, released in 2007. Seriously, watching the video I couldn't believe how big a deal they made of the sliding keyboard with the tilted screen, like it was something the world had never seen before.

I don't know...

I've always liked Nokia, love S60/Symbian. As a power user I feel let down. So many great new things were brought to the table with the N95.

The N97 feels like a recycled N95 with a large touchscreen and qwerty keyboard (the other stuff is fairly insignificant). I'm sure this thing will be somewhat of a success in the mainstream, but I think Nokia has really let down its power users.

I also think the N97 cost nokia very little to produce as it is probably shares components from the N95, which would now be very cheap. They are relying heavily on marketing and things like Widgets, purely because they really don't have anything new or innovative to offer.

I'd move to something like the Samsung i8910 (Touchwiz, native divx, 720p video recording 8mp) - but Nokia has me in a bind with Nokia only apps like Nokia Maps, Sports tracker, and all of the cool stuff coming out of Beta Labs....

@Enizmitic, wait until we see what GPS solutions are available from Samsung before passing judgment. I really like what Nokia has done with Maps 3.0, but again, we've had to wait almost 2 years for that software to mature.

Since it's still S60v5, other GPS solutions like GarminXT and the like will still work, and I would be very surprised if the hacking community didn't find a way to hack all of Nokia's applications onto the i8910 within the first few weeks of its wider public availability like what has been done with other Samsung S60 devices in the past.

Enizmitic wrote:I also think the N97 cost nokia very little to produce as it is probably shares components from the N95, which would now be very cheap.
I would imagine that the N97 shares very few components from the N95. Different form-factor, different processors. What components, exactly, do you believe these two very different models actually share?

I seriously doubt that Nokia design phones to please typical users of websites like this AAS one. So called power users who want the world need to remember that they are a niche market and are not going to sustain a company that is out to make a profit. Nokia are not going to waste millions of euros trying to please nit-pickers when they are guaranteed to fail because the nit-pickers will never be happy. The xenon flash is another thing that people refuse to accept is not suitable in profitable phone manufacture.

Nokia just want something to push out to as many buyers as possible and make as much cash as possible, and if that annoys and loses some geek customers then so be it.

about NOT getting this device.
1. lack of xenon ... is really really a stupid design decision.
2. the camera should have had an improved sensor to 8Mp at least
3. the D-pad for me is just a waste of keyboard space. I don't want a gaming console.

I would have considered the N86 but that too fails on point 1.
Sorry Nokia. I'm also considering the Samsung.

For those who consider the lack of xenon a stupid design decision, perhaps you would like to help integrate a bulky, battery-hungry xenon flash complete with high voltages, fragility and expensive ungreen technologies into a compact handheld device to meet fcc and various other regulatory requirements in a short timeframe and on budget.

Let me know when you've finished.

I won't hold my breath.

Unregistered wrote:For those who consider the lack of xenon a stupid design decision, perhaps you would like to help integrate a bulky, battery-hungry xenon flash complete with high voltages, fragility and expensive ungreen technologies into a compact handheld device to meet fcc and various other regulatory requirements in a short timeframe and on budget.

Hahahaha. I have a N82. It's smaller than a N95 (so much for being bulky). When I bought it, it was cheaper than a N95 by almost 100 euros (so much for being expensive). It has a 1050mAh battery, which is adequate (so much for being battery-hungry). I don't think any N82 has ever exploded, in spite of the "high voltages" (ooh, I'm scared!). As for the alleged fragility of the N82, I think I'll let Steve address that one. Please don't make stuff up.

rvirga wrote:Hahahaha. I have a N82. It's smaller than a N95 (so much for being bulky). When I bought it, it was cheaper than a N95 by almost 100 euros (so much for being expensive). It has a 1050mAh battery, which is adequate (so much for being battery-hungry). I don't think any N82 has ever exploded, in spite of the "high voltages" (ooh, I'm scared!). As for the alleged fragility of the N82, I think I'll let Steve address that one. Please don't make stuff up.

As an owner of the N82 and the Classic N95 too, I would like to thank you for expressing my thoughts as well. Might I add, Steve(I believe) has also pointed on several occasions that the Xenon flash had not stopped Nokia from making the 6220 even thinner than the N82.

Unless, I can find the N97 for under 500 euro after taxes, I'll be holding out for the N97i or N86 w/ Xenon(you get my point).

rvirga wrote:Hahahaha. I have a N82. It's smaller than a N95 (so much for being bulky). When I bought it, it was cheaper than a N95 by almost 100 euros (so much for being expensive). It has a 1050mAh battery, which is adequate (so much for being battery-hungry). I don't think any N82 has ever exploded, in spite of the "high voltages" (ooh, I'm scared!). As for the alleged fragility of the N82, I think I'll let Steve address that one. Please don't make stuff up.

I don't know why I bother but the usual know-it-all armchair engineers have shown up with their smart-rs remarks. How many of you have been involved in designing such devices? None of you? I though so.

I'm am well aware of the N82 thanks, I did a good deal of work on the development.

www.philipslumileds.com/pdfs/CS09-xenon_vs_LED_flash.pdf

Read and pay particular attention to table 3. Making stuff up? I'll leave that to you.

Unregistered wrote:I don't know why I bother but the usual know-it-all armchair engineers have shown up with their smart-rs remarks. How many of you have been involved in designing such devices? None of you? I though so.

I'm am well aware of the N82 thanks, I did a good deal of work on the development.

www.philipslumileds.com/pdfs/CS09-xenon_vs_LED_flash.pdf

Read and pay particular attention to table 3. Making stuff up? I'll leave that to you.

LOL the xenon zealots got pwned.


I don't know why I bother but the usual know-it-all armchair engineers have shown up with their smart-rs remarks. How many of you have been involved in designing such devices? None of you? I though so.

I'm am well aware of the N82 thanks, I did a good deal of work on the development.

http://www.philipslumileds.com/pdfs/..._LED_flash.pdf

Read and pay particular attention to table 3. Making stuff up? I'll leave that to you.

But now the important question..... Has Nokia worked together with Cap-XX to make the N97 a great camera in low-light situations?

N/A wrote:I would imagine that the N97 shares very few components from the N95. Different form-factor, different processors. What components, exactly, do you believe these two very different models actually share?

Well, as a matter of fact, they do share the same processors, with the exception of a higher clock speed and one being a single CPU instead of a dual CPU. They also most probably share the same camera module, and if they don't, users won't be able to distinguish the difference when taking photos. Given Nokia's track record for rehashing features, they're probably able to save a good chunk of change by using a cheap part and selling it for as high as the N97 is going to be.

It seems to me that if the only thing anyone has got to complain about is the lack of Xenon flash, Nokia must be onto a winner....

QUOTE: LOL the xenon zealots got pwned.

What, with the Philips Developments? Pleased you think so. As I said once before, and am happy to say again - light INTENSITY is less than half the equation. What matters for photographs taken in low light/darkness, is light DISPERSAL. And no matter how BRIGHT you make an LED or LED based illumination tool, it will ALWAYS suffer for being a DIRECTED BEAM of light, not a BURST of wide light to illuminate a scene - hence why Xenon is ALWAYS far better, period.

So go pawn your jewellery all those who think any different... Ask a pro-photographer about photography, not a mobile phone pro.
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QUOTE: I am well aware of the N82 thanks, I did a good deal of work on the development.

If it was to include the Xenon flash. Kudos to you. If it wasn't then what difference however much work you allegedly did on it? The only point raised was that the N82's Xenon flash is what keep so many people still using it now after all this time, and thus not moving to BUY newer released models
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QUOTE: For those who consider the lack of xenon a stupid design decision, perhaps you would like to help integrate a bulky, battery-hungry xenon flash complete with high voltages, fragility and expensive ungreen technologies into a compact handheld device to meet fcc and various other regulatory requirements in a short timeframe and on budget.
Let me know when you've finished.
I won't hold my breath.

As stated above, the N82 does not require ANY of those things. There. I've finished. You can safely breath now, as your comment thus clearly added exactly ZERO to the debate, as it implied a whole raft of things, that clearly are simply not true, as born out by real world facts a la the N82.
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QUOTE: It seems to me that if the only thing anyone has got to complain about is the lack of Xenon flash, Nokia must be onto a winner....

Oh how wrong of you to think so. Not sure if my signature strip shows up properly on here or not, but in any event, my siggie in most forums, is actually my phone history. And in just a few short years, I have owned around nearly SEVENTY or so mobile phones. Of which over NINETY FIVE per cent of them were NOKIAS. That's a HUGE amount of Nokia phones I have owned.

So why do I say all this..? Simple. Because I am what you could safely call a GOOD CUSTOMER for Nokia, and one of those Nokia rely on to keep profit wheels turning for them.

BUT, since they have not yet brought a single phone out to BETTER my N82 on an all round basis, due to nothing other than the 6220 having a Xenon flash, I have not updated my phone much at all in recent times, other than to get an E71 to use for messaging. I STILL use my N82 in order to take photos, then Bluetooth them to my E71 (my main data plan based phone) and thus then send to Facebook etc etc.

But in past times, in the period I have owned my N82, I would normally have changed handsets perhaps FIVE times by now. Yes FIVE NEW Nokia handsets. But the absence of anything having Xenon flash has prevented me doing that.

Or, simply translated, and to answer your WRONG claim... the sole lack of Xenon flash has NOT resulted in a winner for Nokia.

On the contrary, to give a real world example, it has led to the situation where one of their better customers, who would normally have had at least FIVE new handsets since the time he got his N82, has not updated.

If you think a loss of FIVE handsets from one single customer, means Nokia is on to a WINNER, I am sure Nokia are pleased you don't work in their Marketing Department. If the N96, the 5800, and the N86 8MP had of sported Xenon Flash, I can assure I would have owned all three of these handsets now. So tell me again that the lack of Xenon Flash is not HURTING Nokia, and not a LOSER for them, will you?

Your sarcasm notwithstanding, I stand by what I said.

Just because YOU won't be buying one does not mean that not including a Xenon flash is bad for Nokia. I would imagine that very few people are going to use this is a/the only reason for not buying this phone. And anyway, your extreme level of phone ownership is hardly representative of the average phone buyer...

Time will tell if the N97 sells well, but I would expect the price and/or performance to be far more of an issue to any prospective purchaser than the choice of flash.

To be honest, anyone who has the compulsion to change their phone every couple of months has my sympathy.

let the market-place decide .. ultimately thats what will happen ..
I will probably get an N97 .. like other posters I own multiple phones .. and replacing probably my N85 with this will be my upgrade path .. I will be retaining my trusty N95 .. its still the best all around handset IMHO

I saw rumours of a 5900 being developed .. gee I hope the choice is xenon (ducks) on that one!

I took a look at the article link - where is the xenon photo to compare with LED? Perhaps if there was an "accessory flash port - not to power the external xenon flash but to trigger it when the image is being taken .. that could be the go. Another accessory for Nokia to market (smile)

How ever you want to look at it. Some people like a Xenon flash!
But how many people don't like a Xenon flash? If Nokia include a Xenon flash they will sell more phones - that's a simple fact. I really don't understand what the debate is about...
Nokia include a Xenon flash in your top end phones! If people don't want to use it they can turn it off. LED lights are nothing but a gimic....

Personally I use a real camera for taking photos so I don't really care - I just see the facts as they are. Nokia can't make a big deal about a phone being a camera without a Xenon flash. How many cameras are there with LED lights?

Nokia has been hyping this up ridiculously for what it is. But they have also said that there are going to be around 3 new touch screen products coming out this year. I assume there will be a full featured 8mp (hopefully xenon flash) multimedia device. Am I wrong to assume such a wild dream.

As you said, some people like a Xenon flash, which is perfectly fine, and the fact that the N97 does not have this will obviously prevent such people from buying this particular model.

That does not however mean that such an omission is a massive fault on the part of Nokia; as Steve Litchfield pointed out recently, only 4 or 5 phones have EVER had a Xenon flash, so it's not as if Nokia didn't fit something which EVERYONE is including. No doubt the N97i, N98 whaterver it will be called will have a Xenon flash, but that's presumably 18-24 months down the road...

Great, another topic hijacked into yet another 'Xenon is great, Xenon sucks' feeding frenzy.

Why not just have a poll - something along the likes of 'which feature do you think the N97 is most lacking' then you can all whop them out on the counter and see who's biggest.

It'd cut down on the number of current disparate threads and posts that go off on such a tangent they are currently orbiting Vulcan.

Come on guys, give it a go, what's there to lose apart from a lot of bitching and whining (which I'm equally guily of)?

Well just to add to the number of Xenon threads orbiting vulcan *lol*...

Buster...

And I still claim you are blind.

Or more politely, MISSING THE POINT, and I am still sure Nokia are pleased you do NOT work in their Marketing Department.

Let me clarify again for you...

Many people WILL still buy new Nokia handsets, even if they don't have a Xenon flash.

Indeed, many people won't even KNOW what that means when they purchase their shiny new handset.

So what this means is that for those people who do not know about Xenon etc, is that one could hypothetically argue that amongst this market segment, Nokia phone sales are steady, and of the same level.

Let's call that a 100% consistent level shall we.

HOWEVER, in the market segment for those who DO know about Xenon and such like, what I have pointed out to you is that those people are NOT getting new handsets, whereas before they WOULD have had maybe five or so in this time.

So in that market segment, sales are DOWN massively.

What this means in REAL TERMS, is that if you put the two together, to give you the TOTAL market share, sales are DOWN overall.

Now, making it as simple as I can ask, would you now care to explain to me, how a DROP in sales, is a WIN for Nokia?

Or is my explanation still not simple enough?

I'm not wanting to over-elaborate on the Xenon/No Xenon argument too much (well a bit then), but I cannot let such utterly stupid, ridiculous, and FALSE posts like "It seems to me that if the only thing anyone has got to complain about is the lack of Xenon flash, Nokia must be onto a winner.... " be allowed to stand.

It's utterly ridiculous, and totally untrue, and a load of tosh.

How can LOWER sales, be a WINNER for Nokia?

Doh.

Again, across 100% of the Market, if those who know nothing about Xenon are buying in the same quantities, but those who do know about Xenon, are buying less (I'm thinking like FIVE phones less here in two short years), then OVERALL, the Market Sales are DOWN.

So again, how can a REDUCTION in overall sales, as a direct result of this issue, be a WINNER for Nokia?

God give me strength.

DOH.

CLARIFICATION.

Listen all, I'm getting too het up about this, and your right, I know I shouldn't be.

So, just to help out all those for whom Xenon means NOTHING/Is not important, let me EXPLAIN something...

All Nokia handsets tend to have one thing on one handset, that another handset might not have...

An E51 being a great business phone, but no GPS... a 6220 being a solid feature rich phone in some respects, but without Wi-fi i another etc.

So indeed, through all of this, the end user simply has to choose the one CLOSEST to what he requires.

And in so doing, I could for example, elect to purchase say, a 6220 without Wi-fi, accepting that with an Unlimited Internet Plan already, this is not too great an issue for me.

So indeed, we have seen this all before.

[SIZE="5"]BUT...[/SIZE]

And it's a mighty big but...

What those who say "No Xenon is no great issue", or "just choose the one nearest to what you want then" are GROSSLY OVERLOOKING HERE, is that this is one aspect where things are different.

PLEASE - for those to who it matters, do not categorise "No Xenon" as being in the same boat as "No ilPayer, or no Wi-Fi etc".

You see, for those of us who use are phones heavily for photos too, Xenon is now an ESSENTIAL item.

And as such, it means that ALL phones that Nokia bring out are no use to us, as NONE have Xenon since the 6220 and N82.

That's the bit you all keep MISSING... whilst indeed, different features are nothing NEW for Nokia phones they release, there IS one NEW difference here, you all keep overlooking.

If Phone A is released, and does not have feature X that some people want, then don't panic, because not long after, phone B will be released, which WILL have feature X (but of course, dropping feature Y, that others prefer).

That's fair enough, that's called choice, and that is fine.

BUT WHAT YOU ALL OVERLOOK, is that having given us Feature Z all those years ago now (Xenon Flash), now Nokia have however brought out Phone A, Phone B, Phone C, Phone D, Phone E, Phone F and on and on and on, and NONE of them phones have feature Z (Xenon Flash).

That's the thing - this situation has NOT happened before.

It's all well and good telling us to "just choose something else then", but we HAVE NO CHOICE.

It's not like OTHER features on a phone, where if one phone doesn't have it, another new one released WILL.

That's the whole issue here... that Nokia are NOT releasing new phones with this feature, so we are NOT complaining that "I like the N97 but it has no Xenon, so I'll have to get the N86 that does have it instead" etc.

We are making a wholly NEW complaint here, not before seen with Nokia, that they are not releasing ANY new phone with Xenon.

Once you get your head round that, you'll THEN start to see why this is such an impassioned debate.

Because we are making a much more fundamental complaint - that NO new phones have a certain feature. Not just that the one phone we really like simply does not have a certain feature.

So, in simple terms, having given that admittedly small market segment of us something that we now see as essential, then by NOT including this on ANY future phones, Nokia have in plain terms, prevented us from upgrading to ANY new phone since, and will continue to hold us back, until they DO.

Is that so hard to understand, even if Xenon means nothing for you personally?