Jesus, calm down why don't you!
And stop the "lucky you don't work for Nokia" cr*p. You have your opinion, I have mine, let's leave it at that.
A Nokia N97 sort of day...
Christ someone lock, rename or move this thread. Vulcan has imploded under the weight of irrelevance.
Jesus christ.. cant believe a Xenon flash can get so many passions fired up..
pictures always look great when you shrink them in size (Flickr does not do pictures justice without full size and zooming into the pixels to check colour correction, signal to noise etc). Nor the fact that the Video recording hasnt gotten any better (640x480x30FPS in LOW BITRATE).
Samsung still wins with OMNIA HD with better everything in every department (except without the keyboard damn it)..
If they had indeed listened to what the people want - to have a Nokia phone that is 3D Accelerated, more competitive to the current and future market phones, better camera technologies and finally better usability.
In my opinion, they spent too much trying to invest into all this social networking crap on a phone. The N9x series is meant for power users - so give us what we want. Not crap with more social networking crap wrapped around it. Its the wrong market..
jonnybruha wrote:Well, as a matter of fact, they do share the same processors, with the exception of a higher clock speed and one being a single CPU instead of a dual CPU.As a matter of fact (actual fact based on real knowledge), the processors in the N95 and N97 are by different processor manufacturers (they use the same processor core architecture design licensed from ARM Ltd., but the chips are made by different companies in different factories). All Nokia phones (most phone manufacturer's phones, actually) use ARM based processors, but the actual chips can be from TI, STmicro, Freescale,...
I�d like to view a detachable xenon flash.
They did it before , ( pop-port ) , and i still own one from sony ( for t68 ) and one from siemens , ( for cx65 ) .
I don�t know what keeps nokia from releasing this absolute accesory that can be shared among various devices , ( economy scales ) , and let the user decide.
Greetings
N/A wrote:As a matter of fact (actual fact based on real knowledge), the processors in the N95 and N97 are by different processor manufacturers (they use the same processor core architecture design licensed from ARM Ltd., but the chips are made by different companies in different factories). All Nokia phones (most phone manufacturer's phones, actually) use ARM based processors, but the actual chips can be from TI, STmicro, Freescale,...
You're absolutely right, though my point still stands. I'll rephrase and say that they're still using the same 2-year old architechture when the competition is using newer components. Even so, the N97 is using the same processor as the E51, E71, and 5800XM (the Freescale MXC300-30). I was wrong to say that the N97 shares the N95's processor (the TI OMAP2420), but that doesn't mean the MXC300-30 is an expensive component. The ARM11 architecture, the OMAP2420, and the MXC300-30 are all 2 years old or more and are just as cheap if not cheaper than they were when the $300 E51 was released.
Up to a point, the actual architecture used by a phone doesn't matter, if there are no inherent limitations. The real test will come when the phone is launched; if its performance is poor because the components used are too old, then Nokia have messed up. If its performance is perfectly fine, and the price has been kept down through careful choice of components, then Nokia have made a wise decision. Only time will tell...
No its sure not underpowered. N97 uses the freescale from n86. here you can read about its cou.
http://www.arm.com/products/CPUs/ARM1136JF-S.html
and very important the pdf :
http://www.arm.com/miscPDFs/1751.pdf
the WORST clockspeed of 1136 is 400 mhz. and nokia clocked it to 434. because of saving battery i think. but they can clock it higher (like they done with 5800) in a fw update. cause the cpu can handle 700 mhz ! so i think n97 will never be underpowered. if it will be to slow nokia set the cpu speed simply higher.
and it has no gpu, but as you can see it has a fpu. so if someone makes for example quake games with fpu only support without the need of a gpu the game will definately faster. also the 1136 is featuring a co-cpu. which can mean, that this is a dedicated radio cpu just for the radio functions. and only the main cpu is used for the other things.
so i think 1136 isnt as bad as many thinks.
greetings ganxta. (co admin of s60-forum)
Unregistered wrote:No its sure not underpowered. N97 uses the freescale from n86. here you can read about its cou.
http://www.arm.com/products/CPUs/ARM1136JF-S.html
and very important the pdf :
http://www.arm.com/miscPDFs/1751.pdfthe WORST clockspeed of 1136 is 400 mhz. and nokia clocked it to 434. because of saving battery i think. but they can clock it higher (like they done with 5800) in a fw update. cause the cpu can handle 700 mhz ! so i think n97 will never be underpowered. if it will be to slow nokia set the cpu speed simply higher.
and it has no gpu, but as you can see it has a fpu. so if someone makes for example quake games with fpu only support without the need of a gpu the game will definately faster. also the 1136 is featuring a co-cpu. which can mean, that this is a dedicated radio cpu just for the radio functions. and only the main cpu is used for the other things.
so i think 1136 isnt as bad as many thinks.
greetings ganxta. (co admin of s60-forum)
Good argument, if you were talking about the components in the N97.
The 1136EJ-S (otherwise known as the 1176) supports everything you're talking about, but that's used in the Apple iPhone and iPod Touch (among other devices), NOT the N97. The 1136JF-S (note the difference) is what's being used in the N97 (and E51, E71, 5800XM, etc.,). The specific processor being used in those devices is the Freescale MXC300-30, which tops out at 532mhz, not 700mhz.
Do you have any articles or evidence to prove that Nokia really did increase the clock speed of the 5800XM through a firmware update?
can you tell me where you get this informations with the clock speeds from 1136JF-S? pls gimme a link.
http://www.techenclave.com/mobile-phones/nokia-5800-xm-firmware-update-20-a-129565.html
here for example i read from the higher clock speed.
and the 1136ej-s is much worse as the jfs.
http://pdadb.net/index.php?m=cpu&id=a1136ejs&c=arm_1136ej-s
from 2002. hmm. i believe that what the pdf told me. nothing else 😊.
iphones cpu btw is this ARM1176JZF with power vr gpu.
Unregistered wrote:can you tell me where you get this informations with the clock speeds from 1136JF-S? pls gimme a link.http://www.techenclave.com/mobile-phones/nokia-5800-xm-firmware-update-20-a-129565.html
here for example i read from the higher clock speed.
and the 1136ej-s is much worse as the jfs.
http://pdadb.net/index.php?m=cpu&id=a1136ejs&c=arm_1136ej-sfrom 2002. hmm. i believe that what the pdf told me. nothing else 😊.
Pay close attention to the Core column on this page. You can also follow the referenced articles to get back to the page that you linked. This page also shows that the 1136EJ(F)-S is the same part as the 1176JZ(F)-S used in the iPhone.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM11
REGARDLESS, the specific processor used in the N97 is the Freescale MXC300-30, which has a maximum clockspeed of 532mhz, NOT 700mhz, and does NOT support any hardware acceleration.
http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/site/prod_summary.jsp?code=MXC300-30&nodeId=01J4Fsm6cyDbFf
Compared to the OMAP3430, shit sux.
http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbuproductcontent.tsp?contentId=14649&navigationId=12643&templateId=6123
im not really experienced in cpu things. but i hope they put in the 1136ejfs instead the slower one. hope dies last. and if they dont well i dont really care. it seems to be fast enaugh. and if it isnt they can clock it till 532 mhz. i prefer a slower cpu which delivers enaugh power over a completely useless hd video function.
i8910 isnt good in video things. many frame drops and 6 times worse audio quality in videos since n97. no thanks. and we dont know if samsung will support the gpu in the future. maybe it will be as useless as in the 2420/30 devices. there are only a handful of games and apps.
both devices are good but both devices has their downsides too.
mfg ganxta.
What happened to AAS insight 70 ?, have been checking in all day in the hope of seeing it . . . .
Unregistered wrote:im not really experienced in cpu things. but i hope they put in the 1136ejfs instead the slower one. hope dies last. and if they dont well i dont really care. it seems to be fast enaugh. and if it isnt they can clock it till 532 mhz. i prefer a slower cpu which delivers enaugh power over a completely useless hd video function.i8910 isnt good in video things. many frame drops and 6 times worse audio quality in videos since n97. no thanks. and we dont know if samsung will support the gpu in the future. maybe it will be as useless as in the 2420/30 devices. there are only a handful of games and apps.
both devices are good but both devices has their downsides too.
mfg ganxta.
They're not going to change the processor at this stage in the game, nor are they going to issue a firmware update to increase the processor speed. They never have and the odds show that they never will. Either way, if performance is an issue, you'll see it when doing graphically-intensive things, which would be improved by 3D hardware acceleration, which cannot be added by firmware. I have a feeling it will be "fast enough" for a lot of people, but for the people who plan to game or power-use their phone, they're probably going to be disappointed.
And as far as the video is concerned, the HD recording seems to come out -okay- despite the drop of audio quality to maintain the resolution and frame rate. The advantage is that the i8910 can drop the quality to either the standard VGA (where the N97 maxes out) or even record in the higher resolution D1 (720x480) where audio compression won't be an issue.
I'm really not trying to fight with you or anyone about this. At the end of the day, I don't care what phone you buy. I just really want people to understand exactly what it means when Nokia uses these cheaper parts and charges and charges a ridiculous markup for it. People don't spend that kind of money every day, and if they spend it on something that's supposed to last a few years and it's performance barely makes it through 6 months, people are going to be pissed and Nokia will have their money anyway. I would've preordered the N97 when it was under $500 for that online glitch because that's a decent price for that phone at launch, but $700? Not a chance. I just don't see the value.
jonnybruha wrote:They're not going to change the processor at this stage in the game, nor are they going to issue a firmware update to increase the processor speed. They never have and the odds show that they never will. Either way, if performance is an issue, you'll see it when doing graphically-intensive things, which would be improved by 3D hardware acceleration, which cannot be added by firmware. I have a feeling it will be "fast enough" for a lot of people, but for the people who plan to game or power-use their phone, they're probably going to be disappointed.And as far as the video is concerned, the HD recording seems to come out -okay- despite the drop of audio quality to maintain the resolution and frame rate. The advantage is that the i8910 can drop the quality to either the standard VGA (where the N97 maxes out) or even record in the higher resolution D1 (720x480) where audio compression won't be an issue.
I'm really not trying to fight with you or anyone about this. At the end of the day, I don't care what phone you buy. I just really want people to understand exactly what it means when Nokia uses these cheaper parts and charges and charges a ridiculous markup for it. People don't spend that kind of money every day, and if they spend it on something that's supposed to last a few years and it's performance barely makes it through 6 months, people are going to be pissed and Nokia will have their money anyway. I would've preordered the N97 when it was under $500 for that online glitch because that's a decent price for that phone at launch, but $700? Not a chance. I just don't see the value.
Couldnt have said it better myself!
Well, so for all of you xenon lovers N82 hasn't been surpassed yet.. then good for you because you don't need to change phones!..
I myself prefer led based ones. LEDs have the potential to be brighter than xenon and I found that I use more often my phone as a flash light than I need to use the flash for photography, so LEDs are vastly superior for my preferences... And if there is something nokia should improve in their phones is the keypads ergonomics!! that really is something everyone uses often and is getting worse with each iteration. When I first bought a 5500 I thought the keypad was so, so.. now, after trying N82, N79 and N75 (just the keypad, not the qwerty) I really miss it :_(
Unregistered wrote:How ever you want to look at it. Some people like a Xenon flash!
But how many people don't like a Xenon flash? [....]
I don't like xenon flash and I chose N79 over N82 for that reason.. so at least count one 😊 My rationale is that I use more often my phone as a flashlight that I use the flash for night photography. And you can't beat LEDs at that 😊
The N97 uses a single device ( a OMAP2420 with 3D graphics, or 2431 without 3D) clocked at 434 MHz). The higher clock rate enables the chip to handle bot modem and application processor functions. The device is not a single ARM11 device, and Nokia has never used a Freescale device, such as the MXC300. It has a C55DSP for modem, and and the ARM11. The same 2420 was used also on the N95 (for the modem only) with another OMAP2420 and a co-processor (DMZ handling 5MP camera and H264 codec functions) . The OMAP2420 has 3D graphics accelerator, a C55DSP and a ARM11 in a single device.
XROCK
XROCK wrote:The N97 uses a single device ( a OMAP2420 with 3D graphics, or 2431 without 3D) clocked at 434 MHz). The higher clock rate enables the chip to handle bot modem and application processor functions. The device is not a single ARM11 device, and Nokia has never used a Freescale device, such as the MXC300. It has a C55DSP for modem, and and the ARM11. The same 2420 was used also on the N95 (for the modem only) with another OMAP2420 and a co-processor (DMZ handling 5MP camera and H264 codec functions) . The OMAP2420 has 3D graphics accelerator, a C55DSP and a ARM11 in a single device.XROCK
Bullcrap!
Why on earth would they have put another SoC for just modem? The dual core prolly refers to the rap3g cellular cpu. There's just one Arm 11 core on n95.
Actually n97 uses freescales MXC300. They switched away from ti after n95 and n85.
here is the diagram of similar chip (n97 uses different revision)
Here's another for features:
http://www.freescale.com/files/wireless_comm/doc/fact_sheet/MXC30030FS.pdf?fpsp=1&WT_TYPE=Fact%20Sheets&WT_VENDOR=FREESCALE&WT_FILE_FORMAT=pdf&WT_ASSET=Documentation
For comparison here's diagram of n95's ti omap 2420:
="http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbuproductcontent.tsp?templateId=6123&navigationId=11990&contentId=4671"[/URL]
which is actually more powerfull than the 2 years younger n97's SoC.
I guess that the freescale chip was the cheapest one out there to get the job done - omap 2430 would have been much better choise though
keljuK wrote:Bullcrap!
Why on earth would they have put another SoC for just modem? The dual core prolly refers to the rap3g cellular cpu. There's just one Arm 11 core on n95.Actually n97 uses freescales MXC300. They switched away from ti after n95 and n85.
here is the diagram of similar chip (n97 uses different revision)Here's another for features:
http://www.freescale.com/files/wireless_comm/doc/fact_sheet/MXC30030FS.pdf?fpsp=1&WT_TYPE=Fact%20Sheets&WT_VENDOR=FREESCALE&WT_FILE_FORMAT=pdf&WT_ASSET=DocumentationFor comparison here's diagram of n95's ti omap 2420:
="http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbuproductcontent.tsp?templateId=6123&navigationId=11990&contentId=4671"[/URL]
which is actually more powerfull than the 2 years younger n97's SoC.
I guess that the freescale chip was the cheapest one out there to get the job done - omap 2430 would have been much better choise though
close, but I think it uses a slightly different version of the MXC300-30
http://www.freescale.com/files/wireless_comm/doc/fact_sheet/MXC300301FS.pdf
Main difference is the different DSP to support HSDPA 3.6Mbps vs 1.8Mbps, but it's more recent than the original, so maybe there are other features that makes it less sucky? didn't do the feature comparison, as this whole ARM SoC thing is new to me. The marketing papers definitely look different.