Fight of the year turns into unsightly rout: N97 vs Touch Pro 2

Bias! 😛

Stopped using Windows mobile a long time ago, Symbian beats it in all areas in my book, same with the Palm UI too for that matter.

I've not seen the HTC Touch Pro 2 outside of mobile events, so I've not spent any significant time with it. That said this is some of my thoughts / opinion on it.

HTC have come a long, long way and should now be considered one of the primary players in the smartphone space. In that light I expect them to be producing best of breed solutions. They do some great innovation (in both software and hardware), and I think the Touch Diamond II and Touch Pro II are examples of leading edge Windows Mobile devices.

I was really impressed with the quality of the hardware compared to earlier HTC devices. They keyboard is a step up from previous flat keyboards and the overall materials and build quality is decent. There's still room for improvement and it is a shame the multimedia hardware still feels under powered (camera, audio etc) - not what I expect on a �500 device. If you want strong multimedia - avoid HTC it seems (look at Sasmung for better WM multimedia). I still think there's an issue around completeness and durability, but without trying it out for a longer period its not really fair for me to comment on this in detail.

I'm not sure I would be so anti TouchFlo as Steve. The Touch Pro 2 has made further improvements and refinements, but I do agree it is jars when you transition out of it. I also feel that sometimes the design / style has too much of an edge over usability. On the other hand some of the ideas in it are excellent - I especially like the idea of being about to access communication history (calls, texts, emails) with a single contact easily. The promotion of certain email to the top of your inbox is a clever (if obvious idea) too.

I guess TouchFlo is the sticking point here - either you like it or you don't. In my opinion it significantly improves the Windows Mobile experience, but does result in a kludge that can makes things inconsistent for those coming to Windows Mobile for the first time.

The biggest point in favour of the N97 is the (relative) completeness and consistency of both the hardware and software package out of the box (especially for a consumer). So I think as a consumer the N97 is a stronger choice, but for enterprise users its a more even match, given the popularity of Microsoft solutions in that environment.

Great Post Rafe. Your opinion sounds very, very objective. I am a Nokia fan too, but Steve's article sounds more like one of a Nokia Fanboy.

It really is refreshing to see, and read something positive about the latest NSeries device, the N97. There are so many negative reviews out there, with most missing the whole concept of the device, and even comparing it to something that should not even come in to the conversation. The N97, to me, personally, is the ideal device for me. Thats my own reference. Agreed, the N97 is not for everyone, and is not aimed at Business users, but is aimed at Social Media Network types, just like myself.

Im sure Nokia will no doubt release another new, more powerful device later this year, which will take the Flagship title away from the N97.

While we are talking of the N97, I would just like to mention, my UK Pre-Order has just been confirmed to be in stock, and being processed for delivery 😊

Now that's what I'm talking about... objectivity! 😊

Great review Steve, a sensible comparison of two phones with the same form factor, occupying similar positions in the smartphone market.

Much more in the vein of what I believe AAS stands and let's see it continue.

malerocks wrote:Great Post Rafe. Your opinion sounds very, very objective. I am a Nokia fan too, but Steve's article sounds more like one of a Nokia Fanboy.

Thanks though I think Steve point is valid, I was trying to put across a different perspective.

Given the price tag, the multimedia hardware deficiencies and Touch Flo integration issue (not Touch Flo itself) is enough to stop me recommending this phone (unless you want WM).

morpheus2702 wrote:Now that's what I'm talking about... objectivity! 😊

Great review Steve, a sensible comparison of two phones with the same form factor, occupying similar positions in the smartphone market.

Much more in the vein of what I believe AAS stands and let's see it continue.

Thanks morpheus - we've got more of this sort of thing planned, subject to hardware availability.

Well, having had an N97 on preorder for the last few weeks, I cancelled it this morning, and am seriously considering the Touch Pro2. Why? Because I discovered yesterday that the editing version of QuickOffice for S60 5ed isn't ready yet, and QuickOffice themselves couldn't give me any idea when it might appear, other than "soon", which in IT can mean anything up to a year or more. I need to replace a Palm Treo 650, and I need mobile spreadsheets that work properly out of the box, not as an upgrade at some undisclosed future date. For Nokia to be launching a device with a QWERTY keyboard that doesn't support Office doc editing at launch is a serious mistake, IMO. It also seems that there are quite a few apps for S60 3ed that won't work on the N97 (such as Mobipocket, another one I need immediately) - I'm not quite as convinced by the idea that S60 5ed is a stable platform with full third-party support yet, so I'm going to hold off and see what happens.

the htc touch phones are very well made. diamond, diamond II are beautiful devices.
and their qwerty ones are excellent too - WinMo lets them down, hopefully 7 will improve things. Touch Flo does its best but its always going to be a layer.

now stick android on that bad boy and see something magical. Though android really needs a capacitive screen, mind you both these would fair better that tech.

oh yes and sadly EVERY htc phone has a terrible camera - they just dont seem to get that bit right.

Rafe wrote:Thanks though I think Steve point is valid, I was trying to put across a different perspective.

Given the price tag, the multimedia hardware deficiencies and Touch Flo integration issue (not Touch Flo itself) is enough to stop me recommending this phone (unless you want WM).

These should also have been included in the comparison.

spl wrote:Because I discovered yesterday that the editing version of QuickOffice for S60 5ed isn't ready yet, and QuickOffice themselves couldn't give me any idea when it might appear, other than "soon", which in IT can mean anything up to a year or more.

Rafe's crystal ball says it will a lot less than a year. In fact I think I can say it will appear in a month that has a J in its name.

spl wrote:Well, having had an N97 on preorder for the last few weeks, I cancelled it this morning, and am seriously considering the Touch Pro2. Why? Because I discovered yesterday that the editing version of QuickOffice for S60 5ed isn't ready yet, and QuickOffice themselves couldn't give me any idea when it might appear, other than "soon", which in IT can mean anything up to a year or more. I need to replace a Palm Treo 650, and I need mobile spreadsheets that work properly out of the box, not as an upgrade at some undisclosed future date. For Nokia to be launching a device with a QWERTY keyboard that doesn't support Office doc editing at launch is a serious mistake, IMO. It also seems that there are quite a few apps for S60 3ed that won't work on the N97 (such as Mobipocket, another one I need immediately) - I'm not quite as convinced by the idea that S60 5ed is a stable platform with full third-party support yet, so I'm going to hold off and see what happens.

Rafe wrote:Rafe's crystal ball says it will a lot less than a year. In fact I think I can say it will appear in a month that has a J in its name.

i hate windows mobile 6.1 but i think you should also consider the fact that many people will be running a cooked windows 6.5 rom which significantly improves finger friendliness and should improve the touch pro 2 experience. and i think an official rom should be available for it too.

just think this should be taken into consideration

I selected the Touch Pro 2 to replace my E90, I would never consider using a WM device for personal entertainment; the N97 would easily beat most business devices when it comes to entertainment. If you use many of the 3rd party shells for WM, you see that the form factor of the Touch Pro 2 is superb for business use and the call quality is on par with Nokia. Battery life nearly as good as the E90.

@jah (and others). Yes, I appreciate that power geeks will take the TP2 and do wonder with it, cooked 6.5 ROMs from the XDA site, third party launchers, the works - and I admire them for it.

But I generally like comparing the devices in the hands of 'normal' users. That's certainly what I'm doing here.

I have an E90, and absolutely love it. However, a friend of mine has the HTC Touch Pro, and the keyboard on the Touch Pro is definitely better, even though it's smaller. I don't know much about HTC's hardware quality, but my friend's Touch Pro is immaculate after a year of ownership, so I would not anticipate any problems with the Touch Pro 2.

Hi.

For the N97, what does "Quickoffice viewers (editing version due shortly)" exactly mean? Free or do we have to pay when it is available.

The Touch Pro2 will get an offical os update to WM6.5.

@Steve, remember HTC have positioned the Touch Pro 2 as a 'business device' not a multi-media device. I don't use cooked ROMs, just 3rd applications like SPB Shell which is quick and much better then Touch Flo 3D. I actually cancelled by N97 order based on your view that the keyboard on the N97 was not as good as the E90's and the Touch Pro is better than the E90 in my view.

Wow, finally a mobile OS that's messed up even more than the Symbian v5! Quite a feat!

now that I've had my N97 for a few days .. I'm getting that deja vu feeling .. I think that this is the new N95. Now remember how bad that was early on. Well the N97 isn't as bad - the battery life is pretty darn good, but the screen sensitivity needs improving & the GPS needs to lock faster. But just like with the N95 we know that firmware will improve these things.
I'm looking at the battery moans coming from the i8910 camp and going whew! glad I didn't spring for that instead.

I'm a huge symbian fan, and even had one of the original Psions. I've had a love/hate relationship with WM, and generally hate the lack of stability and user-friendliness of older models. I think S60 is still the best non-touchscreen OS, but in terms of versatility and power, it doesn't come close to WM. In particular when comparing the 5th edition, it just doesn't compare. For one, there isn't nearly as many applications for S60 as there are for WM. Maybe OVI will change this, but I doubt it in the short term. While I loved my E71 and Innov8, my HD and Touch Pro 2 put them to shame in terms of power and versatility. Now if you're talking about camera, then no comparison...the Innov8 was great and WM machines generally are terrible (although the HD's camera was actually quite good).

I placed my pre-order for my N97 a while ago, and even a deposit. But after playing around with both models, I gave up my deposit on the N97 and bought the TP2. Reasons:

1. Screen: no comparison. TP2 has a beautiful screen, great resolution and sensitivity. Forget the colors displayed issue, in real life usage the TP2 is much better.
2. Browsing: with new Opera, I can finally say browsing is faster and better on the TP2. I've always loved the Nokia browser, but it can't match opera on WM and with the hardware difference, browsing is faster on the WM. Better resolution also makes a definite difference. The zoom bar also makes browsing much smoother than on the N97. I use the web a lot, and TP2 wins hands down.
3. Keyboard: I think there is a consensus in this matter that the TP2 is better.
4. Interface: I'm a huge fan of S60 simplicity of user-friendliness, but it's just not as customizable and robust as WM. There are what, 6 panels on the start screen with no options for more pages? With WM, there is an incredible array of launch screens allowing much more comprehensive access to important information. The visuals on the Touch Flo are also much more sophisticated, and the transitions and effects are great eye-candy...the TP2 displays all this with aplomb, whereas the N97 doesn't even have that.
5. Processor and memory: the N97 definitely isn't as slow as many people have said when they found out the processor speed...it's fine in general use. Having said that, when things get going it does slow down and the memory does get used up. That is an annoyance in everyday life including viewing multimedia.

I really liked the N97...it's a nice looking phone and good build. Hell, I put down the deposit! But I realized that the only reasons that were logical for me to buy the N97 were it's better camera, and my general affection towards Symbian and Nokia phones. But the truth is the N97 is only better as a touch screen "phone". Symbian 5th simply can't compete in terms of interface, versatility and programs to WM and the iPhone (and Android I assume although I have to say I haven't tried it). At this point I can't help but feel Symbian is like a more robust version of S-class(LG) and TouchWiz(Samsung), which also both have more robust hardware now (check out the new Samsung Jet...blurring the lines of feature/smartphone).

Also, I must say this is perhaps the most incomplete and rushed"Head to Head" I've read in ages. No actual analysis of the interface and abilities, nor the hardware. The TP2's Straight Talk feature and speaker phone hardware wasn't mentioned at all...for those of you who aren't familiar, it allows you to conduct a conversation on the speakerphone in a noisy environment without being distorted...it "cancels" out noise. Pretty nifty if you ask me!

Having used both phones, I can say that the N97 is still a good phone. It's perfectly adequate and I would've enjoyed using it if I took my order. But to say it crushes the TP2 is ridiculous...it only crushes the TP2 in the camera department, I'm afraid. Besides, the idea of the N97 is also what computers have become...and if that were the measuring stick, the TP2 takes the prize hands down.

On a side note, if the E72 or one of the non-touchscreen S60 phones had WVGA resolution instead of the way out-dated QVGA, I'd be lining up with my money. As for the N97, I have to say I'm very happy with no regrets with my decision to forfeit my deposit and pick up the TP2.

Just my two cents on this "head-to-head" and an alternative view!

Appreciate everyones views, I am upgrading now and can't decide between the two phones. I was leaning towards the Pro2 but this article has made me pause.

I am coming from a Storm so anything seems like an upgrade !

😊

Messa

One more thing just want to mention...for a real head-to-head, why isn't processor speed, 3D hardware acceleration, and RAM mentioned? These are vital statistics to phones, and departments in which the TP2 wins in all categories.

maitrepoulet wrote:One more thing just want to mention...for a real head-to-head, why isn't processor speed, 3D hardware acceleration, and RAM mentioned? These are vital statistics to phones, and departments in which the TP2 wins in all categories.

Processor speed? Completely irrelevant. I've got a dozen older phones/PDAs with vastly slower clock speeds which all work faster than either of these devices.

Hardware graphics acceleration? Yes, important for gaming, though not relevant in this case as the N97's lousy for 3D games and the TP2 isn't designed/aimed for them either. And it doesn't change the experience in all the main applications one jot.

RAM? Yes, more relevant, though because the two OS use their RAM in different ways and to different degrees, it's not *that* a meaningful comparator. However, yes, you're right, it's worth adding... I've now sent the TP2 back, but will try and dig up a figure for free RAM later..... [can someone look this up, please?] Neither device seemed to hit RAM limits in 'normal' use though....

slitchfield wrote:Processor speed? Completely irrelevant. I've got a dozen older phones/PDAs with vastly slower clock speeds which all work faster than either of these devices.

Hardware graphics acceleration? Yes, important for gaming, though not relevant in this case as the N97's lousy for 3D games and the TP2 isn't designed/aimed for them either. And it doesn't change the experience in all the main applications one jot.

RAM? Yes, more relevant, though because the two OS use their RAM in different ways and to different degrees, it's not *that* a meaningful comparator. However, yes, you're right, it's worth adding... I've now sent the TP2 back, but will try and dig up a figure for this later..... Neither device seemed to hit RAM limits in 'normal' use though....

Completely irrelevant? C'mon...this is a tech review site. We're not talking about other devices are we? THAT's irrelevant. We're talking about the N97 and TP2. Forget other devices. Tell me, which one is faster? Just answer that. We're well aware that different OS have different processor requirements, but no need to brush off something that is NOT irrelevant in a "head-to-head" review. If that's the case, why even bother doing a head-to-head, TP2 isn't even Symbian based.

Hardware graphics acceleration...irrelevant again in your opinion. It's not about gaming, that's not why it was put into the TP2. But I guess that's why Nokia took out all the transition effects in the N97. I guess transition effects are meaningless since this is a "phone" and technically any 3D or graphical touch ups are meaningless. Oh, and N-gage is meanignless on the N97 as well, since it's lousy for 3D gaming.

I'm a long-time Symbian user, and I have to say the response and review is ridiculous. It's good I didn't make my decision on whether to forfeit my deposit on the N97 on this subjective trash.

Because processor speed/RAM/3D Accel is not related to usability as much as the OS is. WinMo REQUIRES that much RAM. S60 doesn't. WinMo requires high processor speed to maintain usability. S60 doesn't.

And the end user forming more than 80% of the market probably doesn't care about that.

First of all, completely agree with maitrepoulet, but would like to add some points:
6. The array of software solutions for WM is much richer, more functional, sometimes even no counterpart, then for S60, just no comparisons in all areas (editing documents, dictionaries, graphics etc. etc.).
7. Some things just don't exist (at least yet) in S60 - native Skype, ability to listen wma based internet radio, native remote desktop, ability to use global proxy for all programs. Here one can mention the wast amount of navigation solutions, that much better then OVI maps, google maps and for some parts of the world are the only solutions (IGO, destinator etc.).
"4". The key point of interface for WM is that you can chose and use any kind, which suits you, there are just unlimited choices. And you can make ALL WM menus to be finger-friendly (like in IPHONE).
"5". "Having said that, when things get going it does slow down and the memory does get used up. That is an annoyance in everyday life including viewing multimedia."
The same thing happens in all multitask devices, including s60 based.