An iPhone 3GS user trials the Nokia N86 8MP

This was a pretty good article. Factual and without the usual AAS Symbian slant (still no mention of the Goldman Sachs article about hard times for Nokia) or bias. As a user of both the N86 and the iPhone 3GS, I can agree with this article completely. The N86 is a great phone that Nokia does not seem to be promoting very hard. It is miles away more reliable and usable than the N97 (the bug machine), and with a few more software upgrades the N86 could easily replace the N82 as the best camera phone on the market. The iPhone has come a long way since version one and it will continue to get better despite Apple and their sometimes stupid ways. I am constantly torn which phone to use on a daily basis. Either phone is a great buy.

Good comparising of qualities . What about the price/quality relation ?

😊 Regards jApi NL

I would say the price to performance is about equal. The N86 is going for about �480 in some places with the iPhone more or less the same (unlocked). So you take your chances and see what you get. I like both phones. If I did not have either, I would be happy with either minus the other. Like I said, I am happy and conflicted on some days when I do not know which to choose because either way, I will take a great phone with me. Hopefully Nokia will learn from this (not) and make their next flagship phone (N97 is not even close) along the lines of the N86 in terms of quality and function.

Nokia have not seem to be bothered pushing the sales up of the n86 since its been released as i think they get embarrased using the n85 body an just improving the camera ,the cheap way out,they did not seem interested in the 8 or 12 mega-pixel camera race,but thats a big mistake nokia as made,the n86 buttons an speakers are really odd,the buttons on the front are to small an that deters people getting the n86,then the biggest mistake the speakers on just one side,so no stereo sound when held in your hand,why couldn"t nokia have put 3 speakers on the n86 so in your hand you get the sound like the n95 8gb,then when using the stand up clip on the bench or stand the other gets turned off,so hope in stugarrat we see something better from nokia

Unregistered - I'm glad you enjoyed the article.

You are more than welcome to get in touch direct with me and give more specific feedback than the 'usual general bias'. Or indeed comment directly here.

I would point out that this site is called All About Symbian so you will find Symbian focused information here, though maybe that's not what you mean by slant?

I imagine the reason the N86 has not be given a major push is that it is not considered a big seller potential. There's a big difference between technical excellence (of most interest to mobile geeks) and sales performance (generally much more price sensitive).

For those who are wondering, like I did, what the Goldman Sachs article referred to in the comment above is I think the commenter is referring to recent guidance that saw Goldman Sachs change its opinion on Nokia shares from a conviction buy to neutral (see here and here.

The opinion is primarily based on concerns around Nokia's high end portfolio, together with the effect of high end performance for brand image in the mid tier. It is worth observing that the Goldman note is a short term view. This note will get attention because Goldman Sachs is obviously a big name in investment banking.

This argument is not new and we've said repeatedly that Nokia is not performing well at the high end, especially if you draw a comparison to Apple.

Personally I think there too much focus on the high end (although this is where the profits are, which is of interest to short term and therefore share price, but is not directly linked to strategic strength), under estimates the mid tier space with regards to smartphones and ignores that none of Nokia's competitors has the same scope nor scale / reach in its service strategy (I guess the issue is that, in the short term, it will not realise significant profit from this).

Generally we don't post that often on analyst opinion stuff. Analysts do have a magic crystal ball - generally they have only a little more information (it at all) than that which is available publicly (which is why you sometimes get some very wacky predictions). Like any argument / opinion it is worth listening to anyone, but you have to make your own judgments on its validity.

I would also note that company stock performance does not always directly correlate with overall company performance (especially over longer periods).

Still I guess the downgrade to neutral makes a change from the Nokia is doomed story line!

I checked the prices in my country , for an unlocked ( not operater depending ) devices .
Results :
Nokia N86 : €384 - €490
http://tweakers.mobi/pricewatch/233295
Apple iPhone 3GS : € 804 - €1089
http://tweakers.mobi/pricewatch/241517

😊 Regards jApi NL

Rafe, nice to see you getting a bit angry/frustrated - and rightly so. 😊

viipottaja wrote:Rafe, nice to see you getting a bit angry/frustrated - and rightly so. 😊

Heh. Maybe I should get out the wrong side of bed more often.

It seems this is my side out of the bed today . Maybe iPhones are dumped on the market , to Operators costs :
http://us.mobile.reuters.com/m/FullArticle/p.rdt/CTECH/ntechnologyNews_uUSTRE57G3MX20090817
Is there a winner ?

😊 Regards jApi NL

"There's is no doubt in my mind that the N86 is the best all round photo and video capture smartphone currently available"

Do you know that mobile-review, phonearena and gsmarena are using the Omnia HD as a benchmark when it comes to camera phones?

Rafe,

I do not believe its your role to be commenting on broker research (be it Goldman or Merrill or whoever) as brokers are concerned about share price action and this has little relationship with the focus here, which really is Symbian (be it Nokia / Samsung /Sony or whoever).

I really think you should be telling unregistered that he's going to the wrong forum if he's looking for this.

On another note, I was looking at the quarterly smartphone sales numbers, and Nokia lost significant market share, but actual sales only feld 2% Y-o-Y. This means the Smartphone market has increased while Nokia has held on, but had not increased sales. Its completely not a surprise, 40% of smartphone sales were in touch and given in Q2, the only touch device available for Nokia / Symbian was 5800, and 2 weeks of N97 sales.

There are interesting regional differences to those numbers though.

"I found the camera controls tricky." Now correct me if I can't read, but didn't the article state that this individual was an experienced Nseries user? And as such, they would surely know that the camera control options haven't been changed for the last 3+ years, and he would be familiar with them by now. That is what he was talking about, right?

"I can't understand why I was not able to start, stop and pause video capture with the dual-slider buttons." Come on. I think that iPhone really killed some brain cells. There's no record symbol anywhere on any of those media buttons, not to mention the fact that they're called media buttons, not video recording buttons. You use them to play medua, not to record videos with them. The camera shutter button is what you use to record/capture everything. I hate repeating myself but I thought this guy was an experienced Nseries user?? He talks about the N95 like he owned one, and if he did he would know that even that didn't make use of the media buttons for video recording. No devices have. Why would Nokia start now all of a sudden, and then not mark it with any symbols?

Maybe its just me, maybe I've read way too many Apple fanboy comments on Nokia articles where they say things, just to say something bad about Nokia, but I get the same feeling here. I was really starting to think maybe this guy would dump his iPhone for the N86. I guess certain things about it just don't make enough sense and isn't simple enough to use.

All that aside, I strongly agree with him that this should have been the N96, but with a 2.8" display, and more memory. It would most definitely have been a winner. I really wanted to get this phone, especially since I loved my N95 and saw this as the closest thing to a perfect upgrade I was going to get, but I couldn't resist the N97. Maybe I'll get the best of all three worlds eventually. 3.5"+ touchscreen, QWERTY, and an 8MP+ camera.

Dear Unregistered,

"I found the camera controls tricky."
Sorry, I thought that the sentence that followed explained my reasoning quite clearly. In this instance I was referring to the mechanical action of the shutter button, I was not referring to the "Camera control options". Perhaps I should have made this clearer.

"I can't understand why I was not able to start, stop and pause video capture with the dual-slider buttons."
I wasn't suggesting for one minute that the printed symbols on the dual-slider buttons suggested to me that I should be able to perform such actions, rather I was saying that this really ought to be the case seeing as how I could zoom in and out with them.

"Maybe its just me, maybe I've read way too many Apple fanboy comments on Nokia articles where they say things, just to say something bad about Nokia, but I get the same feeling here."
I'm sorry that you get that feeling, it was certainly not my intention. I fully understand that my daily smartphone usage may require a different kind of device than yours, but as was made clear right from the outset, this was my personal opinion. Just because I have a different opinion from someone else, it doesn't make me a fanboy, it just means I have a different opinion, nothing more, nothing less.

"I was really starting to think maybe this guy would dump his iPhone for the N86. I guess certain things about it just don't make enough sense and isn't simple enough to use."
"This guy" (my name was at the bottom of the article!) will not be dumping his iPhone for the N86 because what I really need is a pocket computer rather than a smart phone, and right now Nokia don't make one of those.

That's not to say that the N86 isn't tempting, it certainly is, and I'll be on the look out for one to replace my ageing N95.

Kind regards,
James

If only they would hurry up and release the new iphod touch, then I would gladly enjoy both worlds (N86 and touchscreen)

@yitwave & rafe,

I disagree a bit. For me AAS is an information repository. I see nothing wrong with Rafe pointing out info other than tutorials, or reviews. I think the info about Nokia is very relevant. Not necessarily from a shareholder point of view but from the view that Nokia, a brand that we like, is coming under hard times and as the article said, much of the damage is self-inflicted. This is big news to me as it can determine what Nokia will do next. It also brings us to the point of how are the sales, and recall figures for the N97 which is supposed to be a flagship phone but is clearly lacking in that department. For me, the article comparing the N86 and iPhone are connected to the internal Nokia problems because we see a competitor to Nokia coming on strongly while Nokia seems to be stuck in stasis. Maybe I am reading to much into things but I think AAS should report news of this sort to present an over all pictures.

My $.02.

Nokia sold 8.9m smartphones (countless models) in EMEA, 7% down in one year, Apple sold 1.9m (1 model), 900% up. Enough said.

A similar effect can be seen on the N97. It seems much better than on the N95 where saving then scaling seemed the better choice. The Nokia's jpeg compresses an image to about 1 MB. A zoomed image now actually benefits from the higher information density and hence more details and less artefacts for the area of interest than an unzoomed shot.

@ james
Pardon my ignorance but you stated that you wanted a pocket computer so you
choose the iphone? sorry but there is some sort of irony in that statement from
where im sitting. pocket computer = iphone? certainly not in MY opinion...
surely there must be other devices that truly fit the description "pocket computer"
same way that the iphone is catergorized as a "smartphone" when truly it isnt.
pocket computer = E71/E75
for me the iphone is a great "media device/entertainment device" id go as far as saying a true powerhouse in relation to media...but pocket computer? no. smartphone? no
i have used the iphone 3gs and as beautiful as it does things it really misses the spot
as a "smartphone/pocket computer"....media sensation? definitely.
thats just MY opinion but to each his own they say.

robertdh wrote:@ james
Pardon my ignorance but you stated that you wanted a pocket computer so you
choose the iphone? sorry but there is some sort of irony in that statement from
where im sitting. pocket computer = iphone? certainly not in MY opinion...
surely there must be other devices that truly fit the description "pocket computer"
same way that the iphone is catergorized as a "smartphone" when truly it isnt.
pocket computer = E71/E75
for me the iphone is a great "media device/entertainment device" id go as far as saying a true powerhouse in relation to media...but pocket computer? no. smartphone? no
i have used the iphone 3gs and as beautiful as it does things it really misses the spot
as a "smartphone/pocket computer"....media sensation? definitely.
thats just MY opinion but to each his own they say.

Why would you not see it as a pocket computer? I certainly see my iPod touch that way.

I can use email, instant messaging, web browse, compose documents run applications such as games, dictionaries and calculators.

I can do much the same things on my N95, I prefer to use my touch at home and the phone for work.

Unregistered wrote:Nokia sold 8.9m smartphones (countless models) in EMEA, 7% down in one year, Apple sold 1.9m (1 model), 900% up. Enough said.

It is not enough to be so simplistic. It's far easier to increase a low number than it is to maintain a high one. Nokia sold more units than apple by over 400%. Long way to go yet.

I disagree with Rafe's idea that Nokia's trouble with the high-end segment of the market affects it only on the short term.
A phone manufacturer's lineup is like a pipeline. Advanced features introduced in high-end handsets over time trickle down, as they become less and less expensive to implement, to mid-tiers, and eventually to low-end phones. A 5MPx camera was something unheard of when it was introduced in the N95, and yet nowadays it has become a standard feature in all N-series phones. As a matter of fact, the feature set of the N95 has shaped most of the current Nokia mid-tier smartphone lineup. The problem facing Nokia today is that the high-end portion of the pipeline is empty. Quite honestly, I wouldn't consider the "flagship" N97 high-end, but rather mid-tier. And this situation has dire long-term consequences. Which of the current "flagships" will mold Nokia's future mid-tier offering? There are no obvious candidates.
When did Motorola start to implode? If you ask the average joe, he'll tell you when the company started posting huge losses and losing marketshare. But many analysts detected the impending collapse much sooner, namely shortly after the release of the RAZR, when the company decided to stop innovating and instead focused on releasing variations and small updates on the RAZR design.
I think Nokia finds itself today in a situation similar to the one in which Motorola was a few years ago. Yes, the N95 was a big success, but since then every N-series released has been a rehash of it. Nokia is a much bigger company than Motorola, so it will take much longer for it to arrive to the same sorry state in which Moto is today. This buys them more time to change course, but, unless they do, they're headed on the same self-destructive path. I believe Goldman-Sachs are reacting to this, and not some short-term performance concerns.
In fairness, the rationales that brought Nokia and Motorola to stop innovating were very different. In Motorola's case, it was pure irresponsibility: they truly believed that they could sell RAZRs indefinitely. In Nokia's case, there was the belief that a set of successful and well-integrated set of services would make up for lacklustre hardware. However, it's time for Nokia to realize that, with a single exception (Maps), Ovi services have been a colossal failure. It would be great if it managed to salvage some of its services, but now it's now time to start again designing compelling hardware.

@rvirga,

I applaud your post. It was right on the money. To think that Nokia's problems are short term is to miss the point that just about every phone for the last few years is simply a rehash of another phone. Nokia used to set the standard but now they are becoming also rans. Yes, they can bleed market share for a year or so but eventually it will catch up to them. While the iPhone may not break technological ground it does break new ground in user experience and ease of operation. This has nothing to do with multi-tasking as the iPhone really does not need to multi-task as it is not a biz phone. The few apps that Apple allow to multi-task: Mail, iPod, Mobile Safari all work flawless with little or no notice to the user. Nokia's N97 flagship cannot say the same. The phone is lacking in so many ways and shows that Nokia decided to build it on the cheap and hope that consumers would not notice. I would be interested to see the return rate on the N97. Ovi is basically, too little, too late. Love them or hate them again Apple set the standard with their App Store. The integration of the store and iTunes has proven to be an unbeatable combination.

Hi guys,
I am just wondering if any users of N86 ever notice of phone getting heated up after a certain amount of usage?
This is what I noticed on my phone doing some tinkering on the setting.
I also happen to own an iphone 3GS & it gets heated up to if you serve the net or play games. No where as bad as the N86.
Thank you.

The one event that caused Motorola to stop innovating was the untimely death of the fellow who designed the razr, after that they kinda fell in a heap.

robertdh, the 3GS is a pocket computer more powerfull than anything has at the moment. Period.

Apple does limit its potential, but with a 10 minute easy process you can untap all its potential (jailbreaking)...then it does anything you want...without slowdowns or memory problems

Is that the WElsh Hawking Centre ????

it would be nice to see nokia bring out firmware that does not compress the photos after you take them, and it would be nice to an image stabalizer in the still photo compartment in the next firmware!