Sticky tape, Sharpies, Copper Wire and Plectrums - WTF

I couldn't agree more, but i think you should add to that all the applications we're busy installing to make the phone run better/smoother/faster/more efficient - some of them we're having to pay for too 😡

There is only one language Nokia understand Dave. It's not Finnish, and it's not English. It's the language of sales... money, moolah, dough, pounds, dollars, bucks, dosh.

I am resigned to my N97 and it's faults now. I've used the tape on the back of the lens cover because I can't spend any more time chasing them or waste any more hope that they will solve the problem.

I have decided to avoid the N900, primarily because of my experience with the N97 hardware. No more phones in the first 3 months, no more dodgy firmware, no more design faults that are ignored.

Not for me anyway.

I can deal with having to install stuff to tweak my "user experience" the way I want it.

Agreed, threaded SMS and control of keylocks and lights should be built in. But ultimately that's preference and I've always expected to tweak the OS (anybody remember powertoys for Win95) to get what I want - be it Windows or Symbian. That's half the fun.

But this is low level failure on behalf of Nokia. The lens cover does not work. The GPS does not work. The flash does not work. I'm happy to concede that for some N97s these core components of the phone work fine, but for whatever reason the manufacturing processes of this phone have the tolerances/QA/whatever all wrong and a (seemingly quite high) number of devices slip through the (large holed) net.

I don't consider it acceptable that Nokia "repair" these devices under warranty. If I bought a new car/stereo/tv/[insert random consumer device] and a fundamental part of it didn't "work as advertised" so soon into ownership I would return it and get a replacement. Not a repair (no device is ever the same after a repair). Not a refurb (ooh tempting - NOT). A shiny new replacement.

I'm not done on this subject. I may be a little bit ranty. I love the N97 in principle. I've got high hopes for the v2 firmware but I'm very very disappointed with the aftersales care provided by Nokia and I'm likely to keep rambling on about this subject until Nokia take ownership of the intrinsic problems with this device and resolve them properly...

p.s. Sorry for the essay 😉

@Celios
Don't give up now. Email them. Phone them. Get a plane to Finland and sit on their doorstep until they replace your phone. Don't accept shoddy hardware just because it's too much like hard work to get Nokia to do it right... That just tells them they can keep doing it wrong...

hhhmmmmm well ..... it's half the fun if you know what you're doing, and it's half the fun if you know what you're looking for - i've needed a lot of help with this phone getting it up to a good operating system when i believe that at least half of the applications i've added should have been standard.

grumble gumble grumble

I'll give you that one.

If you're somebody who doesn't want to tweak your device to get things "just so" then the N97 is probably not fun.

Maybe the 2.0 firmware will help... *crosses fingers*

Could't agree more, I have never been so disappointed with my purchase in life.
And most prob this is gonna be last nokia, thanks god i never had camera issue but GPS is just awful.
Nokia should have advanced in technology not backwards, N95 used to give better naviagtion that this So called "Flagship". Fw is so laggy, have to close 1 app to open another, I can't afford to send the ph back at the moment and fight with them to send a new one then refub one, i will wait for my local nokia care point to get N97 part and change antenna.
Come on Nokia, get your act together. 1000's of your loyal customer can't be wrong.😡

lol!

I reposted my original post in this thread on the Nokia discussion forums (just for the fun like) and I'm getting told off again for not being positive enough 😉

http://discussions.europe.nokia.com/discussions/board/message?board.id=smartphones&thread.id=162652

Free speech really is frowned upon over there.... thanks heavens for AAS!

Dave, you may never WANT to buy another Nokia phone ever again .... but i don't think they'll sell you one anyway :laugh:

Well, I'm going to go out on a limb here....

I'm as happy as larry with my N97. I have no lens issue, no GPS issue, no flash issue....not a chuffin' thing! 😉

And it's not just this phone. The N97 is my 6th Symbian device. I started with the 7650 then moved through 6600, 6680, N73 & N95. All of these devices had owners with issues, and I never suffered from them. Am I just incredibly lucky??

I'll admit that with the N73, N95 & N97 there have been early firmware bugs but those get sorted out fairly swiftly. It's the price you pay for being an early adopter.

Sure, there have been issues with technological limits (no memory card on the 7650, no data port on the 6600, crappy PopPort connection on the 6680 & N73) but nothing insurmountable or devastating.

Knowing my luck, I've now talked this fecker up and my N97 will "do an iPhone" and explode in my face!! 😉

Of course, in an arena such as an online forum, all you are going to hear about are the problems because no one comes on a forum and makes a raft of posts stating how much they love their phone and how they aren't having any problems with it at all, except me of course!! LOL

But the fact remains that web forums tend to have a negative bias and it's the same wherever you go. I run & moderate a few forums within the music production arena and whilst there are many posts where people are offering excellent advice and hints & tips, the vast majority are people bitching about problems and slagging off the manufacturer. Nature of the beast.

I don't work for Nokia, have no vested interest in them or their partners, just before someone mentions it, but my one possibly contentious observation is that none of us are industry experts, never mind experts on Nokia and their practices and methods, yet many of us launch into vociferous and bile ridden rages, claiming that Manufacturer A or B are ripping us off/motivated only by money/incompetent/etc when in actual fact, none of us could begin to have a clue! And just to head this one off at the pass, I'm not having a pop at any group or individual on here 😊

Nokia are the worlds largest and leading mobile device manufacturer and they haven't got there by building shoddy products and fleecing their customers, and they're not about to do anything like that deliberately in light of the substantial competition they face today.

Bottom line, IMHO, is that many people may have unreasonable expectations of a device or may simply not fully understand the physical and technological limitations of that device, resulting in an underwhelming experience. Did anyone see the video that (I think) Steve Lichfield posted up a while back of his trip around Nokia's testing facility in Farnborough? If you ever needed evidence of Nokia's commitment to producing quality products that last, that was it. I'm not saying they might not get it wrong once in a while, who doesn't? But it's not in their interests to produce crap. Why would they start now?

I will, however, agree with the sentiment that Nokia (lack of) Care is absolutely rubbish. I contacted them a week ago to sort out the transfer of my N-Gage game licences of to my N97. A young lady told me someone would call me back. Still waiting for that call. I emailed them on Saturday about the same issue, got an automated reply stating someone would be in touch within 48 hours. Still waiting for that contact. I called the Nokia shop to find out a release date for the CR-116 car holder, only to be told "They don't tell US that"!! Piss poor, and no doubt.

Just my �0.02 and in no way a personal or group attack on anyone here 😊

Not taken as an attack. As I said in my original post there are (like you) a whole bunch of folks who are happy with the N97. I'm happy with my new one 😉

I myself have no issues with Symbian and totally loved my N95. Still do.

My issue is almost entirely with Nokia and the way that they are treating the people who buy the N97 and have problems. The indifference is staggering.

And that's why I'm making so much noise...

lovesign wrote:Of course, in an arena such as an online forum, all you are going to hear about are the problems because no one comes on a forum and makes a raft of posts stating how much they love their phone and how they aren't having any problems with it at all, except me of course!! LOL

But the fact remains that web forums tend to have a negative bias and it's the same wherever you go. I run & moderate a few forums within the music production arena and whilst there are many posts where people are offering excellent advice and hints & tips, the vast majority are people bitching about problems and slagging off the manufacturer. Nature of the beast.

I beg to differ, I'm on a number of car, motorbike & watch forums and most of the time owners are praising their purchases, swapping tips and recommending accessories, etc. It goes against the human nature to criticise something you have just paid a substantial sum of money for, you want to believe you haven't made a mistake.

Forums are for exchanging feedback, and I have rarely seen an online reaction to a product that was as bad as the N97 (and that includes the N95). Sure there are some people who have just had a moan about the N97 overall (guilty as charged), but there are some problems, like GPS reception, low memory conditions and the lens cover that are re-occuring with such frequency I can't say it's just coincidence.

Although there are many N97 owners who are silent and happy, I think there may also be a large number who are silent and unhappy.

celios wrote:I think there may also be a large number who are silent and unhappy.

When it comes to technology, unhappy people are RARELY silent 😉

lovesign wrote:When it comes to technology, unhappy people are RARELY silent 😉

We'll never know. I think the proportion of people who buy a phone and then spend days online looking for ways to improve it, reformat, it, etc is fairly small. I know people with iPhones, S60 based handsets of all vintages, etc. that have never registered for a phone forum. Hell, some of them have never upgraded their firmware (when the device supports this).

It's an impossible argument to make that just because there is a lot of noise from N97 owners, it's due to a vocal minority who are complaining and everyone else is happy as Larry. That's the kind of thing they were saying in the Nokia Discussions forum in July. Now every day the place is awash with the N97 issues, over and over.

There is also a difference between general griping about Nokia, the N97, etc. and reporting a specific issue. When you see the same issues coming up again and again, the only conclusion a logical mind can reach is that there is a problem.

I must admit that im happy with mine. Touch wood no lense issue but i do have some widget instabilty, a few crashes and a slightly loose screen but apart from that, all is good!
Im still on v11 locked to three and still no update! 😡

-Des

Got to say, as usual, Ewan sums it up quite well.....

http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/news/item/10422_The_Perception_of_Nokia.php

celios wrote:Forums are for exchanging feedback, and I have rarely seen an online reaction to a product that was as bad as the N97 .

I think this says it all really. Totally agree. Never have I seen such a high percentage of negative posts on a forum.

Personally, I think that internally, Nokia know full well they have cocked up and I very much expect that the people coding updates are under a lot of pressure from their bosses to get things sorted ASAP.

What this is though is a classic example of a company releasing something early to compete with a competitor and it then well and and truely backfiring.

I bet there are loads of emails flying around internally with bosses asking their staff to find emails they previously sent warning that an early launch was a bad idea - I work at a large consumer goods company and when things go wrong its funny watching how people cover them selves and how the 'blame culture' kicks in! 😊 I'm glad I'm not the Nseries brand manager right now!!!

BanziBarn wrote:I think this says it all really. Totally agree. Never have I seen such a high percentage of negative posts on a forum.

Personally, I think that internally, Nokia know full well they have cocked up and I very much expect that the people coding updates are under a lot of pressure from their bosses to get things sorted ASAP.

What this is though is a classic example of a company releasing something early to compete with a competitor and it then well and and truely backfiring.

I bet there are loads of emails flying around internally with bosses asking their staff to find emails they previously sent warning that an early launch was a bad idea - I work at a large consumer goods company and when things go wrong its funny watching how people cover them selves and how the 'blame culture' kicks in! 😊 I'm glad I'm not the Nseries brand manager right now!!!

Yep, but will they find the technical guy who told them 128Mb RAM was enough, or has he already covered his (or her) tracks?! 😃

It's the nature of the problems with the N97 that should worry Nokia. You start off with a pretty small amount of RAM and then make it worse by installing a load of junk on C: by default. You set the browser to store it's cache on C: and then forget to limit it to a reasonable size, or clear it.

Two problems that the average user can stumble across in less that 4 hours usage, yet Nokia with all it's testing labs and development teams didn't spot them?

And the hardware problems... the lens cover, the patchy GPS reception on some handsets, the battery cover that can end up creaking unless you fiddle with the tabs used to attach it. These are the kind of obvious 'fails' that I would expect from a new entrant to the smartphone market, like an Android phone or Palm with the Pre.

Nokia are the world's biggest handset maker, and there are hints that they were asleep on the job when they tested the N97 (hardware AND software).

I'll tell you one thing, I wouldn't like to spend a few months with the first N900 firmware, if this is what happens when they use an existing OS (that was on the 5800 6 months prior to the N97 launch).

lovesign wrote:Got to say, as usual, Ewan sums it up quite well.....

http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/news/item/10422_The_Perception_of_Nokia.php

Except he misses the fact that the N97 complaints aren't just coming from the bloggers and magazines, etc. This time, they're coming from the users. The ones who spend money on (and time with) the phone.

How many of the AAS editorial team bought and use their own N97? Blowing �499 can colour your opinion slightly 😉

BanziBarn wrote:What this is though is a classic example of a company releasing something early to compete with a competitor and it then well and and truely [sic] backfiring.

iPhone, N97's perceived competitor, released June 2007.

G1, the HTC Android offering, released October 2008.

N97, Nokia's perceived challenge to the iPhone, released June 2009.

How is that rushed? Sorry, don't get it.

celios wrote:How many of the AAS editorial team bought and use their own N97? Blowing �499 can colour your opinion slightly 😉

And how many of us users blew �499 on the device?? Let's be fair, most of us picked it up on a heavily subsidised contract 😊

lovesign wrote:iPhone, N97's perceived competitor, released June 2007.

G1, the HTC Android offering, released October 2008.

N97, Nokia's perceived challenge to the iPhone, released June 2009.

How is that rushed? Sorry, don't get it.

:con?:hmmmm: you mean to say you missed the launch of the 3gS on the SAME day as the N97 - call that conincidence?

Yolmol wrote::con?:hmmmm: you mean to say you missed the launch of the 3gS on the SAME day as the N97 - call that conincidence?

Exactly my point :icon14:

lovesign wrote:And how many of us users blew �499 on the device?? Let's be fair, most of us picked it up on a heavily sibsidised contract 😊

In that case, you're probably paying even more! 😉

Yolmol wrote::con?:hmmmm: you mean to say you missed the launch of the 3gS on the SAME day as the N97 - call that conincidence?

Er, 3GS was Apple's 3rd attempt at the iPhone. And they still don't come close in so many respects.

lovesign wrote:Er, 3GS was Apple's 3rd attempt at the iPhone. And they still don't come close in so many respects.

You're on thin ice there. How many versions of Symbian have there been? How many revisions of S60? The N97 isn't even the first phone to have S60 5th Ed and it's still got problems.

Apple are not perfect, but their 3GS was far less buggy out of the box if my (admittedly limited) exposure to it is anything to go by.

celios wrote:In that case, you're probably paying even more! 😉

Be it an N97, iPhone or other smartphone, I'm paying a monthly contract whatever phone I choose. Either way, we all pay. But to suggest that the guys here at AAS are biased just because they get free review devices is ludicrous. And I just love it when people brand them as Nokia apologists. Anyone that reads this site properly can see the title is All About Symbian, and that includes numerous non-Nokia devices, many of which are raved about by the guys here.

Bottom line is that the N97 is what it is. We, as consumers, have the power to choose our own devices. If you want to leap in and be an early adopter rather than hang around and see how things pan out, you have to accept the consequences.

And what short memories we all seem to have... 😉 A trip through the early postings of the N95 board (and many others) reveals many, many posts, complaining about the GPS, or lack of "this and that", poor build quality, yet the N95 moved on to be, without question, one of the greatest smartphones ever.

I've been on this board long enough (6 and a half years now...blimey!) to safely say that I have seen this ALL before 😉

celios wrote:You're on thin ice there. How many versions of Symbian have there been? How many revisions of S60? The N97 isn't even the first phone to have S60 5th Ed and it's still got problems.

Apple are not perfect, but their 3GS was far less buggy out of the box if my (admittedly limited) exposure to it is anything to go by.

It's easy to be less buggy when you can't do half the things a Symbian device can 😉

lovesign wrote:It's easy to be less buggy when you can't do half the things a Symbian device can 😉

Well this thread was about the silly hardware workarounds that N97 owners are having to resort to. I haven't seen anyone with an iPhone having to resort to sticky tape, sharpies, copper wire and plectrums... have you?

And there's the point (I know, you were wondering where it was!)... if Nokia can't make something that doesn't require fiddling around with just to get the hardware working, how can they expect to compete against companies that evidently can (exploding batteries notwithstanding).

But hey, I'll be giving the N900 a miss and will be paying close attention to the Apple tablet when it appears later this year.

celios wrote:Well this thread was about the silly hardware workarounds that N97 owners are having to resort to. I haven't seen anyone with an iPhone having to resort to sticky tape, sharpies, copper wire and plectrums... have you?

And there's the point (I know, you were wondering where it was!)... if Nokia can't make something that doesn't require fiddling around with just to get the hardware working, how can they expect to compete against companies that evidently can (exploding batteries notwithstanding).

But hey, I'll be giving the N900 a miss and will be paying close attention to the Apple tablet when it appears later this year.

No, but I've seen them jailbreaking Apple's ridiculously restrictive device simply to get it on a better network or get decent apps on it.

The N97 doesn't require all those shenanigans mentioned by the OP and choosing to do those over returning the device under warranty for a refund or replacement is just plain silly.

As one of the keynote's said at Nokia World this week, a mobile device is a highly personal choice. If people feel they have to resort to such arcane "fixes", surely they are the ones who need examining? What happened to the age old practice of consumers voting with their wallets? If the N97 is so crap, it's sales will suffer and Nokia will, one would hope, learn a very valuable lesson.

My bet is that by the turn of the year, we will see a much more positive set of posts on this N97 board 😊