When do you think the v3.0 will come?

I am with you here and in the mean time i will try to getrid off this phone as the more time i spend with this the more i am getting frustrated with NOKIA now grrrrrrrrr............😡

I hope V30 will bring a radical new interface, the current one just looks dated now compared to other phones.

i dont think there will be an interface change though, this is nokia's s60 screen, and unlikely it'll morph itself..

what i would like to hope to get is multiple desktops

if not that, at least an implementation of it akin to the e series devices where you can switch them, that would be SO COOL, you hear?

well, i'd like to have a few of the e series features such as the phonebook features included also

and facebook integration close to how the touch pro2 is doing it, where the user contact pictures and status updates can be synced to the phonebook entry. that is cool too

other than that, what ARE the main problems you ppl are facing with the phone after v20? mine has been plodding along nicely after the update, aside from the rss issue which i dont know if theres a workaround for it since i never looked.

jerm wrote:i dont think there will be an interface change though, this is nokia's s60 screen, and unlikely it'll morph itself..

what i would like to hope to get is multiple desktops

if not that, at least an implementation of it akin to the e series devices where you can switch them, that would be SO COOL, you hear?

well, i'd like to have a few of the e series features such as the phonebook features included also

and facebook integration close to how the touch pro2 is doing it, where the user contact pictures and status updates can be synced to the phonebook entry. that is cool too

other than that, what ARE the main problems you ppl are facing with the phone after v20? mine has been plodding along nicely after the update, aside from the rss issue which i dont know if theres a workaround for it since i never looked.

You asked which are the problem people are facing after updates so here it goes phone still freez my email client stoped working least a week when try to open any other application while only two active aplication running i get message phone memory full please shutdown someapplication and than try there is nothing to shutdown no idea what they want me to do so I have to delet my account (email) and reiconfigure that.

Twice I have to hard reset to get rid of memory errors,
if i try to make confrence call it freeze and list goes on so i am really fedup with this one i just bought one for my another phone and this time i bought HTC HERO I can't tell how happy i am with that phone every thing works like they way it suppose to be why can't this brick ????

fuzzuy wrote:You asked which are the problem people are facing after updates so here it goes phone still freez my email client stoped working least a week when try to open any other application while only two active aplication running i get message phone memory full please shutdown someapplication and than try there is nothing to shutdown no idea what they want me to do so I have to delet my account (email) and reiconfigure that.

Twice I have to hard reset to get rid of memory errors,
if i try to make confrence call it freeze and list goes on so i am really fedup with this one i just bought one for my another phone and this time i bought HTC HERO I can't tell how happy i am with that phone every thing works like they way it suppose to be why can't this brick ????

At the risk of boring you all (again) MY Sim-Free, Generic V20 FW N97 never crashes or locks up. I don't really have any problems at all.

You either have a hardware fault or a rogue 3rd party app (including network branding?) is causing the instability.

Well, I have one of those rogue 😊 network branded phones, but I'm afraid I'm gonna bore them too, cos mine hardly freezes either.

Regards
Neil

nbriscoeuk wrote:Well, I have one of those rogue 😊 network branded phones, but I'm afraid I'm gonna bore them too, cos mine hardly freezes either.

Some network branding is more intrusive than others! Which network r u on?

Seriously though, assuming we all have the same N97 hardware and a majority of AAS members are now on V20 Firmware... then all that's left to cause instability is:-

(a) Hardware faults - (which can be repaired under warranty for FREE)
(b) rogue apps/settings in network branded FW or pre-loaded apps - (NCCs will apparently legally load generic FW without invalidating warranty if you ask nicely)
(c) rogue 3rd party software or incompatibility between apps (try a hard reset, then only install a couple of your regularly-used apps each week & monitor stability)
- NEVER restore Nokia backups after FW flashing!

I sympathise with all the early adopters who have suffered buggy pre-V20 FW and GPS/lens issues. However ALL of the above has-been fixed by Nokia and is available to N97 owners at no financial cost.

I am a Nokia S60 enthusiast, and I use AAS to help other Nokia handset owners, and to inform myself about new apps & functions. However, the sticky thread at the top of the N97 forum area listing 100s of 'Hot applications for your N97 from aas members!' is probably encouraging users to install dozens of apps they don't really need - some of which MAY interact with each other to cause instability of the handset. I work in I.T. and PC build/upgrade policy is a nightmare because our organisation has literally 100s of different apps, from different vendors, spread over various departments. Some PC apps definitely break other apps! This is fact.

Users also seem to think they should be able and to multi-task all of their installed apps at once, running in only 128MB of RAM. That's unrealistic and not really required by most of us.

I read somewhere Apple iPhone users can choose from 100,000 apps on the AppStore. Arguably 99% of them are little of no use or benefit to most iPhone owners.
I imagine the same probably applies to N97 owners who install dozens of apps, where maybe 10 really good ones will be used on a regular basis?

I wholeheartedly agree with you dez borders.

Sometimes when I read postings on here I have to wonder to myself if there aren't two N97 (I don't mean Mini) phones.

I've owned the N97 since launch day (v10 firmware) and only debranded it from Vodafone in September (thus potentially voiding my warranty dez) to receive v12. In hindsight I should have waited and run my operators firmware for awhile before changing to the generic v12 so that I could get a comparison between the two.

However, previous experience with other handsets, N80, N80IE, N95 and N95 8GB, has taught me that operator firmware can cause problems.

In the past I have had operators not only add stuff to the generic firmware, such as logo's, boot-up screens, but also their own app's and in some cases they have disabled some features on handsets to suit themselves. In particular I'm thinking of the N80IE where some operators removed VoIP (internet calling) without telling anyone thus leading to numerous complaints that the handsets were rubbish until it was discovered that this feature was no longer there.

Hardware, lens, GPS, problems aside, both of which I have never suffered from, one of the commonest problems I have come across are incorrect settings by users.

Now bearing in mind that there are a myriad of settings on the N97 that all interact with one another, goodness knows what the permutations are, it sometimes only needs one setting to cause problems. Hence my comment:-

"Perhaps smart phones are becoming too smart.
We get them and fire them up, sometimes ignoring the manuals, and then shove loads of third party software on them without a thought or adjustment to settings and expect them to work perfectly. I know from my own experience that I've had to uninstall software from a handset because of conflicts or poor programming."

in this posting:-

http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/forum//forum/thread/90298/

I have for instance read postings in the past from people who say that the Maps programme became very slow and lagged when used on long journeys, only to discover that they had not downloaded the maps for the area they were in previously and that once they were out of the limited initial Maps download area the N97 was having to not only try and navigate but also download map data over 3G on the fly. See here:-

http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/forum//forum/thread/90325/

Like you dez, I scrutinize app's before, and after, I load them as I have found that some of them can be detrimental to the operating of the N97. Indeed, one theme I installed looked the dogs whatsits but was so RAM heavy it would freeze/crash my phone randomly. I did not blame the N97 for this. Yet, all too often, I see complaints about the N97 being rubbish and it turns out that it's an app or theme causing the problem.

Lastly, the new v20 firmware should not just be installed over the top of the v11/v12 firmware. Sure this was OK in previous releases from V10 to v11 and v12 but with such a huge leap in firmware from v12 to v20 I have found out the hard way that just installing v20 and using the phone straight away caused all sorts of problems in the first 24 hours. Freezing, crashing, unable to read parts of memory, images, music, app's not responding (sound familiar?).

It was my own fault, not the N97's. In my eagerness to obtain v20 I just installed it. After experiencing these problems I did what I should have done in the first place and using PC back-up I kept a copy of Contacts, Messages, Notes, Calendar and Bookmarks.
I then formatted Mass Memory and did a hard reset.

I then used restore to load my five backups and then set about loading my images and music on from the relevant PC folders.

I keep a folder with all my app's in which is divided into three sub folders labeled C:, E: and F: which denote the destinations that the app's should be loaded to (saves a lot of time and trouble) and bit by bit I loaded the app's.

I soon found that some app's that I used on v10, v11 and v12 were no longer required, by me, on v20. Most noticably the beta Nokia Photo Browser, as the in-built photo app worked better and offered so much more.

The one thing I did not install was the previous Settings from the v12 firmware. This would have been the kiss of death as they are not compatible with v20.

Now I know there will be those who say, "I installed my v20 straight on without all this rigamoral and it works fine".

My answer to this is, how do you know if you haven't tried the above procedure?

One thing I noticed after doing it was that I had about 60Mb on C: on the vanilla installation. This allowed me to place my widgets for Accuweather,NewsBuzz and ComingNext on to C: where they run better and more reliably and update over wifi and 3G. Also I was able to put my current theme on there as well.

In closing I therefore ask again, are there two N97 phones, one with built-in problems and one without, or, is there a different explanation centred around operator firmware, extra applications, settings or, dare I say, even users themselves?

[email protected] wrote: I wholeheartedly agree with you dez borders.

Thanks for the words of support. I know my postings may come across as smug & superior when I say there's nothing wrong with my N97, but it's just the truth about my N97 experience.
In no way do I mean to upset AAS members who's N97 experience has been a bad & frustrating one.

[email protected] wrote:
I've owned the N97 since launch day (v10 firmware) and only debranded it from Vodafone in September (thus potentially voiding my warranty dez) to receive v12.

I am well aware folk are probably fed up of my repeated postings about de-branding voiding the warranty. However I feel there are newbie N97 owners & AAS forum members who simply don't know there IS a risk, so my aim is to do them a favour by warning them about it. I personally have lost 2 Nokia smartphone warranties in 2 years by de-branding. Enough said!

[email protected] wrote:
However, previous experience with other handsets, N80, N80IE, N95 and N95 8GB, has taught me that operator firmware can cause problems.

In the past I have had operators not only add stuff to the generic firmware, such as logo's, boot-up screens, but also their own app's and in some cases they have disabled some features on handsets to suit themselves. In particular I'm thinking of the N80IE where some operators removed VoIP (internet calling) without telling anyone thus leading to numerous complaints that the handsets were rubbish until it was discovered that this feature was no longer there.

I have owned most of the above handsets also, and experienced problems with bluetooth, GPS dropping etc,. All serious problems are rarely completely resolved before about V20 firmware.
It seems Nokia doesn't seem able to produce a truly reliable and fully featured handset until there's a '2' in the first digit of the FW!

I also remember the VOIP being disabled (by Orange I think?) on one of my previous Nokia handsets, and how truly disgusted I was with Nokia for allowing networks to mess around with functionality - although I found out later that said Networks had refused to market the handset model unless they got their way. We always jump too quickly to blame Nokia for evils of the Mobile Networks whims...

[email protected] wrote:
Like you dez, I scrutinize app's before, and after, I load them as I have found that some of them can be detrimental to the operating of the N97.

In my experience, when a NEW problem or instability appears on my handset (which is not a known FW bug) it's pretty much always within a few days of installing a new app.
If uninstalling this app doesn't cure the problem, I perform a hard reset and install everything except the app(s) i recently installed before the issue was noticed.

All my required apps (SIS/SISX/JAR) installation files are on an 8GB Micro-SD card, which I use solely for backups and installation files.
I use PC/OVI suite to synchronise Contacts, Calendar, Bookmarks, etc. Anything else, like WiFi connections and user preferences, I re-enter manually.
For large folders (E:\cities folder containing GPS MAPS etc) I will have a known-good copy either on the MicroSD or on my Laptop.

From performint the hard-reset to totally customised and all my apps re-installed takes me under an hour.
So far, touch-wood, I have always been able to restore my handset to a reliable configuration using this method.
This applies not only to my current N97 - every Nokia smartphone I have owned has had the occasional hard-reset, perhaps once or twice a year.

[email protected] wrote:
Lastly, the new v20 firmware should not just be installed over the top of the v11/v12 firmware. Sure this was OK in previous releases from V10 to v11 and v12 but with such a huge leap in firmware from v12 to v20 I have found out the hard way that just installing v20 and using the phone straight away caused all sorts of problems in the first 24 hours. Freezing, crashing, unable to read parts of memory, images, music, app's not responding (sound familiar?).
... The one thing I did not install was the previous Settings from the v12 firmware. This would have been the kiss of death as they are not compatible with v20.

The day I received my N97, I went straight from V11 to V20 FW and thought I had bricked my N97 because it would freeze during boot-up.
I performed the Vulcan-death-grip hard-reset process (thus clearing both phone memory and mass memory) and everything started working fine.
This backs up your theory that V11/V12 settings & configuration data is simply not compatible with V20 - it is too big a jump.
Even small FW version increments can cause havoc if you restore a full Nokia backup in my experience over the last 4 years of N-Series handsets!
I wish Nokia would add a safety check to the backup/restore app to prevent restoring system-config data after a FW change - both for version (upgrades) and variant change (de-branding).

[email protected] wrote:
In closing I therefore ask again, are there two N97 phones, one with built-in problems and one without, or, is there a different explanation centred around operator firmware, extra applications, settings or, dare I say, even users themselves?

Maybe you and I simply got 2 'good' N97's and it's nothing to do with what the user does with their handsets after opening the box? (However I doubt it)

dez_borders wrote:
I am well aware folk are probably fed up of my repeated postings about de-branding voiding the warranty. However I feel there are newbie N97 owners & AAS forum members who simply don't know there IS a risk, so my aim is to do them a favour by warning them about it. I personally have lost 2 Nokia smartphone warranties in 2 years by de-branding. Enough said!

I was only pulling your leg dez!

It has become your trademark and quite rightly so. I am all for debranding so long as people realise the consequences and can accept them. 😮

As the iPhone has been brought up (I don't have one) I think some acknowledgment need to be made that you can install any one of those 100,000 apps seemingly without endangering stability in the slightest, I don't know about installing all 100,000 :tongue: , but I'd bet that it'd cut you off before system stability went.

As far as firmware upgrades go it is Nokia's inability to manage update packages I think you're citing really, not to say Apple haven't tripped up here too but they've rectified problems soooo much quicker and on the whole Apple firmware upgrades go so smoothly hardly hear about them (except from those with jailbroken phones) . Nokia need to work out a way to manage updates so that users don't need to be experts to apply them correctly or indeed have any knowledge at all and that they can't brick their phones in the process. After all the very hard reset you're recommending was refuted by the developers of the V20 firmware when questioned by our own Steve Litchfield I think it was in the roundtable with bloggers. I'm with you in that I think a hard reset is necessary to make this firmware update implement properly but Nokia themselves don't recommend this. Who should we blame for the problems?

And again for the record my N97 (which I still don't have 😃 ) is a generic NAM version bought from Nokia NYC with 3 apps other than Nokia installed ones.

dez_borders wrote:Some network branding is more intrusive than others! Which network r u on?

Seriously though, assuming we all have the same N97 hardware and a majority of AAS members are now on V20 Firmware... then all that's left to cause instability is:-

(a) Hardware faults - (which can be repaired under warranty for FREE)
(b) rogue apps/settings in network branded FW or pre-loaded apps - (NCCs will apparently legally load generic FW without invalidating warranty if you ask nicely)
(c) rogue 3rd party software or incompatibility between apps (try a hard reset, then only install a couple of your regularly-used apps each week & monitor stability)
- NEVER restore Nokia backups after FW flashing!

I sympathise with all the early adopters who have suffered buggy pre-V20 FW and GPS/lens issues. However ALL of the above has-been fixed by Nokia and is available to N97 owners at no financial cost.

I am a Nokia S60 enthusiast, and I use AAS to help other Nokia handset owners, and to inform myself about new apps & functions. However, the sticky thread at the top of the N97 forum area listing 100s of 'Hot applications for your N97 from aas members!' is probably encouraging users to install dozens of apps they don't really need - some of which MAY interact with each other to cause instability of the handset. I work in I.T. and PC build/upgrade policy is a nightmare because our organisation has literally 100s of different apps, from different vendors, spread over various departments. Some PC apps definitely break other apps! This is fact.

Users also seem to think they should be able and to multi-task all of their installed apps at once, running in only 128MB of RAM. That's unrealistic and not really required by most of us.

I read somewhere Apple iPhone users can choose from 100,000 apps on the AppStore. Arguably 99% of them are little of no use or benefit to most iPhone owners.
I imagine the same probably applies to N97 owners who install dozens of apps, where maybe 10 really good ones will be used on a regular basis?

For the record, I'm on VF.

I agree with most of your other comments too. I only run a couple of apps (at most) at once and close them when I've checked for updated data I'm looking for. Never run out of RAM yet, even pre V20.

It was a close run thing immediately after the upgrade, but I've now taken steps to remedy that by removing some of the pre-installed stuff from the C: drive (why do they insist on storing it there?) and re-downloading and installing on the E: drive.

Regards
Neil

It will come when N97 is will be in history books and will carry a tiny list of worthless changes and attempts to say "Nokia is still here! We still exist!" but by then I hope Nokia will go bankrupt.

snoFlake wrote:As the iPhone has been brought up (I don't have one) I think some acknowledgment need to be made that you can install any one of those 100,000 apps seemingly without endangering stability in the slightest, I don't know about installing all 100,000 :tongue: , but I'd bet that it'd cut you off before system stability went.

I guess you refer to AppStore approval of ALL iPhone apps? I bet a few rogue apps out of the 100,000 have slipped thru testing with undiscovered bugs and stability problems?

Then again, just imagine how long Nokia would take to approve all S60 apps...lol

wow long replies haha

well i for one too am not having problems with my v20 apart from rss and opera throwing me a memory error (which was also fixed with its newer release, getting less errors now)

possibly some just upgraded without doing a full reset etc i suppose

as for 3.0, well nokia's announcement on their s60 ui overhaul is a welcome thing, hopefully though it will not be limited to the new release phones for next year, but at least some form of backward compatibility with existing ones, like the n97

jerm wrote:wow long replies haha

well nokia's announcement on their s60 ui overhaul is a welcome thing

any links to what they actually said in that jerm?:icon14:

jerm wrote:
as for 3.0, well nokia's announcement on their s60 ui overhaul is a welcome thing, hopefully though it will not be limited to the new release phones for next year, but at least some form of backward compatibility with existing ones, like the n97

Unfortunately, major UI changes usually mean a different versiono of S60 OS, which is stored in ROM and not part of the firmware - which means new handset models only will get it.

But then again Nokia could just prove me wrong... 😉

@TurtlePower here ya go

@dez yeah, looking at the news in full now, seems only the new handsets will be getting it, sigh

Of course only new handsets will get it, first and foremost the tragic little hardware is struggling to run the N97 as it is. Going forwards I think they might have to learn to include older models in OS updates but not for the moment, and I didn't expect otherwise. I know we were promised some amazing developments on the N97 by year's end but I guess that meant getting it to work :tongue: , seriously we were but unfortunately I guess they spent so long fixing it and have worked out the limited hardware can't actually cope with much so I reckon we better settle for kinetic scrolling and draw a line under this sorry handset and get about using it for the rest of our contracts.

There is a mention of a new mid Dec firmware upgrade made by Nokia themselves on their discussion forums but to be honest I'm not expecting anything other than some more bug fixes and maybe some fixed widgets. I reckon the software engineers must be expaiining that they can't perform miracles on an abacus

The bloke that fixed mine at the nokia service centre said that home updates,don't totally wipe the old opperating system, even when doing a hard reset.

He did a special service centre flash and since then the phone has been near on perfect......

snoFlake wrote:I guess they spent so long fixing it and have worked out the limited hardware can't actually cope with much so I reckon we better settle for kinetic scrolling and draw a line under this sorry handset and get about using it for the rest of our contracts.

There is a mention of a new mid Dec firmware upgrade made by Nokia themselves on their discussion forums but to be honest I'm not expecting anything other than some more bug fixes and maybe some fixed widgets.

Minor bug fixes are usually all that is included in minor (e.g. 2.0 to 2.1) FW upgrades.
Major FW upgrades (e.g. V2.x to V30) are usually 6 to 9 months apart with Nokia.

I don't personally believe the UI redesign and other future functionality is being witheld beacuause of 'limited hardware' in the N97.

More likely considerations are:-
1. The OS is fixed in ROM and can't be changed (much) with FW upgrades.
2. Commercial reasons - who will buy next year's models if every new function appears in the current ones.

Regarding your 'limited hardware' comments, I think that's unfair. Look back 12 or 18 months and nobody could do more than dream of this much hardware and functionality in a mobile phone.
Of course, the removel of the GPU chip from recent models, was arguably a backward step - but presumably Nokia considered tha the vast majority of Nokia owners were not making full use of a graphics co-processor? (e.g rarely or never play games with 3D graphics).

If you really want horsepower, put a 3G card in your laptop and carry that around with you instead - then complain about the short battery life, no doubt? :tongue:

Well let's ,look back to 2004 when W800 came out etc................doesn't really shed any perspective on a current flagship comparing it to the phones of yesteryear (although that's what I fear happened inside Nokia) the only valid comparison is to the handsets available hwhen it was launched in June/July 2009 and aginst the Sam i8910 it looks weak and aginst the iPhone it looks weak and I think the Hero was available then. Moreover the hardware platform was very similar to their offerings for last 2 years in top end which was adequate for S60 v3 and S60v5 SF^1 but not really up to handling the SF^1/^2 hybrid in the N97. Seems too much going on for it to handle otherwise why the problems with call unlock and screen roation and the problems running active widgets? Anumber of features - active widgets, transistions which were in the original proposition have been either sidelined or as users here do, recommended to uninstall or not use them or quietly droopped altogether.

There have been many problems especially for less experienced users (and this is a phone sold to the masses so why should they need to be well versed in Symbian lore) running out of space on the C: also there have been many problems with shortage of RAM and again ther are many discussions how to streamline your phone to limit RAM usage in this forum. And for wall of first time users with C: and RAM problems read Nokia's own discussion forums.

I feel that if the phone was adequately specd these discussions would not be taking place and it would not have required 3 firmwares to try and optimise performance and stability (Nokia's own words-ish) . If the C; was adequate at 256MB why was the mini (a junior version) launched with 512MB? Steve Litchfield in his ballanced and comprehensive review on the N97/mini says as much and bemoans the lack of RAM. And since those were poor might as well include the processor which in the absence of a GPU is really struggling in my view, great on the N86 just not up to running a multi media touch platform. If it had the N900 proccy I think it would have flown and also stopped the frequent (and somewhat justified) ctricisim of a sluggish UI or abated it at least.

In my view the phoneweas not released with a platform really up to running the features adevertised or sufficient to the status of a mid 2009 flagship - yes it may have been able to run the 5800 as a last optimistaion (and hence the limited home screen on it) and my have shone in 2007/2008 but it's time has passed

snoFlake wrote: I feel that if the phone was adequately specd these discussions would not be taking place and it would not have required 3 firmwares to try and optimise performance and stability

I don't know what your history is with N-Series handsets, but pretty much every 1st handset on a new S60 version has had to have 3 FW upgrades before it's TRULY stable. N70, N80, N95 spring to mind. And that's not including the myriad of nasty Network branded variants which introduce errors and memory problems with pre-installed crApps which Nokia didn't write. Nokia has little or no control over what goes in the user-memory data file in branded FWs. Only the main FW file and language variant FW files are 100% under control of Nokia.

snoFlake wrote:
(Nokia's own words-ish) . If the C; was adequate at 256MB why was the mini (a junior version) launched with 512MB? In my view the phoneweas not released with a platform really up to running the features adevertised or sufficient to the status of a mid 2009 flagship - yes it may have been able to run the 5800 as a last optimistaion (and hence the limited home screen on it) and my have shone in 2007/2008 but it's time has passed

I agree that 512MB RAM would have been better, but Let's be honest here, the more RAM in a handset the more apps people will try to multi-task - just to prove they can. Just look at all the postings on this subject. Multi-tasking after 3 or 4 apps is just one-upmanship and childish behaviour. I USE the apps I install, I don't just install every freeware or cracked app that's advertised on S60 based forums because they are FREE.

Once again, my generic FW sim-free N97 with a dozen or so tried and trusted apps - that I actually use on a regular basis - is incredibly stable and works well.
Those who have installed and uninstalled dozens of trialware, freeware, cracked and beta apps can't justify complaining of instability.
Those who accepted network branded FW because they got the handset cheap or free complain of unreliablility. I think these owners should comlaint to the networks, instead of Nokia.