Samsung i8910 HD: Miscellaneous Musings

Even bigger than the N97 according to that picture. That's enormous. And look at the other picture and see how much of that size is display screen, not enough.

Not good.

I would like to give my and only my impressions on the subject:
1. The volume of C: in omnia varies with firmware, but almost the same as n97. But with custom rom you can get up to 100mb, which is impossible in n97.
2. Omnia lacks kinetic scrolling - indeed very bad. But overall speed of the system so much faster, then n97, so be it.
3. It's true no OTA and UDP, so is most of nokias, WM etc.
4. Yes, there was hiss and other small problems, which were easily enough fixed with tutorials on related sites, the same is going on nokia related sites, as iphone, WM, just name it.
5. I never used mentioned programs for browsing media, even in my beloved n73. Just file browser, which will open in related program almost any video (unlike all nokias) and nokia photobrowser for pictures.
6. Iplayer works only in UK, what about the rest of the world? So there are tens similar and even better programs which will do the job.
7. I agree with Steve about TouchWiz. But i think the same way about widgets on n97. I use the old nice tracker.
8. Yea, future support may stop. But so may nokia's.
9. About petition, just look on forums dedicated to nokias. How many petitions were there - hundreds. I, myself, signed one for releasing N-GAGE to n73 as was PROMISED.
Must be said, that i didn't mention any features, which are way better in Omnia comparing n97. When person does not use this device in spite of mentioned, who is a zealot?

I cannot understand why always seem to be so harsh on phones having more than one way of doing things. Like the omnia having 2 video players, several ways of getting to you photos etc. You usually give htc phones the same because of Pocket IE and opera mobile being on the same phone.
It may be unnecessary. But does it ACTUALLY matter?

Only a complete moron would actually be confused by having 2 browsers. And certainly not the type of buyer that would buy an omnia(or any smartphone). Some would welcome the idea of having 2 choices since no mobile browser will work on every page(admittedly pocket IE is complete garbage). In fact I consider this a strength of symbian. Since between s60 web, opera mini, skyfire and now opera mobile there are very few pages you cannot get to.

And if you always just use the same app you can just hide the other app away in some folder you never go to.

Choice is good IMO.

I got the 8910hd and the nokia n 86 the samsung has the latest software the photos and videos
i make with the nokia are far more better than the ones i take with the samsung displaying
on tv is possibel with the samsung but both videos and photos are very bad displayed on tv
with the tv out cabel.The nokiA videos and photos are very well displayed on tv
anton van der poel,holland

If you have followed my posting pertaining to my Satio which is still in SE service centre waiting for the replacement part to arrive. The waiting seems to be like an internity. The phone is just not responding to input. I cannot even activate my SIM card. Prior to this when I want to check what apps are running behind the background by pressing the menu button in the middle for a second or two. The Calender keeps popping up instead. I got myself a N97 Mini on Dec. 4. So far I have no complains about the phone & it works far better than the Satio. UI is more responsive than the Satio. Is more solid & heavier as it does not have acres of plastic as found in the Satio. Battery last a lot longer. The UI responsiveness is still no where near the iphone when it comes to swiping & scrolling. Hopefully next year when they launch a newer version things will improve. I just do not understand SE's business philosophy. They are merely chasing customers away.

Tenkom wrote:I cannot understand why always seem to be so harsh on phones having more than one way of doing things. Like the omnia having 2 video players, several ways of getting to you photos etc. You usually give htc phones the same because of Pocket IE and opera mobile being on the same phone.
It may be unnecessary. But does it ACTUALLY matter?

Only a complete moron would actually be confused by having 2 browsers. And certainly not the type of buyer that would buy an omnia(or any smartphone). Some would welcome the idea of having 2 choices since no mobile browser will work on every page(admittedly pocket IE is complete garbage). In fact I consider this a strength of symbian. Since between s60 web, opera mini, skyfire and now opera mobile there are very few pages you cannot get to.

And if you always just use the same app you can just hide the other app away in some folder you never go to.

Choice is good IMO.

I 100% agree with Tenkom. If you have a choice of ways of doing things, you can pick the one you prefer and stick with it. What's the problem?

Great wardware , poor software... I just sold my HD on ebay. It has too many software bugs for me, and Samsung just didn't care! I change the firmware to many times from Portugues, to Italian, to Russian....... But there wasn't one with everything working. I guess S60 5th isn't what S60 3th was at the time of N95... Android is great and has lots of potential, and Nokia with the update firmware politics still being a better choise even with less powerfull phones !!!

Where is there mention that Samsung will not be producing S60 phones for 2010 onwards?
From what I read that "statement" that they mentioned is false & they retracted it.
I know that lots/most of the resources will be going into there own Bada OS,but they will still be making S60 & WM phones.

As I understand it, Samsung have said they're not going to do any Symbian phones in 2010, as I said. This doesn't rule out some in 2011, of course.... 8-)

The bit that got misquoted was about them dropping Symbian altogether.

(count to 10......)

Ok, fortunately i don't consider myself a 'zealot' ( i prefer playing Terran ; -). I don't, and as far as i can recall, 'fail to see positives in other devices'. To prove that, i'll put in print here and now, that i LIKE the I-Phone (and even SOME Blackberry's)! I think a lot of phones are very capable and in many ways equal, i just prefer the one that i eventually chose. It takes me about the last 3 months at the end of my contract deciding which device is next. I'll read the sh*t out of every review, both good and bad, lurk on the different forums, actually go and try out each device (as much as i can) before i choose which one i can live with for the next 18 months. I'm also as brassic as a certain podcaster, so phones are the only tech i can afford to get into, hence i try and pick wisely.

This time around it was the i8910, last time it was the E90, before that it was the N73, before that the A1000. So i'd actually say i'm an underdog fanboi, not particularly a Samsung fanboi. That's just the way its turned out this contract. If my E90 contract had finished in a couple of months i'd probably be holding an HTC Dragon/Passion and you wouldn't even see me around here.

I don't have a problem with the N97. either 'classic' (BTW, when did it gain a 'classic' moniker?!?!?!), or the 'mini'. They just aren't my choice.

But i'm not the main reviewer/contributer on one of the largest, if not THE largest, most read Symbian phone site/forum in the world. I also don't have 3 podcasts being played around the globe. My opinion doesn't get as much 'airtime'.

Your views and opinions, intentional or not, affect peoples buying choices.

And i don't think your 'objective thoughts' are as objective as you do.

That's where my problem lies.

Look at TracyandMatt's articles for objective, unbiased reviews. That's what you should aim for.

As far as the rest of the article:

• Haven't run out of space yet. I don't really 'geek' it. I just am careful to install apps to the main (8gb) drive and clean out the cache. I think we are all in similar 5th edition boats, having designers without the first clue about giving enough working space for our phones to work properly. How do they continue to F it up? It's a shame there isn't a 'Partion magic' for Symbian, cutting a section of the main storage and marking it for OS memory instead. We could all benefit from that.

• Haven't really noticed a problem with lack of kinetic scrolling in the Samsung's menu's, the screen is responsive enough not to need it (imo). I've used the screens on the 5800 (spent most of the weekend with my Sister in law's), N97, and N97 mini, Satio, and the X6. I still prefer the responsiveness of the Samsung's screen. Its incredibly sensitive to touch, sometimes too much. Raindrops hitting the screen actually open apps and menu's! Annoying but also kind of nice. I find myself jabbing the screen's of resistive 5th edition phones repeatedly to open apps.

• As far as any kinetic browser, we all have access to Opera 10 now, so that playing field has been levelled, especially as its better than the OEM browser (for most things).

• Not really too fussed about OTA updating. I'm not going to be flashing my firmware while in the middle of nowhere, and as i'll be doing it at home/in the office, a cable connection to update is no big problem. UDP would be a nice idea though as re-installing is a PITA.

• I do agree that video recording has been... disappointing. Sometimes in 'HD' recording mode the video gets choppy, especially the first video in a series of several. Not had any hiss though, not sure why some do? The still camera is great (for a phone camera), i've never managed to find any pink frisbee's in my images.

• Not really noticed the 'issue' with media handling. I use gallery to browse pictures, and file manager to get to podcasts and videos. But i did the same thing with my N73 and E90 in the past.

• Iplayer DRM is bit disappointing too, it would be great if that was fixed. It would be nice to store shows for later viewing on the i8910. But is that Samsungs fault or the Beeb's? Also, until carriers (like Orange) make 'unlimited' actually unlimited, its probably better to download or stream via Wifi anyway.

• Although i think that TouchWiz's widgets are completely pants (on all the Samsungs afflicted with it. I turned it off ages ago), I think you're wrong about the Samsung's finger mode. Look at my screenshot:

  

• I do agree that Samsung's turned their back on Symbian and the i8910. That may, or may not, be in part due to the scare mongering about Symbian going down the toilet. I don't think there will be any future support upcoming. At least down the 5th edition route. It'd be great if, as a Symbian Foundation chair holder, they looked into getting a future version (3 or 4) to install on the i8910. But i won't hold my breath. I can't think of a single phone that has ever been offically ported to a new OS. And i don't think this will be the first.

• Not sure to what extent Bada is going to replace Symbian on any future Samsung device. I've heard bada is an OS, and i've heard it's just a new shell. Until things firm up, i'll wait and see. Similarly, remember the "Nokia to drop Symbian, switch to Maemo" scare mongering a couple of weeks back? I think we should all chill and wait, say 6 months, to see what shakes down instead of living headline to headline. A little long term outlook (aka wait and see)would be a good approach.

  I don't think the Rover analogy works here. Neither Symbian or Samsung are going to fall over, die and be sold to the Chinese anytime soon ( i hope!).

• It's also a shame that Orange was the only carrier to pick up the device, and then FUBAR the firmware, AND then not fix it. So the attempts at making the firmware work better have fallen to home brewers and foreign versions of the firmware. I do think the i8910 is going to fade away from UK shops, soon. Not because it's crap, but because the manufacturer and the only UK carrier have appeared to have turned their backs. (Hope one or both of them read this...)

And i do have do throw this in. The i8910 has never been subject to any recall, never been pulled from websites/high street shops because it doesn't work or has dodgy firmware, and is STILL the ONLY 5th edition device able to play Steve's VGA podcasts....

.

steve when you use the "finger" home screen you do get calender entries on the screen along with media controls,dont think you get wifi scanning tho

@UKJeeper.

You seem to have misunderstood the problem with DRM and iPlayer. The DRM allows you to download and keep (for a limited period) BBC programmes for playback anywhere, anytime, unconnection. I love it and it's the killer app that keeps my with my current phone. Regardless of whether it is the fault of Samsung or the Beeb, lack of this brilliant facility is a drawback.

As for objectivity, your own words: "Not really too fussed about.....", "Not really noticed the issue...", and you dismiss the kinetic scrolling that is the minimum expected these days. That's all about you and your preferences, while Steve has to think wider than that. Probably the reason why Steve is the reviewer of the phone and you are the reviewer of the review.

I agree with most of the points you mentioned Steve.
But personally I think its the best phone on the market, especially for video playback.
One thing you forgot to mention though, is how crap the phone is taking pictures at night and of moving objects!

Unregistered wrote:@UKJeeper.

You seem to have misunderstood the problem with DRM and iPlayer. The DRM allows you to download and keep (for a limited period) BBC programmes for playback anywhere, anytime, unconnection. I love it and it's the killer app that keeps my with my current phone. Regardless of whether it is the fault of Samsung or the Beeb, lack of this brilliant facility is a drawback.

If you have a Macbook there is a fantastic bit of s/ware called iPlayer Downloader that strips out the DRM on iPlayer and lets you keep the stuff much longer. Solves the issue for me on iPhone, but does download .mov files which I seem to be unable to play directly on the N97 mini, but I guess there would be a free converter around if I looked.

Kev

Great stuff you pointed out here. A phone is only as good as its software and Samsung hasn't done nearly enough making the n97/n97 mini the best s60 5th edition phones out there. In terms of potential though its hard to beat the i8910 on any platform, it has a lot going for it. In fact, I'd be willing to pay Samsung to fix the firmware. The iPod touch has had 2 updates which users had to pay for, I've been donating to software modders for their work on custom ROMs, so why not?

UKJeeper wrote:At least down the 5th edition route. It'd be great if, as a Symbian Foundation chair holder, they looked into getting a future version (3 or 4) to install on the i8910. But i won't hold my breath. I can't think of a single phone that has ever been offically ported to a new OS. And i don't think this will be the first.

I don't think the Steve is a zealot, he simply put forth simple logical points here.
I bought my i8910 as I like Symbian and this was the most impressive hardware around. I choose it over N97 for precisely the same reason; N97 hardware would get prehistoric in another two years.
Obviously, I m left disappointed with Samsung's attitude with this phone. Such half baked firmware doesn't endear them to their customers. Obviously I could do a lot of hacking to make stuff work, but that not what most people buy such expensive devices for.
With regard to software, the Samsung widgets are nowhere near the Nokia WRTs. Yeah, the finger use mode is lot better than the Samsung widget mode but then that is something I could always do with my E61i (Actually, I could put more content there!).
So I got hold of a couple of developers @ Samsung (yeah, you can do that if you are a engineer yourself and live in Bangalore!). From what I heard from them, Samsung has moved most of its resource out of Symbian into Android and other areas.
I at least m not going to buy a Samsung device ever again.

UKJeeper wrote:Its incredibly sensitive to touch, sometimes too much. Raindrops hitting the screen actually open apps and menu's! Annoying but also kind of nice.

rvirga wrote:I can't think of a single Symbian phone that has ever been officially upgraded to a subsequent OS release.

Though it's probably not counted as 'official', the Nokia N97 now runs Symbian^2 to all intents and purposes. But yes, this type of mammoth upgrade has been somewhat unusual.

The N95 getting demand paging was another bug surprise - there have been 'backporting' examples if you look closely enough.

In Nokia's defense, there are generally more hardware-specific 'gadgets' on their phones and a wider range of form factors that, together, require a degree of customisation in terms of firmware than would be the case for, say, an iPhone to get upgraded.

Yup, its obvious Steve is a Nokia fan boy no doubt about that. But to be real, I wouldn't blame him at the rate Samsung and Sony Ericsson are going on the Symbian side of things.

slitchfield wrote:Though it's probably not counted as 'official', the Nokia N97 now runs Symbian^2 to all intents and purposes. But yes, this type of mammoth upgrade has been somewhat unusual.

In Nokia's defense, there are generally more hardware-specific 'gadgets' on their phones and a wider range of form factors that, together, require a degree of customisation in terms of firmware than would be the case for, say, an iPhone to get upgraded.

I know you're just trying to wind me up, but hey, it's Monday....

rvirga wrote:I can't think of a single 'gadget' that Nokia phones have and, say, Android and/or WinMo handsets don't; perhaps you can be more specific. And, up to now, Symbian^1 phones have come in just 2 form factors, pure tablet and with slide-out keyboard.

I was looking over the last 5 years. Nokia have experimented with 6 or 7 different form factors and screen sizes, plus have dallied with digital compass, Xenon flash, FM Transmitters, stereo speakers, multimedia playback controls, active kick stands, variable aperture cameras, LED torch mode, dual screens, active noise cancellation and a lot more, all more or less unique to Nokia - I'm sure readers here could pick out more gadgets. And they all need integrating in various ways to the on-board software.

rvirga wrote:Given that S60 5th edition is also known as Symbian^1, Symbian^3 is not a "new OS", but rather a new release of the same OS. And I can think of plenty of phones that have been ported to a new OS release. People who bought the original iPhone in July 2007 can (and probably should) upgrade their phones to the latest 3.1 OS release. The T-Mobile G1 has been upgraded to 1.5, and then again recently to 1.6. Buyers of Omnia 2 handsets who are still running WinMo 6.1 are entitled to a free upgrade to 6.5. The Palm Pre's WebOS has been upgraded many times, from the original 1.0 release to the current 1.3.1. And what I'm talking here are manufacturer- and carrier-sanctioned upgrades, which can be installed without voiding your warranty. But you're partially right: I can't think of a single Symbian phone that has ever been officially upgraded to a subsequent OS release.
.

Perhaps i'm misunderstanding here but i was under the impression that the upcoming Symbian OS'es will be a completely different system to 5th edition and any other preceeding S60 OS. A whole NEW OS, rather than an upgraded version. Which is what you've referred to above. They are all just upgrades rather NEW OS'es. Definitely true in the case of Win 6.5 at least. The underlying architecture is the same. I did not think that was the case for future Symbian OS.

@Steve
If you have an iPhone 1 and upgrade it to the 3rd version of iPhone OS, it ignores the stuff that the 3GS has and the iPhone 1 doesn't, and just works.

However,
Not being able to upgrade the OS is not a big deal for many as the life span of a phone in use is about 12 months. I prefer to spin my phone off to someone else and buy new one with a new OS.

Currently Android 2 is trying to materialise. Apparently some Heros can upgrade from 1.6 because they were designed for Android 2. However, each new Android release from the open source/google will have to wait for HTC to add their SenseUI layer, Motorola to add their Blur layer etc. Not good.

UKJeeper wrote:Perhaps i'm misunderstanding here but i was under the impression that the upcoming Symbian OS'es will be a completely different system to 5th edition and any other preceeding S60 OS. A whole NEW OS, rather than an upgraded version. Which is what you've referred to above. They are all just upgrades rather NEW OS'es. Definitely true in the case of Win 6.5 at least. The underlying architecture is the same. I did not think that was the case for future Symbian OS.

Roughly :
Symbian ^ 1 = S60 v 3 / S60 compatible / Non Touch
Symbian ^ 2 = S60 v 5 / S60 compatible / Touch
Symbian ^ 3 = S60 v ? / S60 compatible / Touch + Non Touch (?)
Symbian ^ 4 = ? / NOT S60 compatible / Touch + Non Touch (?)

😊 Regards jApi NL

jApi NL wrote:Roughly :
Symbian ^ 1 = S60 v 3 / S60 compatible / Non Touch
Symbian ^ 2 = S60 v 5 / S60 compatible / Touch
Symbian ^ 3 = S60 v ? / S60 compatible / Touch + Non Touch (?)
Symbian ^ 4 = ? / NOT S60 compatible / Touch + Non Touch (?)

😊 Regards jApi NL

No, it's more like:
S60 3rd Edition FP2
S60 5th Edition = Symbian^1 (as on the Nokia 5800, Samsung i8910 HD)
S60 5th Edition on the Nokia N97/N97 mini = Symbian^1 with chunks of Symbian^2 - it's not clear if Symbian^2 will appear in the flesh, so the N97 might be as close as we'll get until....
Symbian^3 - extra gadgets and widgets and bells and whistles, but still largely S60 compatible
Symbian^4 - whole new UI architecture built on Qt, SIS binaries won't work, developers will need to re-code and recompile

It's more complicated that all this, of course. Rafe will know the answer, why not send in a formal question to him for the next Insight podcast?

The two big problems with this article are:

Yet again it concentrates merely on negatives, and over-eggs them somewhat.

Yet again a lot of the facts are wrong.

malerocks wrote:I am confused. Someone help me please. AFAIK, don't capacitive screens need the electrical energy / pulse or something from your fingers to work and that is why they don't work with gloves on, stylus, etc. How do raindrops get the i8910 HD capacitive screen to work??

Don't know what to tell you. When i've been out walking the dog in the rain, and i've pulled the phone out to change podcasts, the rain touching the screen makes menu's i hadn't selected pop up, and go back a screen several times.

And no, i'm not going to leave the phone out in the rain with a video camera pointed at it just to prove it! 🙄

stuclark wrote:The two big problems with this article are:

Yet again it concentrates merely on negatives, and over-eggs them somewhat.

Yet again a lot of the facts are wrong.

Hi Stu. Well, I did ask you ages ago for some positive editorial material on the i8910 HD - we're very open to publishing anything like this. And re the facts, I'd love to read a point by point discussion of why my bullet paras are wrong.... Over to you! 8-)