Following on their action in October, Nokia have asked the US International Trade Commission to investigate Apple, alleging that "[they infringe] Nokia patents in virtually all of its mobile phones, portable music players, and computers." The patents in question cover the areas of user interface, camera, antenna and power management technologies. Read on for more.
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We can compete so we'll sue.
"We want to make a mobile phone, so lets start from where Nokia is, and improve from there. Patents? What patents?"
This is why the major cell phone manufacturers have such heavy patent sharing. Is research in the user interface (Apple's shtick) more deserving of protection than Nokia's hardware and telephony research?
Saying they are suing so they can't compete is bull. Apple is allegedly stealing a lot of R&D from Nokia (not surprising, since they are new to town). Nokia, I'm sure, started with negotiations to share their hardware patents for Apple's UI patents. Apple likely turned them down (wanting the best UI), and attempted to demand access the Nokia patents at a moderate rate because they are necessary to build modern cell phones. As such, Nokia is barred from setting super-high prices for access to these.
So, Nokia attempted to use Nokia's patents without sharing their own. Thus they are being sued.
This latest lawsuit shows that Nokia is really afraid of Apple which has revolutionised the whole mobile phone industry. I have never heard about Nokia suing other companies so many times.
Unregistered wrote:This latest lawsuit shows that Nokia is really afraid of Apple which has revolutionised the whole mobile phone industry. I have never heard about Nokia suing other companies so many times.
Unregistered wrote:This latest lawsuit shows that Nokia is really afraid of Apple which has revolutionised the whole mobile phone industry. I have never heard about Nokia suing other companies so many times.
The latest lawsuit shows that Nokia realizes that Apple won't stop stealing until they're banned by the court and that may take time, going the ITC route will be quicker.
I'm hoping they'd ban Apple from selling the products that use stolen technology and fine them heavily, to put a cherry on top, send Steve Jobs to Jail for stealing.
nokia are not stupid they held back these patent violations intentionally knowing apple would counter sue after they made the initial claims.
this is nokias countering the counter and telling the world they are up for a fight if they have to
Apple wanted a license but not on Nokia's terms. Nokia insisted Apple license multitouch as part of a reciprocal arrangement - Apple refused. This is in the countersuit.
Nokia was an innovator once, now it is a large Finnish bureaucracy.
I wish the peanut gallery would do a bit of research before coming out with the 'Nokia can't compete' or 'they don't innovate' nonsense.
Three points:
1) Nokia stil dominate the smartphone market. Share has reduced largely because the US market has expanded and Nokia has zip there. EMEA is down 10% but APAC is up about 30%.
2) Don't innovate? Maemo isn't innovation? Sheesh. Tough crowd.
3) This argument's been going on for two years. It's not new.
>Nokia was an innovator once, now it is a large Finnish bureaucracy.
Ain't that the truth - If you can't beat them, sue them!
Unregistered wrote:Apple wanted a license but not on Nokia's terms. Nokia insisted Apple license multitouch as part of a reciprocal arrangement - Apple refused. This is in the countersuit.Nokia was an innovator once, now it is a large Finnish bureaucracy.
Nokia and Apple are in the same boat - neither has innovated for years.
Nokia have just done minor point changes since the 7650 and haven't done anything radical in the market. There is absolutely nothing new in the iPhone that hasn't already been out there - they've just made it a little nicer, a little easier to use, and then gone and used their amazing marketing ability to make it a sexy thing.
Multi touch isn't an Apple design, they've just bought the companies/individuals who did some of the original developments.
Mr Mark wrote:I wish the peanut gallery would do a bit of research before coming out with the 'Nokia can't compete' or 'they don't innovate' nonsense.Three points:
1) Nokia stil dominate the smartphone market. Share has reduced largely because the US market has expanded and Nokia has zip there. EMEA is down 10% but APAC is up about 30%.
2) Don't innovate? Maemo isn't innovation? Sheesh. Tough crowd.
3) This argument's been going on for two years. It's not new.
Nope, Maemo isn't any sort of innovation. Its been an evolution over the last few years, the 770, N800 and N810 being all very similar, albeit without the cellular ability.
My one main irritation is how the iPhone and Blackberry have somehow been counted as smartphones. They aren't. They're just feature phones. Note - I've used Blackberries since about 2001, and know them well - they are definitely not a smart phone.
The only full blown smartphone systems out there worth discussing are Symbian, Windows Mobile, Android and Maemo. The Palm Pre could be in there if they had some sort of future, which sadly I don't think they do.
If having the biggest market share by a long way compared to Apple's tiny percentage = "can't compete" then the world doesn't make any sense.
It's normal for corporates to protect their IP and their R&D investment through litigation if necessary. It is happening all the time and if you haven't heard much about it, it is because it doesn't normally attract the same kind of publicity that Apple do.
Apple even had to go to court because they stole their name from the Beatles.
Can anyone point out any significant handset innovation that has come to the market since the original iPhone in 2007?
Unregistered wrote:Can anyone point out any significant handset innovation that has come to the market since the original iPhone in 2007?
More to the point, what was the innovation in the original iPhone? Okay, it was one of the first consumer devices to popularise multi-touch, but that was technology that had been around for what, 10+ years prior?
There hasn't been any truly significant innovations in mobiles over the past 5 years. Higher pixel counts, better quality video recording, more memory, faster processors, and LOWER BATTERY LIFE.
The last phones I had that could last more than 2 days were the W810 and W550 - both could do 4-5 days. N73 could last 3 days max, N95 2 days and the N85 typically a day and a half, 2 days absolute maximum. Nothings got close to the BB 7230 - that would last 7 days of continual usage.
@clonmult, I don't know what definition of smartphone you are using, but in my book, if there is an discrete API encouraging/allowing 3rd party app development, it's a smartphone.
Imagine if...
1. None of these companies (hardware, software, middleware) could hold patents for more than say 2-3 years, then it was open slather (this would allow the patent filer to make initial profits on it's ideas).
2. If companies spent their millions and billions in litigation fees and patent claim payouts on improving their generally buggier and buggier firmware, software and exploding hardware.
3. If we could somehow bring about an "Open Hardware" philosophy similar to Open Source software.
Think of the wonderful, useful, stable and cheap technologies we would all be using today...
Next mission - World Peace and ending all poverty...
Nokia is basically saying: "We own 100% of the iPhone! Now pay us." I think that is ridiculous. Nokia is really desperate but very serious this time.
Unregistered wrote:Nokia is basically saying: "We own 100% of the iPhone! Now pay us." I think that is ridiculous. Nokia is really desperate but very serious this time.
Where are Nokia saying that they own 100% of the iPhone?
.....
clonmult wrote:More to the point, what was the innovation in the original iPhone? Okay, it was one of the first consumer devices to popularise multi-touch, but that was technology that had been around for what, 10+ years prior?There hasn't been any truly significant innovations in mobiles over the past 5 years. Higher pixel counts, better quality video recording, more memory, faster processors, and LOWER BATTERY LIFE.
The last phones I had that could last more than 2 days were the W810 and W550 - both could do 4-5 days. N73 could last 3 days max, N95 2 days and the N85 typically a day and a half, 2 days absolute maximum. Nothings got close to the BB 7230 - that would last 7 days of continual usage.
In my post I said "come to the market", in that I mean Apple didn't innovate but they brought the innovation to market. The style of touch user interface that iPhone uses hadn't really existed before, the innovation brought by the iPhone was to make many smartphone functions usable so that even an idiot could operate them.
clonmult wrote:More to the point, what was the innovation in the original iPhone? Okay, it was one of the first consumer devices to popularise multi-touch, but that was technology that had been around for what, 10+ years prior?
Apart from the UI, Apple has created a working App Store, reaching the mass market. Nobody in the mobile world has managed that before Apple.
Reaching the mass market was one of the promises that mobile companies used to wow mobile developers with, so for Apple to finally create that market, after everybody else failed and had given up, is the single most important thing that Apple did for the mobile software market.
Their tools being nice and their programming language being even nicer would have been completely pointless if nobody was buying software from Apple's App Store.
svdwal wrote:Apart from the UI, Apple has created a working App Store, reaching the mass market. Nobody in the mobile world has managed that before Apple.Reaching the mass market was one of the promises that mobile companies used to wow mobile developers with, so for Apple to finally create that market, after everybody else failed and had given up, is the single most important thing that Apple did for the mobile software market.
Their tools being nice and their programming language being even nicer would have been completely pointless if nobody was buying software from Apple's App Store.
Again, not an innovation as such, just a better implementation. Certainly other working ones existed, such as some of the SatNav makers.
After several hours, nobody can suggest any innovations that stand up. Suffice as to say that nobody is innovating, so no mileage in pointing the finger at Nokia on that score.
Now, Comes With Music.... innovation or not? Whether or not it is a success is not relevant.
Unregistered wrote:Again, not an innovation as such, just a better implementation. Certainly other working ones existed, such as some of the SatNav makers.
So? Sites like Handango have been around for ages (10 years). PC software was selling on the web before that.
The App Store concept isn't new, but in business, proper execution is much more important than the original idea. A business makes money by choosing the right implementation of a few innovative ideas out of the huge number of unprofitable innovative ideas.
Unregistered wrote:@clonmult, I don't know what definition of smartphone you are using, but in my book, if there is an discrete API encouraging/allowing 3rd party app development, it's a smartphone.
So on that count anything that can run Java apps counts as a smartphone then. My old SE K800 - smartphone. K750 - thats also a smartphone?
Smartphone implies a more desktop like experience to me - full multi tasking, any application in theory can run in the background.
svdwal wrote:So? Sites like Handango have been around for ages (10 years). PC software was selling on the web before that.The App Store concept isn't new, but in business, proper execution is much more important than the original idea. A business makes money by choosing the right implementation of a few innovative ideas out of the huge number of unprofitable innovative ideas.
Its the proper execution that Nokia has sorely lacked.
Remember Download? I first remember trying it on the N73 and thinking "nice idea, looks pants". Everything in there was a mess. Apps listed as "free", but they were just trials. Ridiculously restrictive range of applications.
If Nokia hadn't been keeping their collective heads so far up their collective posteriors, they could have leveraged Download! and developed it into something like the App store, but they didn't.
svdwal wrote:So? Sites like Handango have been around for ages (10 years). PC software was selling on the web before that.The App Store concept isn't new, but in business, proper execution is much more important than the original idea. A business makes money by choosing the right implementation of a few innovative ideas out of the huge number of unprofitable innovative ideas.
Correct. So by your explanation, and by any other definition something that has been around for years, but has simply been done better by someone else is not an innovation. Which was my
point. The App store is not, by any stretch of the imagination, an innovation.
clonmult wrote:Its the proper execution that Nokia has sorely lacked.Apps listed as "free", but they were just trials.
I believe this is still rampant on with Ovi Store.
Unregistered wrote:I believe this is still rampant on with Ovi Store.
They are putting "free trial" or "trial" on the icons now.