Nokia Q4 2009 results, smartphone world market share up 5%

This is good news for the company. They needed it. Where was the growth? Established markets, emerging markets, or both?

Share price up 10% !!!

From the release:

Our sequential market share increase was driven primarily by higher market share in Asia-Pacific, Middle East & Africa, Europe and North America. Our market share was sequentially down in Greater China and Latin America.

This is obvisouly overall, not just converged device. So it looks like it is good sales in Asia, Middle East and Europe that are mainly responsible

Operating profit increased 132% to EUR 1 141 million in Q4! There is NO "operating loss of EUR 426 million". It was in Q3.

Admin edit: Good catch, thanks. I think my copy and paste trigger finger got happy.

The Eseries has begun to set the pace in the industry(probably E71,E72) while the Nseries has have come down drastically, from Q3 '07 to Q2 '08 (N95;8GB all was well), from Q2 '08-Q1 '09(N96,N85,N79 lukewarm releases, N82 being the only saving grace), from Q1 '09 to Q4'09 (N97,N86,'97mini being let downs while N900 being only of questionable appeal)

Nokia's policies have made them lose loyal customers, I remember with what enthusiasm I bought N97,N85,N86 which later were,more or less, let down by one or the other issues.

What the Nseries needs right now is a device with all of the best of Nokia's features.Something as exciting, as Game changing, as a true multimedia experience, as my beloved N95(N82 if you might like).

Nokia, its time to unleash the bigger brothers of the N82 and the N95, they were fabulous devices,even without touchscreens, they chugged along without a hiccup,from doing everyday tasks to becoming the ultimate holiday companions.These phones ,literally sent my digicam packing. They, inadvertently, became an integral part of our lives.They were plastic,but survived being hit by solid metal, they looked flimsy, but they still worked even after we stepped on them.They were always reporting for duty,never faltered since the last 3 years.

Nokia,please do the needful.

I hope that the ongoing bad rep for Nokia be a passing phase and they do make a comeback with new devices instead of rehashed old-models.

Nokia's policies have made them lose loyal customers

Most people would be of the opinion that increasing your market share by 5% in the smartphone sector - which gows ever bigger - increases your number of customers.

"Nokia's policies have made them lose loyal customers"

And gain new ones.

Learn to read much?

Thanks for pointing out that mistake. Apologies. A copy and paste mistake during some subsequent additions I think.

Mr Mark wrote:Most people would be of the opinion that increasing your market share by 5% in the smartphone sector - which gows ever bigger - increases your number of customers.

You are in denial of the jarring truth. Smartphone sector will grow.Why didn't anyone notice the steep fall of the Nseries sales, well, they used to be Nokia's crown jewels before, don't you agree.

By loyal customers,I don't mean people who purchase Numbered/Xpress Music devices, The crowd is of those people who purchase Nokia 'premium' 500$ smartphones, phones like (N95,N82 and the like) and mod the hell out of them. Nokia released such a device, the N900, but at 800USD and a brick form factor, it is not the one to own, it just does not cut it.

Moreover,companies always tell the upside in press releases, otherwise, they are bound to lose share holders. I have no interest in Nokia's overall growth, it is just so monotonous now, they are the bigwigs in the phone market,atleast in the EU,Asia etc and posting they made profit is like posting Michael Schumacher won the F1 race.

They will make profit, the thing of interest is by selling WHAT type of devices, which will help prospective buyers get an idea of Nokia's forte and decide on a smartphone company that meets their needs

raffmonster wrote:You are in denial of the jarring truth. Smartphone sector will grow.Why didn't anyone notice the steep fall of the Nseries sales, well, they used to be Nokia's crown jewels before, don't you agree.

By loyal customers,I don't mean people who purchase Numbered/Xpress Music devices, The crowd is of those people who purchase Nokia 'premium' 500$ smartphones, phones like (N95,N82 and the like) and mod the hell out of them. Nokia released such a device, the N900, but at 800USD and a brick form factor, it is not the one to own, it just does not cut it.

Moreover,companies always tell the upside in press releases, otherwise, they are bound to lose share holders. I have no interest in Nokia's overall growth, it is just so monotonous now, they are the bigwigs in the phone market,atleast in the EU,Asia etc and posting they made profit is like posting Michael Schumacher won the F1 race.

They will make profit, the thing of interest is by selling WHAT type of devices, which will help prospective buyers get an idea of Nokia's forte and decide on a smartphone company that meets their needs

The N900 is 800USD ?? - WRONG !! Its currently only $542 at amazon.com (unlocked sim free) and Dell even had it at sub $500 recently. I got mine for �349 here in the UK. Dont just write it off as another brick, it actually looks robust and UI is sleek like butter - you need to use one before making judgement. Its a knockout - IMHO the most powerful and best smnartphone out there (I have not tried the Google phone yet but this N900 baby is full blown Linux with full multitasking not some iToy). I cant wait for the Maemo6 device !!. As for pure smartphones, the 5800XM is the best all rounder (consider the free Ovi maps boost)

Its good to see that people are smarter than the pundits give them credit for - they want a phone with flash and decent camera, multitasking, bluetooth file transfer, good sound and speakers that wont cost the earth. Three yrs from now, iPad wielding Apple will be on the periphery of this game.

So it looks like Nokia is doing great in low-end smartphones and leaving high-end to other manufacturers. Too bad I do not care about boring phones with 240x320 resolution screens - that was interesting in 2005.... I hope the next flagship will not be similar to N96 or N97...

PS. I would also love removing so many warnings and messages in Symbian... I really do not need a message informing me, that "diverts are active" every time I make a call, and stupid message informing me, that I have connected the charger (I know that 😊 or that I have disconnected the charger (I can see that without pointless warning on the screen).

Flagships are not everything. Even in other brands, only minority buys them. I do agree Nokia needs to revamp the Nseries, but still this is just going to be for show and not profits. A lot of these low to mid level smartphones $200-$300 does most everything the consumers need and want. Nut I understand that they are not for you because you want a "flagship". Let us hope Nokia does something about it . But in the mean time you cannot deny the fact that they are doing well with the other non-flagship phones.

As a shareholder I'm very pleased with my 10+% shareprice gain today giving me a 10% profit on my holding (guess where I bought'em yep been sitting on a scratch trade basically with few ups and downs since late Sep :tongue: ). The improvement/stabilisation in Nokia Siemens has helped a lot as large portion of previous figs was a write down against this unit.

The phone sales are a marked inprovement and my favourite products the cheap 5xxx series seem to have done v well as have the E series. I think the E series looks pretty safe at the moment and might even pick up some trade in the business field from RIM (although they're doing brilliantly in the youth market,wierd, and out reach to Apps developers) but obviously a market for qwerty driven devices even amongst the younger sectors. I'm not quite so complacent about the 5xxx/Xx as X6 seems a bit of a fumble and seeing some decent introductions from SE (Vivaz+qwerty cousin tba)at top end of this segment and at the bottom end touch screen feature phones from LG and Samsung are offering some pretty fierce competition but as a range it has done Nokia proudly through tricky 18months.

The standout concern there as others have pointed out is the performance of the N series which is (unsurprisingly) pretty poor having suffered dramatic fall very little sign oof recovery at the moment which is a pity because although lower in volumes margins are higher in the sector(R&D included) it also serves to drive mindshare for devices app ecosystems and importantly it has been the standout growth sector over the last 2 years. Now I hope going forward that Nokia's gamble on dominating the middle to bottom tiers play s off as the smartphone growth pushes down into these sectors as I'm 100% sure Nokia are right it will take off but they need to make sure that they're also the devices that people want/aspire to own not put up withh before they can move on, i.e. I think Nokia's play is good (that's why I bought share- seemed cheap at time compared to other phone manfs) but I hope they make sure they are on board it when it takes off unlike nGage which they called but made such a mess of it that Apple were the company that 's ended up dominating mobile gaming. Which is why the topend "Explorer" segment cutting-ish edge devices are important and why it's important that Nokia compete more effectively in this space I feel.

Why are people talking about "loyal customers" ? Loyal customers in this market are going to be the tiny minority. Most customers are walk up and buy what suits them with whatever promotion is on.

I have a Nokia, if a phone from another manufactuer suited me better then I would buy it. These are just phone makers, not hairdressers.

Unregistered wrote:Why are people talking about "loyal customers" ? Loyal customers in this market are going to be the tiny minority. Most customers are walk up and buy what suits them with whatever promotion is on.

I have a Nokia, if a phone from another manufactuer suited me better then I would buy it. These are just phone makers, not hairdressers.

It is because some people are in such deep denial that they are wrong that they are scraping the barrel for a negative take on these positive results. There's always one twat.

Nokia obviously have a clever strategy that goes far beyond the knowledge of the keyboard brave armchair evangelists who would have you believe that Nokia are doomed because they don't build a phone that they personally want.

"Nokia obviously have a clever strategy that goes far beyond the knowledge of the keyboard brave armchair evangelists who would have you believe that Nokia are doomed because they don't build a phone that they personally want."

Bullseye!

for all the people bashing the Nseries like the n97, remember, the only thing nokia has to do is give the n97 double RAM and a faster next generation CPU, and that thing suddenly turns into a powerhouse top-notch device. the n97 form factor is excellent, and the new n97 mini build quality is excellent. so its not like nokia is so far away that its impossible for them to turn things around in the high end Nseries. just 2 little things will make all the difference, cpu and ram.

raffmonster wrote:You are in denial of the jarring truth. Smartphone sector will grow.Why didn't anyone notice the steep fall of the Nseries sales, well, they used to be Nokia's crown jewels before, don't you agree.

And? It seems that people still buy Nokia smartphones.

By loyal customers,I don't mean people who purchase Numbered/Xpress Music devices, The crowd is of those people who purchase Nokia 'premium' 500$ smartphones, phones like (N95,N82 and the like)

And the X6 CWM. Incidentally, hardly anyone pays '$500' for a Nokia phone on the bais that they come free with a contract. Most Nokia smartphone customers don't care if it's got an 'N' an 'E' or a numbe ron it.

*Pop*

That was the sound of your argument imploding.

and mod the hell out of them. Nokia released such a device, the N900, but at 800USD and a brick form factor, it is not the one to own, it just does not cut it.

Wrong price. Subjective argument. Sorry, that doesn't cut it.

Moreover,companies always tell the upside in press releases, otherwise, they are bound to lose share holders.

Such as increased share, EPS and ASP? Did you even think before you typed that?

I have no interest in Nokia's overall growth, it is just so monotonous now, they are the bigwigs in the phone market,atleast in the EU,Asia etc and posting they made profit is like posting Michael Schumacher won the F1 race.

Then why are you posting here? Quite clearly you DO have an interest, you just appear to utterly wrong.

They will make profit, the thing of interest is by selling WHAT type of devices, which will help prospective buyers get an idea of Nokia's forte and decide on a smartphone company that meets their needs

So, let's try this again...

Nokia, who do not sell an appreciable volume of smartphones in the US where growth is strong, still manage to increase global share by 5%. Does this mean:

a) More people are buying Nokia smartphones than last quarter.
b) Some load of tosh that you're going to pull out of your rear end.

wait till U8500 comes out with dual core A9 cortex which is under development and it will blow away the competetion

oniox wrote:N900. I got mine for �349 here in the UK.

I have a credit card right here now and when you tell me where you got the N900 for that price, I will buy one without delay.

RogerPodacter wrote:for all the people bashing the Nseries like the n97, remember, the only thing nokia has to do is give the n97 double RAM and a faster next generation CPU, and that thing suddenly turns into a powerhouse top-notch device. the n97 form factor is excellent, and the new n97 mini build quality is excellent. so its not like nokia is so far away that its impossible for them to turn things around in the high end Nseries. just 2 little things will make all the difference, cpu and ram.

The N97i. Nokia used to do that all the time. People stopped buying some phones because they were waiting for the i version.

Interesting bit about almost 10 million touchscreen smartphones. That means that Nokia has also surpassed apple (8.7 million iphones) in that category.

What is really strange is the media bias and what that might do in the long term. Today, media in germany was full of iPad-stories, mostly written by tech enthusiats. If they reported on Nokia's gains, however, it appeared in the business section written by chart analysts. All of this gives people the impression that apple is the prime rules, which there are not - at least yet.

This was a great quarter for Nokia, and there's no denying that. However, let's not get carried away here and declare that all is well. They clearly are selling more lower-end phones (look at the 'numbered' phones vs. N-Series). While their average selling price has stabilized, it is still lower than a year ago. What's happening is that the "dumb phone" market is being supplanted, slowly but surely, by the smartphone. It's no surprise. Even today's feature phones are more powerful than the smartphones of 2003. Nokia has the pieces of the puzzle in place, but they need to get it together and keep it together if they want to challenge in the high-end again. Symbian^4 and Maemo 6 can't get here quickly enough. Ovi Maps is now a "free" feature, so Ovi is still in need of a coherent strategy to generate software revenue. Plus, iPad creates a new question for Nokia. Should they or shouldn't they make an effort at this market?

I'm not too sharp with numbers, but am I missing something here?

Net Sales down 19.2% from 2008.

Operating Profit down 75% from 2008.

Operating margin was 10% in 2008, and then down to 3% in 2009.

How are these figures good?

Preparing to be corrected......

Steve_R wrote:I'm not too sharp with numbers, but am I missing something here?

Net Sales down 19.2% from 2008.

Operating Profit down 75% from 2008.

Operating margin was 10% in 2008, and then down to 3% in 2009.

How are these figures good?

Preparing to be corrected......

"The results are significantly ahead of market expectations,"

Just read it abolve the same as the rest of us.

Steve_R wrote:I'm not too sharp with numbers, but am I missing something here?

Net Sales down 19.2% from 2008.

Operating Profit down 75% from 2008.

Operating margin was 10% in 2008, and then down to 3% in 2009.

How are these figures good?

Preparing to be corrected......

Yes if you look at yearly figures you can see some of the numbers you quote. In the good context we were talking about quarterly figures. The yearly figures are down (mainly) because of performance in Q1-3, not Q4.

The story focused on Q4 (we've covered Q1, 2 and 3 previsouly). The big thing that happened in 2009 as a whole was the recession / global economic turn down. It did catch the end of 2008 (notably Q4, which, incidentally is why the YoY figures for the quarter are good), but the effect was felt in the first half of 2009. There's also things like the Q3 2009 write down of NSN.

Side note: Sales are down - yes - this is mainly due to the reduced ASP of phones (71 to 63), which itself is caused by price pressure and increased proportion of lower cost handsets. However the crucial point is that margins (the money Nokia makes in profit per phone) is up this quarter. This is the figure that tends to affect the share price.

So are the yearly figures good or bad? I think you probably need to compare these numbers with other companies, then you might have some context. e.g. Motorola / Sony Ericsson / Samsung etc.

And as noted these result are good in their context. They beat expectations. As OPK noted the economic situation is still fragile so interesting times ahead.

O.k the sales might be picking up from the mid-range Nokia mobiles,but we want to see more outstanding mobiles from Nokia in the mobile camera market ,since the N95 boost,all we get it 5 mega-pixel camera mobiles an then when they tried to upgrade further all Nokia did was to use one of there old mobiles the N85 an upgraded it,wish was a embarassing idea from Nokia,O.k there are trying to compete in the Touch Screen market nowdays ,but not everyone like touch screen mobiles .so hope in 2010 we do see something more outstanding from Nokia,an still use there Best mobile to date the N95 8gb,but i want to see something more outstanding now from Nokia an hope we get in soon

No worries, upcoming device that combines the built of E series with features and functions of N series is coming soon. N*-00, runs on Symbian^3, 12MP Carl Zeiss Cam, HD video recording, capacitive touch screen, anodized aluminum all round casing and thin.