Symbian^3 Design Preview looks spectacular

Nice to see stuff like multi-touch on Symbian. It really does look spectacular and it will be even more interesting to see the devices powered by Symbian^3.

Will Symbian^3 be ported on existing devices like 5800, N97 or it will be only available in new upcoming devices

i just hope this gets put across onto the n97

I don't believe S^3 will be ported to 5800 or N97. There is no logic Nokia do that. If you want S^3 then you should get a new device covered with. It's simple story and history of devices shows us this simple future. One of reasons to buy a new device is how it is looks but major reason is software behind and this will be key for Nokia to sells new devices. I love my 5800 XM (1 year perfect work to me) but I want S^3. If I can't get it on like software update for my 5800 then probably I'll consider to buy new device.

Isnt multitouch exclusive to apple due to some copyright thing ?

"The Qt toolkit is pre-integrated into all kits and the runtime in Symbian^3 will run on existing devices back to S60 3.1"

so actually i figure it will run on them, maybe not as efficiently but still!!!

Is there gonna be any development at all for non-Touch screen phones or is touch gonna be the only symbian from now on ?

"Isnt multitouch exclusive to apple due to some copyright thing ?"

Im guessing no as both Palm's WebOS and Android have multitouch.

5800 wrote:I don't believe S^3 will be ported to 5800 or N97. There is no logic Nokia do that. If you want S^3 then you should get a new device covered with. It's simple story and history of devices shows us this simple future. One of reasons to buy a new device is how it is looks but major reason is software behind and this will be key for Nokia to sells new devices. I love my 5800 XM (1 year perfect work to me) but I want S^3. If I can't get it on like software update for my 5800 then probably I'll consider to buy new device.

I agree. On top of that 5800 and N97 are probably too slow for S^3 - slow processor and no hardware graphics acceleration.

Looking at the bullet point list there, and watching the video, S^3 probably needs HW acceleration so I doubt you'll see it on N97 or any other current Nokia S60v5 phones. Any symbian phones using Omap 3, such as the SEMC and Samsung ones, could in theory support it given that TI's beagleboard and ZoomII are reference boards for S^3. I guess it's up to those manufacturers to decide what they're going to do though. At least the potential is there, but I don't know anything about the other HW on those phones and if it has suitable drivers for S^3. However it's done though, it will be a decent amount of effort and we all know how little time Samsung in particular like to spend on supporting phones they already sold. Personally, I would not be holding my breath..

At least application developers can safely move over to Qt app development though, with the knowledge that they can still sell apps to the whole set of Symbian devices, right from S60v3 FP1 up to S^3. Possibly even with one codebase too, which is much better than the current situation. Nokia needs to start making a big noise about that on Forum Nokia as soon as possible, including some examples of functional apps which work on all those platforms.

According to wikipedia, there were 63 devices running S60v3 FP1, FP2 and S60v5. That's probably a fairly large proportion of *all* symbian devices still in use, potentially able to run an application written once. I think that's an underestimate, I'm sure I've seen some numbers somewhere saying there were over 30 S60v5 devices around and wikipedia only list a half-dozen or so.

That sounds like pretty good news for developers to me.

Very good stuff for the OS of transition. Can't wait for the N87 😃

"Isnt multitouch exclusive to apple due to some copyright thing ?"

Apple do have a multi-touch patent, but only in the US, and possibly unenforceable due to the vague nature of what's protected (ie. "it would be nice to have multi-touch"😉; here's an excerpt:

�A computer-implemented method for use in conjunction with a computing device with a touch screen display comprises: detecting one or more finger contacts with the touch screen display, applying one or more heuristics to the one or more finger contacts to determine a command for the device, and processing the command. The one or more heuristics comprise: a heuristic for determining that the one or more finger contacts correspond to a one-dimensional vertical screen scrolling command, a heuristic for determining that the one or more finger contacts correspond to a two-dimensional screen translation command, and a heuristic for determining that the one or more finger contacts correspond to a command to transition from displaying a respective item in a set of items to displaying a next item in the set of items.�

As you can see, they don't only contain references to multi-touch but to the interpretation of single-touch gestures, which have been around since the original Palm and Psion devices.

Unfortunately, there is a long history of piss-poor patents being granted in the US, which are generic in nature, contain no real technical features but do make life hard for the competition.

However, if Apple do have patents on the actual technology behind multi-touch, no doubt Nokia and others will find a way to circumvent this....

Is it just me or does this fundamentally look like a small polish to the current 5th edition? I mean, the "complicated" menu structure is still there, just with cool and shiny transitions and HW acceleration. The UI looks a bit laggy even on this promo video and all in all it just doesn't seem like a huge leap forward to me.

Not that this wouldn't be progress. It's still just fuglier than the rest.

"The complicated menu structure is still there"

You mean at 0:04? If that's complicated for you then how did you even manage to submit that comment?

And it seems your definition of 'looks nice' is either 'looks like the iPhone' or 'looks like Android'. There's not really much that can be done there then is there?

Unregistered wrote:Is it just me or does this fundamentally look like a small polish to the current 5th edition? I mean, the "complicated" menu structure is still there, just with cool and shiny transitions and HW acceleration. The UI looks a bit laggy even on this promo video and all in all it just doesn't seem like a huge leap forward to me.

Not that this wouldn't be progress. It's still just fuglier than the rest.

That's why it's Symbian^3 and not a different OS altogether. I'm one of the users that is fundamentally happy and familiar with S60V5. And yeah, it needs a lot of cleaning up which has been done, but if the UI changed fundamentally, and I'm going to practically change OS when I change my phone, then there's little advantage of me sticking to this one.

It's a delicate balance between tweaking and retaining familiarity of an already successful OS.

Loving the N900-style task manager btw! (also looks a bit like the one on the i8910)

I doubt we will see the 5800 or N97 updated to run this. Can multi touch even run on resistive screens?.

The promo isn't 'spectacular'. Looks nice though and hopefully a little clunky than we have got at the moment.

I really don't want to be a naysayer here, I really hope that Symbian ^3 is a resounding success. but....

I do remember that the N97 looked this good in it's promo video, and just as fast, the reality was something completely different.

ohhh, HDMI support, nice feature, yes, reality how often will you use it? not often, imagine having a Blu-Ray 1080p Movie on your phone, yep, thats going to be a huge memory card filled.

It's ok adding all these new features, but how about fixing the ones Symbian already has?

What I would finally like to see in Symbian ^3 is a full proper PIM application suite, and a decent native email client, not the unreliable mess that is Nokia Messaging, but a proper html email client that doesn't rely on Nokia dodgy push service.

I am finding it REALLY hard with this announcement to see the attractions of an iPhone now - and I don't mean for me, I mean for any consumer anywhere.

Why WOULD anyone buy an iPhone when a Nokia (running Symbian ^3) will give you something SO much better SO much cheaper? Better OS, better UI, better camera, open drm free music, fully free and better maps and nav, etc etc etc. The ONLY thing is the appstore apps, and Ovi Store will gradually catch up.

And as for Android, I think Nokia's recent efforts and Symbian ^3, and the implications of MeeGo (just announced, see later stories on the site) kill Android stone dead on every front...

All that is shown in the video is just a copy of the (now "old"😉 iPhone interface (except the task switcher, of course).

I really hope the Open Source release of SymbianOS will allow it to gain real new ideas from the community...

Thats all? LOL.

Unregistered wrote:I am finding it REALLY hard with this announcement to see the attractions of an iPhone now - and I don't mean for me, I mean for any consumer anywhere.

Why WOULD anyone buy an iPhone when a Nokia (running Symbian ^3) will give you something SO much better SO much cheaper? Better OS, better UI, better camera, open drm free music, fully free and better maps and nav, etc etc etc. The ONLY thing is the appstore apps, and Ovi Store will gradually catch up.

And as for Android, I think Nokia's recent efforts and Symbian ^3, and the implications of MeeGo (just announced, see later stories on the site) kill Android stone dead on every front...

People will still buy an iphone even if other manufacturers surpass it in hardware specifications/UI and features. It is an "elite" brand that has been stuck in the minds of consumers. You are "cool" if you have one. Or in the so called "in-crowd". There is so much exposure that it will never go away. Tho good side is at least apple is trying to improve it slowly. (not that it needs it with all the hype it gets)

To Brendan, et. al. Symbian^1 does have a confusing menu structure. For instance, some navigation controls are under Maps while others are in the general settings menus. There is a lot of "nesting" of options, as well. iPhone has the easiest structure of any phone I have seen. It does come at the cost of flexibility, but most tasks are within a tap or two from anywhere (the home button in particular is nice). Android is somewhere in the middle. Certain things are confusing (e.g. having to mount an SD card from the notification pane), but other things are simpler than Symbian^1 while retaining flexibility.

I think the question is how far Symbian^3 goes in simplifying the menu structure. If it is just a pretty facade on a confusing menu structure (the way Maemo 5 looks like right now), it will quickly become apparent. If, however, they have made more controls available within one menu level, and have made more advanced controls appear in more logical places, it should go over well.

Unregistered wrote:People will still buy an iphone even if other manufacturers surpass it in hardware specifications/UI and features. It is an "elite" brand that has been stuck in the minds of consumers. You are "cool" if you have one. Or in the so called "in-crowd". There is so much exposure that it will never go away. Tho good side is at least apple is trying to improve it slowly. (not that it needs it with all the hype it gets)

This is a bit out of date (if it were ever true) there is a very large anti-iPhone movement who see it as a prick-phone, the true cool phone of the moment is Blackberry. Owning an iPhone is a bit like owning a BMW, the driver feels good and cool but everybody else just sees a wanker.

Now, I'd just like to qualify the above by admitting that I have both an iPhone and a BMW (luckily I don't also have a pair of Oakley Juliets or I would be utterly and unanimously despised), however the sad fact is that it is true. iPhone user = wanker -in the eyes of most.

I also see something in the video that I really like, the task switching. How much of a pain in the arse is the iPhone when you are mid way through through doing something with an app, then you have to switch to something else, then go back to the original app and be back at square one. GRRR!
Rumoured to be fixed in version 4 though, fortunately. Unfortunately that won't change the unfortunate image of us iPhone owners.

(I also have Nokia phones and an Android one and I carry whatever suits my needs, I am so thrilled what is happening in the mobile phone world, as I develop for them and I can only see good times ahead - the above video just fills me with excitement for the future)

i thought Symbian^3 would be all about visual enhancements, until i saw the features listed. this is awesome!

Kinetic scrolling should be available even in the pop up menu - 0:11 seconds. Then I don't mind it at all.

Well, this looks like a great UI, and I was for two seconds thinking about buying a ^3 phone, then I remembered my Nokia N97 mini's faults, to name a few:

1) Too little ram (ok, not software); sometimes more is more.
2) Slow processor (Ok, not software); sometimes more is more.
3) Burns my battery when left on standby (fully charged) overnight, so my alarm won't go off - all this with no apps running and FB widget switched off.
4) Its a phone, well, it would be but:

4.1 No alphanumeric pad when calling, say your bank/phone operator, so inputting the number that represents a character is not as easy as it should be.
4.2 Phone can crash when receiving a text standard message.
4.3 Phone gets into a loop when entering a character in T9.
4.4 No search directly in Calendar; no multiple calendars, or todos (I had these in my P900)
4.5 How many clicks to make a call from speed dial - too many.
4.6 Too many notifications
4.7 One click, or two clicks to start your application, sir. One, well you need ^3, then.

So, I think I'll wait awhile before I can trust Nokia/Symbian to deliver a phone that works, as phone, never mind a smart one.

Regards

LZ64

Shame, and I've been a fan of Symbian (Psion) since my LZ64; the agenda and other software on my Psion Mx5 is far more flexible and stable than the ^2.

I don't know if anyone at Symbian who matters ever reads or takes notice of these discussions, but it is simply not going to be good enough to be as good as or a bit better than what other phone OS can do. The next OS needs to come up with a new idea that is both spectacular and completely functional/useful in the UI. Otherwise it will not make a significant splash.

Look at Android, its impact has been desperately underwhelming, because it is perceived as nothing more than a catchup to Apple. Because that's all it it, it hasn't called and raised iPhone OS, it hasn't trumped it, and it hasn't leapfrogged it. It's merely trys to match. Not good enough.

When selecting the target, first assess what might appear on iPhone 4, then come up with something significantly better.

The video above is a reasonable start. Now build on it. There's work to do.

Hey brrip. You're going to have to learn something new eventually as symbian^4 will be different.