shiv179 wrote:Notice how the issue of underpowered hardware was completely ignored, only software was discussed here......
What could he have said or done about it?
"Oh, yes, it's underpowered according to some so we plan to give them a free upgrade to our future device."?
The same Nokia who gave us the N97's v1.0 firmware also gave us, 5 months later, the X6's v1.0 firmware. Which makes incredibly hard to believe that they've learned any lesson from the N97.
shiv179 wrote:Then Nokia should not rip off people with the high prices if it doesn't have the hardware inside!!!The extra ooomph doesn't only help in games.
Do you know what "rip off" means?
Dude, just don't by it if you feel "it doesn't have the hardware inside".
Admit the problem is the first step toward success.
I am too, little regretted that I go to N97 from E71.
If the firmware V2.1 didn't come out, I would have sold my N97 already.
Please make Symbian^3 a better multimedia phone (video/audio) and open up the support for Multi-Language.
It's actually very simply for Nokia. Just allow the NSU update to choose which language to add on. It will definitely win back a lot of customers, guaranteed.
It doesn't matter how "successful" the N97 fiasco was for Nokia in terms of their margins and profit recuperation.
What does matter is that the problems with the N97, and the continuing issues with the equally buggy E72, has damaged the Nokia name with many prospective (and past) consumers, perhaps irreparably. It's damaged them on a Toyota-failing-brake-pads level.
In order to turn things around in the higher-end market, they're going to have to release a device so stellar, i.e. another 'Jesus Phone', that makes the Nexus One and the coming iPhone 4.0 look like yesterday's news. Not an easy job, IMO.
And if they don't do it by the end of this year, the company should probably remain satisfied in profiting from lower end handsets in emerging markets, because they can kiss more developed markets goodbye.
Jimmy1 wrote:It doesn't matter how "successful" the N97 fiasco was for Nokia in terms of their margins and profit recuperation.What does matter is that the problems with the N97, and the continuing issues with the equally buggy E72, has damaged the Nokia name with many prospective (and past) consumers, perhaps irreparably. It's damaged them on a Toyota-failing-brake-pads level.
In order to turn things around in the higher-end market, they're going to have to release a device so stellar, i.e. another 'Jesus Phone', that makes the Nexus One and the coming iPhone 4.0 look like yesterday's news. Not an easy job, IMO.
And if they don't do it by the end of this year, the company should probably remain satisfied in profiting from lower end handsets in emerging markets, because they can kiss more developed markets goodbye.
I don't believe that if there is a proven good handset on sale that people are so moronic that they wouldn't buy it because the same manufacturer were selling a crap device a year ago. Some people are shouting about how great the droid/milestone is, yet Motorola have been selling shite for years.
And the smartphone market is going to develop from new customers that Nokia are attracting with low cost Symbian phones, these are people will trade up. These are people who have no knowledge of, nor care tuppence about underpowered hardware and buggy early release firmware.
There is no irreperable damage here, except amongst a few geeks. Geeks do not a market make.
Unregistered wrote:I don't believe that if there is a proven good handset on sale that people are so moronic that they wouldn't buy it because the same manufacturer were selling a crap device a year ago. Some people are shouting about how great the droid/milestone is, yet Motorola have been selling shite for years.And the smartphone market is going to develop from new customers that Nokia are attracting with low cost Symbian phones, these are people will trade up. These are people who have no knowledge of, nor care tuppence about underpowered hardware and buggy early release firmware.
There is no irreperable damage here, except amongst a few geeks. Geeks do not a market make.
Your comment makes my point. Nokia's remaining options for growth are in emerging markets.
Year after year of shoddy release, culminating in the twin disasters of the N97 and E72, damaged their reputation in most of Europe. North America? Well, they've been dead a long time there and are never coming back.
I'm sorry, but the N97 "Experience" has left me cold, never again Nokia. Not only is the device under-powered, the software being churned out for it is on the whole, rubbish.
Than there is the question of the lack of Customer Service, it's bad enough not being able to understand the person on the other end of a phone line, because they don't speak (or understand) English the way Aussies do, but even when I emailed them, I got a "form" response that did not address one point of the complaint I had taken so long to compose in the simplest terms.
If I contact "Nokia Australia" I expect to be speaking to an Australian, not someone who speak another form of English that is completely undecipherable to us!
It will be a Windows Mobile 7 phone for me next methinks!
Colin J Richardson
Australia
Jimmy1 wrote:Your comment makes my point. Nokia's remaining options for growth are in emerging markets.Year after year of shoddy release, culminating in the twin disasters of the N97 and E72, damaged their reputation in most of Europe. North America? Well, they've been dead a long time there and are never coming back.
I wasn't thinking of emerging markets ("emerging" is an interesting term for markets that are already bigger than western markets).
Those entry level Symbian touch phones are being sold in Europe, to grab new smartphone customers, ex dumb-phone users and kids. These new customers will move up to more advanced Nokia phones if they are good.
I would be very disappointed if people were so idiot so as to harbour a prejudice based on one particular period. If a phone is good then it's good regardless of what happened last year or the year before.
I completely fail to see how Motorola selling crap products for years and then coming back with the Droid makes your point at all. My point is that a few anal geeks are the people that are complaining about N97, the VAST majority of the market is unaffected. You can go to any consumer forum to see that there are very different discussions.
Who the **** tries to deal with customer services of any tech gadget company? They've been a dead loss for years. That's not just a Nokia thing, that's an industry sector thing - in fact it's the companies being pragmatic.
The last time I bothered trying to contact any of these companies was.....never. No point.
It's comforting to hear that they know they had huge problems, and they really did care about fixing them. But the more important question is what does the future bring? This idea that one hardware family exists for the software is pure crap. Symbian^3 needs to do what HTC does, and load the phone with great hardware. 512MB of RAM, 1 GHz processors, and PLENTY of phone memory, I say give the flagships at least 1GB, everybody else, 512MB free.
What about the hardware?? like low ram and c drive memory. also i wonder if t hey could make the cpu faster?? such a bad quality device. would we get compensation then
symbianst3ph3n wrote:What about the hardware?? like low ram and c drive memory. also i wonder if t hey could make the cpu faster?? such a bad quality device. would we get compensation then
Compensation ? LOL! People want compensation for their own bad buying decisions, people have consumer rights which allow them to return items if they are not fit for the purpose, or not of merchantable quality. Possibly these memory errors mean that the device is returnable, and many people did return them.
However, if you brought a piece of crap (should have done your research) and then kept it then why should anyone be compensated?
It was the N97 that's made me turn against Nokia. I purchased it last June, a highly anticipated purchase, after owning Nokia phones _exclusively_ since 1997. In those twelve years, I have purchased nine Nokia phones, including the N97, E71, E70, E61, 8260, etc etc...
The N97 was the most expensive phone I had ever purchased, ever. And. It. SUCKED! Okay, sure, compared to my previous phones it was not bad, but all of the issues that have been raised in review after review - the stupid camera cover that scratched the lens, the poor performance of the GPS, the idiotic memory allocation, the constant and ridiculous configuration problems, the hassle getting it to respond to my university's 802.1x wifi system, the poorly performing touchscreen, the tacky keyboard ... It was shockingly bad. By September of last year, I was fed up and angry that this company, which had always produced great phones, had so badly stumbled. Beyond the hardware problems, though, lies a land that Nokia barely understands, and this is why I now utterly, totally, love the phone I have: content.
It wasn't even the hardware problems, you see, that drove me away from the N97. It was the Ovi store. Was it the chaotic menus? The badly screened software? the expensive and poor performance of the few programs I did end up purchasing? the incredibly slow pace of new software? or all of the above?
I now have an iPhone 3gs. It has a few problems, true, but it's got 32gigs of storage, just like the N97. I never have to second-guess what that storage is doing. It immediately connected to my university's wifi system: username, password, and boom. Connected. It has a marvelous touchscreen. Sure, there are issues and relatively minor annoyances, and it would be nice to have an FM transmitter/receiver, but what makes the difference? content.
The iPhone's hardware, you see, is just the tip of an iceberg. Nokia needs to wake up - its absurdly bad Ovi store is not just a revenue-stream failure, it represents the failure of an entire paradigm. The iPhone delivers cheap, good, well-programmed CONTENT. It's not just a phone, but a content-engine. Nokia hasn't just missed the boat or the fleet; it's missed the entire continent of content that the iPhone delivers.
So live and learn: no more Nokia, at least for a long while. Thanks; it's been awesome - well - up to that last thing; you know, the one that was stupidly expensive and, in the end, kinda sucked.
-Richard.
Unregistered wrote:
I now have an iPhone 3gs. It has a few problems, true, but it's got 32gigs of storage, just like the N97. I never have to second-guess what that storage is doing. It immediately connected to my university's wifi system: username, password, and boom. Connected. It has a marvelous touchscreen. Sure, there are issues and relatively minor annoyances, and it would be nice to have an FM transmitter/receiver, but what makes the difference? content.The iPhone's hardware, you see, is just the tip of an iceberg. Nokia needs to wake up - its absurdly bad Ovi store is not just a revenue-stream failure, it represents the failure of an entire paradigm. The iPhone delivers cheap, good, well-programmed CONTENT. It's not just a phone, but a content-engine. Nokia hasn't just missed the boat or the fleet; it's missed the entire continent of content that the iPhone delivers.
So live and learn: no more Nokia, at least for a long while. Thanks; it's been awesome - well - up to that last thing; you know, the one that was stupidly expensive and, in the end, kinda sucked.
-Richard.
I have an iPhone also and I am slowly getting more and more annoyed with this one app at a time thing. Imagine you are doing something in an app, and you have spent time setting up where you are, or perhaps you are midway through a game. Then a text arrives and a transparent window pops up offering you the chance to reply. You accept the reply option and bang! The app and everything you had been doing is back to square one. You have to restart it! Same thing happens when you start an app and the app needs an option switched on so you accept, it then starts up the Settings App, closing down your original app. That's just so crap. It's not necessary to offer full multi-tasking, just persistence of state would do.
As for Ovi store being a "revenue stream failure" where did you hear that? I understand that it is doing fine. As for content on the app store, yes there are some gems but it's 90% dross. Countless times I've tried a download and immediately removed it. For example, Hands Heater? Fart Piano? It's also full of repetition.
There are also a list of problems and issues with the iPhone that are more than minor annoyances.
However, cannot disagree about the N97, it doesn't meet the expectations of its price bracket, I have no idea why so many people still went ahead and bought one!
phone quality shud be tested. Anyway it was early before anyone discovered the bad gps and scratched lens...i cant return it cos its on contract and it takes money to cancel it.....
symbianst3ph3n wrote:phone quality shud be tested. Anyway it was early before anyone discovered the bad gps and scratched lens...i cant return it cos its on contract and it takes money to cancel it.....
Nokia are fixing the lens cover and the bad batch of GPS for free.
Yeah there's been lessons learnt but it's all been at the expence of the user. �499.99 for an underpowered device with an OS full of freaking bugs it's been 7 months of pure hell and that statement could have opened up a can of worms for the company.
As much as I like to hear them admit that this first half of the N97's life has been a failure "a little too late from my point of view next phone will be android based" this might just bring on a few lawsuits.
Unregistered wrote:
As for Ovi store being a "revenue stream failure" where did you hear that? I understand that it is doing fine. As for content on the app store, yes there are some gems but it's 90% dross. Countless times I've tried a download and immediately removed it. For example, Hands Heater? Fart Piano? It's also full of repetition.
I believe the previous poster, when referring to content, wasn't so much talking about the app store, as he was the iTunes store: the latest feature films, TV shows (entire season pass), music, etc. etc.
In that respect, yes, the iPod/iPhone has one of the world's best content store's anywhere. They're the second largest seller of music in North America.
When you type in 'movies' in the Ovi store, the only thing you get is a couple of movie trailers. That's pretty weak IMO.
Microsoft's Zune Marketplace (another walled garden like iTunes) and Amazon are also pretty great places to get content.
Its nice to know that Nokia have learnt from it's mistakes - at my expense! I have lost countless hours performing hard/soft resets on this phone due to "white screen of death". The phone has been replaced 3 times and I still HATE it. It took me 3 hours just to turn the damn thing on the other day! Not good when I spend over �60 per month for it! Last ever Nokia I will buy I have to say. It would be interesting to see if Nokia will compensate us early adopters of this "flagship" device for the constant performance issues. I have invested a lot of time and money into this, frankly, useless device.
Poor show Nokia.
i got n97 in last dec this is my first smart phone and i had many nokia phones very thrilled about my first touch phone and when i got and compared with ohter phones just only one thing got in my mind nokia fffuuuuked me definetly
these are the things that i felt bad
the touch screen interface is utterly bad [every time i tried to keypad] offcource i was little relieved with the update but where is the multi touch and all apps looks like other nokia low end phones
processor and ram noo no we should not talk about it [ now this is old story]
and the famous multi task every time i do multi task my phone hanged me everytime
screen utterly useless very smmaal and resolution is at low end i dont know about iphone specs but videos on iphone very smooth
ooh how could i forget free gps is this only makes a phoe supper great oh god
every app that come with nokia phone are same atleast all 5530 ,5580 some scratch phones all have same kind of user interface and gives same kind of felling and the ovi store how many apps are there i tried to download some content but really i got supriced i have seen all aPPS IN merely 2-3 mints are they enough for n97
this is why nokia failing in high end phones apple, google [atleast android based platforms] going to overtake nokia in smartphones and may be nokia will be in business for low end phone or under 20-30$ phone
nokia says n97 is flagship and high end phone common nokia u may cheat people like me once , twice but not any more i got 1100, 3100, 6600 7610, n73 and now n97 and n97 and n97 is going to my last phone i promise nokia
They needed to do this. Admission of guilt is a pre-requisite to being given a second chance. Symbian ^3 better be amazing. No one remembers the disaster (perforamce wise) of iPhone OS 2.0 for a good reason.
Its interesting to see a range of reaction.. I do understand that some people feel they will never buy a Nokia device agin... but the idea that one device can put all people off is frankly ridiculous. Yes geeks will be more impacted, but as a proportion this is very very small. The N97 issues are much smaller than say a battery recall (as has happened a few times)...
That's not to say I don't think the N97 damaged Nokia, but I really don't see it as a long term issue (assuming it doesn't happen again). I know it drives people up the wall personally but it is a matter of perspective... You can find these examples everywhere in consumers retail and especially in mobile...
n97 design itself is crappy apart from feauters smart phones demand good screen size and good interface i dont know who made the mistake either from symbian or nokia made n97 look like an ordinary phone just little improvemnet over previous models same kinda userinterface for flagship model at the same time both apple and google came with superb feauters which made n97 lokk like utter
buyers are freightend to muy one more crappy phone from nokia when they can have better phones in market thats why nokia lost its smartphone market to others
Although they've admitted that they made a mistake with the N97, they haven't exactly learnt anything from it.
The rather awful and expensive X6 is in the same boat as the N97 is/was, with the same outdated hardware, and the same cumbersome OS. If you compare both the N97 and X6 with other expensive smartphones, their hardware pales in comparison. The worst part about it is, that most people will have entered lengthy contracts, unable to replace their phone if they're unhappy about it. I honestly don't know how Nokia expected the hardware of both phones to last for two years, whilst competing with all the newest handsets.
I had my N97 for about 6 months, in which time I had to a) get the whole phone replaced because the vibrate didn't work and b) get the screen replaced because the resistive layer didn't work properly. I've finally sold it, and to be honest, I'm really glad it's out of my life.
I have a funny feeling Android will be the OS of choice for a lot of the unhappy S60 users, including myself.
I would say the N96 suffered a similar fate to the N97 and others discussed here - poor hardware specs, making it horribly slow and at times, completely unusable. It often locks up or resets for no apparent reason. Dealing with customer service is something to dread and avoid, because that experience is almost worse than trying to use the handset.
I have been a Nokia customer continuously for over 10 years across multiple carriers and contracts, but the experience has been so terrible with this device, I can't say I'm even mildly keen to get another one. These were meant to be flagship devices, but just ended up being shipwrecks. They need to look at the success of (admittedly older) handsets like the 6310i that did everything you needed a phone to do (at that point in time), did it extremely well and fast. Everyone I know had one, and the large corporate I was working at at the time bought them almost exclusively. I could get by with charging the battery once a week or so, even with heavy use. I have to charge the N96 every single night without fail - with light use - otherwise it's dead by 10am the next day. If I use any single "advanced" feature like wifi, video and music playback, web browsing, camera, or gaming for no more than an hour, the battery is dead within three.
What is Mr Vanjoki going to do for _me_ (and others in my position) that have been so burnt by Nokia and their "flagship smartphone" devices that fail to live up to even mild expectations, let alone Nokia's bollocks advertising who-ha that goes with them?
I only recently got my Nokia N97 for EUR 350 and I must say it is the best purchase I've made. The iPhone barely stands in competition, half of the price you pay there is for "looking slick" (when in fact I find it quite bulky). I guess it is all in how much you pay for what you get.
I am really looking forward to Nokia releasing their new model next year, right now (especially with the below estimate Q1 figures they released today) they feel like a wounded animal and will come with something pretty special to regain their stance.
I think people should be realistic though. For example it is a new platfrom and updates will be needed - the difference is the technology and processes will be in place to provide them. And remember S^3 is a step on the road to S^4. A bit of common sense about how big companies operate is also necessary...
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