At Mobile World Congress, I sat down with Anssi Vanjoki, EVP of Markets at Nokia, to talk about the Nokia N97. The highly anticipated device was released last summer and while it has been a commercial success for Nokia, it has been subject to a great deal of criticism from consumers for its software and underpowered hardware.
With the release of version 20 and 21 of the firmware, many of the software issues have been resolved. In the video, Anssi Vanjoki acknowledges the issues and explains how Nokia has learnt important lessons, which have been fed into the process of creating Symbian^3 and Symbian^3 devices. He says that "we have taken the learnings and when Symbian^3 comes out you can rest assured it will be perfect".
Read on in the full article.
How will Nokia deal with N97. Will it release more firmware updates?
Interesting stuff - am I picking up on this correctly or is Mr Vanjoki giving preview of fairly major (by sounds of it) new firmware for N97 or is this just a reference to the release of V2.1?
Notice how the issue of underpowered hardware was completely ignored, only software was discussed here......
Honestly.....That was the nicest interview i have experienced from ANY executive! No BS, no excuses, nothing, he admitted to everything and explained openly and with reasoning. It is very very important that they communicate (to Nokia fans like me) in this way, giving us hope that they truly are willing to solve the problems, and really are evolving to bring out the best products for the consumer. This makes me really excited about the next coming months, as i am more than ready for the next flagship!😊
Just a side note, i am partial in many ways, but i have to say that i am happy that Nokia is Finnish as Finns are really down-to-earth and honest people, it is difficult for me to imagine e.g. a large US corporation talk this openly about a product failure/problem (without giving lame excuses). Nevertheless, it all feels good now! Godspeed Nokia
The software discussion was in reference to v20 and v21 - those already released.
And hardware was discussed (perhaps not as obvisouly). It's important to understand that arond software releases you get hardware families (i.e. there's a [sometimes multiple ones] hardware family for each software release) - this is one of the reasons you can make platform phones more cheaply - it significantly cuts the cost of integration.
Moreover they say, with regards to Symbian^1 / Symbian^1 family hardware platform, that "we stretched for too long, something which should not have been stretched".
To be fair, to my mind, that doesn't really excuse the internal C drive issues, but I think when most people talk under powered they are making reference to the processors and RAM, which is effectively fixed for the duration of a hardware family (and yes there is more to it than that, but... to keeping things simple).
Be interesting to see if they do any favours for N97 owners to compensate them for their "disappointing user experiences" and "unacceptable delay" in fixing it.
It's great to know they've learned lessons and are taking them forward into SF^3 devices (I sooooo hope they have because the backlash will be frightening otherwise) but it's a little frustrating to have be part of one of the largest Beta testing Guinea Pigs programme and paid for the pleasure. i.e. what's in it for me and the device I'm stuck with for another 12mths+?
Was the release of nokia ovi maps linked to the downfall of the N97 ?
Guys, next time you have opportunity to ask something about Symbian ask if Nokia will allow OS upgrades in the future. It would be good for consumers that they could get the latest OS if their hardware is capable.
snoFlake wrote:Be interesting to see if they do any favours for N97 owners to compensate them for their "disappointing user experiences" and "unacceptable delay" in fixing it.It's great to know they've learned lessons and are taking them forward into SF^3 devices (I sooooo hope they have because the backlash will be frightening otherwise) but it's a little frustrating to have be part of one of the largest Beta testing Guinea Pigs programme and paid for the pleasure. i.e. what's in it for me and the device I'm stuck with for another 12mths+?
I think the software update to v20 / v21 is it (in terms of a fix). Yes it is not perfect - but it a massive improvement over the original firmware. Annoying to be a guinea big - absolutely. Is it ideal? No, but I'd rather they be honest about it. It's clear that the strength of reaction was a suprise and I think that more than anything is what they need to take away.
And yes we'll have to wait and see on S^3 devices. I think people should be realistic though. For example it is a new platfrom and updates will be needed - the difference is the technology and processes will be in place to provide them. And remember S^3 is a step on the road to S^4. A bit of common sense about how big companies operate is also necessary...
Unregistered wrote:Was the release of nokia ovi maps linked to the downfall of the N97 ?
No, this has been on the cards for a long time (as you'll see in another upcoming interview). Timing is probably around a desire to lead the market (i.e. navigation was always heading towards free...)
Unregistered wrote:Guys, next time you have opportunity to ask something about Symbian ask if Nokia will allow OS upgrades in the future. It would be good for consumers that they could get the latest OS if their hardware is capable.
I did ask about this (in another interview), and while there was not a direct answer it is defintely more likely now than it ever was before. I think there maybe an exception S^3 to S^4... but beyond that... At this stage there's no way you would get a concrete committment on that.
Well, the only _honest_ answer regarding the N97 is "Well, we fucked it up". Nice to see that at least one Nokia representative is admitting this more or less.
What I don't understand is: When will companies learn that "repairing" a bad product takes much, much more effort that selling a good one. With a working product you can deliver firmware updates with new functions and concentrate on new products, not (have to) deliver firmware updates that make a already sold product usable.
And - as it has already been mentioned - NO firmware update will ever solve hardware issues.
The product designer team of the N97 really should be punished for their stupid decision regarding C-drive and RAM size.
The N97 could have been a real winner, now it's not better than mediocre.
Unregistered wrote:Guys, next time you have opportunity to ask something about Symbian ask if Nokia will allow OS upgrades in the future. It would be good for consumers that they could get the latest OS if their hardware is capable.
I really doubt that this will ever happen. The E71 was the perfect device to upgrade as FP2 was already available in a branded AT&T version, but it was not given to the rest of E71 users.
Nokia sells devices. If you have the chance to upgrade your device to the latest OS version, why should you buy a new device (if you're not a freak).
Actually it was N97 who made me lose hope with Nokia. I used to be a Nokia fan (now I'm an admirer, I guess) but the expectations I had with N97 and then the delivery was very different.
N97 marked Nokia in a lot of ways and most of them not positive...
I truly hope that Nokia turns around again, but knowing how things are in Finland (painfully slow) it will take a while unless they start to think way too many years ahead.
See how Android and iPhone are getting the lead in smartphones. It's not just a matter of market share, because it is increasing slowly. with this new trend of smartphones, we are now seeing high-end smartphones and low end smartphones, but they're all considered to the "smartphone" label. And Nokia is the king of low-end smartphones. High end? It's not as strong as it was and it's loosing power by the day. Hopefully S^3 will change it but unless they bring some hardware to match it, it can be another disaster for Nokia. And at acertain point you will have to wonder... how many can they handle..
Hmm. Anssi Vanjoki saying everything will be great next year...
I remember him announcing the N97 at Nokia World 2008. We then had a chance to use prototype devices and it was clearly miles away from what was needed. It eventually launched about a year later...
My mate who has one really likes it though. Maybe price set the expectations too high.
I did not have to hear what they think about mistakes they made with N97, want to know how and when will they repair the N97? What about 700 euros that we payed for a phone that is low quality ? How will Nokia compensate us? I will give you an answer as well NOWAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Its funny to still see people complain about the underpowered hardware even today on the N97. I find it amusing because why?
Ever since the N97 vs Omnia debate first started with the release of both phone's specifications, I have always said that the extra hardware in the Omnia will only go to waste - because there will be little to no support of it from a commercial perspective. The biggest problem that the entire Symbian community faces is that the baseline for Symbian is still at a level developed over 5 years ago (S60v3).
Even IF the N97 came with a Gigahertz processor with enough 3D capabilities to match modern video cards - it would mean nothing because you have the garbage software companies still churning out Java shite that does nothing for the hardware. It happened for the N95, It happened for the OMNIA i8910 and will keep repeating itself because software companies favour majority marketshare (lowest common denominator).. they cant give a stuff about the extra effort for the higher end hardware as they do not gain the same Return on Investment there.
Symbian^3 is a refreshing change as it will not only mean a new operating system - but also a fresh platform standard to run by. At least it will be competitive to iphone (which has the lowest common denominator to be the original 1G iphone - comparable to the N95).
Flagship Smartphones are only as good as what supports them - the nature of the company or organisations that own the platform and the development work behind it to make the things better:
post sales extra capabilities = happy customer
(this was proven lately by OVI Maps going free)..
How about CHINA? Next interview should focus on the dust issues and hardware stuff on some eseries and other Nokia products. Basing the thought on www.theprodigalguide.com
bchliu wrote:Its funny to still see people complain about the underpowered hardware even today on the N97. I find it amusing because why?Ever since the N97 vs Omnia debate first started with the release of both phone's specifications, I have always said that the extra hardware in the Omnia will only go to waste - because there will be little to no support of it from a commercial perspective. The biggest problem that the entire Symbian community faces is that the baseline for Symbian is still at a level developed over 5 years ago (S60v3).
Even IF the N97 came with a Gigahertz processor with enough 3D capabilities to match modern video cards - it would mean nothing because you have the garbage software companies still churning out Java shite that does nothing for the hardware. It happened for the N95, It happened for the OMNIA i8910 and will keep repeating itself because software companies favour majority marketshare (lowest common denominator).. they cant give a stuff about the extra effort for the higher end hardware as they do not gain the same Return on Investment there.
Symbian^3 is a refreshing change as it will not only mean a new operating system - but also a fresh platform standard to run by. At least it will be competitive to iphone (which has the lowest common denominator to be the original 1G iphone - comparable to the N95).
Flagship Smartphones are only as good as what supports them - the nature of the company or organisations that own the platform and the development work behind it to make the things better:
post sales extra capabilities = happy customer
(this was proven lately by OVI Maps going free)..
Then Nokia should not rip off people with the high prices if it doesn't have the hardware inside!!!
The extra ooomph doesn't only help in games.
I had it all tricked out, kept it for a week, but in the end, I just found it totally unacceptable that I had to even worry about the RAM on a high-end flagship device! Then I saw that the NAM model was still not getting the latest FW via OTA and was doubly frustrated. (What's with that Mr. Vanjoki?) Yet, I doubt that even the latest FW could recover enough RAM to make a practical difference. Seeing your OS teeter on the edge with only 12MB of RAM is stupid, and that's just with Opera Mobile and Email running! Arbitrarily quitting applications in the background shouldn't even be considered a solution.
That said, I love still S60 because no other OS out there gives you the "old fashioned" freedom to do as much with the hardware. I hope they keep it that way with S^3, because I need to carry, edit and work with (100s of) files locally, record calls (I'm a journalist), tether out of the box, sync USB drive, etc.
I'm so desperate that I would jump on the Vivaz - but then I'd lose Ovi store... Is Nokia really serious about perpetuating S60 development?
I had the N97 for about two months and it was an experience I hope I never have to go through again in my life. Torture!
Better late than never to admit to failure but the damage has already been done.
I got burned by 5th edition and I have moved on (and I suspect many many others) to another platform.
"Like I said, that was a surprise to us. It was not expected."
...'scuse me? What exactly came as an unexpected surprise? I can't believe with all the testing and everything they supposedly do before releasing a product, they didn't notice how inadequate the harware was for what all the phone's supposed to be capable of? It's not something that "slips", for sanity's sake! It's the overall general user experience and usability of the device, how on earth could that "slip"?
And yeah, well, I don't think admitting what a tremendous success it has been in terms of units sold and profit made is appropriate here. Hullo? Yeah the software is, by now, tested by "normal people" - but us, these "normal people" have paid a fortune to participate in a beta test. Beta testers volunteer for enthusiasm or because they're paid for doing the job; they don't spend their own money to be able to be part of something like this.
Arthur, is that you, Stefan?
Reading all the people complaining and wanting something from Nokia because they are not happy with the N97 they bought for 700 euros really does make me laugh.
I have just got to ask the question, why did they go and pay 700 euros for a phone they don't like??????
Did they pay 700 euros for something sight unseen without checking it out first? If they did then they can't blame Nokia, they only have themselves to blame. Idiots. There is no point complaining about Nokia if you are stupid enough to go and do a thing like that.
There's one born every minute.
@unregistered: They presumaly bought it because they had trust in the brand 'Nokia'. The dangerous thing in the N97 fiasco is therefore that the N97 commercial success translates in a lot of unhappy customers who now associate Nokia with buggy software, insufficient hardware and an overall bad experience. A lot of them will now think twice before buying a Nokia or Symbian phone again.
Look, the launch of the N97 was a disaster. Nobody is denying that, and luckily Nokia knows this as well.
As for the N97 in it's current incarnation with the latest firmware 2.1 and/or the N97Mini - it is ACTUALLY quite a DECENT device!
I'd much rather stick with my N97 than buy a HTC Hero, or iPhone 3G, for approx. the same price for numerous reasons, among those are:
- 32 GB storage, which is freakin' genius.
- FM Transmitter - use that a LOT, when driving back and forth to work.
- Free Navigation (which I use occasionally)
- Browser is perhaps a little slow or clumiser compared to iPhone, BUT VASTLY better in terms things it does.
- AND I also installed SkyFire browser, which is even more amazing, since it support both Flash AND Silverlight, meaning that I can net-radios and stuff from PC sites. Give me ONE Android or Apple device that can do that? Guess not, huh?
- Screen is bigger and has better resolution.
- Podcasting fucking rocks on the N97. Work flawlessly.
- Gravity is propably the best Twitter app there is, period.
- The camera is freakin' AEONS ahead of ANYTHING HTC or Apple, fact (so cut the crap..).
- The C: drive space issue on the N97-classic is a non-issue, once you figure it out that the E: drive is the way to go. Otherwise go for the N97Mini, and everything is fine.
Actually the ONLY thing that I miss from time to time is more RAM and a slightly faster CPU (most prominent when it comes to games), which is EXACTLY what will be adressed in the coming devices from Nokia et.al.. Symbian Foundation's minimum reference platform is actually a Coretex A8 CPU with OpenGL ES 2.0 graphics based piece of hardware....so, again...cut the crap.
@Nemoi + 1
A point I've been trying to convey for a long time - it would almost have been better if it had been a commercial failure because as you say it could just translate into more users who've had a chance to compare Nokia flagship with other flagships often to it's detriment.
@all - Not trying to say the N97 doesn't work at all (although it does seem to have it's moments when it can seem like it - JOKE 😉 ) in fact it may well be the best (feature wise) Nokia - certainly N series , ever. But, and here's the rub, it didn't represent a good value buy when compared to the iPhone 3GS or HTC Hero both comparable devices available at very similar market time slots regardless of whether you hate those systems or not really. If it had been priced at only �100 more than the 5800 it's flaws would have been far more excusable, even acceptable but when pitched at the price it was it had to play on the grown-ups playing field.
I do agree with Nemoi that this flawed experience for some/many will give them pause for thought before buying another Nokia flagship which is to the detriment of Nokia.
How about the lens scratching issues and running out of RAM, where these covered at all?
In any case, Anssi Vanjoki showed great opennes by admiting there have been at least these software problems.
Let's just hope Nokia will stop cutting corners with too small memory, weak CPUs and over-cheap plastic design in their future high-end smartphones. Symbian^3 will not solve these problems.
Most mobile companies are expecting better sales results this year. Nokia won't get much of it due to their huge mistakes with their last flagship. I sincerely regret convincing my brother and my co-worker into buying a N97 as I did. I doubt whether I will be buying another Nokia/Symbian phone in the future. Maybe I will. But certainly I won't be taking other people into Nokia/Symbian's "end-user beta-testing nightmare" for sure. If I was unsure of changing to another mobile platform before, I'm more than ready now.
Nemoi wrote:@unregistered: They presumaly bought it because they had trust in the brand 'Nokia'. The dangerous thing in the N97 fiasco is therefore that the N97 commercial success translates in a lot of unhappy customers who now associate Nokia with buggy software, insufficient hardware and an overall bad experience. A lot of them will now think twice before buying a Nokia or Symbian phone again.
Well personally I wouldn't touch any new handset from any manufacturer until it's been out there and shaken down and I've had the thing on trial and played with it. I also wait for the inevitable price drop.
If people have had an experience that will make them think twice, then good. Hopefully they have learned something and are a little less naive. This "thinking twice" thing should be applied to a lot of other things too.
yes, n97 hardware platform was way too old.
434mhz arm11 was way too old. to slow. no 3d acceleration.
128mb ram. really?
they called it a flagship........
really crap really.
hopefully nokia dont get stuck with trying to save a few bucks again on hardware. they really need to give it their all, because players like htc, sony, moto, samsung, aren't shy to produce phones with the best internals.