Ovi Maps now down to 'admin charges' levels for older phones

... is that it makes the GPS not work when you most need it.

On my recent visit to finland, I had to spend a gopod half hour reconfiguring the GPS before I was able to use. The problem: I switched to a local SIM card, like many of us do when we come to a new country.

Tried to use use the GPS... Maps informed me that the license needs to be transferred to the new SIM. I pressed yes. After a while, my route simply disappeared without any further prompt. Tried a again, the same results-

Figured on my own that the problem might be that I would have to internet-enable the phone. Thankfully, it is possible to access the internet with a pre-paid SIM card in Finland (Unlike US T-Mobile Pre-paid, and many, many other plcaes.) Once I had the operator service message installed, which took some time as that was not the first time I was using the SIM, I had a valic packet data access point.

Tried again, the same thing.

go to the maps settings, and change the default access point to Elisa Internet. Tried to plan my route. The same result as before (I have no idea why it didn't work this time)

Now Back to options, and specifically choosing Update Licenses. this time it worked. But who is willing to go through all that just to get to drive from the Airport. Tiread and cranky after flying all night -- I was ready to throw my E71 out of the car window.

Besides, the great majority of phone users would not know how to get it to work.

During my recent visits to Sweden and the US I was not that lucky. The GPS remained dead until I got to where I was going and was able to update the licence using WLAN.

What really sucks with Ovi Maps Licencing, is that it lets you down when you most need it. It works home where you know your way around, but venture to a place you'd be lost without it, and the chances are you will be lost with a dead navigator.

Nokia should be doing more (like pumping out Ovi maps for older FP2 phones) to keep customers (like me) from jumping over to other brands when they upgrade. The current Nokia phones don't compel me to do an early upgrade from my N85, but I'd be willing to hold out until Symbian^3 phones come out if they were still getting fresh new software upgrades for my current phone. Otherwise switching to Android gets more and more compelling

What total crap. Nokia are offering something new for owners of older phones (ie. heavily subsidised navigation), and all people can say is "why should I have to pay for it at all".

And the fact that "your phone is still under contract" has nothing to do with Nokia; that's between you and your operator.

I am absolutely stunned at the greed and the "gimme gimme" attitude of those pathetic owners who feel that they should be given everthing for free. Sure, I would like this for free as well, but the difference is that I don't EXPECT or DEMAND it...

And those people saying that they will change phone provider simply because Nokia won't give them free navigation; all I can say is "good luck", because I doubt any other manufacturer will be as accomodating as Nokia have been in this case.

To all you whiners contemplating the move to android/iphone, ohh please do..and save yourselves (and others) from your misery. I have an N82, I did not expect free nav for it, so I went ahead an bought a 5800. Yes new owners do not have to pay for it coz they fork out money to buy new devices, so get over it. This is fantastic news, its freakin cheap!!! If thats not good enough for you then go buy your androids. But yes I believe N86 owners deserve this so here's hoping Nokia to fix that.

I'm still hoping the free navigation officially makes it onto the N86.

If it doesn't, I'll just download a version for E72 and install that.

With regard to the camera on the N86, I use it for video - it's really handy and I think gives great results, as seen below:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-9MzjRfjJY

Im form India and own an e71

I dont understand all the moans and groans, come on people wise up,

where else can i get navigation at these prices ??

Now dont show me google maps, i cant pre load them and it would cost me more to download when im on roaming..

Just quickly posting to echo the annoyance at people spouting their pathetic disdain towards Nokia for doing this. Why do you expect you should be given it?

Before you get on your high horse and spout "Never again with Nokia" claptrap, honestly ask yourself these questions...

- When you took the handset, did you pay full price for it? Did you get it for free, or heavily subsidised?
- Does your current handset do everything you were led to believe it would do when you got it? Or maybe more?
- If Nokia had completely ignored the current owners and stated that from the next round of Smartphone models Ovi Maps will be free, would you still be annoyed?
- Or, to put it another way, if your contract was up for renewal, and Nokia were now offering free Sat Nav on all smartphones, would you get one?
- What other phones out there offer free Sat Nav where you are?
- Do you think it's reasonable to expect extra unplanned services from any company once you have purchased their product?

I own an N85, and yes, I'm a little disappointed that the new version doesn't look likely for me, but I think this problem has more to do with the cloudy (and potentially rushed) communication from Nokia rather than the actual situation. If I don't get it, then fine, nothing changes for me. Sure, it might change for others that were fortunate enough to be on a different upgrade cycle, but I'm not going to spit my dummy out because of that. Nokia could have easily ignored them too (and nobody would have complained at all).

I've owned a woeful Orange branded N70 - there's plenty more to life than getting pissy because of circumstance. The newer model of my car has a better gearbox. Good for them. Fairness doesn't enter into it.

I was thinking of going to a SE handset after this one, since the user interface just seemed more user-focussed, but free Sat Nav has tipped me back come the next upgrade, I think.

Simon

I'll bite my tongue and restrict my comment to all those who expect a free upgrade to providing an analogy. You buy a car the manufacturer brings out a new model that makes more power do you think for one moment that you'll be able to drive your year old model into the workshop and get the ECU updated free of charge? HELL NO! So stop your bitchin'.

Just to upset you even more, I paid for voice nav on my E90 (S60, 3rd Edition, FP1) just over a year ago, my licence has since expired and I was reluctant to pay for a new one as I may be replacing the handset soon. Having seen the low price of renewing I decided to pay for a new licence, but clicking "update licence" has just given me a fully working app without requesting payment. So it looks like if you previously paid you get the update for free.

MotorSportsFan

Stupid question perhaps but why not simply install the Ovi Maps Beta 3.04 from the Beta Labs site on the N86?

And Walk Navigation is �7.99 for a full license; is that for ever? Presumably it's another extra on top of the drive license?

Someone told me the other day that people buying a new VW van will find it goes faster than my old one, uses less fuel and is more comfortable and roomy. I think it is outrageous that new buyers get all these benefits but VW has not offered to upgrade my Van to the same specification. Its not fair - Waaaahhh

Really I would love free maps on my old Nokia but it was never part of my agrement with Nokia as others have pointed out.

Oh and it is not just about hardware, I have not noticed anyone in a 12 month contract being asked to change it to 18 months becasue that is what new customers are having to sign up to. Perhaps some people here think it would be fair for the carriers to ask existing users to agree to the same terms as new subscribers?

There are lots of good reasons to get annoyed with Nokia - this is not one of them.

Didn't the press release tell us that Ovi maps was getting free navigation, forever?

That made me assume that the ovi maps on my phone would be getting free navigation.

Call me stupid.....

I was going to step in and suggest the whingers with old phones are unrealistic, but they have taken enough of a slapping in the latter half of the thread.

To read some of them reminds me of my 8 year old complaining that his sister has more milkshake in her glass than him.

Heh! You guys are crazy. Comparing mobile phones to cars...please use your brains a bit more. 😃

I agree about excuses done by AAS (should be AAN). Can not find any unbiased info here! 😮

This is fine. Great. Awesome.

I was spitting mad when it was announced that my brand-new e71x would not be getting the free turn-by-turn directions. My particular anger was over the fact that the technology existed to make it free (simply lower the cost of the current version of maps).

Still, please keep in mind that future phones that include the maps have that calculated in the purchase price. My phone did not. As such, a reasonable and affordable price such as the one that is announced here is a very reasonable compromise by Nokia.

Drive Latin and Central America still shows as $16.99 for 30 days and $56.99 for a year.

I've got a Blackberry Curve and Nokia aren't going to give me the latest maps applications with route guidance free, that's just terrible. With customer service like that there's no way I'm buying another one.

I really really wouldn't be bothered with Nokia not releasing free navigation for older phones, but I bought my N86 in July, when I could've just as easily bought a N97 and get free navigation, but now I can't. And the worst part is, I do have Maps 3.3 and they work fine, but Nokia officially doesn't support my phone! What gives?

Would it really hurt to just add one more phone to the list? It's obviously good enough if it works on mine.. Now I wouldn't really be complaining since hey, it's working, but now I can't get Maps 3.4 to install and it would be nice if Nokia extended their support to the N86 so I'd at least have the chance of seeing this thing work on my phone as the bugs get fixed..

I really don't think this is asking for too much, the N86 isn't some older incompatible phone after all..

@ Steve Litchfield...

Steve, you're my Twitter mate, and I WILL get to the next Phones Pub Meet, for sure. But I have never ever ever thought you more wrong on every level, than I do with your personal opinion (which I nevertheless accept), here.

Let me just say that for you to think it acceptable that Nokia charge a minor administrative fee here, is flawed on every level. If it is ok for Nokia to charge a small fee, given the admin and server costs, then we ALL should be paying a SMALL fee, not a FREE fee, as us lucky newer FP2 users are currently getting with Maps 3.03 or 3.04

If it's fair for one, it's fair for all, if it's not fair for all, it's not for for ANY.

Nothing could be clearer, and or more obvious than my last remark there *lol*

Next, one other massive flaw in your logic...

Those stuck with the older version of Maps 3.01...

They are ALREADY DISAPPOINTED to miss out on newer features such as the easier new interface, Facebook Integration and location sharing, text-to-speech navigation for street names, safety cameras for free, traffic for free, city guides, and advanced new features such as wi-fi positioning for quicker first fixes.

Asking the group of people left affected by this, to be the ones to PAY, is absolutely incredible (in terms of thinking this is fine). In a real situation, those getting far less, would normally be the ones to get for free. And those getting far far more, would be those expected to pay towards this, small fee or otherwise. But doing the converse, and asking those already severely disappointed, and getting a far inferior product, to be the ones to PAY, whilst those already getting far far more, do so for FREE, is incredulous.

Worse though Steve, it makes it look like THEY are paying, so that we with far more, get it for free, and your own comments actually go as far as to reinforce this, when it talks of it being reasonable to expect THEM to pay towards server fees, but NOT at any point even mentioning the rest of us paying, that already get it free.

Why is it ok for those getting far less, to pay towards support costs, but us getting far more, are NOT expected to pay towards the still real and genuine costs Nokia face?

Finally, my last word on this... you were the very person a good while back who insisted Nokia would be well advised to make Nokia maps FREE for all.

If I recall correctly, you did not ask for Nokia to make Maps "nominal cost only" for all...

So I am more surprised at your comments here, than ever before.

But of course, you remain my genuine friend, rest assured. *lol*
----

I just think that with loyal Nokia Customers such as owners of the E71, which even now is still selling like-hotcakes, then Nokia should be putting whatever resources are necessary into making a FP1 release of Ovi Maps 3.04 to them users too.

Otherwise, let's not forget, that what this means is a sea-change, and for the first time, Nokia saying that users of older devices, will now no longer see any Maps development. That has NEVER been the case before now. So stop and pause... If THAT is the price that the new Free Ovi Maps actually really comes at, for those lucky FP2 users who can get it, then that's a very heavy price indeed 3.04 comes at, not a FREE price!

Unregistered wrote:I don't care what it costs Nokia. I don't agree that some of us should have to pay for Ovi maps while others get them for free. I have an N95 8GB. It isn't a cheap phone and it is still in contract. Yet when I try to use Ovi maps it just tells me I have to pay. I an VERY, VERY annoyed over this. I have always bought Nokia phones but, if they don't give me the maps for free, my next phone will NOT be a Nokia!!

FLAWLESS argument, as I already say in my own post above.

If it's fair for one it's fair for ALL. If it's not fair for all, it's not fair for ANY.

Don't know where Steve's going with this one *lol*

But hey, that's why I like Steve's posts so much - he's a firebrand, and this just reminds us of that!

Wicked Grins at Steve...

I am UTTERLY creased up here laughing my head off at all the defenders of this double-standards policy, and what they have to say on it, or the absolutely ridiculous analogies they use to justify or explain this. Or how they claim it's the older phone users who are whinging on.

My phone IS an E72... I DO get the fancy new maps for free - I even have 3.04 on with thel atest wi-fi positioning etc.

So I'm not a disgruntled owner of an old phone twisting on.

I'm one of the lucky few, FAIRLY AND RIGHTLY defending the rights of the injusticed others.

So that pure crap about older users whinging on, it just STINKS. On the contrary, what I am seeing here is those lucky NEW owners, having a gripe at those unlucky less fortunate ones.

If it is true that those still paying the fees are the people covering the costs so newer users can get it free, I wonder how much goading and having a go those same people would be doing, if older users stopped paying, and this lovely new Free Sat-nav they've recently got, became fully chargeable again.

Talk about shallow minded and selfish... That's all I am seeing here, not from those complaining about the costs to older phone users, but actually from those with the new phones who ARE getting it free - possibly at the ongoing expense of the very people they are having a go at...

Go figure.

As for some of the absolutely CRAP analogies I have seen here... "I have an old VW van... it's not fair the guy who just bought his gets better fuel efficiency than mine, and VW won't upgrade mine for free..."

What utter utter bollox... What a totally contrived and pathetic analogy (and it's not just yours good sir).

Let's have some real perspective here... This is a SOFTWARE only update we are talking about here... Not a shiny spanking new Volkswaggen Transporter that is being asked for!

But more to the point, and being overlooked even more by those on shiny thrones, is the fact that not only up until now, but even now, ongoing, Nokia have and still do, generally update pretty much most of their applications, software and services for older users, in most senses, such as Ovi Store Client, Chat, Messaging, and so on and so forth. They DO this already, and still ARE for other apps!

So bringing out a software only based update for Maps, which is all we are talking here, when Nokia ARE still bringing out such updates for older devices in terms of their other apps, is no big deal at all - indeed it's the general norm and expectation.

So not getting it for Ovi Maps specifically, is actually going AGAINST the norm in many respects.

So all those talking about their VW van updates - you are talking tosh, using crap analogies, and just looking like fools.

A SOFTWARE ONLY update, for devices for which Nokia ARE still releasing other types of Software Updates anyway even now, is hardly anything to see as ridiculous. On the contrary, like I say, singling out Ovi Maps for NOT getting an update, is actually going AGAINST the norm, in most cases.

So take your ridiculously far fetched analogies elsewhere please, they are rubbish.

Finally, those talking about how low the cost is for those still needing to pay (and sadly this includes you yourself Steve, as biggest offender). You strike me as missing the fundamental point here...

It's not that "the cost is low and yet they still complain".

It's the DISPARITY that is engendering the complaint, not the actual financial amount asked.

And if you all can't see that, then I don't think you even understand the implications in ANY of this at all.

The 'amount' is barely relevant, so no point saying those complaining, are greedy.

It is the DISPARITY that is engendering anger, and if you don't understand that fact, then you don't understand this debate at all...

Greetings to all,

I am a proud owner of a N95 and it definitely hurts when you know that your device isn't going to recieve the same good treatment that newer models are getting.

I cant agree more to all in this thread that are ranting of unfairness in Nokia's side of the wall.

The way things are going, I think Nokia is headed south - far, far south with all of their useless strategies. Whatever it is, Nokia is having a real hard time competing with the likes of iPhone and upcoming android devices.

I hate to admit it, but Nokia has been doing bad decisions to their target market, and all is not working on their favor.

Unregistered wrote:Still, please keep in mind that future phones that include the maps have that calculated in the purchase price. My phone did not.

That argument holds no water...

My E72 was bought a good while BEFORE the free maps announcement.

It therefore did NOT have a cost calculation for maps factored into the purchase price.

Nor did the N97, N97 mini, and many many other phones already out that do get it now for free though.

Yet there is NO cost to us for Ovi Maps now.

So there is no reason why this cannot be held to apply to even older phones.

The point I am making is that saying this can only be offered for ongoing phones so the 'real maps cost' can be factored into the phone price, is wrong on so many levels, when held against those many phones already out that also get it free, and for which the Maps Cost was NOT factored into the handset price first.

Unregistered wrote:I've got a Blackberry Curve and Nokia aren't going to give me the latest maps applications with route guidance free, that's just terrible. With customer service like that there's no way I'm buying another one.

Another example, as I mention in my post two up above, of utterly pathetic, ridiculous, and totally IRRELEVANT analogies, that are no analogy at all.

Since when did Nokia give you updates to your Blackberry Curve, for Ovi Store, Ovi Chat, Nokia Messaging, etc etc and so on and so forth...

But they ARE still doing this for owners of slightly older Nokia phones such as the E71.

And that's the point. Nokia already DO EXACTLY ALL OF THIS that you lot are CLAIMING IS SO UTTERLY RIDICULOUS A NOTION.

It is already being done, day in day out.

The ONLY difference here, is that for reasons best known to Nokia, they have elected to single out Ovi Maps so that this WON'T be done for THAT App in future.

So your pathetic and ridiculous 'analogies' of Blackberries, VW vans, and god knows what else there is for us to laugh our heads off over in the thread posts above, are just embarrassing in the extreme.

You lot claim it is ridiculous of us to expect Nokia to release what is simply a SOFTWARE only update, for fairly modern Nokia phones...

...When yet this is EXACTLY what they DO do already, day in, day out, and the only problem here, is that Ovi Maps now seems to have suddenly been singled out for no more of this in future, whilst other apps WILL continue to see the very things you lot claim to be so ridiculous.

Doh... give me strength!

shadamehr wrote:@ Steve Litchfield...

Steve, you're my Twitter mate, and I WILL get to the next Phones Pub Meet, for sure. But I have never ever ever thought you more wrong on every level, than I do with your personal opinion (which I nevertheless accept), here.

Let me just say that for you to think it acceptable that Nokia charge a minor administrative fee here, is flawed on every level. If it is ok for Nokia to charge a small fee, given the admin and server costs, then we ALL should be paying a SMALL fee, not a FREE fee, as us lucky newer FP2 users are currently getting with Maps 3.03 or 3.04

If it's fair for one, it's fair for all, if it's not fair for all, it's not for for ANY.

Nothing could be clearer, and or more obvious than my last remark there *lol*

Next, one other massive flaw in your logic...

Those stuck with the older version of Maps 3.01...

They are ALREADY DISAPPOINTED to miss out on newer features such as the easier new interface, Facebook Integration and location sharing, text-to-speech navigation for street names, safety cameras for free, traffic for free, city guides, and advanced new features such as wi-fi positioning for quicker first fixes.

Asking the group of people left affected by this, to be the ones to PAY, is absolutely incredible (in terms of thinking this is fine). In a real situation, those getting far less, would normally be the ones to get for free. And those getting far far more, would be those expected to pay towards this, small fee or otherwise. But doing the converse, and asking those already severely disappointed, and getting a far inferior product, to be the ones to PAY, whilst those already getting far far more, do so for FREE, is incredulous.

Worse though Steve, it makes it look like THEY are paying, so that we with far more, get it for free, and your own comments actually go as far as to reinforce this, when it talks of it being reasonable to expect THEM to pay towards server fees, but NOT at any point even mentioning the rest of us paying, that already get it free.

Why is it ok for those getting far less, to pay towards support costs, but us getting far more, are NOT expected to pay towards the still real and genuine costs Nokia face?

Finally, my last word on this... you were the very person a good while back who insisted Nokia would be well advised to make Nokia maps FREE for all.

If I recall correctly, you did not ask for Nokia to make Maps "nominal cost only" for all...

So I am more surprised at your comments here, than ever before.

But of course, you remain my genuine friend, rest assured. *lol*
----

I just think that with loyal Nokia Customers such as owners of the E71, which even now is still selling like-hotcakes, then Nokia should be putting whatever resources are necessary into making a FP1 release of Ovi Maps 3.04 to them users too.

Otherwise, let's not forget, that what this means is a sea-change, and for the first time, Nokia saying that users of older devices, will now no longer see any Maps development. That has NEVER been the case before now. So stop and pause... If THAT is the price that the new Free Ovi Maps actually really comes at, for those lucky FP2 users who can get it, then that's a very heavy price indeed 3.04 comes at, not a FREE price!

Unfortunately, much though we might all like it to be otherwise, Nokia isn't in the business of being fair. They are in the business of making money by selling new phones.

You might argue that Nokia would sell more phones in the long run by keeping their existing customers happy by giving out free navigation to owners of more phone models, but Nokia's management obviously doesn't agree.

I would very much like to have the free version of Ovi Maps running on my N95 but since it isn't on offer I will either choose to pay a small fee or choose to do without it.

I actually think Nokia have played this reasonably well for a change. They have made Maps available for free on enough devices to have it be big, market changing event, but they haven't made it available to the 100M or so FP1 owners (like me) who would otherwise hammer their server infrastructure by downloading the software and maps even if they had no immediate plan to use them.

If you assume that 1 in 10 of those 100M FP1 users decided to download a 50Mb map (approx the size of the UK map) that would equate to approximately 475 Terabytes of download bandwidth. I suspect the nominal charge that Nokia are imposing on users of older phones is as much about managing download demand as it is about actually paying for the service admin.

xerxes wrote:Unfortunately, much though we might all like it to be otherwise, Nokia isn't in the business of being fair. They are in the business of making money by selling new phones.

Perhaps quite true. But my post was about fairness, not Nokia's business model, as it, in turn, was in direct response to Steve's post about how he saw the fairness in this. So all my post is concerned with is 'fairness'. We are ALL already wholly aware WHY this is happening as it is, perhaps.

xerxes wrote:You might argue that Nokia would sell more phones in the long run by keeping their existing customers happy by giving out free navigation to owners of more phone models, but Nokia's management obviously doesn't agree.

On the contrary, I can see only too well, sadly, why they have done this... it's surely in the HOPE of encouraging older users to upgrade to a newer Nokia, when originally they may have been wavering. Again though, that doesn't have bearing on my 'fairness' based post. Fair, and understandable, are poles apart here, as well we know.

xerxes wrote:I would very much like to have the free version of Ovi Maps running on my N95 but since it isn't on offer I will either choose to pay a small fee or choose to do without it.

Of course you will. You have no other choice. BUT, for every person that decides to upgrade to a newer Nokia to get free maps, and thus a win for Nokia, how many users will take the 'unfairness' approach to this issue, and instead see Nokia as opportunistic, and manipulative for this approach, and feel so alienated and aggrieved by their policy, they instead finally take the opportunity to upgrade to say an ANDROID device instead next time, using this as the gentle little push they've been waiting for (Don't knock it, on my Twitter Friends list, this explains the behaviour for at least four, to only ONE who is instead going to upgrade to a new Nokia as a result!)

xerxes wrote:I actually think Nokia have played this reasonably well for a change. They have made Maps available for free on enough devices to have it be big, market changing event, but they haven't made it available to the 100M or so FP1 owners (like me) who would otherwise hammer their server infrastructure by downloading the software and maps even if they had no immediate plan to use them.

If you assume that 1 in 10 of those 100M FP1 users decided to download a 50Mb map (approx the size of the UK map) that would equate to approximately 475 Terabytes of download bandwidth. I suspect the nominal charge that Nokia are imposing on users of older phones is as much about managing download demand as it is about actually paying for the service admin.

I firstly do not believe that of the Symbian devices out there, there are 100M reasonably new FP1 based devices, not hardly.

But in any event, I cannot possibly conscience a ratio whereby 1 in 10 users will download maps on the fly all the time. I think the figure/ratio for those who side-load, to those who data download, is not even remotely close to something as high as 1 in 10, especially given data costs, and the still fairly limited availability of data inclusive tariffs across the full market.

Just as well though, as the UK map is actually 156 MB, not 50 MB, as you mention, and England alone I seem to recall is 126MB.

But in any event, I don't think it is of ANY relevance whatsoever...

As what difference in ANY regard, does free navigation have to do with maps server load for Nokia...?

All those FP1 users you talk of, if the numbers are as high as you say for data-download based users, then voice nav makes no difference at all here - every single one of those users already places the very server load you talk about on Nokia's servers anyway, as they need to do this in any event, to download just the maps themselves.

So this server load is ALREADY there. Free voice nav has no bearing on it.

But if you mean the extra load for turn by turn voice commands, then in truth, this is the least relevant aspect of all, as this feature/data is small indeed (hence how Google can do Voice nav using a data connection approach in America), compared with the actual map data ALREADY being downloaded anyway, by people, even without free voice nav.

But thanks for the first sensible response I've seen in ages across this thread mate, for sure!

Overall, Nokia should be enthusiastically applauded for making turn by turn navigation free for newer devices. It's a game-changing move which most of us will benefit from. I am grateful to them for it and bought a 5800 on ebay recently as a result of the free offer.

However, it's also true that the announcement seemed to imply that all Nokia devices which have Ovi maps would have this service free, and that isn't so it seems, although the cost is now proved to be relatively small.

This last point illustrates some poor communication from Nokia. Why not say from the outset which phones would have the free turn by turn navigation and which ones wouldn't? Then we would all have known where we stood.

I'm also grateful to Steve for pointing out the low cost of turn by turn navigation on my N82. It gives me the option of continuing with this device if I don't get on so well with the 5800.

shadamehr wrote:Perhaps quite true. But my post was about fairness, not Nokia's business model, as it, in turn, was in direct response to Steve's post about how he saw the fairness in this. So all my post is concerned with is 'fairness'. We are ALL already wholly aware WHY this is happening as it is, perhaps.

On the contrary, I can see only too well, sadly, why they have done this... it's surely in the HOPE of encouraging older users to upgrade to a newer Nokia, when originally they may have been wavering. Again though, that doesn't have bearing on my 'fairness' based post. Fair, and understandable, are poles apart here, as well we know.

Of course you will. You have no other choice. BUT, for every person that decides to upgrade to a newer Nokia to get free maps, and thus a win for Nokia, how many users will take the 'unfairness' approach to this issue, and instead see Nokia as opportunistic, and manipulative for this approach, and feel so alienated and aggrieved by their policy, they instead finally take the opportunity to upgrade to say an ANDROID device instead next time, using this as the gentle little push they've been waiting for (Don't knock it, on my Twitter Friends list, this explains the behaviour for at least four, to only ONE who is instead going to upgrade to a new Nokia as a result!)

I firstly do not believe that of the Symbian devices out there, there are 100M reasonably new FP1 based devices, not hardly.

But in any event, I cannot possibly conscience a ratio whereby 1 in 10 users will download maps on the fly all the time. I think the figure/ratio for those who side-load, to those who data download, is not even remotely close to something as high as 1 in 10, especially given data costs, and the still fairly limited availability of data inclusive tariffs across the full market.

Just as well though, as the UK map is actually 156 MB, not 50 MB, as you mention, and England alone I seem to recall is 126MB.

But in any event, I don't think it is of ANY relevance whatsoever...

As what difference in ANY regard, does free navigation have to do with maps server load for Nokia...?

All those FP1 users you talk of, if the numbers are as high as you say for data-download based users, then voice nav makes no difference at all here - every single one of those users already places the very server load you talk about on Nokia's servers anyway, as they need to do this in any event, to download just the maps themselves.

So this server load is ALREADY there. Free voice nav has no bearing on it.

But if you mean the extra load for turn by turn voice commands, then in truth, this is the least relevant aspect of all, as this feature/data is small indeed (hence how Google can do Voice nav using a data connection approach in America), compared with the actual map data ALREADY being downloaded anyway, by people, even without free voice nav.

But thanks for the first sensible response I've seen in ages across this thread mate, for sure!

You have misunderstood my point. I was not talking about just the people downloading over the air. Serving up 475 TB of data over fixed line Internet (I will stick with that figure because I believe many country's maps are smaller than the UK) over a couple of weeks elapsed would take a massive investment in Internet bandwidth (leased lines etc) and the supporting server infrastructure needed. You could be talking about 10s or 100s of millions of pounds in investment to support this.

As to the potential number of downloaders I would think there must be easily 100M FP1 devices. This is pretty easy to estimate if I am correct that there were approx 100m Symbian devices in the wild before the release of FP1 and there are now approx 300M. If anyone has real shipment numbers that prove me wrong I happy to be corrected but you only have to look at the figure of 1M downloads of Ovi Maps 3.4 in the week after the free nav anouncement based on the limited set of phones that do currently have free nav to see that 10M downloads would not be an unlikely figure.

This is an example of Nokia's scale causing them a potentially huge (and extemely expensive) problem if they don't manage this issue carefully.

I guess the point I am making is that Nokia will do what Nokia management think is best for Nokia. They aren't concerned with what people think is "fair". And if anyone thinks that Apple or Google or HTC or Samsung or any other public company is any more guided by fairness they are sadly deluding themselves.

Apple gives users free software updates because they believe (rightly in my opinion) that doing so creates a commercial advantage by ensuring that the maximum possible number of users can continue to purchase apps from them and so further tie themselves to iPhone platform.

Google does the same thing, when their manufacturing partners allow them to, for the same reason and also because they are relying on their geek fanbase to spread the word about Android and you can't keep geeks interested in static software for very long. Google provides all their services for free because they make their money from profiling the data that we inadvertantly provid to them when we use the services.

I am not saying that Nokia's strategy is "fair" in any philosophical sense but it's probably a good one from a business perspective. They have made the marketting splash they wanted and anyone who is interested now knows that that they can get free navigation if they buy a new Nokia Symbian phone. Doing any more than that would be a waste of the company's resources at a time when they desparately need to focus on their product design, development and quality assurance processes.

One last point. Software isn't free. It costs a lot to develop it and maintain it and it certainly costs a lot to distribute it at the volumes Nokia deals with.

P.S. Thanks for the interesting discussion. I had just about given up on the comments at this site.

Just so you don't try this new service on an E71. I did and now the GPS doesn't work at all. It looks like (from the advice of a Nokia Store employee) that the only solution is to downgrade to the old maps. Thanks for nothing Nokia! Couldn't they say it wouldn't work on an E71????

What on earth is shademhr banging on about? Those rants belie a bee in a bonnet about something.

What exactly have the people who have older phones lost?

A few people have gained, good for them but their gain has not cost anybody else anything. Fairness is irrelevant. Nokia are not handing out candy in the school yard, there is no requirement or obligation on Nokia to ensure a fair share of their largesse. A line has to be drawn for pragmatic reasons and if you are on the wrong side of that line, tough shit. No promise was made for free software or any other kind of largesse.

Nokia needed to put maps out there for free to show what you get, and stimulate interest. Not to please N70 owners.

If you purchased your FP1 phone and it didn't have maps, why do you suddenly think you are entitled to maps? Was your purchase decision influenced by some indication or promise? If it was then you have homework to do and the school yard is probably where you are.

The VW analogy holds in my opinion. Nobody has any entitlement. It's Nokia's decision and they live and die by their decisions so let them get on with it. Whether the decision is right or not is reflected in the share price long term, it is irrelevant whether this geek or that anally retentive nurd is kept happy in March 2010. Like it or not, smartphone geeks are not important.