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Nokia N8 - content creation and consumption on Symbian^3

99 replies · 21,769 views · Started 27 April 2010

n8 is not iphone 4g killer infact it is n97 killer when compared both phones n8 will come in upper and even at price also but just look at the home screen same crap looking n97 like i had a n97 when ever i change the original black theme it gets hanged to me home screen and thems looks same to the n97 , may be still nokia not working on that USER INTERFACE

to me this is not the best phone to rule market but this can be best ever phone made by nokia

nokia should stop selling n97 and mini asap and ask those unhappy owners to swap their n97 and mini with n8 at much reduced price say 100$ otherwise people like me will never think of nokia

Unregistered wrote:The N900 is crap, it runs a obsolete OS, has poor phone functionality, is 2cm thick when modern phones are 1.5cm or less, doesn't have mass market appeal, etc...

If Symbian 3 UI is anything like Symbian 5th edition it's going to be called crap, hopefully it won't or will improve quickly but early indications is otherwise.

LOL you need to stop commenting on here until you get a clue what you are talking about.

The N900 was never intended to be a mass market device and Nokia have never hide this fact.

The OS is fantastic, takes a bit to get used too but once you do it is very logical and powerful.

I have already set �400 away for a new phone later in the year and I see no reason why it wont be this in orange. shame they didnt do a purple as well as I would have snapped that up.

I must be watching different videos to other people as the UI doesnt seem slow to me, you dimply cant compare running speeds of this against the Iphone, as simply put the later does not allow multi tasking, if it did then Apple know the shabby hardware would be crippled.

Unregistered wrote:n8 is not iphone 4g killer infact it is n97 killer when compared both phones n8 will come in upper and even at price also but just look at the home screen same crap looking n97 like i had a n97 when ever i change the original black theme it gets hanged to me home screen and thems looks same to the n97 , may be still nokia not working on that USER INTERFACE

to me this is not the best phone to rule market but this can be best ever phone made by nokia

nokia should stop selling n97 and mini asap and ask those unhappy owners to swap their n97 and mini with n8 at much reduced price say 100$ otherwise people like me will never think of nokia

Your opinion and my opinion may vary. I think N8 is iphone killer. The specs alone will make iphone looks really bad. 12MP carl zeis with 30% larger than most camera? real multi-tasking OS? flash the way it meant to be with no fight with adobe? Free navigation with ovi (really usefull if you go to some country and have not buy SIM card yet)?... need I continue more?

With the price around US$ 499, I think nokia is TOO generous. This will make a shake up in phone industry once this phone reach a store.

At least (for me) nokia did learn they lesson very well. Those hefty price tag of N97 really killing the N97.

And please don't forget that nokia have the S series. The ultimate series. Your fruit device ver 4.0 wouldn't stand a chance for the S8.

Actually, USB On the Go does not mean you can plug things in to the N8, it means the N8 can be plugged in to other things such as PC.

People are confusing USB OTG and USB Host Mass Storage (which is what you're describing).

Don't wory though as Symbian^3 supports this too.

Aeru wrote:What processor does it have as it is listed here http://www.forum.nokia.com/devices/N8/ as only an ARM 11 not a cortex A8???

yes, it's not arm cortex a8.
but it's arm 11 with openGL.
which mean's it might be as good as cortex a8 or surpass it.

here is a little fact.
arm cortex a8 IS based on arm 11 architecture + powerVR video card in 1 chip package.

So,
any arm 11 with video card might be as good as cortex a8 or surpass it.

Kudos for nokia for bringing back 3D to their lineup 😊

Dynite wrote:Actually, USB On the Go does not mean you can plug things in to the N8, it means the N8 can be plugged in to other things such as PC.

People are confusing USB OTG and USB Host Mass Storage (which is what you're describing).

Don't wory though as Symbian^3 supports this too.

If damien dining is the real damien dining, he is a person who is very credible to be belief. he's from nokia conversation.

@damien...
does USB OTG can be used with printer too?

Unregistered wrote:Your opinion and my opinion may vary. I think N8 is iphone killer. The specs alone will make iphone looks really bad. 12MP carl zeis with 30% larger than most camera? real multi-tasking OS? flash the way it meant to be with no fight with adobe? Free navigation with ovi (really usefull if you go to some country and have not buy SIM card yet)?... need I continue more?

With the price around US$ 499, I think nokia is TOO generous. This will make a shake up in phone industry once this phone reach a store.

At least (for me) nokia did learn they lesson very well. Those hefty price tag of N97 really killing the N97.

And please don't forget that nokia have the S series. The ultimate series. Your fruit device ver 4.0 wouldn't stand a chance for the S8.

Hey, I'll give this device a chance, but let's be real, it's no iPhone. To compete with the iPhone, you also compete against the entire ecosystem, iTunes, third party accessories, the huge developer following, etc., etc.

Nokia is better off not trying to make an 'iPhone killer' and play its own game. The very fact that people need to call it an 'iPhone killer' means it isn't one. All you're doing is highlighting Apple's dominance. Again, Nokia should be playing its own game instead of Apple's.

That said, I've owned Nokias, so I'll give this a look; they're history with software though, has me concerned. Nokia pretty much stinks at software.

By the way, AAS, I wish you guys would an 'Edit' button. It would make fixing errors possible.

Also, that was me at Unregistered, 9:48.

Unregistered wrote:If damien dining is the real damien dining, he is a person who is very credible to be belief. he's from nokia conversation.

@damien...
does USB OTG can be used with printer too?

I think you'll find more than 1 of Nokia's employees read AllAboutSymbian. *ahem*. 🙄

USB On-The-Go, often abbreviated USB OTG, is part of a supplement[1] to the USB 2.0 specification originally agreed upon in late 2001 and later revised.[2] The specification allows for devices that generally fulfill the role of being slave USB device (which might be, e. g. digital audio player or mobile phone) to a USB host (usually a desktop or notebook computer)

To Summarize,
USB OTG = acting like a USB stick.
USB (H)MS = acting like a PC, can accept USB OTG devices.

Symbian ^3 supports both.

That several Nokia employees read and post on this thread, and nobody has so far denied the non-removeable by user battery info, is all the confirmation I need.
Only 1200mAh + non-removable = EPIC FAIL.

Unregistered wrote:Hey, I'll give this device a chance, but let's be real, it's no iPhone. To compete with the iPhone, you also compete against the entire ecosystem, iTunes, third party accessories, the huge developer following, etc., etc.

Nokia is better off not trying to make an 'iPhone killer' and play its own game. The very fact that people need to call it an 'iPhone killer' means it isn't one. All you're doing is highlighting Apple's dominance. Again, Nokia should be playing its own game instead of Apple's.

That said, I've owned Nokias, so I'll give this a look; they're history with software though, has me concerned. Nokia pretty much stinks at software.

If you notice, nokia is changing the game that iphone has introduce. Nokia didn't really care about what makes iphone tick. If you notice that many have yelled over capacitive vs. restristive, etc.

While every web publisher comparing Nokia own game the ovi with istore, itunes, etc, everyone fail to notice that nokia didn't try to mimicking iphone games. nokia creating a great ecosystem of ovi with system such as nokia messaging (the push system) that only cost around US$4. It also have a more democratic store. and the openness of the 3rd party store. and the great ovi maps have data on device which mean I can navigate in a place there is no phone signal.

this phone is surely be put in the hall of history.

You can read more about USB On-the-Go here - http://www.usb.org/developers/onthego/ - I'll try and track down what use cases have been tested.

There's no definitive info on the processor yet. Forum Nokia has ARM 11 @ 680 Mhz with 3D Graphics HW Accelerator with OpenGL-ES 2.0 support (i.e. graphics co-processor). There's actually quite a few products that could potentially fit that description. Basically its some kind of SoC, as commented on earlier this could be seen as similiar to Cortex A8 package (which is why I would term it 3rd generation). I'll try and find out more details, but the above may be all that is revealed.

Removable battery - will let you know when I hear more. Suspect it will be a case of a service centre swap out. Guessing you can do this yourself too (as with dismantling current devices to change / clean screen / keyboard - not for the faint of heart. Bear in mind that power management is improved in S^3 and some of the design choices scream energy based to me.

VoIP is in Symbian^3, but you may not get the client by default (as is the case on a number of phones now).

Jimmy1 wrote:By the way, AAS, I wish you guys would an 'Edit' button. It would make fixing errors possible.

You get an edit button as a registered user.

Will do some more answers tomorrow.

Dynite wrote:I think you'll find more than 1 of Nokia's employees read AllAboutSymbian. *ahem*. 🙄

To Summarize,
USB OTG = acting like a USB stick.
USB (H)MS = acting like a PC, can accept USB OTG devices.

Symbian ^3 supports both.

😊

Correct me if I'm wrong....

So, if printer or scanner or mouse or keyboard manufacture create a driver for S3, nokia can use it.... right?

And if my other device (e.g. nokia N81, N97) have the USB cable and when I plug to PC said Mass storage, I could also plug that to N8 to transfer data between it... right?

where is the usb in N8?

I didn't any usb port in the official picture.

Unregistered wrote:😊

Correct me if I'm wrong....

So, if printer or scanner or mouse or keyboard manufacture create a driver for S3, nokia can use it.... right?

And if my other device (e.g. nokia N81, N97) have the USB cable and when I plug to PC said Mass storage, I could also plug that to N8 to transfer data between it... right?

Yes I believe that's right. You need driver and device support obviously.

Unregistered wrote:where is the usb in N8?

I didn't any usb port in the official picture.

It is a microUSB port - its on the left hand side of the device if I remember the pictures correctly.

Let me just start by saying I'm not a Nokia employee, nor am I being paid in any way by Nokia.

I don't understand what some people are complaining about. The death and doom of Nokia because the N8 does not impress...

First off, I like to carry one device in my pocket. Which means it has to

1) Be a great phone. What's the point of having a great slab build quality of signal strength is compromised? One offender that comes to mind is the HTC Legend, I think. Although we don't know much about the signal quality on this device yet, Nokia has traditionally been very good with reception and voice quality.

2) Have a great camera. I absolutely NEED to have something that replace a digital point-and-shoot. Oh, and also great video recording for those spontaneous moments in life. If you've seen some of the N8 preview photo quality shots, you'll know this camera package not just about megapixels; the sensor and encoding algorithms are really top notch. It handles sunlight beautifully, unlike some HTC/Android offerings, which tend to over-expose or have random red/purple tinges. We'll see about low-light, non-xenon shots in the future, as I haven't seen any samples yet. But keep in mind Nokia still has months to tweak low-light algorithms and, if all else fails, it has xenon. In terms of video, if the N86 is anything to go by, one can only imagine that the N8 with stereo digital microphones and one of the largest sensors (and I'm not talking just about mega-pixels, but sensor size) ever fitted to a phone will be nothing but amazing at 720p/30fps. It's very safe to say that, if Nokia gets all the algorithms right (and judging from preview samples and past history, I have no doubt they will), as a photo and video camera package, the N8 will beat all current Android offerings.

3) Great Media Player - So this has got a revamped music player with browsing made easier and more beautiful. GREAT! And music playback time is something like 36+ hours? So, with all the built-in codecs, and Coreplayer in the future, you can play pretty much any video. And this plugs into your TV with HDMI out with Dolby 5.1. You can see the decision with the stereo digital microphones and Dolby 5.1 is a very well thought out decision. What's the point of HDMI and 5.1 if the videos you recorded have crap sound quality? Or only 720p/24fps like other devices? If the video isn't butter smooth and sound quality is crap, people will be disappointed the moment they use the HDMI-out. Ummm...how many other phones on the market have this hardware? The Evo 4G? And that costs how much? And this can still do traditional VGA-out via the 3.5mm jack.

4) A great file system. I have a very organized file structure on my MicroSD card. I have loads of school documents, PDFs, Word files, Powerpoints, videos, music, podcasts, photos that are all well sorted. Symbian has traditionally had the best file system/browser. And now, the N8 has USB On-the-Go!!! Imagine just plugging in a thumb drive!! I don't think I can ever live with Apple's non-existent file system.

5) Navigation - I'm actually in a foreign country as I write, so being able to sideload map data of any country and be able to search offline in Ovi maps + use free Navigation is absolutely vital and amazing. As long as GPS/A-GPS reception is good, though. Fingers crossed.

6) Web - judging by the speed of the browser in the N86, we can only assume that the browser on the N8 (with an extra 50% mhz and 100% RAM) will be comparible in speed to that of the iPhone and Android. And they all use Webkit anyway, so it'll be down to UI differences. Given the availability of other browsers, I don't think this area will be that big of a concern.

7) Email - I'm not sure about others, but I do minimal email answering on my phone. They're usually short replies. For longer replies, I either pull out my Bluetooth keyboard or go to a PC. As long as I get something that keeps me up to date a few times a day, syncs well with the server (both ways), I don't care much about the animations and transitions.

And as a bonus to all the stuff that's built in, there's:

7) Great software and past+future compatibility- Coreplayer, Gravity, Facebook, Gameloft games, EA games, Guitar tuners, Java stuff, Youtube, Gmail, Google stuff, Joikuspot, Nimbuzz, Opera browsers, Skyfire, 3rd party file browsers, remote lockers, password managers, task managers, etc. There is so much great software for Symbian. I haven't even used the device yet, so some of the social networking stuff could even be integrated. And, keep in mind that Symbian^3 on the N8 will be compatible with all current S60 5th software + all future things with Qt 4.6, which will be the same programming architecture/UI as future MeeGo devices, that just adds so much more longevity and value to the device.

8) FM Transmitter - I can get the navigation voice on my car's speakers, all my music, podcasts, etc. I NEED this.

9) Works with GSM quadband and WCDMA 850,900,1700,1900,2100 bands.

Everyone seems to be obsessed with fancy animations and transitions these days. What I found disappointing with the S60 5th devices was 1) the confusing single-tap/double-tap inconsistency and 2) the limited C: drive and RAM. These issues have now been addressed - we've seen what Symbian can do with 256MB RAM, thx to the i8910HD videos, and S^3 now has one-tap UI with direct manipulation along with 3x the fps for UI transitions and kinetic scrolling. In terms of home screens, within 3 swipes and 1 click you can access info from any of 15+ widgets. OK,...so it doesn't have 7 home screens, but does anyone really need 30+ widgets running at any one time?

I honestly don't think Nokia is going down anytime soon. And with the initial price point of the N8, it's only reasonable to expect a top spec MeeGo device around Q3 to Q4 that will cover the 500 pounds mark. I think Nokia, if they reach the mainstream with the right message and through right channels (billboards, shiny ads) and supplement that with a more niche message to the geeks through the right channels (blogs), the N8 will sell in the truckloads during the transition to S^4.

Let me just start by saying I'm not a Nokia employee, nor am I being paid in any way by Nokia.

I don't understand what some people are complaining about. The death and doom of Nokia because the N8 does not impress...

First off, I like to carry one device in my pocket. Which means it has to

1) Be a great phone. What's the point of having a great slab build quality of signal strength is compromised? One offender that comes to mind is the HTC Legend, I think. Although we don't know much about the signal quality on this device yet, Nokia has traditionally been very good with reception and voice quality.

2) Have a great camera. I absolutely NEED to have something that replace a digital point-and-shoot. Oh, and also great video recording for those spontaneous moments in life. If you've seen some of the N8 preview photo quality shots, you'll know this camera package not just about megapixels; the sensor and encoding algorithms are really top notch. It handles sunlight beautifully, unlike some HTC/Android offerings, which tend to over-expose or have random red/purple tinges. We'll see about low-light, non-xenon shots in the future, as I haven't seen any samples yet. But keep in mind Nokia still has months to tweak low-light algorithms and, if all else fails, it has xenon. In terms of video, if the N86 is anything to go by, one can only imagine that the N8 with stereo digital microphones and one of the largest sensors (and I'm not talking just about mega-pixels, but sensor size) ever fitted to a phone will be nothing but amazing at 720p/30fps. It's very safe to say that, if Nokia gets all the algorithms right (and judging from preview samples and past history, I have no doubt they will), as a photo and video camera package, the N8 will beat all current Android offerings.

3) Great Media Player - So this has got a revamped music player with browsing made easier and more beautiful. GREAT! And music playback time is something like 36+ hours? So, with all the built-in codecs, and Coreplayer in the future, you can play pretty much any video. And this plugs into your TV with HDMI out with Dolby 5.1. You can see the decision with the stereo digital microphones and Dolby 5.1 is a very well thought out decision. What's the point of HDMI and 5.1 if the videos you recorded have crap sound quality? Or only 720p/24fps like other devices? If the video isn't butter smooth and sound quality is crap, people will be disappointed the moment they use the HDMI-out. Ummm...how many other phones on the market have this hardware? The Evo 4G? And that costs how much? And this can still do traditional VGA-out via the 3.5mm jack.

4) A great file system. I have a very organized file structure on my MicroSD card. I have loads of school documents, PDFs, Word files, Powerpoints, videos, music, podcasts, photos that are all well sorted. Symbian has traditionally had the best file system/browser. And now, the N8 has USB On-the-Go!!! Imagine just plugging in a thumb drive!! I don't think I can ever live with Apple's non-existent file system.

5) Navigation - I'm actually in a foreign country as I write, so being able to sideload map data of any country and be able to search offline in Ovi maps + use free Navigation is absolutely vital and amazing. As long as GPS/A-GPS reception is good, though. Fingers crossed.

6) Web - judging by the speed of the browser in the N86, we can only assume that the browser on the N8 (with an extra 50% mhz and 100% RAM) will be comparible in speed to that of the iPhone and Android. And they all use Webkit anyway, so it'll be down to UI differences. Given the availability of other browsers, I don't think this area will be that big of a concern.

7) Email - I'm not sure about others, but I do minimal email answering on my phone. They're usually short replies. For longer replies, I either pull out my Bluetooth keyboard or go to a PC. As long as I get something that keeps me up to date a few times a day, syncs well with the server (both ways), I don't care much about the animations and transitions.

And as a bonus to all the stuff that's built in, there's:

7) Great software and past+future compatibility- Coreplayer, Gravity, Facebook, Gameloft games, EA games, Guitar tuners, Java stuff, Youtube, Gmail, Google stuff, Joikuspot, Nimbuzz, Opera browsers, Skyfire, 3rd party file browsers, remote lockers, password managers, task managers, etc. There is so much great software for Symbian. I haven't even used the device yet, so some of the social networking stuff could even be integrated. And, keep in mind that Symbian^3 on the N8 will be compatible with all current S60 5th software + all future things with Qt 4.6, which will be the same programming architecture/UI as future MeeGo devices, that just adds so much more longevity and value to the device.

8) FM Transmitter - I can get the navigation voice on my car's speakers, all my music, podcasts, etc. I NEED this.

9) Works with GSM quadband and WCDMA 850,900,1700,1900,2100 bands.

Everyone seems to be obsessed with fancy animations and transitions these days. What I found disappointing with the S60 5th devices was 1) the confusing single-tap/double-tap inconsistency and 2) the limited C: drive and RAM. These issues have now been addressed - we've seen what Symbian can do with 256MB RAM, thx to the i8910HD videos, and S^3 now has one-tap UI with direct manipulation along with 3x the fps for UI transitions and kinetic scrolling. In terms of home screens, within 3 swipes and 1 click you can access info from any of 15+ widgets. OK,...so it doesn't have 7 home screens, but does anyone really need 30+ widgets running at any one time?

I honestly don't think Nokia is going down anytime soon. And with the initial price point of the N8, it's only reasonable to expect a top spec MeeGo device around Q3 to Q4 that will cover the 500 pounds mark. I think Nokia, if they reach the mainstream with the right message and through right channels (billboards, shiny ads) and supplement that with a more niche message to the geeks through the right channels (blogs), the N8 will sell in the truckloads during the transition to S^4.

-Bosco

Dynite wrote:

USB On-The-Go, often abbreviated USB OTG, is part of a supplement[1] to the USB 2.0 specification originally agreed upon in late 2001 and later revised.[2] The specification allows for devices that generally fulfill the role of being slave USB device (which might be, e. g. digital audio player or mobile phone) to a USB host (usually a desktop or notebook computer)

To Summarize,
USB OTG = acting like a USB stick.
USB (H)MS = acting like a PC, can accept USB OTG devices.

Symbian ^3 supports both.

You might want to read the last sentence of that Wikipedia quote in its entirety rather than cutting it off in the middle. It seems to actually contradict what you're saying:

Wikipedia wrote:
The specification allows for devices that generally fulfill the role of being slave USB device (which might be, e. g. digital audio player or mobile phone) to a USB host (usually a desktop or notebook computer) to become the host themselves when paired with another USB device.

As a Nokia owner in the U.S., here's a bit of advice to help sell this device, and even refurbish its brand, Stateside: even if you don't partner with one of the carriers, at least get your device out there, in people's hands.

One solution may be to buy your way into a prominent dispay/floor space spot at Best Buy, the largest electronics retailing chain in North America. There's at least one Best Buy in most largish towns in the U.S., and a handful in each city.

While customers can check out the latest laptops, Xbox games, DVDs and the new 3D HDTVs, they can wander over and handle 'the new whiz bang Nokia that shoots HD video'.

Nokia also owns the Nokia Theater here, a venue for hip rock and hip hop acts. Leverage that; have a booth or a trailer before a few concerts to let people have some hands on time with the phone.

Hold a video competition around the U.S., like a scavenger hunt, put the phones in people's hands and have them post videos on YouTube from the road.

Marketing, marketing, marketing.

Just an additional thought: Nokia should work to get Kinoma Play from S60v3 to Symbian 3.

Kinoma contains many content specific applications, apps that are U.S.-centric. Further, if Nokia bundles the Kinoma application, with a free license, into NAM N8's, that's another selling point.

It would make up for a lack of US content apps in the Ovi Store.

Quote from Rafe: [Removable battery - will let you know when I hear more. Suspect it will be a case of a service centre swap out. Guessing you can do this yourself too (as with dismantling current devices to change / clean screen / keyboard - not for the faint of heart. Bear in mind that power management is improved in S^3 and some of the design choices scream energy based to me.]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think battery is removable. The official N8 page on Nokia Europe website quotes battery as separate with N8 handset.
Have a look at content below from Nokia:

Standard Sales Package

* Nokia N8 mobile computer
* Nokia Battery BL-4D
* Nokia Connectivity Cable CA-179
* Nokia Stereo Headset WH-701
* Nokia Compact Travel Charger AC-15
* Nokia Adapter Cable for HDMI CA-156
* Nokia Adapter Cable for USB OTG CA-157
* Nokia Stylus SU-36 (selected markets only)
* Quick start guide

stuclark wrote:So we're getting a non-removable battery and potentially a *slow* processor with *only* 256 MB RAM.

...sounds to me like we could be hearing a lot of iPhone style arguments going on in the near future.

The other problem Nokia are going to have is that the interface on Symbian^3 looks almost identical to that on Symbian^1, and that unfortunately now has a very bad reputation in the market place. When pitced to a normob against Android or iPhone (or Bada) Symbian^3 still looks clunky 😞

-- You forget that the CPU in the N8 is not a vanilla ARM 11, but a _Tegra_ ARM 11(!)
Trust me, a Tegra ARM 11 can easily match a Snapdragon, in fact in some areas it is indeed faster (more instructions per clockcycle). The SnapDragon has a long instruction and data pipeline, making branch predictions costly, and hence slow down the processor, that is also why a SnapDragon needs to run at high clock speeds.

-- The N8 has 256 MB RAM (twice the amount of the 5800 and N97), yes. But since Symbian^3 has full demand paging (Symbian^1 only had it partially), it will truck on for quite a long stretch before running out of RAM, and the "closing apps on the background" problem that the 5800 and N97 have, will be history on the N8.

-- Android is quite significantly heavier that Symbian^3. The entire application layer in Andriod is running on the Dalvik virtual machine(!), and the UI and application layer services takes almost twice the amount of RAM, than Symbian will ever do.

This device will be a hit, there is no arguing around it. It has the perfect power vs. price ratio of any smartphone, hands down.