In defense of the journalistic technique!

fair enough but that samsung HD v SE x10 was a shocker, please compare like for like and we'll all be happy.

Well said Mr Litchfield, I've followed you for a while, both here and on the phones show , and really don't see any need for you to defend or explain yourself ! People who follow you on a regular basis know that you often do top 5/10 lists and the iPhone and HTC often appear or in fact come in at No 1. I just wonder what sort of critisism someone who decried Apple or Android on there 'fan' sites would get ? Keep up the good work and spreading your knowledge, I often point people to The Phones Show when they ask for advice about a new handset as I see it as impartial and people are more likely to watch a video rather than read an article as they are generally 'lazy' LOL
Cheers

Hi Steve,

I know I might be implicated in this article, so I'd like to put my point of view forward as well, around the Satio.

I don't think you are biased, but I *am* absolutely certain that there is something seriously wrong, probably hardware-wise with the review unit you were given by SEMC. This is entirely their own fault, I don't understand why they wouldn't check to see that the handset is not defective before offering it to you.

I'll admit that when I bought it in December there were still issues with the firmware. These were mostly random though and occured about twice a week on average. I've had worse with several Nokia's (N82, 5800)

Once the February release was made, the Satio became *the* most rock solid device I have *ever* used. It has properly crashed just ONCE in the last 3 months!!! As I did mention to you at the time, there is the occasional time when it needs to be cycled in order to get the camera working again, but that's it.

I obviously have a vested interest in the Satio - I don't want to feel that I've wasted what will come to �600 on a dud. If I had the same experience as you I think I'd feel that way, but as it stands I don't. Anyway, it will be sold to part fund an N8 - but that's purely due to the talents of the N8 rather than any misgiving with the Satio. I look forward to having a device which combines the wonderful media capabilities of the Satio with the (actually quite good) services of Nokia (because frankly Sony Ericsson aren't even trying)

PLEASE can we fact facts here folks.

Accusations of bias against someone (i.e. the AAS journalists) telling you truths you don't want to hear, are the easiest mud to sling, and make the accuser feel a bit better.

Steve YOU may not have made an investment or emotional connection with the handsets you review, but my goodness the people slinging the mud certainly have.

Folks, sometimes (or most of the time) there's a truth in AAS articles that those who've jumped ship to iPhone or Android (or RIM, or WinPho, or something else) are unwilling to face up to: Nokia phones REALLY are the best overall for the vast majority of users, Symbian REALLY is the best mobile OS, Ovi Store REALLY is getting very attractive to users and developers, Ovi Maps Nav REALLY does make Google Maps Nav look not very good, the N8 and Symbian^3 REALLY does threaten iPhone and Android quite severely, S60 5th Edition REALLY isn't as bad as a few disgruntled N97 users and the iPhone/Android fanclub say it is (it's grown market share whilst iPhone stayed flat for example) - it's actually a very good touch OS for most people in fact even though the UI is not quite on par with iPhone or Android.

You may scoff in disbelief at these truths if you've made a financial and emotional investment in a rival mobile platform and feel you're backed up by some of the US tech blogs (which are simply astoundingly ignorant - unbelievably so in fact - about mobile on a global level, and about Nokia and Symbian specifically, and feel threatened by it). But the above points are still truths.

AAS, you're not biased, you seem very fair and balanced on the whole actually. I'd ignore the critics like water off a duck's back. They're talking rubbish, and deep down they know it.

was there anr review on vivaz mr. s?

Oh God, here we go. Of course a site about Symbian will be pro Symbian. Why would anyone expect anything different? It always amazes me that there are so many non-Symbian users who have got nothing better to do than come on here moaning about it. Get a life boys!

I am in support of Steve's approach to web journalism and actually I am following his reviews from the Phones Show +- 50. In my view Steve is a champion of common sense in this market governed to high extend by fashion, not usability (*).

My only critical remark concerns endorsement or criticism of minor players in the smart phone market, like Mugen Power Batteries or Krusell. Mugen was endorsed some 20-30 shows ago and in my view they do not deserve it. The batteries are as reliable as the cheapest ebay clones and one can test it efficiently with Nokia Energy Profiles. Unfortunately, I had an opportunity to do much more testing then I would really like. By the way, Mugen claims, that "Nokia Energy Profiler is not the correct tool to measure capacity of our batteries" 😊

Krusell, on the other hand, as Steve pointed in the case of n95 and e90 had some bad designs, but they have tendency to improve, for example they completely redesigned n95 case and now it is actually usable. Also, these products are available across Europe just in regular shops and for this reason alone they deserve some attention in my view. Also, Krussell takes his lifetime warranty seriously, actually I replaced a broken e90 case at no cost.

I am giving these two examples not to endorse of criticize, but just to make a point, that as Steve spent hundreds of hours with the flagship phones like e90, n97 or n95, certainly a casing or a battery from a manufacturer X will get only a fraction of love and attention given to the "real things", that is to the phones. This in my view leads to some mistakes, unfounded claims and as a result to a weak journalism, however admittedly relatively rear.

(*) in general I am not against spending money on fashion, but not in the context of phones 😊

Good points, raleigh. Though the fact that I do actually like Krusell cases generally can be seen in the way I keep asking for samples from them in every case roundup despite the past disappointments. Their build quality and customer service is great - it's just the designs that let the side down sometimes.

Re: Mugen. I've only done a couple of Mugen reviews and both batteries worked *perfectly* for me (on E75 and N97). Not a huge statistical point though, I grant you. I bow to your more extensive testing!

Few weeks ago there was really a terrible article on this website about Q1 Nokia results. Reading the article one may even have an impression that Nokia is doing well financially, but after this "good" results the market devaluated the stock by 20% and this happened before the "Greek tragedy". Admittedly, the article was written not by Steve and actually I am not sure what are his views on the topic.

Nevertheless, I am begging you, gentlemen, please stick to the phones! If finance is your not main agenda, please stay away from this slippery topic and focus on the things you love 😊

Steve, get another Satio handset. Then test it fairly to see what a working one is like. Sure, it'll have a newer firmware than the one you tested, but your problems weren't firmware related - mine is also completely SIM free and unbranded. Brendan isn't the only person to say yours was clearly gubbed.

Hell, if Sony won't send you one, I'd send you mine.

*Looks lovingly at N82*

ok, ok, I give in, I'll request another Satio from Sony Ericsson PR and see how I get on.

8-)

steve: "it would have served nobody if I'd jumped down hard on either device on day one and proclaimed that each flagship was a complete and utter crock"

No, it would have been an enormous public service to tens of thousands of ordinary people who were buying an N97 at the time.

We know phones will be improved with future firmware update.s The question we look to experts for is: Is this ready for prime time?

Even if you said, "NO, WAIT!", it would have been better than nothing. The silence was very disappointing.

We did say 'No, wait' in all our comments and tweets and podcasts. And many other people did the same. It was only the people who bought the N97 in the first few weeks before any of us had really sampled the first production firmware who got stung. And early adopters know full well the risks.

Not that this excuses Nokia. But I stand by my writings at the time.

-raleigh- wrote:Few weeks ago there was really a terrible article on this website about Q1 Nokia results. Reading the article one may even have an impression that Nokia is doing well financially, but after this "good" results the market devaluated the stock by 20% and this happened before the "Greek tragedy". Admittedly, the article was written not by Steve and actually I am not sure what are his views on the topic.

Nevertheless, I am begging you, gentlemen, please stick to the phones! If finance is your not main agenda, please stay away from this slippery topic and focus on the things you love 😊

I'll provide a quick answer here since I'm the one who puts together the commentary on the results. Here's the Q1 you mention.

The main reason for reporting these is to look at the results in a general manner, not from a purely financial perspective. Our readers tend to be most interested in hearing about shipment numbers / service usage numbers etc etc.

Clearing the profit etc numbers are of interest too, so this gets included. But as you'll note the bulk of the article is devoted to talking about strategy.

But there's a reason this paragraph sits at the top of the article:

"Nokia's results are below market expectations; analysts were expecting a larger increase in profits and a more optimistic outlook. Nokia has projected lower than forecasted devices and service margins in the year ahead (and its forecasts for Q2 were cautious in general). These factors are the primary contributors to a falling share price this morning."

And that's to note the market response. AAS is not intended to be a site doing full financial analysis. I suggest you read the news story more carefully in future and set you expectation in the context of the site.

Incidentally my opinion is that the stock market tends to focus on the short term. This means that Nokia's longer term strategy and longer term market position is underestimated (though you can argue that the market has built in an expectation of under performance on execution). Nokia's current share price (and recent movement) reflect short terms concerns, some of which are not entirely rational. That said, as noted above, I am not a stock market expert.

Unregistered wrote:PLEASE can we fact facts here folks.

Accusations of bias against someone (i.e. the AAS journalists) telling you truths you don't want to hear, are the easiest mud to sling, and make the accuser feel a bit better.

Steve YOU may not have made an investment or emotional connection with the handsets you review, but my goodness the people slinging the mud certainly have.

Folks, sometimes (or most of the time) there's a truth in AAS articles that those who've jumped ship to iPhone or Android (or RIM, or WinPho, or something else) are unwilling to face up to: Nokia phones REALLY are the best overall for the vast majority of users, Symbian REALLY is the best mobile OS, Ovi Store REALLY is getting very attractive to users and developers, Ovi Maps Nav REALLY does make Google Maps Nav look not very good, the N8 and Symbian^3 REALLY does threaten iPhone and Android quite severely, S60 5th Edition REALLY isn't as bad as a few disgruntled N97 users and the iPhone/Android fanclub say it is (it's grown market share whilst iPhone stayed flat for example) - it's actually a very good touch OS for most people in fact even though the UI is not quite on par with iPhone or Android.

You may scoff in disbelief at these truths if you've made a financial and emotional investment in a rival mobile platform and feel you're backed up by some of the US tech blogs (which are simply astoundingly ignorant - unbelievably so in fact - about mobile on a global level, and about Nokia and Symbian specifically, and feel threatened by it). But the above points are still truths.

AAS, you're not biased, you seem very fair and balanced on the whole actually. I'd ignore the critics like water off a duck's back. They're talking rubbish, and deep down they know it.

You mean face the facts but I guess your insatiable desire to climb in bed with Steve overwhelmed you sentence formulating abilities. Anyway I digress. I will address your overtly cheerleading statements one at a time.

Slinging mud? How about pointing out that AAS's credibility rests on the unbiased and fact based journalism that Steve and Co are supposed to exhibit. By purposely not bringing to light blatant faults in such disasters as the N97 simply erode an already fragile credibility base. People are just pointing out that Steve is not as unbiased as he would like everyone to believe.

Symbian is best simply because it was there first. Overall it is an OS better suited to those technologically inclined. Android OS and iPhone OS blow Symbian out the of the water based on ease of use, and intuitiveness. Your blinding bias is almost as bad as Steve's and he is supposed to know better.

Ovi Store had a two year head start on everyone else and they Ovi is still playing catch up. If Nokia had to compete with only one phone as does Apple, or a few models as does Android, Nokia would be a very distant third and the Ovi store would be an even larger disaster than it already is. Yes it is getting better but hey, a two year head start and still playing catch up. You do the math.

Google vs. Ovi Maps = Nokia was desperate and free maps is supposed to quell the masses. As they say, you can fool some of the people some of the time, and it seems that you can be fooled all of the time. We will see how things pan out when Google releases turn by turn (free) globally.

N8 and Symbian�3. More promises. I have seen an analogy comparing being a customer of Nokia as being in an abusive relationship where the abusing partner promises to stop abusing until the next time. Nokia has become a company of release and fix. Many to most of their "flagship" phones have been hardware plagued and ALL have been software handicapped. This from a supposed leader. 5th Edition was great for those who lowered the bar to where they were perfectly happy with a thrown together touch UI on an OS platform not designed for it and for those (you must be one of them) with low expectations. For those that required more, 5th edition was pure crap.

The iPhone market share stayed flat why? How about there is a new iPhone to be launched in less than 2 months. Only someone that just had to have a iPhone 3GS would make a purchase this late in the game. Study economics because this was so easy to predict.

I can agree that some US tech blogs can go overboard but they are no worse than the European blogs that live in Bitch and Moan Complain Land. They are no better. I take them all with a grain of salt. Neither Apple nor Android are threatened by Nokia nor vice versa. Nokia will continue to bottom feed because this is where their phones are at. Android and Apple are capturing the premium handset market because this their sweet-spot. There is a market for everyone.

Sorry Steve, your come to Jesus moment simply does not cut it, but this is how I see it. You did have a great article regarding the MegaPixel Myth.

Unregistered wrote: Anyway I digress. I will address your overtly cheerleading statements one at a time.

Ovi Store had a two year head start on everyone else and they Ovi is still playing catch up. If Nokia had to compete with only one phone as does Apple, or a few models as does Android, Nokia would be a very distant third and the Ovi store would be an even larger disaster than it already is. Yes it is getting better but hey, a two year head start and still playing catch up. You do the math.

I would point out that Ovi Store is less than a year old (May 26th-ish 2009 was launch day). So it would probably be a bit difficult for it to have a "two year year head start" on Apple's App Store and the Android given they were both launched before the Ovi Store.

I could make similar points about each of your points, but I guess it's a matter of interpretation. You don't agree and you are entitled to your opinion.

Steve,
Just keep up the good work! No need to defend yourself!!

Rafe wrote:I would point out that Ovi Store is less than a year old (May 26th-ish 2009 was launch day). So it would probably be a bit difficult for it to have a "two year year head start" on Apple's App Store and the Android given they were both launched before the Ovi Store.

I could make similar points about each of your points, but I guess it's a matter of interpretation. You don't agree and you are entitled to your opinion.

Maybe he meant the fact that the Appstore was out in 2008? So maybe what they were trying to say was that the Ovi Store has had 2 years now to look and copy from the competition (or shock horror, innovate?!) yet it's still far behind ?

I also agree with the minority here : Steve, grow up you're a bloody journalist for Christs sake, not everyone is going to like you/agree with you. Take it on the chin and carry on, don't write a blummin explanation article :-/

@Rafe

I read it again and still claim that it is misleading. Please do not take it personally, it is just a remark concerning this specific article.

In contrast to what you said in two places in the article, the results were really bad, not "encouraging", and what is even more depressive from investor point of view, the outlook is somewhat gloom.

In my opinion the issue may be addressed the next time by comparing opinions provided by the CEO with opinions by some outsiders. For example, there are people around who believe that Kallasvuo is just a bad CEO and things will go in a wrong direction regardless of all r&d effort and even if you disagree with this view, why not quote the critics? Below is a an article, which summarizes some arguments against current Nokia management in view of Q1 results.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=amhdpsuGPUwU

Can't see the need to defend yourself or the site Steve but I will point out one thing I do not agree with and that is your choice to delay some handset reviews until firmware bugs are sorted out. That's a mighty fine luxury you may have but us folk with our new upgrade every 2 years or so don't have that choice. It's pick your phone and deal with it's crap.

The manufactures see fit to sell these phones to the paying public with production firmware and I think they should be reviewed as such by the press (ie you).

To be honest Steve, the fact that you don't pay for review units makes your reviews very suspect. After all, if you trash a few units from the same manufacturer, they may cut you off, which would put you at a tremendous disadvantage in terms of staying current.

Steve: "We did say 'No, wait' in all our comments and tweets and podcasts"

But not on the site.

The biggest story of the summer in the Symbian world was the N97 car crash - All About Symbian was silent, you sat on your hands.

You put not upsetting Nokia above the interests of the readers.

Krusell cases look ugly and they are badly fitted.

Noreve cases are super indeed.

>>To be honest Steve, the fact that you don't pay for review units makes your reviews very suspect. After all, if you trash a few units from the same manufacturer, they may cut you off, which would put you at a tremendous disadvantage in terms of staying current.

You've utterly missed the point of my piece. And you also don't understand how PR works. The PR firms keep sending out handsets *whatever* you've said in the past.

>>The biggest story of the summer in the Symbian world was the N97 car crash - All About Symbian was silent, you sat on your hands.

We did all sort of commentaries, in text and audio on this site, and would always point out, where needed, that the software was immature and that better things were coming. Was this not accurate?

slitchfield wrote:>>To be honest Steve, the fact that you don't pay for review units makes your reviews very suspect. After all, if you trash a few units from the same manufacturer, they may cut you off, which would put you at a tremendous disadvantage in terms of staying current.

You've utterly missed the point of my piece. And you also don't understand how PR works. The PR firms keep sending out handsets *whatever* you've said in the past.

How many times did you slag off Samsung because their PR company hadn't given you "you're" FREE i8910?

How many times have SonyEricsson had the same treatment?

The main bias criticism against you is that you're a Nokia fanboi and so Samsung, SonyEricsson et al don't get the same level of friendly reviews. Unfortunately, even with your recent articles about the i8910, this is still proving to be the case. For example, you mark down handsets like the Satio and i8910 for not being able to run Ovi Maps... well hello.... Ovi Maps has been intended, by Nokia themselves, to be a Nokia ONLY application - of COURSE the other handsets can't run it (without hacking). Like DUH!

... it's quite simple, and is seen in ALL forms of journalism - if you continually slag off someone's products, they will simply refuse to give / lend you any more. Even Jeremy Clarkson has fallen foul of this, and I think he's got slightly more clout than you.

Unregistered wrote:Actually Steve, you've entirely missed the point here. The fact that X PR company gives you handsets "all the time" and Y PR company doesn't, in itself clouds your views and your reviews.

How many times did you slag off Samsung because their PR company hadn't given you "you're" FREE i8910?

How many times have SonyEricsson had the same treatment?

The main bias criticism against you is that you're a Nokia fanboi and so Samsung, SonyEricsson et al don't get the same level of friendly reviews. Unfortunately, even with your recent articles about the i8910, this is still proving to be the case. For example, you mark down handsets like the Satio and i8910 for not being able to run Ovi Maps... well hello.... Ovi Maps has been intended, by Nokia themselves, to be a Nokia ONLY application - of COURSE the other handsets can't run it (without hacking). Like DUH!

... it's quite simple, and is seen in ALL forms of journalism - if you continually slag off someone's products, they will simply refuse to give / lend you any more. Even Jeremy Clarkson has fallen foul of this, and I think he's got slightly more clout than you.

Oh, for God's sake, just how many phones do you expect any phone website to buy; I imagine that most don't buy any, as they're mostly supplied by PR companies.

Non-Nokia phones don't get criticised for not having Ovi Maps, but they do inevitably suffer when such extras are taken into account.

Steve, in his AAS guise as well as in his Phones Show one, gives a pretty balanced picture. If you looked at Apple-biassed websites, you would be hard pushed to find anyone who thought not having copy&paste or multi-tasking was a problem, until Apple announced that they would support these features, at which point Apple were more-or-less credited for having invented them. However, no-one seems to complain about this kind of bias.

My main problem is the sheer number of posters, registered and (mostly) unregistered, who simply come here to bitch and moan, or, in the worst case, simply to crow about how good their OS of choice is and how crap Symbian/Nokia is.

i love the work that the team does, and i also expect you to favour symbian devices because symbian forms your frame of reference. you use symbian devices the most, and nokia devices the most so it only makes sense that you will favour them if all things are equal as you are more used to using the os and devices.

i see more bias towards nokia s60 when steve does his phonesshow. a couple of recent examples come to mind. in the last episode there is a video of the geeks meeting and the clip starts off with a shot of the e71. later in the video tim starts to talk about how poor the hero reception is because of the aluminum body and how the antenna is placed at the bottom of the phone. i am not disputing the fact that the hero has lower than average rf (i dont know as i have never used one) but what makes me laugh is that the e71 suffers from the exact same issue due to the antenna placement and metal body. steve also talks about how he doesnt like the fact that the antenna is at the bottom of the hero when he reviewed it a few episodes back, metioning something about not being comfortable with his hand covering all the radios and antenna locations. what he fails to do is say the same thing not only about the e71, but he raves about the n8 in the aas podcast which has the same design as the hero. this talking out of both sides of his mouth implies to me that he is not being 100% impartial. now i do not think that he is getting paid to do this, but i think he is clearly a fan of symbian and it creeps into the reviews, which again is fine with me. i am an adult and can make my own conclusions and decisions based on all the info given.

all in all i am a big fan and i visit the site daily and listen to the podcasts and phonesshow when they are updated. a little bit of favoritism doesnt ruin the effort and time the aas team puts into their work for me

Unregistered wrote:Steve: "We did say 'No, wait' in all our comments and tweets and podcasts"

But not on the site.

The biggest story of the summer in the Symbian world was the N97 car crash - All About Symbian was silent, you sat on your hands.

You put not upsetting Nokia above the interests of the readers.

That's not the way I remember it. All N97 shortcomings have been reported on AAS. However, AAS don't let the shorcomings overshadow any positives. There are some very negative people who don't want to hear it though, and will only see things their way.

This is a good example of the "radiators and drains" idea (google it). The drains are those people who try and accuse AAS of bias etc because they disagree.

Well I couldn't resist from not replying on this article. Some of the old forum members of All About Symbian might remember me as I was a big follower some years ago (in the 7650 era). Although from time to time I was not a regular visitor here cause of my own really busy life there was always a tendency of returning just to see whats new.

The last couple of years I started testing a lot of devices not just symbian as I had plenty of friends that asked my help for varius things on their phones (from hacking/jailbraking to just firmware updates of their devices or some tips on finding applications for their needs). So every time I was watching Steve's show or reading an article of his about a handset I have already tested or the opposite when I was getting one that I have already read a review here I was getting familiar with it and other than a few minor things I may had a different opinion his view on the specific handset was totally correct. Im not just a reader of AAS but AAS's articles are by far more fair than many many other American sites (e.g. I still can't believe some sites were praising Apple for not adding Multitasking on iPhone and they were doing a long detailed view of Multitasking on Windows Mobile and Symbian picking the few bads to trash them - I won't speak about iPad reviews).

I must also admit that I followed the advices of AAS about n97 (my 4th symbian device after Nokia 7650, Siemens SX1 and Nokia N72) and when I bought it (a week before ver. 21 realesed) although I was terrified from what I have read on other sites in the end it was just what Steve said a few days ago. A device that may not be the best in any field but can do everything. (in fact the only reason I regret buying n97 was N900 😛 ).

But I know some people wont see that. People who only want to see one aspect of how things are, won't see the reviews as being fair.

PS: I still agree with what some others said, you should re-test satio, it seems pretty solid on the latest firmware and Samsung Omnia HD i8910 is a bit underrated by you for what it really is especially with a CFW but again if we take in mind mods custom firmwares etc, an jailbroken iPhone rocks too! It's a hard choice when doing a review!!!