Unregistered wrote:Good point right up until the point you missed the bottom basement phones. Take out the developing world phones and leave only the smartphones and Nokia is serious trouble. Hell, the fact that you sell crap as well as smart phone crap still means that you sell crap regardless. Nokia would not be able to compete against Android, Apple, RIM or HTC if Nokia had to rely on phones like the N97.
Sorry, that's totally inaccurate. It is generally accepted that Nokia's smartphone sales figures are greater than the sales of the next 3 highest combined. Hardly indicative of a company in serious trouble, even though I agree that the N97 generally was rubbish...
buster wrote:Sorry, that's totally inaccurate. It is generally accepted that Nokia's smartphone sales figures are greater than the sales of the next 3 highest combined. Hardly indicative of a company in serious trouble, even though I agree that the N97 generally was rubbish...
Not sure about this. Are you considering S40 smartphone territory or only S60 and above? You will get different numbers for sure depending on your metrics. I think without the S40 phones Nokia's S60 phones would suffer greatly against the other guys.
Unregistered wrote:Right. Then this is pretty much what the new iPhone OS will do. Correct? So in terms of multi-tasking there is no discernible difference other than Apple decided to implement it when they felt the time was right rather than rushing a half-baked idea out the door. Either way, multi-tasking will be taken off the list for some of the Symbian zealots to knock Apple for.
Symbian is a fully multi-tasking OS and all programs are able to use that capability to the full extent.
iOS 4 is also a fully multi-tasking OS, but all third party apps are limited by the published API's so they cannot use the full power of that multi-tasking OS.
Background server programs in particular cannot be written for iOS by third parties, alls apps must have some kind of UI. Also, the kinds of background processing is limited to a couple of well/defined cases.
For most apps, games, this is not really a problem, though. There�s a huge gap between technical ability and economic sense, and Apple is trying to make economic sense, nor technical ability, their priority.
I really don't get this whole criticism towards Apple's multitasking approach.
From my experience with N97 mini I'd say that s60v5 multitasking is a feature that should be used sparingly and with great care. And even then you should keep your fingers crossed because the os/apps enter risky, highly unstable state. I'd rather have multitasking that is limited in some way and lets apps tap into selected processes and use CPU, memory and battery power in smart way than be told I can launch any app I want and experience freezes or crashes. I think credit is due to Apple for trying to give users multitasking that isn't a burden that a device and user's patience can't carry. On my N97 mini multitasking is something I try to avoid. Running Nimbuzz, listening to music via bt and reading Facebook posts is something that forces me to "unfreeze" the phone by taking the battery out too often. And sometimes it's enough to launch the browser to kill the phone...So I'd love to see future symbian versions to have multitasking reworked to make this feature a pleasure to use and actually boost productivity.
Unregistered wrote:Good point right up until the point you missed the bottom basement phones. Take out the developing world phones and leave only the smartphones and Nokia is serious trouble. Hell, the fact that you sell crap as well as smart phone crap still means that you sell crap regardless. Nokia would not be able to compete against Android, Apple, RIM or HTC if Nokia had to rely on phones like the N97.
1. They are not crap. They are full featured smartphones. They have WiFi, GPS, maps, 3.5G, web browsing, email etc and allow you to code your own software and run, and buy that software from a number of sources without constraint on what you do.
2. Why would you remove some markets and phones from the total just so the figures suit you argument better? Maybe we should remove all the phones that are locked into the vendors infrastructure and don't allow you to use them as you want when you have paid for them?
manual_ wrote:I really don't get this whole criticism towards Apple's multitasking approach.
From my experience with N97 mini I'd say that s60v5 multitasking is a feature that should be used sparingly and with great care. And even then you should keep your fingers crossed because the os/apps enter risky, highly unstable state. I'd rather have multitasking that is limited in some way and lets apps tap into selected processes and use CPU, memory and battery power in smart way than be told I can launch any app I want and experience freezes or crashes. .
I think it is natural for people to not like being controlled. Basically the average human is capable of managing their own multi-tasking environment and doesn't need their intelligence insulting by nanny apple. The jailbreakers have proved that the Apple excuses for doing things their way are crap and the whole thing is set up to get the most cash out of sucker consumers. OK if you are Apple and their shareholders, but not for me. I refuse to play.
svdwal wrote:
iOS 4 is also a fully multi-tasking OS, but all third party apps are limited by the published API's so they cannot use the full power of that multi-tasking OS..
iPhone OS has always been a fully multi-tasking OS, not just 4. Jailbroken phones can do all the multi-tasking stuff.
Unregistered wrote:Not sure about this. Are you considering S40 smartphone territory or only S60 and above? You will get different numbers for sure depending on your metrics. I think without the S40 phones Nokia's S60 phones would suffer greatly against the other guys.
Nope. These are Symbian figures. S40 is not Symbian.
Unregistered wrote:Maybe your phone is defective. That's a thought. If you are having so much trouble and still have the iPhone then you have no one to blame but yourself. Get rid of it and get a life after iPhone.
Well that would be three consecutive iPhones with the same defect then....
And you can't blame me if I am locked into using the shitePhone because I need one particular app not available elsewhere.
I've got the browser, I've got the app, all wonderful apps but useless when I can't connect 😞
At least Nokia get these fundamentally important things like battery life and reception right.
Unregistered wrote:
2. Why would you remove some markets and phones from the total just so the figures suit you argument better? Maybe we should remove all the phones that are locked into the vendors infrastructure and don't allow you to use them as you want when you have paid for them?
That's like comparing Ford, Ferrari, and Porsche all in one lump sum. Yes the common denominator is that they are cars but as you can see, Ferrari and Porsche are of a higher standard and quality. The same can be said of the Nokia, Android, Apple debate. Nokia is the junk dealer while Android and Apple are making premium class phones. Your comparison is moot. In the premium class phones, Nokia is an also ran.
Unregistered wrote:Well that would be three consecutive iPhones with the same defect then....And you can't blame me if I am locked into using the shitePhone because I need one particular app not available elsewhere.
I've got the browser, I've got the app, all wonderful apps but useless when I can't connect 😞
At least Nokia get these fundamentally important things like battery life and reception right.
What is this uber-mystery app that has you tied to a phone that you just can't get to work?
Unregistered wrote:That's like comparing Ford, Ferrari, and Porsche all in one lump sum. Yes the common denominator is that they are cars but as you can see, Ferrari and Porsche are of a higher standard and quality. The same can be said of the Nokia, Android, Apple debate. Nokia is the junk dealer while Android and Apple are making premium class phones. Your comparison is moot. In the premium class phones, Nokia is an also ran.
Taking your analogy a step further, applying the Apple model to Ferrari would force Ferrari owners to buy "special" Ferrari petrol and the engine would shut-down when the wipers were used "to save the battery"...
Unregistered wrote:I think it is natural for people to not like being controlled. Basically the average human is capable of managing their own multi-tasking environment and doesn't need their intelligence insulting by nanny apple. The jailbreakers have proved that the Apple excuses for doing things their way are crap and the whole thing is set up to get the most cash out of sucker consumers. OK if you are Apple and their shareholders, but not for me. I refuse to play.
Freedom is a great thing. But too much freedom is anarchy - a lot of problems😉
How much "freedom" can N97mini take? I'd say not much. It's good to be aware of the devices limitations and design it's features accordingly. N97 mini can't handle the freedom it was given. So you end up dissatisfied because the device doesn't work as advertised or actually stop using features that are a pain to use. So you have to enforce a degree of control yourself. That's what I do on a daily basis. Apple takes this burden off their customers. This way user satisfaction doesn't suffer. But I digress😊
What I was saying is that S60v5 implementation of multitasking on N97 mini is flawed and it's actually an illusion of freedom. "Full" multitasking concept is great. Provided it's executed properly.
Based on my experience and referring to your "freedom" concept Apple's multitasking is like being dropped in a car in the middle of the forrest with few, but well built, comfortable roads you can travel. You can't go in any direction. You only have a few choices. But the ride will be comfortable and you'll reach your destination fast.
S60 drops you in the middle of the forrest with a backpack (a comfortable one) and good pair of shoes😉 You are able to go freely in any direction. But there are no roads, and no paths. You'll finally also reach your destination, but you will be more tired, you'll probably need to make a few stops and will have to fend off mosquito swarms😉
If you are an adventurous, freedom loving type S60v5 experience will be great for you. If you just want to do your job quickly S60v5 will get in your way.
But that's just my opinion. Some people value unlimited freedom more than anything else. Even if it's a freedom to jump off the cliff;d. I think some limitations are absolutely necessary. Especially when you have only limited resources at your disposal. You have to use them wisely. N97 mini can't do that and in effect delivers much less than it promises.
manual_ wrote:Freedom is a great thing. But too much freedom is anarchy - a lot of problems😉
How much "freedom" can N97mini take? I'd say not much. It's good to be aware of the devices limitations and design it's features accordingly. N97 mini can't handle the freedom it was given. So you end up dissatisfied because the device doesn't work as advertised or actually stop using features that are a pain to use. So you have to enforce a degree of control yourself. That's what I do on a daily basis. Apple takes this burden off their customers. This way user satisfaction doesn't suffer. But I digress😊What I was saying is that S60v5 implementation of multitasking on N97 mini is flawed and it's actually an illusion of freedom. "Full" multitasking concept is great. Provided it's executed properly.
Based on my experience and referring to your "freedom" concept Apple's multitasking is like being dropped in a car in the middle of the forrest with few, but well built, comfortable roads you can travel. You can't go in any direction. You only have a few choices. But the ride will be comfortable and you'll reach your destination fast.
S60 drops you in the middle of the forrest with a backpack (a comfortable one) and good pair of shoes😉 You are able to go freely in any direction. But there are no roads, and no paths. You'll finally also reach your destination, but you will be more tired, you'll probably need to make a few stops and will have to fend off mosquito swarms😉
If you are an adventurous, freedom loving type S60v5 experience will be great for you. If you just want to do your job quickly S60v5 will get in your way.
But that's just my opinion. Some people value unlimited freedom more than anything else. Even if it's a freedom to jump off the cliff;d. I think some limitations are absolutely necessary. Especially when you have only limited resources at your disposal. You have to use them wisely. N97 mini can't do that and in effect delivers much less than it promises.
Great analogy and spot on. I would take 10 average people on the street and give them an iPhone to make a call or an N97 to make a call and I would be willing to bet that long after the iPhone users made their calls, the N97 users would still be trying to figure out how things work. It is not going to get any better with the supposed Jesus Phone (N8). Nokia simply does not understand the marriage of hardware and software. Nokia's philosophy is to throw hardware at the problem and hope the software keeps up. Apple has shown time and time again that excellent software coupled with good hardware will beat excellent hardware and well, software (saying that the current Nokia Symbian software is good would be a stretch.). So the Apple hating will go on as will higher and higher sales as people like a phone with some flash, as well as a phone that does just about all things well.