One of the interesting points made in this week's Insight Podcast was the large number of applications (primarily in the Ovi Store) that are only targeted at S60 5th Editon devices, leaving behind a large number of 3rd Edition owners. There are also a number of notable incidents wher
e applications or games are even more restricted, to certain handsets. Read on for some thoughts...
Read on in the full article.
It annoys me this "Get it on your Nokia" and by that they mean basically three different phones: N97, 5800 and the 5230.
I'm admittedly not a developer and if the revenue breakdown really is as you've reported then you can see the justification for what I would have otherwise called laziness.
Oomph, I'm sure that won't do much to spur E72 sales. Nothing like admitting that a platform is close to death to tank interest in a gadget.
And (according to the Wall Street Journal) with a likely new Nokia CEO within a few weeks, maybe even an American, coming in, who knows what the future holds for Espoo.
I would divide this a slightly different way.
Many of the 'serious' apps do come out for S60 3rd Edition (e.g. Skype). What we're not seeing is the more frivolous apps and games. Put another way it is the different between productivity / function adding content and consumable content (games, small 'fun' apps etc.).
I would add that its mainly S60 3rd Edition Feature Pack 2 devices that get supported - and I think a lot of this is down to the Nokia E72, which remains a very popular handset.
Hi,
There so many devices with S60 3rd edition on the market that it is in fact strange that there are so many applications/games on the Ovi support that support only the latest devices. But don't worry, not all companies ignore users of very popular 3rd edition S60 OS. In our company, Trismer Technologies, we know how important this market is. Our latest app, SyncLion supports not only the latest devices, but also huge number of devices from the 3rd edition series, even the very old ones.
A bit off topic but I have to say though, that if Nokia bundled in a Kinoma Play license for at least North American versions of the N8, I'd take a serious look at it, only because relevant content offerings for us here in the States from Nokia/Ovi are slim to none. It's why I was sold on the E71 even though it didn't offer a large touch screen.
Can you give more info where you got that breakdown from?
Jimmy1 wrote:A bit off topic but I have to say though, that if Nokia bundled in a Kinoma Play license for at least North American versions of the N8, I'd take a serious look at it, only because relevant content offerings for us here in the States from Nokia/Ovi are slim to none. It's why I was sold on the E71 even though it didn't offer a large touch screen.
So the thing that'd get you to buy a $500 phone is a $30 piece of software? Why don't you just pretend the phone costs $530 and buy the app yourself?
The latest Mail for Exchange seems to be the other way around, MFE 3.0 has been out for months with some useful new features, but it is only on 3.0 and 3.1. Newer devices still have to use the 2.9 versions which lack features like html and subfolders.
andynugent wrote:So the thing that'd get you to buy a $500 phone is a $30 piece of software? Why don't you just pretend the phone costs $530 and buy the app yourself?
Well, it was ONE of the things that would make me consider it.
I didn't mean to derail the topic, BTW, sorry Rafe/Ewan.
Another critical thing for me now is an ereader with a modern, up to date ebook marketplace, along with e-magazines. Basically, I would need a Kindle app for Symbian.
I am a game developer, and I have exactly the same sales figures 90% for S60 5th, 9-10% S60 3rd and the rest misc.
The thing is, it requires a total redesign of many game concepts to make it work on both touch AND non-touch. Some genres are impossible to do with only a D-pad for example (of course, the opposite is also true..) and that combined with the sales ratio - it not really worth the effort for the majority of the games.
S60 5th and it's Symbian^3 and ^4 and Meego successors are what will drive the gaming/entertainment segment for Nokia, absolutely no doubt about it.
"The split is, collating info from a number of sources, roughly 90 / 9 / 1."
I'd also like some more info on where you get this from.
Jan Ole recently tweeted the top 5 phones by Gravity sales:
Nokia E71, N97, 5800, E72 and N95 8GB.
Three of those are 3rd edition, only two are fifth edition.
The latest Ovi stats for Mobbler I have show the top 5 phones by free downloads:
23.8% - 5th - Nokia 5800 XpressMusic
14.7% - 3rd - Nokia N80 Internet Edition
13.2% - 5th - Nokia N97
07.3% - 5th - Nokia 5530 XpressMusic
07.1% - 3rd - Nokia E71
These top five account for 66% of downloads, 44% for 5th and 22% for 3rd, a 2 / 1 split.
Andy, can you share any interesting figures from your Ovi downloads?
Well, if the majority of the apps on Ovi are for 5th Edition, then logically they'll have more sales for them. I personally find it hard to believe there's such a big gap between 3rd and 5th Edition users.
Still using a N86 BTW.
I think there is a distinct difference between games and entertainment and productivity apps.
The games and entertainment things sell a LOT more on 5th Edition than on 3rd for us.
However I wouldn't be surprised if the numbers where reversed when it comes to productivity apps.
When you think about it seems logical. Users who prioritize a, say QWERTY keypad over a big touch-screen, tends to go for the serious stuff, and a person who wants the big touch screen propably wants to be entertained. Of course not all can put in such strict terms, but the tendency is there.
kin869 wrote:Well, if the majority of the apps on Ovi are for 5th Edition, then logically they'll have more sales for them. I personally find it hard to believe there's such a big gap between 3rd and 5th Edition users.Still using a N86 BTW.
N86 is a great phone, yet it doesn't get a lot of support. Where's the Facebook app for N86???
If S60 3rd Edition is slowly on its way out, with no obvious successor i.e. there isn't a whole new version of Symbian for non-touch in the pipeline, does that mean future non-touch Nokia devices will be all become Series 40? 😞
Not a great propesct for those who aren't touchscreen fans?
Unregistered wrote:N86 is a great phone, yet it doesn't get a lot of support. Where's the Facebook app for N86???
Mine came with a Facebook app but I uninstalled it because the mobile version of the Facebook site is pretty much the same. For me, it's easier to check FB when I'm surfing the web with Opera Mobile rather than using a separate app.
But anyways, I do see your point. The N86 has a bug where the camera app doesn't fully close after you exit (therefore draining the battery) that still haven't been fixed for the past few firmwares.
kin869 wrote:But anyways, I do see your point. The N86 has a bug where the camera app doesn't fully close after you exit (therefore draining the battery) that still haven't been fixed for the past few firmwares.
Don't expect that bug to be fixed anytime soon as according to Steve the N86 will no longer be receiving any new firmware updates according to his latest article. You can find the info halfway down the page:
http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/news/item/11836_Getting_older_Obsolete_End_of_.php
Unregistered wrote:Don't expect that bug to be fixed anytime soon as according to Steve the N86 will no longer be receiving any new firmware updates according to his latest article. You can find the info halfway down the page:http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/news/item/11836_Getting_older_Obsolete_End_of_.php
i remember reading that article when the last firmware came out. It's a shame really, because besides that bug, the phone is perfect!
so if s60 3rd is on its way out as you seem to indicate does that mean there will be no more non touch nokia smartphones? if that's the case, that's too bad
Everyone in this post has touched on things I would like to have happen, updates, the issue of these 5th edition numbers, but really is there such a big difference in these new offerings over 3rd edition. I believe not. I would currently only ditch my E90 for an E72 productivity is key for me, you should see my E90, the one pictured in the article looks brand new. A Meego device with qwerty may be an option worth looking into or more likely a Symbian^4 qwerty device. As to the end of on non-touch WHY! Why should they end?
I have seen similar sales figures, but all my apps run on both 3rd and 5th ed for a single sis file. So I do not believe that it is the lack of developer support.
Changes are that the reason 5th ed sells more apps than 3rd ed is that the latest 5th ed phones have the Ovi client on board, and the 3rd ed devices do not.
That means that 3rd ed users have to download and install the client themselves, and most people won't do that. Hence the differences in sales.
We have already seen that ease-of-use is the main reason most people will use an App Store,and this means we can put a number on ease-of-use, it gives you ten times as many customers.
Problem is, I don't see a mechanism to get these 3rd ed devices on board too. If most people are not installing the Ovi client, even more of them won't flash a new rom, especialy because PC Suite doesn't tell you there is a new and better one available.
Hi,
I think nokia need to make a roadmap of the device+OS.
Why? Because nokia still churning out the S60v3FP2 devices such as Nokia E5, X5, C5. If this platform were deemed absolute by software developer, then this platform will be surely take a big hit like a palm or MS kin platform.
Or maybe.... nokia need to make the Symbian^3 backport to the non-touch screen area for the devices without the touch screen.
I'm one of nokia fans that have been been putting my money on hold for buying new devices. I was about to buy the Nokia E71 then E72, but then think that I should instead buy the S60v5 devices, but then hold to buy N97/mini because I think the performance over price is not worthed, and chose to wait for S^3 devices instead. With C6/N8 were comming into horizon, the S60v3FP2 devices will surely take a hit even further, as more and more developer and people with money will buy the S^1/S^3 devices over the old v3 devices.
So, if nokia really want the old v3 devices still considered a good platform, nokia need to think a strategy for it. Or maybe stating that the S60v3FP2 platform would will be used 'forever', and will be scale down to cheaper devices over time. (I know this is what they did, but developer need nokia to write down this).
you just recognized with this prob the gemeral problem of symbian -the damned inconsequence- of the system. Dont understand me wrong i use symbian (with some breaks) since the 7650 came out. Now im using the highest evolved device the 8910i. And problems from the first s60 hours are still the same. Software runs on one device and not on another... This is nothing new. Even devices with the same s60v5 from diff. Companys are able to run the same software. This would be the same when a peace of soft would run on a dell windows pc but not on a hp.
You see this no problem between different os versions (where it is maybe understandable) but this a general prob of symbian.
But i also have to say this prob is not one of symbian alone. Also winmob has a similar problem (software often hast to fit special screen sizes to run correctly) and android has even the same prob. Many different os versions makes consistent software developing difficult.
snoe:
If you think Symbian is fragmented, try take a look at Android devices, now that is a catastrophy!
Try upgrading your Nexus One from Android 2.1 to 2.2 and watch half your apps crash after that! Or take some apps tested on the HTC Hero and try to run those on the Nexus One or Desire - BAM! Crashes half the time.
On Symbian at least it is only a few and far between S60 5th apps that have incompatibilities between Nokia/SonyEricsson/Samsung i8910.
The 8910i's original firmware have some crappy bugs, but sorted out with one of the HX firmwares and you have rather decent compatibility on that device as well.
Symbian is actually quite consistent. The few times when there are incompatibilities, it is usually because of the chipset and driver being different, which can cause some games that makes certain assumptions on the graphics system to fail on other phones with other chipsets.
Good example of this is the Polarbit games that only seem to work on Nokia S60 5th devices and not the SonyEricsson and 8910i S60 5th Ed ones. The main difference here is that the SonyEricsson and the 8910i have different graphics hardware.