C7 constant restarting

Actions taken so far:

1) Soft reset
2) Hard reset
3) Reload firmware via Ovi Suite

This lost me Ovi Maps, Ovi Store and Nokia Social and some widgets

Tried to get them back via the web site and the C7 is not listed as being compatible so I assume that the web site has not yet been updated for the C7.

Visited my local Nokia Care Centre. This was a branch of Carphone Warehouse and they were dfficult to say the least. The result was they recommended me return to the phone to Nokia.

Called Nokia support. They ran through what I have already done and then agreed that the phone was so new that my only option is to wait for t next software update!

So, I have paid nearly �400 for a phone that is not yet ready for the marketplace. I am very angry with Nokia. It looks like the N8 may have the same problem if you reinstall the firmware... and after all the delays with Nokia saying the wait was to ensure it was all 100% at launch.

If this is not resolved on the next firmware update (when ever that is - they couldn't tell me) then it is going back.

I am very angry... did I say that? Ah yes, sorry!

My first N8 had exactly the same fault as the one you describe. I exchanged it for another and this one has been solid and not rebooted once. It has been switched on for 5 days and I have been playing a lot with it and no crashes to report. You might therefore also have one 'made on Friday' phones.

Thanks.

I contacted Nokia to request to return it for a refund. They had the cheek to say that I would not get my shipping refunded! In the UK the law is clear: if a supplier sells a faulty item then they must refund shipping. I argued and now they arerefunding shipping.

I will try an N8 and see if I have any more luck with that... it was a very close call for me to go for the C7 or N8 anyway!

Hi SnaxMuppet

I'm very sorry to hear about this - something is indeed not right with your Nokia C7. We would really like to get your device back so that we can understand what's going on.

If you could possibly get in direct contact with me, I will make arrangements to swap your device.

Thanks

timallen wrote:Hi SnaxMuppet

I'm very sorry to hear about this - something is indeed not right with your Nokia C7. We would really like to get your device back so that we can understand what's going on.

If you could possibly get in direct contact with me, I will make arrangements to swap your device.

Thanks

N8Owner wrote:And who are you? Asking another user for this kind of transaction requires you to show that you work for Nokia. Are you working for them and if so where? Have you been vetted by AAS? You joined today so please forgive me if you are genuine but we need answers please.

Don't worry. He is obviously a fraud. Just ignore him and he will go away... if he hasn't already!

Good, I didn't want you to get ripped off. Glad Nokia are sorting out the problem with your phone. Let us know how it goes.

Thanks N8Owner.

Well the Nokia saga goes on... I tried to order an N8 this afternoon but their computer system has blocked my account. They don't know why and it takes 3-5 days to clear my order history before I can order again.

So I have changed my mind yet again (Iknow... you don't have to say it!)... I am now getting my C7 replaced instead of the refund and N8.

Well I did say it was a close call and the truth is that I would be more than happy with either. I prefer the styling and memory of the C7 but prefer the camera on the N8.

If the next C7 doesn't work I might then try the N8 - or I might get an HTC Desire!

Well the C7 is 95% of the N8 for a lot less cost so I think it is a good phone. I told my sister to get that but she ignored me and got an N8. Everyone wants the great camera it seems.

The Desire is also very nice phone (although the HD version is too big IMO) with some very good touches and innovations plus very well intergrated into everything Google and the social apps. Also look at the Samsung Wave (good 5mp camera with a bright LED). It's based on Bada OS and my wife has that one and very happy. Lots of reviews out there.

Strangely enough 'TimAllen's IP address appears to come from Irving, Texas on a 'Nokia Group Network'. So I'm not kicking him, yet. But i will keep an eye on his posts. Course if he really wanted to be Tim Allen, he'd be in Michigan :tongue:.

Hi UKJeeper

I can't comment on my IP location since I don't know how corporate networks allocate IP addresses and that might be misleading... but my physical location is Nokia UK, Farnborough, Hampshire.

Sorry for the lack of formal introduction earlier, but my name is Tim Allen and I am the Product Manager responsible for Nokia C7.

I sent a PM to SnaxMuppet proposing how to proceed with his problem. Let's see how he gets on tomorrow.

Tim

Well I do know your office in Farnborough so happy to give you the benefit of the doubt. If you are genuine we as users appreciate the membership of Nokia staff here who might be able to help.

So, Tim, what is the situation with the lack of availablity of Qt for re-installation by end-users after a hard reset, and why haven't Nokia either bundled it with the firmaware re-install option or a standalone download?

Secondly, on my hard reset I also lost all the Web Video Widgets, photos and videos that came preinstalled. Can these be downloaded again or is this only available by bringing the phone for a reflash - which isn't really worth the trip for me.

Tim, if you are the Tim Allen, Nokia C7 Product Manager, then I apologise for suggesting your could be a fraud!

I have replied to your PM now. Thanks.

I fear that you are too late though... I have now sent the offending C7 back using the Nokia Care RMA process.

I am interested in the answers to the questions N8Owner raises though (as mentioned in my PM).

Hi N8Owner

Well certainly some of the preloaded content will be deleted when you do a hard reset. Some of that can be reinstalled (eg Maps) but it's not as easily done as it could be, and at the moment it isn't possible to reinstall all the orginal content (eg wallpapers, videos etc).

We are actively looking at how to make that content available through Ovi Store, as a convenient place to go. The challenge is in making it easy and clear for the user to get the correct content, since the preloaded content varies over time and between (geographical) regions. We wouldn't want to package too much content together, since that could burden the user with a potentially very large download. But at the same time we want it to be convenient, and would like to avoid the "clumsy" posting of zip files on Nokia Discussions boards - it works (just) but it isn't easily maintained.

If you have particular thoughts as to how this could be organised, I'd be really pleased to hear that. But in any case, I will post back when I have an update.

Tim

timallen wrote:If you have particular thoughts as to how this could be organised, I'd be really pleased to hear that. But in any case, I will post back when I have an update.

Tim

Thanks for the reply.

Well the easiest method would be to make the packages available as either part of the firmware update i.e. Ovi Suite where the user is given the option to download between two types of files - 1. Normal firmware update and 2. Firmware update plus default files. Or a different method would be to make it available as an optional update altogether. This way Nokia can roll out region specific (by product code) default apps, setup and files.

And current problems should be avoided. For instance, the Qt part of the OS should be automatically installed as part of the firmware (it isn't region specific but critical for running the Ovi store and many new applications which are being released), which it doesn't do at the moment. So when doing a hard reset it removes this from the phone (it shouldn't do this) but then there is no way to install it again. I have found means to fix this after much trial and error but it shouldn't be this difficult for the average user.

Also a method of submitting bugs officially, instead of Nokia hearing about these from all over the web, would be very useful - just like your Beta Labs does. We also need an official page where Nokia can and will make announcements about the bugs that are being looked at and likely time-scales for resolution. The biggest frustration at the moment is that no one from Nokia responds to your user forum problems and the general lack of Nokia response makes things a lot worse than they should be. If a user feels and can see that Nokia are paying attention they can at least feel they are not being ignored which we currently don't have.

What I am most surprised at Tim is that a company the size of Nokia hasn't come up with a solution to this aready. It should be one of the primary considerations... what does a user do when a hard reset is necessary? How does the phone get returned to the state in which it was delivered?

Without wanting to be rude, it seems to me that there has been little testing done. Did anyone do a hard reset at Nokia and then try to return the phone to a useable state with the correct software...? The answer is either no or else it wasn't considered important. Either way it is a pretty poor show for the largest mobile phone company in the world!

I am not intending to have a go at you. I am just trying to show you just how rediculous the situation seems to the new C7 or N8 owner. It looks like no one is bothered at Nokia whether we have a working phone or not. Obviously you do or else you wouldn't be posting here... but I hope you can see my point?

The N8 delays seem to have been in vain it seems to me. It has the hallmarks of the N97 debacle all over again.

Hi SnaxMuppet

I completely understand your point, which is entirely fair. And I agree that it seems surprising that we don't already have a solution for this. In most cases it shouldn't be necessary to do a hard reset... the worst case failure should be resolved by either a power-cycle, or in really extreme cases a battery removal. In the case of a Nokia N8 where the battery is not readily removed, a long-press on the power key would do the same as removing & replacing the battery.

We try to ensure that any data "lost" in a hard reset isn't absolutely critical to the user, and in past products this has often been restricted to things like wallpapers. In some cases we've been able to protect data from being erased in a hard reset, but that isn't always desirable for memory-mapping reasons. And more recently, where we're able to do over-the-air updates of applications - such as Social - we have needed to put these into that "unprotected" area of memory. This is becoming more prevalent, where such regular updates are expected. The result is that more critical applications have become unprotected, and our mechanisms for replacing or recovering those after a hard reset haven't kept pace with this.

The sheer volume of data packages is daunting from a recovery perspective. Different operators, different regions etc require different data. So it isn't as trivial as it sounds to ensure that everyone can replace any data they lost in those circumstances. Nevertheless you could reasonably expect to be able to do that, and we're actively looking at this.

I understand your point about the apparent lack of testing done before launch. We have hundreds of people testing our software, all around the world. And in the case of Nokia N8 and Nokia C7, we've been testing for a very long time. We have automated tests hammering the software day and night in real-world use-cases. But as is the nature of complex software, it's never possible to pick up everything. And there are always some surprises. Sometimes those surprises really force the question "how on earth did we not see that earlier". But as you can see from numerous discussion posts, some people just don't see errors in the same software, under the "exact" same conditions as other people.

I hope I don't sound defensive... You raise good points, which I accept. I just want to give some explanation as to where we are and what's going on. As soon as we have more positive info I will post it here. But in the meantime, I will continue to follow these threads as much as I can.

Tim

Here are 2 small bugs that you might be able to pass on.

1. When setting the autolock function, the screen will not dim and switch off until lock is activated - either manually or based on the setting. So if a user wants to set the screen time-out to be 30 seconds but the lock to be 2-60 minutes the screen will stay on.
2. Notes and files in txt format do not scroll. The only way to scroll them is to highlight all the text first.

Thanks for that Tim.

On a personal note I fully understand your comments. I have been a software developer for over 30 years so I do understand the difficulties of testing complex software.

I would like to thank you yet again for your participation on this forum. It must be a little like walking into the lions den.

I am now awaiting the replacement C7 so when it arrives I shall be much more reluctant to hard reset!

Regards

Paul

I have today made a decision to return my N8. I don't do it with an easy mind but it has to be done. There are many things to like about the N8, but there are many more to dislike it.

SnaxMuppet, myself and hundreds of others are facing problems with our phones and it all comes down to either poor QA or a rush-to-market when Nokia were getting a lot of bad press. And the N8 seems like a stop-gap until the release of Meego. Yes Nokia have announced that Symbian^3 will get all the updates but the facts are that it won't be powerful enough to run Meego. These handsets have released some cash for Nokia to develop the newer OS but it hasn't in any way done something revolutionary or brought the product up to date.

There will always be problems with new phones but there are basic things that should work out of the box on a smart phone - browser, email and stable OS.

My first handset was faulty, rebooting every few minutes for no reason. The second was better but a hard reset laid to rest on using it. Nokia haven't made it easy to use the phone when things go wrong. Their support is abysmal and they are too slow to adapt for my liking.

My N8 doesn't seem all that different to my first Nokia; an Nokia Slide 8300 (?), N95, E71 and then E72. Unlike some I have not been a Nokia user for decades, just the last 7-8 years - being a SE man before that (Sony Mars Bar was my first phone in 1993)- but the lack of improvements to the OS for me are the final nail in giving Nokia the benefit of the doubt for the time being.

Normally when I dislike a manufacturer I stop buying their products but I don't write about it on a forum. That I am doing so means that I wanted for Nokia to wow me, to make me fall in love with a phone again and they have failed. And that also should show Nokia that I was passionate about their products to write this.

I have been fortunate in that I have the ability to play with a lot of different phones and OSs and my decision is to go to Android for now. Some phone manufacturers have made leaps and bounds with their OS, functionality and UI that is sadly lacking in the Symbian^3 products. Simple examples:

• Menu items and bookmarks can't be sorted alphabetically
• Can't search in music app by song title or artist
• Very clumsy and dated web browser
• Keyboards use is a joke - in landscape I can't use space bar to accept the suggested word. I have to either mistype the word on purpose to do that or use the right arrow and then press space bar. Why? In T9 (which I prefer as a portrait setting) sometimes I can use prediction and others not. I can understand when typing a password but why the inconsistencies?
• To search for something on Ovi Sotre, web etc. click once on the search box and then again to type
• Emails apps crashes when using Mail for Exchange (Gmail) and IMAP accounts don't work on push basis - something I have been doing perfectly for years on my E71/E72
• I can schedule the time for my email retrieval but this sets the time for all my accounts. Why?
• Notification light doesn't work for emails, also worked on E71/E72
• Setting the lock-time to be longer leaves the screen on until it locks
• And many more...

I might well be back but it won't be until the second firmware release for Meego - I will not become a beta tester for Nokia again. Android is mature now and somewhere I won't have to suffer too badly.

N8Owner, I am sorry that your experience has been such a bad one and I do understand your decision. It is one that I may well be taking myself if this next C7 isn't much better.

However, I do think that some of your grips can be properly explained. I realise that doesn't mean you will now like them though.

> Menu items and bookmarks can't be sorted alphabetically
> Can't search in music app by song title or artist
I must agree that this is simply pathetic that such a basic function is not available but I bet that they will be in a firmware update pretty soon.

> Very clumsy and dated web browser
Agreed. They have already announced the web browser update which will add much of the functionality of Opera Mini 5 although I do agree that the phone should have launched with the new browser. Browser is expected before the end of the year.

> Keyboards use is a joke - in landscape I can't use space bar to accept the suggested word. I have to either mistype the word on purpose to do that or use the right arrow and then press space bar. Why?
I can see why that might be so... I need to press the right arrow to indicate that I have accepted the word otherwise just pressing the space bar doesn't tell the phone that you have accepted the word suggestion. I much prefer the right arrow then space method.

>In T9 (which I prefer as a portrait setting) sometimes I can use prediction and others not. I can understand when typing a password but why the inconsistencies?
Yes, this is a fair criticism and again, something I suspect will be sorted in a firmware update.

> To search for something on Ovi Sotre, web etc. click once on the search box and then again to type
Similarly fair.

> Emails apps crashes when using Mail for Exchange (Gmail) and IMAP accounts don't work on push basis - something I have been doing perfectly for years on my E71/E72
I didn't think you should be using the Mail for Exchange part for Gmail. Isn't there a separate Gmail section?

Push email worked for me on IMAP during the little time it was working.

> I can schedule the time for my email retrieval but this sets the time for all my accounts. Why?
Don't know but it isn't a big deal for me.

> Notification light doesn't work for emails, also worked on E71/E72
On the 5800 I never got a notification light for email AFAIR.

> Setting the lock-time to be longer leaves the screen on until it locks
Isn't that what it is supposed to do?

I can certainly see what you are getting at but some of these issues are personal preference (predictive, email scheduling etc), some are easily fixable (search in music etc) and some are already due to be fixed (browser). I genuinely don't think it is quite as bad as you suggest for most people.

As for Meego... if you follow the AAS podcasts then Rafe Blandford would have us believe that Symbian is still a mainstream OS for Nokia with Symbian being the OS for mid-tier and Meego for high end. I think he is right and it means that Symbian phones will continue to be developed for the foreseeable future and certainly for the lifespan of the N8/C7.

SnaxMuppet wrote:
> Very clumsy and dated web browser
Agreed. They have already announced the web browser update which will add much of the functionality of Opera Mini 5 although I do agree that the phone should have launched with the new browser. Browser is expected before the end of the year.

Keyboards use is a joke - in landscape I can't use space bar to accept the suggested word. I have to either mistype the word on purpose to do that or use the right arrow and then press space bar. Why?
I can see why that might be so... I need to press the right arrow to indicate that I have accepted the word otherwise just pressing the space bar doesn't tell the phone that you have accepted the word suggestion. I much prefer the right arrow then space method.

> Emails apps crashes when using Mail for Exchange (Gmail) and IMAP accounts don't work on push basis - something I have been doing perfectly for years on my E71/E72
I didn't think you should be using the Mail for Exchange part for Gmail. Isn't there a separate Gmail section?

Push email worked for me on IMAP during the little time it was working.

> I can schedule the time for my email retrieval but this sets the time for all my accounts. Why?
Don't know but it isn't a big deal for me.

> Notification light doesn't work for emails, also worked on E71/E72
On the 5800 I never got a notification light for email AFAIR.

> Setting the lock-time to be longer leaves the screen on until it locks
Isn't that what it is supposed to do?

I can certainly see what you are getting at but some of these issues are personal preference (predictive, email scheduling etc), some are easily fixable (search in music etc) and some are already due to be fixed (browser). I genuinely don't think it is quite as bad as you suggest for most people.

Considering the fact that Nokia are in serious trouble I would have expected them to make doubly sure to launch a product that set a new standard for the market and users. And instead of doing that, with years of experience behind them, they couldn't even match their competition.

As for Meego... if you follow the AAS podcasts then Rafe Blandford would have us believe that Symbian is still a mainstream OS for Nokia with Symbian being the OS for mid-tier and Meego for high end. I think he is right and it means that Symbian phones will continue to be developed for the foreseeable future and certainly for the lifespan of the N8/C7.

As an example, the Qt based apps e.g. Ovi Store are about 3MB in size, and with a total memory capacity of 256MB RAM they have already shot themselves and us users in the foot. This same app written with the old AVKON would have been minuscule in comparison - kBs, maybe even kbs.

Like I said, it is farewell for now but not for ever. It depends on their next move. If the next product is robust and competes well with the rest of the market I will be back.

As a compliment to Nokia I will say they are very few manufacturers who build such great hardware. Except for Apple and maybe SE the rest are a pale comparison. I am buying a HTC and just look at the cheap plastic cover on the phone - it is penny pinching crap. But the phone does what I need it to do, and it does it now, not in 2 or 3 years time.

OK... I accept your comments but don't agree with all of them. What I do agree with is that Nokia have not developed nor innovated anything like as much as they should have done with Symbiam^3. They have developed the hardware admirably but the software has lagged behind.

I am not at all sure I agree with your assessment of Meego vs Symbian. Meego will power the high end devices that is certain but remember that Nokia make most of their revenues (and profits) from mid-range devices. The flagship devices are not the money-spinners for them worldwide. The vast majority of their profits will come from mid-range devices in developing countries... India, China etc. It is tempting to imagine that the N8s and similar devices are the life-blood of Nokia but they aren't as important as we might imagine. Yes, they carry prestige but won't sell in the numbers necessary to be huge profit makers. For this reason Symbian will become even more important than Meego over the coming years to Nokia as it will power the devices that generate the bulk of their revenues. They won't be able to drop Symbian development... it is pretty much guaranteed as far as Nokia's current plans go.

Just my opinion I know...

Sorry you won't be an N8 owner any more as you make a valuable contribution to these discussions.

I have my replacement already! That is just 5 days from returning it to Nokia.

I have used it constantly for about an hour and it hasn't restarted at all. I realise it might be too early to be certain that it is fixed but it is looking good.

I will post again if I have any other issues but in the mean time, if I have not posted then it is safe for you to assume that all is well.

Hi Snax,

Been experiencing the same frustrating probs, did a google search and landed up here.

I really like the build and interface of the C7, so I don't want to be so quick about giving up on it.

Keep us posted on your replacement, would you?

Thanks
Justin

I used the replacement C7 almost continuously yesterday for about 9 hours and it worked almost perfectly... no more reboots. So it seems that these reboots ae hardware related although it has been suggested that the Sim Card might have something to do with it. I am getting my Sim replaced as it is morehan 2 years old.

So I am happy that the restarts are now fixed.

I still have a sotware issue though with Ovi Store. It won't let me buy anything (see separate post) but to be honest that is something that will be fixed soon I am sure so I am not concerned about it.

More updates later.

I've got 2 close friends here very happy with C7 for 2 weeks already witthout rebooting and restart. They are also happy with the web browser.

Just a quick follow up from me...

My 2nd C7 has pretty much behaved itself but last night it hung again. It didn't restart this time so it might not be hardware but it did completely hang and was non-responsive for about 45 secs. Eventually I removed the battery. Later in the evening it hung again, this time for about 30 secs, and then it returned to normal without me needing to remove the battery.

I have decided that as this is my second phone I am returning it to Nokia Direct for a refund.

I am going to give the N8 a try. I realise that the N8 is having similar problems from reading the N8 threads on the forum but I might be lucky!

I am getting the N8 from O2 at �330 (instead of �430 from Nokia). OK, it is branded a little and I will get firmware updates after general release but it is �100 cheaper!!!

I will post on other threads if I have any issues with that... it arrives today.

Good luck to all C7 owners. It is a lovely phone but I can't have a 3rd!

Could you describe a little more what was the phone doing and its battery status before it hang.