April 12th

bazao wrote:
And @ironass, the chinese source got really close! But I will not complain about him, because he might be those hackers which hacks the chinese firewalls! hahaha

I'll let you off bazao.

I've been a Nokia user for 12 years and a "smartphone" one for 6.

I really never expected anything less from them than what we have had today.

Today was not about us, the users, but about trying to put their position across to faltering investors and to buoy up the markets. Basically it's all window dressing... changing from numbered updates to names and then telling us that existing users won't be getting the full PR2.0 but "Anna", a cut down version.

This will hopefully string everyone, markets and users, along and buy Nokia more time for Windows Mobile7 release.

Yes, you are right. Maybe I'm just an optimistic customer.

And Nokia's stocks still sink.

bazao wrote:And Nokia's stocks still sink.

Tell me about it!!! 😡

The two best phones I had from Nokia were the N95 and E90. Since then its been downhill all the way!

Two comments I had recently sum it all up...

My 21 yr old step daughter, when I offered her the N8...

"No thanks, Nokia is soooo uncool. It's for old people"

The other was from my mate Roger who knows that I was a Nokia fanboy...

"You still using one of them dinosaur phones?"

Even Nokia's own ad agency are hard pushed to sell the N8 as a smartphone and, here in the UK, instead show a blind man using it as a camera!

That seems to be the point that everyone latches on to, and I don't argue with it, it has a great camera... and speakers but if I read one more article that tries to salvage the N8 on the strength of that alone... I think I'll scream. :argh:

ironass wrote:Tell me about it!!! 😡

Even Nokia's own ad agency are hard pushed to sell the N8 as a smartphone, here in the UK, and instead show a blind man using it as a camera!

Yes, because its OS is awful. I mean, I love Palm's PDAs so for me it's normal to get lags, locks, bugs and that kind of stuff. Because altough that stuff, I'm able to have a whole control about the phone.
But if we compaire with iOS for example. I know iOS has A LOT of issues but it runs smooth and fast - so the customer thinks 'I already have a lot of troubles. Do I deserve one more with my smartphone?'

That's why I'm so angry about Nokia: clearly, it is a software problem and they don't seem worried about it. The partnership I undertand like a 'let's reborn' thing. 'But screw you, Symbian owners.'

ironass wrote:Tell me about it!!! 😡

The two best phones I had from Nokia were the N95 and E90. Since then its been downhill all the way!

Two comments I had recently sum it all up...

My 21 yr old step daughter, when I offered her the N8...

"No thanks, Nokia is soooo uncool. It's for old people"

The other was from my mate Roger who knows that I was a Nokia fanboy...

"You still using one of them dinosaur phones?"

Even Nokia's own ad agency are hard pushed to sell the N8 as a smartphone and, here in the UK, instead show a blind man using it as a camera!

That seems to be the point that everyone latches on to, and I don't argue with it, it has a great camera... and speakers but if I read one more article that tries to salvage the N8 on the strength of that alone... I think I'll scream. :argh:

Nokia still hasn't gotten touch right. Most phones by Nokia, which haven't had touch have been good or great, but after touch interface, it's all been downhill.

Worst phone I've ever owned is N97. It's worse than my 2110 I used to have.

Nine months ago I lost my N97 classic and tried to get another through insurance as I had invested so many man hours in trying to make it usable.

However, because Nokia had ceased manufacture of them within a year of release I was offered a range of mid to low end Nokia phones or the Google/HTC Nexus One, released in January 2010.

I thought, why not, and as it turns out it was the best decision I ever made.

Now running on Gingerbread 2.3.3 with a custom ROM and kernel, it beats the N8 into the ground in every respect except for Camera (which is a good 5mp), speakers and Ovi Maps although Google is catching up fast.

So much so, that when I was given the N8, just prior to release to test, I find myself using the Nexus One as my main phone and the N8 as a back-up... God forbid.

I can flash a whole new ROM in less than 5 min's and do so on a daily basis usually as I've become a "crack flasher" using custom built ROM's from Cyanogen Mod's which are released almost daily and are cutting edge and address any problems very quickly. No waiting 6 months for an update, I receive a notification on my handset automatically when they are available. I do these OTA with none of the fuss of having to back everything up and wiping and restoring every time.

Even the Market will, if I choose, automatically download updated versions of app's (76 of the 86 I've installed are free) although I choose to receive just the notifications of updates as I like to see what I'm getting. No more trawling through only to find that your symbian app is well out-of-date.

True, Android is open source and therefore can be open to abuse but after the recent scandal, when 54+ app's were found to be corrupt on the Google Market, they were withdrawn immediately by Google and automatically removed from handsets by them.

Having said that, it is so easy to wipe and restore on Android that a virus does not concern me as all my data is stored in the "cloud", so no matter where I am I can restore my handset even if it's stolen and I get a replacement.

My apologies for going on about Android but in all fairness I'm trying to illustrate what Nokia are up against and I could go on as these are only the tip of the iceberg.

(Sits back and waits to be harraunged :rolleyes😊

ironass wrote:Nine months ago I lost my N97 classic and tried to get another through insurance as I had invested so many man hours in trying to make it usable.

However, because Nokia had ceased manufacture of them within a year of release I was offered a range of mid to low end Nokia phones or the Google/HTC Nexus One, released in January 2010.

I thought, why not, and as it turns out it was the best decision I ever made.

Now running on Gingerbread 2.3.3 with a custom ROM and kernel, it beats the N8 into the ground in every respect except for Camera (which is a good 5mp), speakers and Ovi Maps although Google is catching up fast.

So much so, that when I was given the N8, just prior to release to test, I find myself using the Nexus One as my main phone and the N8 as a back-up... God forbid.

I can flash a whole new ROM in less than 5 min's and do so on a daily basis usually as I've become a "crack flasher" using custom built ROM's from Cyanogen Mod's which are released almost daily and are cutting edge and address any problems very quickly. No waiting 6 months for an update, I receive a notification on my handset automatically when they are available. I do these OTA with none of the fuss of having to back everything up and wiping and restoring every time.

Even the Market will, if I choose, automatically download updated versions of app's (76 of the 86 I've installed are free) although I choose to receive just the notifications of updates as I like to see what I'm getting. No more trawling through only to find that your symbian app is well out-of-date.

True, Android is open source and therefore can be open to abuse but after the recent scandal, when 54+ app's were found to be corrupt on the Google Market, they were withdrawn immediately by Google and automatically removed from handsets by them.

Having said that, it is so easy to wipe and restore on Android that a virus does not concern me as all my data is stored in the "cloud", so no matter where I am I can restore my handset even if it's stolen and I get a replacement.

My apologies for going on about Android but in all fairness I'm trying to illustrate what Nokia are up against and I could go on as these are only the tip of the iceberg.

(Sits back and waits to be harraunged :rolleyes😊

I totally understand you. I've had a Nokia since 1993 and never had any other phones. This week I ordered an iPhone for my personal use after I got disappointed by E7. E7 will remain as my business phone, but simply because the 3 home screen system doesn't work like it suppose, I decided to get a separate phone. I created a business home screen and personal home screen, but every time I press Home button after using an app etc, the phone reverts to the primary screen which is my business screen. I don't want to look at my business calendar or my business emails whilst off duty.

Sure, iPhone hardware is far from others, but the usability and the apps available just kill the competition, and it works perfectly with my personal laptop which is Mac.

E7's 'full focus' camera doesn't even read barcodes, because it can't do macro. Big QR codes work, but regular barcodes don't. :icon13: That was the last draw.

I notice that both Nokia and HTC made announcements today.

Nokia was promoting it's new phone the X7-00

HTC were promoting their new phone the Sensation.

Here they are, side by side:-

http://www.gsmarena.com/compare.php3?idPhone1=3664&idPhone2=3875

Video for Nokia X7-00:-

http://blog.gsmarena.com/here-is-what-the-new-symbian-update-anna-is-all-about-video/

Video for HTC Sensation:-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COi4S1yoyO4

Media reaction:-

"The new HTC Sensation phone reflects the mountain Nokia needs to climb to close the hardware and software gap with its rivals," said Ben Wood, research director at CCS Insight.

"On the day Nokia unveils the 600Mhz X7 'entertainment phone' it has been trumped by HTC's Sensation which has a dual-core 1.2Ghz processor".

Apple's iPhone was using 600 MHz processors two years ago."

"It's just a bit too late to put Humpty Dumpty back together," said Tero Kuittinen, analyst at MKM Partners of Nokia. "Developers are bailing out in droves."

Nokia's weakening position in the high end of the market is expected to drag its underlying first-quarter earnings per share 29 percent below last year's, a Reuters poll of 31 analysts showed on Tuesday.

Underlying operating profit at its key phone unit -- an important metric for the company -- is expected to drop to 8.6 percent from 12.1 percent a year earlier."

http://www.baltimoresun.com/business/sns-rt-tech-us-nokia-htctre73b43g-20110412,0,681762.story

What impresses me isn't the fact Nokia can't bring new people to the brand. What impresses me is how they don't care about old customers.

bazao wrote:What impresses me isn't the fact Nokia can't bring new people to the brand. What impresses me is how they don't care about old customers.

I agree but we seem to be at odds with Rafe on this...

"As with Nokia's first batch of Symbian^3 devices, the X7 is far less about gaining users from devices running on the competing platforms and far more about retaining existing Nokia users and gaining totally new customers."

http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/news/item/12780_Nokia_X7-Symbian_smartphone_wi.php

ironass wrote:"On the day Nokia unveils the 600Mhz X7 'entertainment phone' it has been trumped by HTC's Sensation which has a dual-core 1.2Ghz processor".

Apple's iPhone was using 600 MHz processors two years ago."

It's good to see that the processor wars have moved from the desktop to the mobile space. Does it really matter how fast the processor is if the phone operates as expected? Angry Birds runs as fast on my N8 as it does on my iPad. Do I care how fast the processor is in each one? No.

JayTay wrote:It's good to see that the processor wars have moved from the desktop to the mobile space. Does it really matter how fast the processor is if the phone operates as expected? Angry Birds runs as fast on my N8 as it does on my iPad. Do I care how fast the processor is in each one? No.

At least with E7, there are significant pauses where the phone just doesn't react to anything and because of the oversensitive touch screen you end up pressing buttons multiple times and suddenly you're in some weird settings screen etc.

E7 is just sluggish, as was N97.

HoneyMonster wrote:At least with E7, there are significant pauses where the phone just doesn't react to anything and because of the oversensitive touch screen you end up pressing buttons multiple times and suddenly you're in some weird settings screen etc.

E7 is just sluggish, as was N97.

N8... ditto! 😡

I didn't get on with the nexus one for a few reasons and would choose a n8 over it anytime , I know everyone is different but i sold my nexus one after 12 weeks max

I found that :

battery life wasnt great , signal was average , speaker volume for sat nav wasnt the best , multi-touch is poor , 3D gfx are poor due to weak gpu , no support for wired remote controls , no mass memory , camera is poor and flash useless , poor screen in sunlight ,

that's just off the top of my head , yeah android is ok for a smartphone platform but for me its completely overrated and Symbian underrated .

you mention the free apps , how many of them support adds , i bet a lot of them do which means internet access just to use an app or game . I would rather pay for the full version .

you also mention cloud service's all very well as long as you have 3G or wi-fi reception and arent abroad or out in the sticks somewhere . give me massive mas memory and micro sd slot for files stored on my drives for access anywhere anytime 😊

as its been said many times before at the minute Nokia and Symbian doesnt need a 1ghz cpu , everything runs through the gpu which in real life performance is as good as the iPhone or sgs gpu

android needs a 1ghz cpu as it uses the cpu to run most things although this is about to change in future android releases and the o/s will now be gpu accelerated

everyone to their own and everyone should use what makes you happy but as I said at the start give me the n8 over any phone out there for the convergence it offers , nothing comes close to the n8s convergence

the only thing it misses is dlna/upnp , its built into s3 , just need an app to acces it and use it.

one thing I did love about the nexus one , the resell value 😊 I got over �430 pounds for it as they were quite rare 😊

to be honest i was gutted i got it , i lost my n900 and voda offered me the nexus one . I would much rather have had another n900 .

i know your obvously different and have different needs and thats the point iam trying to make , not everyone is the same and i bet there are loads of people that would find the n8 a better phone for their needs then the nexus one .

i also think pr2.0 looks ok , symbian just needed a refresh and its getting it .

happy n8/symbian user here , i bought the n8 for how it was launched all these updates are just bonuses to me 😊

Announcement may not be so exciting for potential buyers, yet for the people who already own a ^3 device, it could have gone either way. With companies like Apple updating their few devices, people seem to have the unrealistic expectation manufacture would roll out updates, for any phone - only that Nokia has much wider a range. Gone may be the Symbian glory days, though these devices are very much usable.

With regards to 1+Ghz GPU, in my brief experience with Android, tweak it as you may want, though more often they become liability, when it comes to not lasting the day without charge. My N8 works conversely just fine for upto 2 days...

I don't know if all of you can understand italian (I can't), but I was checking a blog and it posted this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=rmHe5sLI2Gs#at=38

I was told that Ms. Tiziana Pollio, Nokia Italia's Director of Communication, said Symbian Anna will be available in a few weeks. Yes, it doesn't depend on the official launch of E6/X7.

Let's wait. And be optimistics... oh well... Mr. Elop, I will kill you! hahaha

Thanks buxz777, as you say, "everyone to their own" but therein lies the whole problem... customers worlwide, in their millions, have decided not to make Nokia smartphones their own, for whatever reason, and that is why Nokia finds themselves in their present position.

As for that reason, Nokia's Chief Executive Officer, Stephen Elop, probably in the best position to make a judgement, sums it up best in his "Burning Platform" memo of the 8th February this year, when he states...

"The first iPhone shipped in 2007, and we still don't have a product that is close to their experience. Android came on the scene just over 2 years ago, and this week they took our leadership position in smartphone volumes. Unbelievable."

"Consumer preference for Nokia declined worldwide. In the UK, our brand preference has slipped to 20 percent, which is 8 percent lower than last year. That means only 1 out of 5 people in the UK prefer Nokia to other brands. It's also down in the other markets, which are traditionally our strongholds: Russia, Germany, Indonesia, UAE, and on and on and on."

One statement you make in your posting is unclear to me..

"give me the n8 over any phone out there for the convergence it offers , nothing comes close to the n8s convergence"

I read a lot about "convergence" but admit that I do not understand its definition in this context, or why Android and iOS are not convergence devices?

ironass wrote:Thanks buxz777, as you say, "everyone to their own" but therein lies the whole problem... customers worlwide, in their millions, have decided not to make Nokia smartphones their own, for whatever reason, and that is why Nokia finds themselves in their present position.

As for that reason, Nokia's Chief Executive Officer, Stephen Elop, probably in the best position to make a judgement, sums it up best in his "Burning Platform" memo of the 8th February this year, when he states...

"The first iPhone shipped in 2007, and we still don't have a product that is close to their experience. Android came on the scene just over 2 years ago, and this week they took our leadership position in smartphone volumes. Unbelievable."

"Consumer preference for Nokia declined worldwide. In the UK, our brand preference has slipped to 20 percent, which is 8 percent lower than last year. That means only 1 out of 5 people in the UK prefer Nokia to other brands. It's also down in the other markets, which are traditionally our strongholds: Russia, Germany, Indonesia, UAE, and on and on and on."

One statement you make in your posting is unclear to me..

"give me the n8 over any phone out there for the convergence it offers , nothing comes close to the n8s convergence"

I read a lot about "convergence" but admit that I do not understand its definition in this context, or why Android and iOS are not convergence devices?

i'd say that Elop is concerned with sales.

i'd say that buxz777 is concerned with finding the right phone for him.

torrentblock wrote:i'd say that Elop is concerned with sales.

i'd say that buxz777 is concerned with finding the right phone for him.

:con?

Shouldn't the two be mutually compatible?

No sales = no company = no phone.

Not rocket science... as Nokia are discovering.

ironass wrote::con?

Shouldn't the two be mutually compatible?

No sales = no company = no phone.

Not rocket science... as Nokia are discovering.

i don't particularly care how many records Britney Spears sells, i'd rather listen to techno.

torrentblock wrote:i don't particularly care how many records Britney Spears sells, i'd rather listen to techno.

OK... I'll do this slowly...

Using your analogy...

Let us say that the only company that soley produced techno records suddenly found that their sales had plummeted, because hardly anyone was buying techno anymore, they would be forced to close down and there would be no more techno records produced in future.

Ergo... No sales = no company = no more techno records for you to buy.

ironass wrote:OK... I'll do this slowly...

Using your analogy...

Let us say that the only company that soley produced techno records suddenly found that their sales had plummeted, because hardly anyone was buying techno anymore, they would be forced to close down and there would be no more techno records produced in future.

Ergo... No sales = no company = no more techno records for you to buy.

and seeing as you find the pace difficult to keep up with i'll slow down for you too.

just because techno records aren't being produced doesn't mean i'm going to start liking britney spears, no matter how much other people bang the drum about how much better she is than techno.

you're wasting your time. this forum is all about symbian. you might as well go onto a techno forum and tell them how much better britney spears is.

you're trying to knock clouds out of the sky using your shoes and you look ridiculous. troll like.

torrentblock wrote:and seeing as you find the pace difficult to keep up with i'll slow down for you too.

just because techno records aren't being produced doesn't mean i'm going to start liking britney spears, no matter how much other people bang the drum about how much better she is than techno.

you're wasting your time. this forum is all about symbian. you might as well go onto a techno forum and tell them how much better britney spears is.

you're trying to knock clouds out of the sky using your shoes and you look ridiculous. troll like.

At no point have I said that you should "start liking britney spears".

I, to use the analogy, pointed out the simple economic fact, that without sales there would be no more new techno records for you to buy.

As you seem to have fallen back to name calling to make your point it seems that I must withdraw from this battle of wits as I never pick on an unarmed man. 😃

......I'm confused :con? I now have a picture in my head of Elop jumping off a burning oil rig whilst listening to a techno remix of Britney Spears on an iPhone 😮

@torrentblock hahahahaha you have no idea how ridiculous you make yourself accusing ironass of being like a troll: I spent much of late 2009 and 2010 vigorously debating (arguing maybe if you will) whilst I was berating Nokia and their ability to deliver Symbian competently with the N97 with ironass supporting Nokia and saying that it wasn't necessarily worse than other OS's and they were getting there. I still maintain they weren't and that other OS's were accelerating away faster and that the N97 was a disgrace at launch and remains so on v2.2 firmware whilst many non-flagship devices were supported way past it. The fact that anyone in Nokia could sign off on and release such a device served as stark evidence of the almighty problems they were in as their subsequent performance has borne out.

It's starting to show how detached from history and the reality of the situation Nokia is in (thanks to their own ineptitude) they are that the fanbois are now rounding on many long term members of AAS who express disappointment with the recent path Nokia has taken or dare to criticise them or their devices or the sainted symbian. If things were great Nokia's market share would be stable and their overall device sales would have gone up last year as opposed to the reverse. No company can carry on in the nose dive Nokia has been in for the last few years.

evilweasel wrote:......I'm confused :con? I now have a picture in my head of Elop jumping off a burning oil rig whilst listening to a techno remix of Britney Spears on an iPhone 😮

hahahahaah nice trolling!

Wow.. I dont respond for a few days and we've gone techno Britney jumping off blazing oil rigs?

Doesnt matter what - Elop is still a M$ Biatch that will continue to suck up to M$ regardless - very blatant in his comments.

However, have you guys noticed that the directional statements Elop makes is kinda different from what his CTO (cant remember his name) says? Elop's delivery was very much "Symbian is an exiting technology, and will be contained". Whereas the truth is, they have actually sped up development of Symbian updates and products since then (also according to CTO)?

But then again, they really have no choice given Elop was the one that burnt the rig in the first place and havent got anywhere to jump to since Windows phone 7 ship is miles away..

bchliu wrote:Whereas the truth is, they have actually sped up development of Symbian updates and products since then (also according to CTO)?

.

I think Nokia decided to sped up things because the reaction of customers were SOOOOOOO negative.

snoFlake wrote:@torrentblock hahahahaha you have no idea how ridiculous you make yourself accusing ironass of being like a troll: I spent much of late 2009 and 2010 vigorously debating (arguing maybe if you will) whilst I was berating Nokia and their ability to deliver Symbian competently with the N97 with ironass supporting Nokia and saying that it wasn't necessarily worse than other OS's and they were getting there. I still maintain they weren't and that other OS's were accelerating away faster and that the N97 was a disgrace at launch and remains so on v2.2 firmware whilst many non-flagship devices were supported way past it. The fact that anyone in Nokia could sign off on and release such a device served as stark evidence of the almighty problems they were in as their subsequent performance has borne out.

It's starting to show how detached from history and the reality of the situation Nokia is in (thanks to their own ineptitude) they are that the fanbois are now rounding on many long term members of AAS who express disappointment with the recent path Nokia has taken or dare to criticise them or their devices or the sainted symbian. If things were great Nokia's market share would be stable and their overall device sales would have gone up last year as opposed to the reverse. No company can carry on in the nose dive Nokia has been in for the last few years.

snoFlake, snoFlake, snoFlake! 😊

I would never dream of arguing with a lady.

I prefer to think of them as educated, well informed debates enabling us to offer our own points of view.

Now look at us... what strange bedfellows we now make.

Time, I admit has proved you right and I would like to publicly acknowledge that fact on this forum.

In part, I dedicate this fairy story to you as I feel sure you may appreciate its full significance:-

http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/forum/showpost.php?p=485927&postcount=1

:wink:

snoFlake wrote:@torrentblock hahahahaha you have no idea how ridiculous you make yourself accusing ironass of being like a troll: I spent much of late 2009 and 2010 vigorously debating (arguing maybe if you will) whilst I was berating Nokia and their ability to deliver Symbian competently with the N97 with ironass supporting Nokia and saying that it wasn't necessarily worse than other OS's and they were getting there. I still maintain they weren't and that other OS's were accelerating away faster and that the N97 was a disgrace at launch and remains so on v2.2 firmware whilst many non-flagship devices were supported way past it. The fact that anyone in Nokia could sign off on and release such a device served as stark evidence of the almighty problems they were in as their subsequent performance has borne out.

It's starting to show how detached from history and the reality of the situation Nokia is in (thanks to their own ineptitude) they are that the fanbois are now rounding on many long term members of AAS who express disappointment with the recent path Nokia has taken or dare to criticise them or their devices or the sainted symbian. If things were great Nokia's market share would be stable and their overall device sales would have gone up last year as opposed to the reverse. No company can carry on in the nose dive Nokia has been in for the last few years.

shorter sentences please. i have no idea what your point is.