Microsoft is currently holding a meeting for those who have been described as influential writers from the handheld web community. It's called Mobius and some of the biggest names are there.
Mobius is intended as a marketing exercise and allows the influential to talk directly to Microsoft, that is to be applauded, but it also acts as a great way to tempt people to the Dark Side (that is to say the Microsoft side)...
Microsoft have done this before, and it is a clever piece of marketing because by winning over. It is also something that in many ways does worry me. Microsoft is influencing people we trust. The handheld web community is a very strong one and is lead by relatively small numbers of people who have a great deal of influence within the community.
I'm not saying people need to worry, but I think inevitably being invited by Microsoft to attend such a conference is going to have a certain amount of influence on your thinking. Perhaps this is a positive thing as people will see the Microsoft light and how wonderful the Microsoft way is. Perhaps not.
What concerns me most is the lack of transparency in the process because I don't know which sites (and it mostly effects PPC sites) have been influenced to the degree they start spouting Microsoft PR talk.
You think I'm joking - here are some of the sites with people in attendence:
My-Symbian.info
infosync.no
WirelessSoftware.info
PocketPCThoughts.com
Lockergnome.com
DevBuzz.com
PDAGeek.com
and this list can't be complete since this a list only of those brave enough to say they are away at a conference (or Mobius themselves).
It makes me think - Is MS tempting your webmaster to the dark side?
Is this information based on facts or just propaganda from someone who really doesn't like MS? :-?
[quote="upponalle"]Is this information based on facts or just propaganda from someone who really doesn't like MS? :-?[/quote]
There is some guy at my-symbian.com newsgroups who is posting all kinds of accusations directed to M. Jerz. Among the immature insults he seems to have linked this post. Kind of eats away the credibility, if you ask me...
Well the mobius conference is a fact and as you saw ppl were there! however, I too dont think that M$ is doing something wrong here! Despite their faul ways with WINDOWS thei developed a lot of usefull software technologies, and I think you have to give them thumbs up for something like this! As long it is fairply it is alright with me!
While as far as I know (and I haven't looked closely - just browsed jpzr's excellent site) this is true - is it really something to be concerned about - in my opinion not at all.
Microsoft is merely doing a marketing exercise just because they invite someone it doesn't mean that person is going to be influenced by what they say. Given the extra information they may, for example become even more convinced that Symbian or Palm is the answer. I'd be willing to bet that Microsoft are doing this as mcuh to get information and views from the people attending as the other way round.
People should take note of what jpzr is saying it a good thing Microsoft is doing this - in all honesty it something that Symbian would be well advised to do. Symbian could certainly do with some extra exposure. After all this site and my-symbian.info are the only english language sites with lots of dedicated Symbian info on them (I'd say at this point that there are generic sites too, but with the exception of a few (pdageek, wirelessoftware.info) you see very little Symbian coverage).
I have to say I also find the first post a bit distasteful since it seems to be a bit too much of a direct attack on webmasters who on the whole do the work they do for free. Who cares if they get a few perks? And look at something like wirelessoftware.info - they are providing a report of the conference - that hardly seems to be lacking transparency.
And for the record, no I'm not attending, and no I wasn't invited - sounds like it would have been nice to get an invite!
[quote="jmas"][quote="upponalle"]Is this information based on facts or just propaganda from someone who really doesn't like MS? :-?[/quote]
There is some guy at my-symbian.com newsgroups who is posting all kinds of accusations directed to M. Jerz. Among the immature insults he seems to have linked this post. Kind of eats away the credibility, if you ask me...[/quote]
Couldn't agree more. I have not yet seen the posts you talk about, but I find any persoanl attack unacceptable. I would be very irritating if this person did something similar here. After all both sites are run by hobbyists.
The thing I cant understand is why is Microsoft inviting webmaster of Symbian sites? I though abou this but cannot come to an conclusion! It is ok for general wireless device websites but why symbian ones?
Of course M$ are trying to tempt people to the dark side, but that's their job. I think M$ are rattled and the fact that almost all the major phone manufacturers are making Symbian based smartphones instead of M$ powered ones has gotten to them. M$ have tried this sort of thing with the TabletPC thing they are pushing now, and as articles at El Reg have shown, it has backfired mildly with the journos who know their stuff although the non-techies like the BBC will lap it up. Another thought, PocketPCThoughts argued about the new Symbian devices as "no-one wants a phone/PDA combo", then when M$ announced the Smartphone version of windoze they were all "why did no-one think of this before, M$ are soooo innovative." and they weren't being sarcastic.
Inviting Symbian based people is a good strategy because at the mo Symbian seem to be getting it right, and as well as feeding these people the M$ corporate line, they will be taking in the comments they make afterwards. I'm assuming that many of the people there will have their postion on things changed little, ok the big M$ fans will probably love them more, but most of the Palm people are looking to Palm's next big thing which is due Real Soon Now (as the old BeOS team, now Palmsource team, used to say), and in the case of M. Jerz, if the Symbian people are like me there'll be little to tempt them too.
Theres also that no matter how much they convince web-journos, the big companies aren't gonna switch sides instantly and produce M$ based devices until they know what the product will be like. At the mo it's probably being compared to normal windoze and CE, full of holes, bloated and slow. M$ need to change that idea and this is one of the steps.
[quote="SwitchBlade"]Another thought, PocketPCThoughts argued about the new Symbian devices as "no-one wants a phone/PDA combo", then when M$ announced the Smartphone version of windoze they were all "why did no-one think of this before, M$ are soooo innovative." and they weren't being sarcastic.
[/quote]
I thought I was the only one to notice this tendancy!
They often accuse Palm of telling their users that software doesn't matter until palm says it matters, but they're the same with Microsoft. A few months ago, the fanboys were having wet dreams over recordable ringtones, and now that software has been released that lets them have a little thumbnail photo of the caller stored on their phone, they're on Cloud 9!
😮ops: Anyway, I've gone off topic so I'll stop!
[quote="TANKERx"]the fanboys were having wet dreams over recordable ringtones, and now that software has been released that lets them have a little thumbnail photo of the caller stored on their phone, they're on Cloud 9![/quote]
Oooh ooh, when will we get these features, I want I WANT. Bah gonna have to wait until 2000/2001 to see them and we are only in 2002... Damn their innovative ways.
jpzr,
I am one Symbian fan who is looking forward to some competition from MS. The smartphone has been a long time coming, which is why screenshots from an SDK are not quite what I expected. Did MS show any working phones at the conference, if I may ask? They are a huge corporation, but not that BIG in the mobile phone business 😊
Doc Searls is a co-author of the book The Cluetrain Manifesto: The End of Business as Usual and also works as senior editor in Linux Journal - a community oriented magazine about Linux.
He presented theory that nowadays, with raise of Linux and warchalking (putting marks on streets in locations where Wi-Fi/WLAN access points are available) the approach to doing business by big and small corporations changed (or HAS TO change if the want to survive). Big corporations no longer can ignore community activities like development of Linux and like warchalking.
Do I understand correctly? Is he putting Linux and Warchalking in the same position? What do Warchalking and Linux have in common?
i dont get it?
Smart people cannot be fool by M$ friendly behaviour!
A conference is a place where, under the mask of some attractive presentations and a lot of fun, the organizers are trying to ADVERTISE their products as much as they can, so that the audience will get the filling that those products are the best in the world, etc. Not that this might be something wrong, it is only business and marketing exercises as Rafe was observing before.
On the other hand, don’t get fool by sites who claim they cover ALL wireless platforms and that they OBJECTIVELY present them. Remember what TANKERs was correctly saying in another thread: “What I can't understand though is why news sites, like the BBC (of all people) seem to be so pro Microsoft, yet when they report on Nokia, they deliberately emphasise the negative.” and then OBJECTIVELY try to see if the sites referred in this thread are really objective, or in fact they seems to be most of the time so pro M$, yet deliberately emphasise the negative when it comes to Nokia...
The point about being general websites being objective is a good one. Inevitably you end are favouring one over another even if subcosciously. I know here at All About ER6 we are certainly pro-Symbian, porbably about as pro Symbian as they come, but I like to think that we are objective and fair for the most part. At one point I did contemplate extending the coverage of the site, but decided no to because I woudn't be able to do it fairly.
Thus being a single interest site is a lot easier. I have a lot of respect for sites like wirelesssoftware.info which cover all platforms (IMHO ws works because it is aimed not at cvering all, but covering wirelessofwate trends, and if you ask me the person running it has a soft spot for both Java and to a lesser extent Symbian).
I do hope that people see this site as objective about Symbian and not just a fan site. I like to think there's a fair amount of criticism of Symbian and the Symbian community here and some throughtful comments!
Rafe
Yeah baby???? 😃
First of all, Its ugly!
Second of all, try to compare it with the 7650 cover closed!
Third of all, try to compare it with the P800 (also symbian)
What phone company makes phones still with an aerial?
Ahhh, yes and my favorite one! Where was the Microsoft phone when the 7650 was firstly realesed????
So instead of praising Microsoft, think that a lot of phones will be availabe in the next months, better than the 7650, p800 and this Microsoft one!
😃 😃 😃
[quote="jpzr"][quote="MaleBuffy"]
Second of all, try to compare it with the 7650 cover closed!
[/quote]
haven't you seen the best movie ever: The Matrix?
I am not trying, I am doing:
[/quote]
Nice one so I see it is VERY longer than the 7650! I thought that this might have some potential, but now I see it doesnt! 😊
Anyways, will you do a detailed review to actually be able to compare the two or three ? Mening the OS and the actuall phones!
I try to be objective, but I see a MS Internet Explorer button on the MS phone. Does that men that you have to download all the time this lovely security updates that increase the crash factor of your computer...? 😃
Sorry, couldn't resist!
Also on the IE note, how does such a small form factor screen cope with pop-up advert windows.
Sorry but I tried many browsers and only Opera comes near IE. Opera is fun because you can open a new page without a new window (you know what I mean).
IE is incredible ... I can't believe what I had to do to get my Opera or Netscape to display all the content I wished (both the linux versions)
It has faults but the software has so many features.
The pro's are more then the con's, that's why most of u, use IE 2 ;p
Now I use IE with www.naviscope.com, this program acts as a proxy server for all your browsers and makes surfing faster (caching, keeping the connections open, prefetching(getting pages from links like next and previous so that they are already cached when you need them) and a popup killer for popups when pages loads(so normal popups still work) and it has a add killer.
No need for me to get another browser now 😊 I've got all that I need 😊 (still need the all in one window like Opera)
We all know what Microsoft does with innovative technologies, see Java , Netscape and Apple!
Operas new browser technology is quite amazing! Its truly one of the best technologies invented for mobile browsing! IE might be the best browser available for the PC but this does not mean that it will be for mobile phones as well!
You cannot compare the still-in-development mobile phones of Microsoft to the already-established mobile phones of Nokia and co. Series 60 is already full of programs and with other mobile phone manufacturers licensing Series 60 Microsoft has to catch up, just like they STILL have to catch up with the X-BOX on PS2.
Of course their phones will be better than the 7650 but where was Microsoft when the first 7650 was released. There will be better phones from Nokia as well but all this competition of course will mean, better and cheaper phones for us!
Well done Microsoft, now I can buy a Symbian phone cheaper! 😊
I have just finished reading the presentation-comparison of the 7650 and the MS Smartphone from www.wirelesssoftware.info ! I have to say that MS really did a lousy job! No bluetooth support yet!!! I mean hello?????? No menu switch button?? So what exactly is multitasking???? No MMS???? Do you think that networks buy expensive MMS hardware to NOT use it???? No camera? Where is the fun in that????
An about the 80% statistic, I mean come on do u believe that? So I guess we will not have cheaper phones and better OS'es becasue microsoft did a lousy job again!
Ok ok, when did M$ start making the worlds best web browser..... oh look they didn't.
Netscape was the best until M$ started pilfering their technologies and giving away a technically inferior product. As Netscape started going downhill Opera appeared which has been (for at least the last 3 years) the worlds best web browser. That fact is unarguable, personally I use Mozilla on both my BeOS boxes and Windoze box, I rarely get pop-up add windows and I don't have more security vunerabilities than I can shake a stick at. Hell my Windoze box doesn't even have IE on it (courtesy of Win98Lite). Then again if it wasn't for games I wouldn't have a Windoze box, so go figure.
[quote="MaleBuffy"]
You cannot compare the still-in-development mobile phones of Microsoft to the already-established mobile phones of Nokia and co.
Of course their phones will be better than the 7650 but where was Microsoft when the first 7650 was released.[/quote]
Your view is correct, and you indirectly just proved my point about pro M$ attitude of the site you referred before. To make this kind of comparison, prove at least bad intentions, not to say more…