Microsoft and the temptaion to the dark side....

/me ducks and leaves a piece of paper on the table for all to read to avoid the flames.

[quote="Paper"]
The company producing the M$ handsets will probably be HTC who did a fine job on the XDA which has managed to sell a total of 10,000 units at the most. Probably cos no bugger likes it.

Smartphones are being marketed as the "phones of tomorrow" NOT PDAs as some people seem to think. A PDA owner gives a toss about bugs, OS, software, and a bit of design. A phone owner want's a few of the extra features, BRANDNAME, and design. Phone owners don't care about OS, they do bugs, and moslty don't care about software. How many owners of current Java enabled phones that can download and play more games do you think actually know how to, and use, this service? Proably not many.

Here is where Symbian is ahead, it's OS is on devices manufactured by the top brands: Nokia, Sony/Ericsson, Siemens, etc. M$ are using start-up firms to make their devices. We are still in a brand name dominated world (why do you think Nike can sell pairs of trainers for �100, lmfao) and as such the mass market intrested in the phones want brand name and style.... This means Nokia mainly, if you go out with your mates and get them to put their phones on the table Nokia will probably be the most common manufacturer on that table. Basically to the majority of buyers you will be a new company coming in to sell them new trainers at the same price they can buy Nike ones, and we know who they will choose there.

The deranged lusers who get off on every spin and lie M$ present will do doubt buy a $martphone from M$, but with the PocketPC OS buglist starting to reach the proportions similar to Win9x. I've used an M$ PDA in the form of an iPaq and I much prefer my 9210, I doubt I'll buy an M$ $martphone unless somehow they are the only products available in the future for much the same reasons the only PC I have running windoze is only used for games. Basically I don't need M$'s crap and don't want it. I'd like to see a future where the more advanced phones you can choose your OS, but due to the way they like to make money this'll probably never happen.
[/quote]

Thanks for your response Rafe. What you say is exactly what I expected from you and is why I respect this site.

To Paper 😃

"The company producing the M$ handsets will probably be HTC who did a fine job on the XDA which has managed to sell a total of 10,000 units at the most. Probably cos no bugger likes it."

This actually worries me. Apparantly, O2 (BT Cellnet) have bought these by the bucketload. Now, if they can't sell them soon, they will simply drop the price in order to clear the stock (unless they are completely stupid). This in turn could put a bit of a dent in sales of other devices in the UK at least. Perhaps we are not talking big enough numbers here, but it is just a thought.

Zuber
(Soon to be Palm OS device owner - probably)

I personally think for the amount of work you put into this site that you should be rewarded with a 9210/7650/P800 ect... Hell if I had the money i'd buy you one myself.

I know what you mean about the great community though, this is one of the best websites i've EVER used, and I'm sure i'm not alone on this one. 😃

Izzo

"Hell if I had the money i'd buy you one myself"

Thanks for the offer J2theIZZO, but I think I'll be trying my hand at the Palm OS. At least until there is such a thing as the 9310 😃

And be honest, you could sell your MTB and get Rafe a device if you really wanted to 😉

Zuber

I am withdrawing from this conversation! It does not lead anywhere and I dont fancy spending time talking about what Microsoft wanted me to do! Talking about them! I guess that we all did fall for it! So I stop talking about MS and focusing on Symbian! They want us to start these type of conversations and I believe that when a site with a name like my-SYMBIAN.com talks about symbian in that way I start thinking about it more deeply! So happy advertising M$, I am out!

I'll add my comments tomorrow to some of the issues raised earlier, but since its now 1:30am here I'm going to bed. Gah - 9.00am lecture tomorrow.

Rafe

If Smartphone is not PDA,
what the hell Nokia make the 7650 (so called smartphone) like a PDA.
Why bother about Symbian C++ & OPL programming.
Just go for Java Phone. It is good enough to support a smartphone.

Why open it up(not too open ) to developer?
They should customized thier phone just like before.

Reduce the size,reduce the resource.

😃 😃 😃

[quote="Zuber"]
This actually worries me. Apparantly, O2 (BT Cellnet) have bought these by the bucketload. Now, if they can't sell them soon, they will simply drop the price in order to clear the stock (unless they are completely stupid). This in turn could put a bit of a dent in sales of other devices in the UK at least. Perhaps we are not talking big enough numbers here, but it is just a thought.
[/quote]

From what I read at The Register they bought 160,000 of them which were specially made for O2 and they seem to have shifted 10,000 of them. They are currently the UK's "most likely to fail" network operator. I remember when Cellnet (before BT) were a moderately decent network too.

>> They want us to start these type of conversations

Go to the beginning of this topic and check who started this conversation. And check how many posts there are BEFORE my first reply. My intention was to reply in ONE post to all previous comments about ME, MY SITE and reasons of attending the event. If some of you weren't posting here some insinuations about me attending Mobius, I wouldn't even sign up to this forum.

I didn't start this discussion. I only attended a conference. That's all. When I came back, there were already 2 pages filled with posts "wondering" about me attending the conference. Not to mention stupid assholes wishing me death in a plane crash, posting their comments on my site and giving links to this very topic. I don't owe you anything and I can go wherever I want. I am NOT going to give you any exuses or explanations (well, I think I already did). You can think of My-Symbian.com whatever you want. I don't care. There is no single word about Microsoft on my site. There is also no single bad word about Symbian on my site. Suspecting me of anything related to MS is RIDICULOUS. This way you should suspect several hundred of well known sites, because most of them attended Mobius during last two years, including major Linux and Palm sites. I haven't even published Mobius report on my site yet, because I considered updating my pages with overdue Symbian related information much more important.

>> when a site with a name like my-SYMBIAN.com talks about symbian
>> in that way I start thinking about it more deeply!

If you want to speak about Symbian and Symbian devices only good things then OK. You can say that their support is great, devices are bug free, customer service is most friendly in the world. It's your right to do so.

But being UNCRITICAL is worse than being an ENEMY. It's like not telling your friend that he has a big bird shit on his back just to keep him feeling that everything is alright or not telling the patient that he is suffering from cancer until he dies. Only true criticism can (hopefully) tell Symbian and Nokia that they are not always 100% "user friendly" and that there are many things to improve from the customer point of view. That's what can make them BETTER and STRONGER, and not saying that they are JUST FINE and Microsoft is BAD. This only reminds me stupid Amiga vs. Atari ST or Atari vs. Commodore wars, where one device was always 100% OK and the other was 100% CRAP. Bullshit.

And be a little bit more objective and honest: it is quite easy to find posts signed with your names in other topics, telling about bugs in software and instability, complaining about Nokia support, about releasing "i" versions in 5 months just to scrounge money off their customers, calling Nokia names because of no BT audio support in 7650 etc. etc. Strangely, in this topic you all forgot about any drawbacks and problems and any negative comment about Nokia or Symbian is considered a "Microsoft secret weapon". Pitful.

There is only one thing I really dream of: seeing all of you rejecting free invitation from Microsoft to an interesting event in Redmond/Seattle and refusing PocketPC and Smartphone devices they want to give you for free just for your comments about them. I would die to see it.

I'm outta here. I have no more time to spend on answering to ridiculous insinuations. Sorry, there will be no further replies.

"Go to the beginning of this topic and check who started this conversation. And check how many posts there are BEFORE my first reply. My intention was to reply in ONE post to all previous comments about ME, MY SITE and reasons of attending the event. If some of you weren't posting here some insinuations about me attending Mobius, I wouldn't even sign up to this forum. "

I did never have any problem with you or any other site going to Mobius! I support such attempts! However, I dont know who posted such bad things but they have nothing to do with this discussion! Its seems strange to me however, to hears such comments from you ONLY after you returned from Mobius! I may be wrong but then again I dont visit your site very often!

"But being UNCRITICAL is worse than being an ENEMY. It's like not telling your friend that he has a big bird shit on his back just to keep him feeling that everything is alright or not telling the patient that he is suffering from cancer until he dies. Only true criticism can (hopefully) tell Symbian and Nokia that they are not always 100% "user friendly" and that there are many things to improve from the customer point of view. That's what can make them BETTER and STRONGER, and not saying that they are JUST FINE and Microsoft is BAD. This only reminds me stupid Amiga vs. Atari ST or Atari vs. Commodore wars, where one device was always 100% OK and the other was 100% CRAP. Bullshit."

"And be a little bit more objective and honest: it is quite easy to find posts signed with your names in other topics, telling about bugs in software and instability, complaining about Nokia support, about releasing "i" versions in 5 months just to scrounge money off their customers, calling Nokia names because of no BT audio support in 7650 etc. etc. Strangely, in this topic you all forgot about any drawbacks and problems and any negative comment about Nokia or Symbian is considered a "Microsoft secret weapon". Pitful"

We are critical enough! As you mentioned in YOUR post we DO mention bugs, BT audio profiles so where exactly are we uncritical?

Listen Michael, as I mentioned I am not discussing it further since I dont really give a shit anymore! Its very stupid for me to talk about topics like this becasause nobody ever will change his mind! Its like trying to change your religion to something I believe in! Won't ever happen!

However, and this is my right to do so, I feel that you are biased and cannot be objective! I dont say that I am but you are not either! of course this is my opinion and I have the right to believe so!

I never said that u are connected with MS in any way, simpy becasue MS doesn't give a rats ass about you! Easy! I think that you mixed up the fact that someone connected your name with MS and the comparison of the two OSes.

Anyways, I think that you are a great person and do a good job,good luck with whatever you do I think that most ppl made their conclusions about the discussion! Happy posting to everybody! 😃

If Microsoft offered me a trip to anywhere to look at new toys and stuff, I would say yes please!!!!

But in response to some of the comments here (and I think Paper's comments were very good), I just want to add my musings;

Microsoft is a company corrupt to the core. I say this because I don't like them. If I liked them, I wouldn't say it. I am biased. I like some of their products, but that doesn't mean they have any moral fibre in them at all.

You may have read my look at their key selling points for the Microsoft Smartphone. Not one of those selling points is new, yet Microsoft fangirls are taken in by lies and proclaim that Microsoft has been innovative enough to push the boundaries of technology so that finally, there are phones that are no longer black and white, that at last, someone has produced a phone where you only need one hand to use it, that allow you to quickly find functions and applications, that integrate mobile messaging with contacts lists, that allows you to stay connected, play games and personalise.

If these were just selling points then it would be something, but it says something about the company and the blind followers of Ballmer when these points are sold as areas where Microsoft has innovated and provided something new! The one key point that is new to smartphones, and that I wouldn't want to see Symbian do, is the use of the Windows Interface that we are all familar with. I don't want a Windows interface on my phone, and anyway, the smartphone UI looks nothing like Windows, so that's another lie.

As for those who say that the Series 60 UI stinks, I think you're talking out of that stinky hole that's around the back, just above your legs. The UI has been an area that the reviewers have loved. It is quick, and new users hit the ground running so go boil your head!

Finally, I don't think users care about what OS is on the phone. They really don't, not the mass market anyway. Sure, the fangirls and the sandals'n'socks brigade will be attracted to the Microsoft logo like a fly to the blue light in a kitchen, but the vast majority won't care if it's Symbian, Microsoft or whatever. Some teens will be excited that they can download JAVA games, and send/receive MMS; No OS has a monopoly on that (although Microsoft has stated that since Nokia owns the MMS standard, they will not support it - just for the record, Nokia do not own the standard, another Microsoft lie).

This kind of argument only makes people depressed and muddies the waters. But it's good for having a go at Microsoft.

Michal, don't be offended by what people have said. You go to all the forums you like and if you have a spare ticket, drop me a line! 😃

MaleBuffy: Just this one short comment more. I wasn't replying to your separate post, but rather to all posts and comments I got after attending Moebius. I just wanted to close this discussion from my side with something like "recap".

I can only say that there were way to much emotions and suspictions about this trip. I went there, saw what was to be seen, got a nice XDA and returned home. No big deal. This trip changed NOTHING.

As for my comments about Symbian/Nokia... I was always telling the same. Before and after Mobius. Aren't they true? Just as you wrote - many of you write exactly the same in other posts/topics. The only difference is that I compared all this to MS here. Why? Just because I've seen MS in action lately and I know they've been doing this for more than two years (and much more). I wish Nokia was doing the same (or even 10% of it) to support our community - we would be then the strongest community there can be and they would only get profit from this.

That's all. Again: no big deal. Same old stuff.

EOT.

For once I agree with you! Totaly 😃

My-Symbian.com,

Sorry, I did not think it worth while to read through the entire thread. I will just say that the negative comments you received regardig the M$ visit were undeserved (IMHO). I have found your site very useful (particularly when I had a 9210 😊 ) so thanks for that and please do keep up the good work.

Incidently, being totally dedicated to and having sworn allegiance to Symbian, I would be more that happy to get rid of your XDA for you without being tempted by the "Dark Side" 😉

Also, Rafe: Why did't you attend this conference? That way, you too could have got an XDA etc. put all the goodies on eBay and finally got yourself a "proper" PDA.

Perhaps Symbian could adopt this as a new strategy, saving them having to give away their own goodies. Really, they do need to make more effort, rather than charging silly fees to attend their conferences.

Just my opinion,

Zuber
(Soon to be Palm OS device owner - probably)

It's strange how this topic is the most amusing and boring of them all at once 😊 I got my 9210 accidental and liked it so I started to support it but I will never claim Symbian to be the all powerfull.
I have tried a lot of systems from windows to linux to beos and back to windows. They all have pro's and contra's. If microsofts phone get's better then Symbian then so be it, at that point they probably deserve it. I think it's good that microsoft is trying to get some grip on the market, this way Symbian will have to double their efforts to give us the best phones 😊
I think the end user will always benifit from this.

Small example:
the BT audio on the 7650, if there were other smartphones out there which could compete with the 7650 and had BT audio then the 7650 would have had that feature 2. 😊

[quote="Zuber"]My-Symbian.com,
Also, Rafe: Why did't you attend this conference? That way, you too could have got an XDA etc. put all the goodies on eBay and finally got yourself a "proper" PDA.
[/quote]

I wasn't invited!

Rafe

Dazler:
I think it's good that microsoft is trying to get some grip on the market, this way Symbian will have to double their efforts to give us the best phones
I think the end user will always benifit from this.

Yap, Dazler is cool 8) .
You got the point.Thanks.
Tech is too serve user.
It is good to have multiple choice rather than one.
I just hope that the Mobile OS will be divided by Symbian,MS,Palm,Linuz & much much more.
As a user, They got more choice & better product through the competition.
As a developer(someone who keen on 1 & 0) will live in a wonderful world which filled with different type of tech/idea.
😃 😃 😃