Orange unimpressed with N-series

Hi,
I am on orange with an N80, I want to get out of the contract, Its been running 3 months & I am feed up with the phone & not impressed with the charges either, what do you think my chances are?

Cheers

Dan

creekybones wrote:Hi,
I am on orange with an N80, I want to get out of the contract, Its been running 3 months & I am feed up with the phone & not impressed with the charges either, what do you think my chances are?

Cheers

Dan

I've been wondering the same thing. However I think the answer will be along the lines of go buy a sim free handset. 😞

Aaaand the ping pong continues...

Oranges reply to my email:

Dear Russell

Thank you for your mail

I am sorry to hear that you have been experiencing difficulties in connecting your phone to your Satellite Navigation equipment, and in obtaining a software update for your handset.

I can confirm that any software update for your handset will be available directly from Nokia, as they have all the available updates for their handsets. Nokia can be contacted by calling 0906 754 7540, or alternatively you may visit their website at www.nokia.com.

As far as we are aware there is no reason why you should not be able to update the software on your phone, however we must advise that we are unable to support this, and all queries regarding this update should be directed to Nokia directly.

I trust that this information is of assistance and apologise for being unable to assist you further.

Kind regards

Jen
Orange Customer Services

And my reply back again:

Jen,

Thanks for replying. Unfortunately this is no solution as what you have suggested I should do has already been done and Nokia have confirmed that Orange have not chosen to release their version of the firmware for the phone. I was assured that if I owned a phone that was provided SIM free (so not from any provider) that an update would be possible as the generic Nokia firmware can be used.

Otherwise as I have a network branded phone the network must release a branded copy of the firmware to Nokia to be distributed to their customers via Nokia's online service or service centres. As Orange has chosen not to do this and is not updating past the V3 firmware (which has known issues meaning the product does not function as specified when sold) then the phone will have to remain at the V3 firmware level, unless a customer is willing to invalidate their warranty and have it flashed using the generic firmware from Nokia.

The bottom line is that the phone does not perform the functions as advertised due to it needing a firmware update, something which Orange will not be working alongside Nokia to provide and have decided to discontinue the sale of the phone. All well and good for those people who don't already own one, but you will now have 100s of customers out there with a V3 firmware N80 on their hands that is useless when it comes to anything Bluetooth related (ie. GPS) unless it is updated to V4, which will never be available to them from yourselves or Nokia.

At the end of the day I and your other customers bought the phones from yourselves not Nokia, Nokia has confirmed that the lack of available update is down to Orange and the issue cannot be resolved unless Orange co-operate and release the V4 firmware branded for their network.

So what is to be done? There is no other way to explain the situation apart from as I have above. I don't appreciate being bounced backwards and forwards between 2 companies who work together. In the end it is the customer who is losing out, who has bought something they cannot use as intended when sold to them and who will be unhappy and taking their business elsewhere.

I appreciate that as a customer services department you may not be privy to all of the facts and only provide standard responses to certain issues. But given the level of detail I have gone into in this and previous emails I would appreciate this situation being looked into and not just bounced back to me with a response basically saying its Nokias fault.

I look forward to your reply.

Regards

Russell Oakes

It's all getting a bit silly really

Keep up the good work roakes. :icon14:

Seems like there have been some interesting developments...

http://discussions.nokia.co.uk/discussions/board/message?board.id=swupdate&message.id=894

Read the whole thread 😉

S.

First time post here, but a long time viewer

Glad to read that Orange have finally approved the v4 firmware! I've been emailing Orange about this matter and the only answer i've ever received is as follows

"Thank you for your mail regarding firmware.

I can advise you that software updates are available on the Orange
website. If the software you are looking for is not available on Orange it
does not mean that it will not be available in the future.

Please be aware that Orange are always looking to improve the service
we provide however with software we can not guarantee that it will be
released as it may not be compatible with the Orange software on the
handset.

I trust this information is helpful to you."

Well, it isn't helpful and all subsequent emails have been ignored.

steve_perry wrote:Seems like there have been some interesting developments...

http://discussions.nokia.co.uk/discussions/board/message?board.id=swupdate&message.id=894

Read the whole thread 😉

S.

I was speaking to OCS today, on asking iof they had released V4 firmware teh lady could not confirm, she kept telling me that Nokia are responsible for releasing new software and that I can go to a NSC to get it updated. I asked if they would be happy to put a generic Nokia firmware on an orange branded phone and she said that they would as Nokia are relasing teh update, not Orange.

Doesn't matter to me as I did mine a while back but it may help someone get their NSC to do teh generic update

Just got this from orange which seems to contradict stories elsewhere about orange validating the V4 firmware...,

Thankyou for your mail,

The N80 was unfortunately discontinued to to an inherent issue with the bluetooth hardware, Nokia were unable to provide a sufficient response to our request for a resolution, and therefore we took the decision to withdraw the handset.

Due to the handset being discontinued, we will not be providing any further firmware updates, it is possible to flash the handset with the generic nokia firmware, but this would void any warranty you have on the handset.

Kind Regards
Ross
Email Administrator
Orange customer services

southglade2000 wrote:Just got this from orange which seems to contradict stories elsewhere about orange validating the V4 firmware...,

Thankyou for your mail,

The N80 was unfortunately discontinued to to an inherent issue with the bluetooth hardware, Nokia were unable to provide a sufficient response to our request for a resolution, and therefore we took the decision to withdraw the handset.

Due to the handset being discontinued, we will not be providing any further firmware updates, it is possible to flash the handset with the generic nokia firmware, but this would void any warranty you have on the handset.

Kind Regards
Ross
Email Administrator
Orange customer services

This is great news, Orange have now admitted that there is a fault with the handset that stops some aspects of the handset working as it should do, many people use bluetooth, not just for navigation, but also for handsfree (this could also be a safty issue as you cant use the phone with hands free while you are driving because of the bluetooth faults).

Also we know that Nokia have actually fixed the bluetooth issue so its actually the orange variant software that is at fault, and for a company like orange to say its ok to flash with Nokia generic software, but it will void the warrantee and is at your own risk is highly irresponsible.

I would now demand a full refund, of another phone of my choice or I would take it further in the small claims court.

A consumer has a right to purchase a product and that product should be fit for the purpose that it was purchased for...in the orange and N80 case it clearly is not....

You have the ammunition guys...now it need one of you to use it, I cant because I dont have an orange N80.

Cash wrote:

I would now demand a full refund, of another phone of my choice or I would take it further in the small claims court.

A consumer has a right to purchase a product and that product should be fit for the purpose that it was purchased for...in the orange and N80 case it clearly is not....

Seeing as they've admitted their phone is faulty, and that I don't want to void
my warranty, I've politely asked what phone they're going to offer me instead.....

southglade2000 wrote:Seeing as they've admitted their phone is faulty, and that I don't want to void
my warranty, I've politely asked what phone they're going to offer me instead.....

Cool...you just have to keep at it though because they will try fob you off with all the tricks in the book, when I took pixmania to court (they are a reseller like orange), because of all the inherant (and provable) faults with my sendo x, they kept fobbing me off saying the phone wasnt uner war4rantee, or the warrantee was due to expire in a couple of days so they wouldnt honour it, or it was my fault because I must have dropped the phone and thats why it wasnt working...in the end the court summons from the county court made them pay up in full plus all court costs, interest and other costs 😊...I got about �450 back from them, although it did take about 4 or 5 months, but a good and enjoyable and informative experience.

google "online small claims court uk" and you will find the site where yopu can make the claim from the comfort of your armchair if it goes that far 😊

Dead easy and costs about 50 quid to claim (which you claim back as costs in the summons)

creekybones wrote:Hi,
I am on orange with an N80, I want to get out of the contract, Its been running 3 months & I am feed up with the phone & not impressed with the charges either, what do you think my chances are?

Cheers

Dan

Exactley the same thing here mate. I bought my way out after 3 months of crap service. Only way to go. I now have a three contract and a very very nice k800i. Pack included all data mms video calls etc etc �5 downloads a month it has everything i was looking for before. Just a pity it cost me an arm and a leg but so far the service with Three has been worth everypenny

Regards
Scoop

southglade2000 wrote:
The N80 was unfortunately discontinued to to an inherent issue with the bluetooth hardware,

Just when did they decide to discontinue it?

They were still selling them on Saturday, I know because that is when I got one. I suppose I could go in and argue that giving that they had publicly announced it was discontinued they knowingly sold me a faulty product. I also suppose discontinued actually means once we have got rid of all our stock. I feel some email correspondence with Orange coming on.

i've been firing off emails all this week to our friends at Orange, but they just keep fobbing me off 😡 . there last suggestion was to ring their tech people, but at 20p per minute (from a landline), i'm giving it a miss. just gonna keep sending emails, they'll soon get fed up of me!! 😃

old_bloke wrote:i've been firing off emails all this week to our friends at Orange, but they just keep fobbing me off 😡 . there last suggestion was to ring their tech people, but at 20p per minute (from a landline), i'm giving it a miss. just gonna keep sending emails, they'll soon get fed up of me!! 😃

All you got to do is send one email to them saying that you are not happy with the situation having been sold a poduct with an inherant fault and orange are unwilling or unable to help and if you dont get some sort of satisfactory response from orange for a solution within 7 days then you will have no opportunity other than to take the matter further and make a claim in the small claims court for a refund so that you can go and buy a generic N80 where the fault has been fixed with a generic firmware update.

TRUST ME you will get the outcome that you want, and its really easy to claim online and only costs about £50 which you claim back,......I have done it several times with companies like orange and they always cave in because the last thing they want is a county court judgement against them

If anybody wants advice on how to make a claim PM me and I will be very happy to help because I hate when Big companies take advantage of us consumers because some of us dont know our consumer rights...

Just in case anyone is still interested in this sorry saga (i doubt it!!), i've just fired this off to OCS:

Sue

May i again thank you for your speedy reply, but it doesn't assist with my problem

I was merely asking for a response to the problems i highlighted regarding my Nokia N80, and by asking me to ring your Tech people, at a cost of 30p per minute from my landline, is not a suitable reply, especially as my phone is less than 2 months old and therefore still under warranty.

with regard to issue of bluetooth problems beign experienced, a friend of mine (who has also been emailing you) received the following reply:

"The N80 was unfortunately discontinued due to an inherent issue with the bluetooth hardware, Nokia were unable to provide a sufficient response to our request for a resolution, and therefore we took the decision to withdraw the handset.

Due to the handset being discontinued, we will not be providing any further firmware updates, it is possible to flash the handset with the generic nokia firmware, but this would void any warranty you have on the handset."

So what we are both left with, is a phone with which you have admitted there is an 'inherent issue', i.e does not work as it was supposed to do.

I will again ask you the question as to what you are prepared to do to rectify this situation. You state that the Nokia Service Centres can flash the memory with the generic software, but this will void the warranty. This is not a satisfactory solution. I do not want to be in the position of having a �400 phone, less than 2 months old, which has no warranty.

The phone was purchased from Orange and my contract is with Orange, therefore my problems lie solely at the feet of Orange. You have sold me a phone which basically does not work. Tha Sale of Goods Act 1979 (as amended) states that goods purchased should be 'Of satisfactory quality', 'Fit for the purpose' and 'As described'. The Nokia N80 clearly is not, especially when you take into account that it is one of the most expensive mobiles on the market!

If you cannot repair my phone to a satisfactory state, i would like to enquire as to what form of compensation you will be offering (as i am legally allowed to request under the Sale of Goods Act)? Will you offer me a replacement phone, refund the cost of purchasing a generic N80, or allow me to take my N80 to a Nokia Service Centre, let them carry out the firmware upgrade but honour the warranty for the remaining 10 months?

I look forward to a satisfactory response.

I'm not holding my breath!!

Nice letter old bloke, keep with it, I am 100 % sure that you will get one of the end results that you mentioned, and I guess the cheapest way for orange will be to honour the warrantee with the nokia generic firmware.

Orange are in the wrong here in everyway, especially by trying to pass the buck to Nokia, as you are the customer of orange they have a responsibility to make sure your phone works as advertised and designed, if it doesnt then they have actually broken their part of the contract with you and I would guess that you then have the right to terminate your contract with them withough any further expence to you.

Keep us posted, I love the way these stories unfold 😊

Here is what I sent off to Orange today:

"Last Saturday I signed an 18 month pay monthly contract with Orange and as part of the deal I selected a Nokia N80 phone.

Having signed the contract I have to say that I am disappointed with this phone. The battery life is poor and I am having trouble using a Bluetooth connection. Some research on the Internet has shown this to be a well known problem with the phone; fortunately the bluetooth problem is one that can be resolved by upgrading the phone firmware to the latest version. I have tried using the Nokia software update service to obtain the latest firmware but get a message saying none is available.

Further research on the internet reveals that Orange do not, and apparently have no intention, of supporting the latest firmware from Nokia or any future upgrades. In addition it would seem that Orange discontinued the N80 from their product range sometime before last Saturday.

When I signed my contract I was not advised that the a) the N80 had been discontinued b) that future firmware updates from Nokia would not be supported by Orange c) that there were problems with Bluetooth on this phone. I was informed that because of the type of contract I had signed I would not have the normal period of 14 days within which I could change the phone or my contract.

I now have a phone that I cannot upgrade the firmware on and does not have a key part of the functionality that I need, I am less than a week into an 18 month contract and have the distinct feeling I have been done over by Orange who have intentionally and knowingly provided me with a defective product.

I think this is, at best, a shabby way to treat a new customer (or indeed any customer) who is signing an 18 month contract. At worst one might describe Orange as simply deceitful.

Would you care to comment on the above and suggest how the matter might be resolved to my satisfaction.

Regards"

Old Bloke, keep us posted if you get a result as I think the precedent would be good and one more of use could use.

"Dear Nick,

At the present time, we are only replacing handsets which demonstrate the particular fault for which we withdrew the handset.
the handset is still considered fit for purpose, and therefore we cannot offer you a replacement at this time.

Kind regards

Email Administrator
Orange customer services"

Hmmf. We'll see.

southglade2000 wrote:"Dear Nick,

At the present time, we are only replacing handsets which demonstrate the particular fault for which we withdrew the handset.
the handset is still considered fit for purpose, and therefore we cannot offer you a replacement at this time.

Kind regards

Email Administrator
Orange customer services"

Hmmf. We'll see.

This is Bullsh*t...if you cannot use the bluetooth because there is a fault .. and from what I have read its not a selective fauilt but a fault with all handsets then the phone is not fit for purpose.

As usual they are just trying to scare you off with the usual bull...in your next email tell them that you are not happy with their service and responsibilities to their customers, or happy with the response that you have recieved and you will now be pursuing a resolution to the situation in the small claims court if you dont get satisfaction from them.

Again they will try and fob you off...they wont reslove anything untill the last minute where the court will actually make a judgement against them.

These are the factcs

1, N80 with V3 firmware has a well documented bluetooth fault.

2, because of this you cannot use some of the features that a smartphone is designed for i.e. GPS navigation, not to mention handsfree which is a standard on most phones these days.

3, Orange have withdrawn the phone because of this fault, this has been admitted by orange in another post here,

4, you are protected as a consumer when you purchase a product so that you are 100% sure that you are buting a product that works as designed and it fit for the purpose it was bought and designed for.

5, Orange have acknowledged that they will not be supporting V4 formware to rectify this problem, but suggest that you use nokia service centers to upgrade your firmware to fix the bluetooth, but this will as admitted by orange void the warrantee on a very expensive product

Taking all of the above into consideration, in a court of law, Orange wouldnt have a leg to stand on.

Keep up the good work guys and "stick it to the man"

Cash wrote:This is Bullsh*t...if you cannot use the bluetooth because there is a fault .. and from what I have read its not a selective fauilt but a fault with all handsets then the phone is not fit for purpose.

As usual they are just trying to scare you off with the usual bull...in your next email tell them that you are not happy with their service and responsibilities to their customers, or happy with the response that you have recieved and you will now be pursuing a resolution to the situation in the small claims court if you dont get satisfaction from them.

Again they will try and fob you off...they wont reslove anything untill the last minute where the court will actually make a judgement against them.

These are the factcs

1, N80 with V3 firmware has a well documented bluetooth fault.

2, because of this you cannot use some of the features that a smartphone is designed for i.e. GPS navigation, not to mention handsfree which is a standard on most phones these days.

3, Orange have withdrawn the phone because of this fault, this has been admitted by orange in another post here,

4, you are protected as a consumer when you purchase a product so that you are 100% sure that you are buting a product that works as designed and it fit for the purpose it was bought and designed for.

5, Orange have acknowledged that they will not be supporting V4 formware to rectify this problem, but suggest that you use nokia service centers to upgrade your firmware to fix the bluetooth, but this will as admitted by orange void the warrantee on a very expensive product

Taking all of the above into consideration, in a court of law, Orange wouldnt have a leg to stand on.

Keep up the good work guys and "stick it to the man"

Stop acting like a screwpot. If you live in the UK you know very well Orange's record on high end phones and in general their limited phone selection.

fdxd wrote:Stop acting like a screwpot. If you live in the UK you know very well Orange's record on high end phones and in general their limited phone selection.

Whats your problem fdxd ???????

If I can help anybody with a problem because I have had experince in someting before then I will ....

Maybe spending alot of money on a phone that doesnt do what you expect is not a problem for you, but it is for alot of other people.

Whether orange have a good record or bad record in high end phones is irrelevant....consumers have rights and the problem is there are not enough consumers standing up for themselves and using those rights to protect themselves,

THATS WHY COMPANIES LIKE ORANGE TREAT THEIR CUSTOMERS THE WAY THEY DO.

Unless you have something constructive to say that will help or inform people then I suggest you dont contribute to this post anymore.

I have taken many companies to court because of similar situationl like this because its the only way that the situation is resolved, and I have recovered over £3500 that I would have lost otherwise...if that makes me a screpot, then so be it 😊..but I am a happy screwpot with money in my pocket

You can reply back to me if you want, but this will be the last response I will make to you because I dont like to see threads degenerating into slanging matches, if i did then I would be still making postst on the Nokia.co.uk forum.

Tell orange that the phone keeps switching off on its own. Thats the trigger for the replacement.
Email me if you need a hand.

well, it's taken 2 days, but here's my orange reply

"Thank you for your mail concerning your Nokia N80 phone.

I am sorry to learn of the situation you have outlined in your mail.
Please accept my apologies for any inconvenience caused.

Unfortunately we are unable to investigate and answer any account
specific query by email for reasons of confidentiality.

I would like to advise that Orange have a recognised escalation
process. You are first required to call Customer Services. If you are not
satisfied with the assistance or response of the Customer Service
Representative you can ask to speak to a Senior Coaching Advisor. If you are
still unhappy you can then request to speak to a Line Manager.

Please call our Customer Services on 150 from a pay monthly Orange
phone, or 07973-100150 from a landline. Our Helpdesk is open 24 hours a
day, 7 days a week and any of our representatives will be pleased to
assist you.

Thank you for taking the time to write to us with your views on the
service we provide. It is through feedback such as yours that we are able
to assess the effectiveness of our service.

Once again, please accept my apologies for any inconvenience caused.

Kind regards

George
Orange Customer Services"

how in the name of **** is my query 'account specific'???? and how would admitting to me that there is a problem cause problems of 'confidentiality'??

looks like i'm gonna have to bite the bullet and give em a ring😡

old_bloke wrote:

how in the name of **** is my query 'account specific'???? and how would admitting to me that there is a problem cause problems of 'confidentiality'??

looks like i'm gonna have to bite the bullet and give em a ring😡

2 things strike me about the reply, firstly they say no responses by email, I think this may be because they dont want any wqritten proof down against them, and secondly I have noticed from many emails received from orange that they never put their surname which makes it very hard to track the persdon you speak to, I have noticed this with several companies that they are unwilling to give out their surnames, it happened with easycar once when I was trying to sort out some issues with their service...No matter how many times I asked, the girl would refuse to give me her surname.

All Orange staff have a five digit number that can be used to track them. Ask for it.

Ask for them to contact you by email to keep you updated. This ensures that you get their surname as all OCS email addys are [email][email protected][/email] 😊

I have the details of one of the supervisors, but i'd rather not give it out until she has sorted out my problems. Once I'm done, I'll post her name and email as a reference. In anycase I am trying to set a precedent 😊

Dear Nick

Thank you for your mail regarding your phone.

I was sorry to learn that you are unhappy with the handset and I apologise for the inconvenience caused.

As previously stated we are unable to offer you a replacement handset at this time.

Orange are responsible for the performance of the network. The manufacturer are responsible for the performance of the phone.

I am sorry if this information is disappointing for you.

If you require further information please call the help desk on 07973 100 150 from a landline, or 150 from your Orange phone where a representative will be pleased to assist. Our operators are available 24 hours a day 7 days a week.

Please be advised that the answers to many common queries can be found in the Frequently Asked Questions section in the Help and Support option on the Home page of our website, www.orange.co.uk.

I trust the above information is of assistance.

Kind regards

Tracy
Orange Customer Services

---

This is beginning to become annoying. 😉

---

Tracy,

1. I purchased the handset off Orange.
2. Nokia have released an update for the phone to address many of the problems.
3. Orange will not allow me to install these updates without invalidating my warranty.

How can you say any of the above falls into the responsibility of Nokia?

This is my 1st contract with orange and is looking likely to be the last if this is the level
of customer service.

Please can accept your responsibilities in supplying a handset, which although subsidised, I did
pay cash for over and above my monthly contract.

And if you can't reply with anything other than a brush off then please pass to your supervisor.

Nick.

southglade2000 wrote:Dear Nick

Orange are responsible for the performance of the network. The manufacturer are responsible for the performance of the phone.

This is complete sh*t, when I had problems with my sendo x, I took pixmania to court to recover the money not the manufacturer, and pixmania had to pay in full + all the court costs

When you buy a product you are making a legal agreement with the seller of that product, Nokia are not the seller in this case, orange are...

I cant beleive that orange management can or should allow their staff to basically tell lies and think that they can get away with it.

i am also having similar problems.

been emailing orange... same sort of response as everyone else.

I use the phone for the net, it is always resetting itself running out of memory or failing to see the memory card... or not dialing numbers correctly... the list goes on.

i work for a repair centre in big company who deal through resellers etc.. we dont deal direct with end users as they dont buy the product from us, its the same here. Orange is at fault!