Orange unimpressed with N-series

Just called Orange and they said it has been discontinued but not recalled.

I wouldn't mind an M3100 so any way I can force them to admit the N80 is a bit crap and get an exchange?

Same here, they said that there was nothing wrong with the phone, it was just being replaced by a different model.

So, I have a phone with flaky firmware that isn't going to be updated.

Did the guy at orange offer you the M3100 as you were due for an upgrade or was it as a replacement for the N80?

The 3100 was offered to me for GB50 - although I could have probably knocked that down by claiming I was going to move networks.

I've had a windows phone (an M500) and it was God awful. Even the reviews of the 3100 on the net include phrases like "I'm having to poke the thing in the bum [reset it] three times a day". Is that normal???? Since when did phones get this bad? At least with the N80 I know exactly how it's bad - and can work around it.

I really, really miss the old PSION days - rock solid PDAs that never, ever crashed. Or even the old Palm days - rock solid dumb-as-a-brick PDAs that were so simple they couldn't crash.

I don't know -- maybe it's just about managing expectations. I got an N80 knowing exactly what I was letting myself in for. Here's a brand new phone with more technology crammed into it than any previous phone, a brand new OS and a brand new web browser. Of course there will be problems and it will be buggy, I thought, but it does more of what I want than any other device and I can put up with that and wait for the inevitable firmware upgrades.

Sure enough, version 4 is pretty much rock solid. I think it rebooted once on me while doing satnav.

But what happens in a lot of cases is this: people believe all the marketing; you can do this, you can do that; they expect it (quite rightly) to work perfectly, and when it doesn't they start making demands and asking for replacements and causing a whole load of trouble for the operators.

I don't know whether people need to learn that brand new technology has limitations, or whether marketers need to be more honest about it. I don't see either happening in a hurry.

Over the air upgrades will help so that people can have their firmware updated without even noticing.

Operators should be careful about dropping devices. The N80 was the first device I was prepared to switch operators for.

I agree totally, I was quite happy to wait for the firmware bugs to be ironed out.

But now orange have dropped the phone they won't upgrade their firmware and if I take the phone to my nokia centre they'll only put the latest orange firmware on, which is the one I have.

I agree - I love my N80 - I'm writing this using it right now. However with on help from orange! I had to download updates etc. My concern is that we are very much the minority and so most people will have only experienced the early 3.14 software.

Couple that with the 990 launch and you have to wonder what went wrong.

slartibartfast

Ah the pains of being an early adopter.

I believe the biggest issue with the last N series launch was the combination of new device + new operating system.

I had similar problems with my WM5 K-Jam that I bought a week or so after they came out - buggy, prone to restarts and no third party software was available. 6 months down the line I had a stable device that I was happy with, but only after a firmware upgrade and some intense research on a specialist forum. Hmmmm wait that sounds familiar :tongue:

Of course by then I was bored with the poor build quality of the device and the overall size, so I sold it on eBay for a decent amount of cash and bought an N80 lol.

I'm looking forward to the next set of N-Series devices with a reasonable amount of confidence. The third party software situation is improving daily and the operating system is maturing nicely. Now if someone at Nokia will make the rumoured 10GB N81 happen I'm in like Flynn 🙄

roakes wrote:Just called Orange and they said it has been discontinued but not recalled.

I wouldn't mind an M3100 so any way I can force them to admit the N80 is a bit crap and get an exchange?

If orange have now stopped selling a current model phone because they say that the software is faulty, or too buggy or unsuitable then I think you have a very strong case to be able to return your phone, they have ultimately sold you, by their own admission by discontinuing a current phone because of software flaws, a product that is not fit or sutable for the job it was designed for.

The problem is getting orange to admit the real reason why they have discontiniued the phone, if you phone to orange about this I suggest recording the calls..I think there is an app that will allow you to do this.

If you want to pursue this I would suggest talking to trading standards or the office of fair trading, they are always happy to help..

A good friend of mine says the same thing as he works for Vodafone, they are not selling for much longer in stores due to the same issues. But to me it actually displays the ignorance of the staff and support guys. They are not interested in getting you up to date software nor actually fixing any issues once they have sold you the phone contract. The same could happen with any phone you buy from them, they could pull the plug and leave you feeling a little annoyed once your signed up for 12/18 months.

I have had no real issues with my phone and i use it a lot with all types of software running on it, tomtom sat nav, nokia contacts software working along side the bluetooth nokia 610 car kit etc. Ive had this running on both v3 & v4 of the firmware and couldnt be more happy. If you are to ask me its the best phone I have ever owned you just have to look after it. :icon14:

I cant see what all the fuss is about, I am more than happy with my N80..apart from battery life and camera, but I can live with that.

Maybe the problem is with the orange designed firmware.

That's what I wonder.

My sim-free N80 seems pretty good. Battery life is what I expected for a phone crammed with so many features and technology, and especially 3G and WiFi. The Internet browser is buggy but then you can just download Opera which is much better. It's pretty stable otherwise and that's on the pre-V4 firmware, though menus are a little slow. Has it's quirks but I still prefer it to non-Nokia models.

The other possibility is the support guys are just reflecting opinion based on calls they get moaning about it (which may be unrepresentitive) and the real reason Orange are discontinuing it is because of the new Internet Edition of the N80. Which as far as I can tell is little more than a firmware/software update anyway just repackaged.

If there really is something wrong with it maybe we can get the operator and/or (in my case) Nokia to replace it with the Internet Edition.

deadkenny wrote:That's what I wonder.

My sim-free N80 seems pretty good. Battery life is what I expected for a phone crammed with so many features and technology, and especially 3G and WiFi. The Internet browser is buggy but then you can just download Opera which is much better. It's pretty stable otherwise and that's on the pre-V4 firmware, though menus are a little slow. Has it's quirks but I still prefer it to non-Nokia models.

The other possibility is the support guys are just reflecting opinion based on calls they get moaning about it (which may be unrepresentitive) and the real reason Orange are discontinuing it is because of the new Internet Edition of the N80. Which as far as I can tell is little more than a firmware/software update anyway just repackaged.

If there really is something wrong with it maybe we can get the operator and/or (in my case) Nokia to replace it with the Internet Edition.

You will be lucky to get nokia to admit anything is wrong with their products...well I am sticking with mine untill the N95 comes out..I hope Nokia will learn a few lessons from the N80..ie..better battery, better flash for camera especially as the N95 is supposed to have a 5 mega pix camera, easier ota firmware upgrades and would be nice to get some sort of notifications from Nokia when there is a firmware upgrade, I think that as others have mentioned the problems are with the operator staff not knowing the phone, not selling the phone to the people who will use and understand the phone, and the support staff not being trained correctly with the right info and knowledge to sort out problems.

goona wrote:A good friend of mine says the same thing as he works for Vodafone, they are not selling for much longer in stores due to the same issues. But to me it actually displays the ignorance of the staff and support guys. They are not interested in getting you up to date software nor actually fixing any issues once they have sold you the phone contract.

This is quite true. Most software issues are simply due to lack of user knowledge not faults. The Operators are aware of this. But their Customer Services arent. Over 80% of returned smarpthones are not faulty in any way(from the operators). Customer Services dont even know Nseries are smartphones run on an OS etc. Tell them the phone takes 30 seconds to startup they think its faulty, lol.

@Cash
Unfortunately from the previews I've seen on the N95 the flash is exactly the same as on our N80. And the screen "downgrade" is certainly a no-no for me.
Regds

Winfield wrote:@Cash
Unfortunately from the previews I've seen on the N95 the flash is exactly the same as on our N80. And the screen "downgrade" is certainly a no-no for me.
Regds

Damn, yet again a phone that promises so much, but is let down by some seemingly minor, but very important things..I mean whats the point of a 5mpix cam if you cant use it 70% of the time because the light conditions dont allow good photographs because the flash is sh*t....

When will Nokia wake up

Anyway this isnt the place to rant about a phone that isn't in production yet..will wait and see if nokia do something about it..

I can imagine that alot of N80's were returned because I saw adverts on the TV selling the N80 as a photo phone with 3mpix cam, and of course its unusable except in bright daylight..Nokia need to take note..

Got this email from Orange today:

Dear Russell

Thank you for your mail regarding the Nokia N80.

I can confirm that Orange have withdrawn the Nokia N80 and have been advised that it's replacement is the Nokia N73.

For further advice and information, please call our Customer Services on 150 from a pay monthly Orange phone, or 07973-100150 from a landline. Our Helpdesk is open 24 hours a day, 7 days a week and any of our representatives will be pleased to assist you.

So should I be able to call up and ask for an exchange?

roakes wrote:Got this email from Orange today:

Dear Russell

Thank you for your mail regarding the Nokia N80.

I can confirm that Orange have withdrawn the Nokia N80 and have been advised that it's replacement is the Nokia N73.

For further advice and information, please call our Customer Services on 150 from a pay monthly Orange phone, or 07973-100150 from a landline. Our Helpdesk is open 24 hours a day, 7 days a week and any of our representatives will be pleased to assist you.

So should I be able to call up and ask for an exchange?

You need to find out why they have discontinued it, and if they admit that its because of a fault with the phone or the software then they should exchange it, but the hard part is to get them to admit why they discontinued it...or the real reason why they discontinued it, they wont just exchange because they decided to discontinue it for no reason...

Considering there will never be an Orange branded firmware update to V4 for it, do you think this would be grounds enough to demand an exchange due to the fact that it has a known bluetooth issue with GPS receivers that Nokia has rectified but if Orange wont release the latest firmware then it means I have an admittedly (by Nokia) faulty product?

Ok just spoke to someone at Orange. I told them I had Tomtom and it wasnt working due to the bluetooth issues in V3 and that I should get the firmware upgraded to V4. They basically said that Orange has nothing to do with firmware for phones and that I have to get it upgraded at a Nokia service centre. Now of course that wont work as they wont have the V4 Orange firmware will they?

(ps. all of this is just for fun and interest really, I upgraded mine myself to generic V4 a while back)

roakes wrote:Considering there will never be an Orange branded firmware update to V4 for it, do you think this would be grounds enough to demand an exchange due to the fact that it has a known bluetooth issue with GPS receivers that Nokia has rectified but if Orange wont release the latest firmware then it means I have an admittedly (by Nokia) faulty product?

Best thing I ever did was take my handset to an authorised NSC (small independent) and get my N80 handset flashed with generic V4.xxx firmware, for free I might add. My phone now works and all my previous problems have gone away only don't tell Nokia or they would close down the friendly helpful NSC that helped me out and probably blackball me too 🙄 and don't tell Orange as they will just see it as an excuse to walk away from any of their support or warranty responsibilities should anything happen to my handset.

I really can't understand why Nokia and Orange take this stance with regard variant and generic firmware versions for the same piece of hardware.

Luckily my N80 came to me as a free upgrade so I wasn't too hung up about losing all support, it didn't cost me a penny but if I had paid the �400 asking price for this phone I would be stuck with buggy V3 firmware and no way of legitimately solving the situation and keeping warranties intact.

Very poor show.

S.

roakes wrote:Considering there will never be an Orange branded firmware update to V4 for it, do you think this would be grounds enough to demand an exchange due to the fact that it has a known bluetooth issue with GPS receivers that Nokia has rectified but if Orange wont release the latest firmware then it means I have an admittedly (by Nokia) faulty product?

😊..having fun with big companies is great 😊..

I would think that this is perfect grounds to return your phone because it is not working as it should 😊...I would love to be in this situation 😊..I love taking big companies to court 😊..

p.s. ,, I always win..you just have to have the balls to do it 😊..

This email is on its way to Orange:

Hi,

I currently have a Nokia N80 from yourselves which I have had no end of troubles with since upgrading to it. Now having done some digging online I have discovered that it is down to the firmware currently installed in my phone. My main problem is that I am unable to use any GPS Satnav software due to there being a problem with Bluetooth on the N80 in that it will keep losing connection with the Bluetooth GPS receiver. It has been proven that updating the N80 to the latest V4.0623.0.41 firmware will cure this issue.

Now, this is all well and good IF the firmware update was actually available for Orange branded phones. Although Nokia does offer Firmware updates online via their website they DO NOT offer it for Orange branded N80s, having contacted Nokia they say that when a firmware is released that the networks customise the firmware for release to their customers and Orange have chosen not to do this as they have now discontinued sale of them (is this true?). I asked if my phone could be updated with a generic none branded firmware and they said that although it is technically possible unfortunately no service centre is authorised to do so.

When I contacted Orange customer services regarding this issue they told me that Orange has nothing to do with firmware updates for phones and that any branding is installed via software not integrated into the firmware (completely contradicting Nokia). So who is correct?

Which leaves me in a position with no options. Nokia will not update the firmware as they have no Orange branded version and Orange denies all knowledge of any such issue and says to take it up with Nokia?

So I have a phone which is faulty as admitted by Nokia by the release of the new firmware addressing the issue, but cannot update the phone due to the network it's on, and a network who refuses to offer any support for fixing the problem with the phone they provided.

So what do I do?

I look forward to your response in hope of some resolution.

Regards

Russell Oakes

roakes wrote:This email is on its way to Orange:

Hi,

I currently have a Nokia N80 from yourselves which I have had no end of troubles with since upgrading to it. Now having done some digging online I have discovered that it is down to the firmware currently installed in my phone. My main problem is that I am unable to use any GPS Satnav software due to there being a problem with Bluetooth on the N80 in that it will keep losing connection with the Bluetooth GPS receiver. It has been proven that updating the N80 to the latest V4.0623.0.41 firmware will cure this issue.

Now, this is all well and good IF the firmware update was actually available for Orange branded phones. Although Nokia does offer Firmware updates online via their website they DO NOT offer it for Orange branded N80s, having contacted Nokia they say that when a firmware is released that the networks customise the firmware for release to their customers and Orange have chosen not to do this as they have now discontinued sale of them (is this true?). I asked if my phone could be updated with a generic none branded firmware and they said that although it is technically possible unfortunately no service centre is authorised to do so.

When I contacted Orange customer services regarding this issue they told me that Orange has nothing to do with firmware updates for phones and that any branding is installed via software not integrated into the firmware (completely contradicting Nokia). So who is correct?

Which leaves me in a position with no options. Nokia will not update the firmware as they have no Orange branded version and Orange denies all knowledge of any such issue and says to take it up with Nokia?

So I have a phone which is faulty as admitted by Nokia by the release of the new firmware addressing the issue, but cannot update the phone due to the network it's on, and a network who refuses to offer any support for fixing the problem with the phone they provided.

So what do I do?

I look forward to your response in hope of some resolution.

Regards

Russell Oakes

He he ...will be interesting to see the responce ... if you get one 😊..

I have to admit that the N80 was starting to pee me off quite a bit due to buggy firmware, however after upgrading to v4 (just use phoenix???) it's now 1000x more stable and I love it again.

For me the main pro is the excellent screen, couple that with a decent sized memory card and for music and video you're laughing.

I will keeping my N80 for some time yet.

Just got this from Orange CS.

>Thank you for your mail.
>
>I am sorry to hear that this handset is now being discontinued, although this >happens to all handsets eventually.
>
>However, with regard to the software update, if Nokia are unable to assist you, >I am not sure that I have any further advice for you.
>
>I have referred this matter through to our Technical Manager, however, there is >no guarantee of any successful outcome of this referral.
>
>Please accept my apologies for any inconvenience.
>
>Kind regards

As helpful as I expected, although hopefully the Technial Manager will get back to me.....

I have the same issues with Telstra, the biggest and baddest monopoly (in some ways) Telco in Australia. They do not have a V4 FM. Maybe we in Oz should get together and demand Telstra fix the problem too.

ikdohttp://www.allaboutsymbian.com/forum/images/icons/icon9.gif

southglade2000 wrote:>I am sorry to hear that this handset is now being discontinued, although this >happens to all handsets eventually.

Orange claim the N73 is their flagship handset replacing the N80 (see here) but from what I can see the N73 is inferior in many ways (especially lacking WiFi). I guess it will sell better because it's got more of a proper camera in it (Zeiss lens, autofocus, etc), but to be honest I didn't buy a WiFi internet rich smartphone because of it's camera abilities! I did buy it for the potential for 3G use though and unfortunately Orange deny me 3G because I didn't buy Orange branded :frown:.

I note from the article I linked to here that Vodaphone say they're not withdrawing the N80 for fault reasons.

[QUOTE=deadkenny

I note from the article I linked to here that Vodaphone say they're not withdrawing the N80 for fault reasons.[/QUOTE]

I thin we al know that the N80 has some faults, but I wouldn't call them major faults that intefere with the daily running of the product, the only problems I have had really are with the actuall design flaws or "selective designs" of the phone.

I can see however that many people are buying the phone because of phone companies advertising the N80 in the wrong way... I have seen it advertised by carphone warehouse as a photo camera on channel 4, they didnt mention it was a smartphone, just a 3 mega pix camera, and if I had bought it because of advertisments like this then I would be straight back in the shop asking for my money back.

It has been said before here that the network operators are not training their retail or support staff coffectly in either what the phone is intended for, or if there are problems how to remedy the problems with a satisfactory outcome.

The fact that the phone is being withdrawn by operators is because of their own ignorance in the way that the phone works or for the market that the phone is intended for.., and unless the end user is a little tech savy with a phone like the N80, then I can see that many people would be unhappy with spending alot of money on something that is probably not suitable for them, or even because they dont know about software upgrades or how to get them done.

I am pretty sure that if a company is withdrawing a product that is still in production, has great reviews (albeit with a few minor problems) and is technically superior to anything else on the market, then its not because the phone is OK...its because the phone is too problematic for them to sell...I know from a friend of mine who works high up in the press depeartment of Vodaphone that many N80's have been returned because they are not suitable for the end user, and because of battery life, shitty camera and software that doesnt work correctly...some of these things are faults with the phone that can be fixed, some cant be fixed but are design errors...and some are just stupid designs (like the flash).

Ultimately, if Voda or orange, or any other network stops selling the N80, and they dont or are unwilling to continue to upgrade the software to fix major faults in the phone like the bluetooth issue (which has been confirmed is a fault with the phone by Nokia) then I would think you have a case for a refund or an exchange for a different product.

It needs one person to get a result and then everybody who has problems can follow suit...

Hopefully Roakes will get a result....

I would personally get in touch with trading standards, oftel and the office of fair trading to find out what my situation would be in demanding my money back.

Dont forget, if anybody in the UK has been sold something that is unfit for the purpose that it was intended for because of a fault (i would use the bluetooth issue in orange and voda cases), then you are legally entitled to get your money back...end of story. The networks will try to fob you off...but just follow up with a county court summons that will cost you about £50 (you can claim this back in the summons), and this can all be done online in about 15 minutes. Just check your fact first as mentioned with the 3 organisations above.

But I dont have issues with the phone because I bought generic, and I now live outside the UK so its too much hassle for me to follow up something like this.

Damn thats a long post ... sorry guys...just got nothing to do today and felt like blabbing 😊..

Cash wrote:I thin we al know that the N80 has some faults, but I wouldn't call them major faults that intefere with the daily running of the product, the only problems I have had really are with the actuall design flaws or "selective designs" of the phone....

Ahh, but there in lies the rub, if you have an Orange branded N80 then you will be running V3 firmware and that does have major faults... poor memory management causing frequent random reboots or 'out of memory' errors, poor bluetooth performance and major inability to use large size memory cards (1 & 2GB) to name but three glaring issues.

The policy of Orange and Nokia combine to effectively prevent any Orange N80 user from upgrading to V4 firmware which I agree with you doesn't have any major faults or bugs having had all the major doozies fixed from V3 -> V4.

Again, I bit the bullet a got a generic V4 upgrade flashed onto my Orange f/w phone which was performed at a helpful Nokia Service Centre so I'm not that inclined to cause a stink, I just enjoy using my N80 but I do feel for those stuck with a shite handset and no legal way of remedying the situation because of the combined tactics of Orange & Nokia.

S.