SymbianSigned Pulls Plug

agree fully with you, I am truly disappointed just received my new N9 8GB on Friday...& I can't get any unsigned apps for it....can anybody assist us in any way...please...

Just glad I have certificates for my entire family now...

Also, it doesn't matter when the certs expire, you can change the date on your phone temporarily to install

I'm in the same boat now. Got my N95 last week and now can't put nokmote or flipsilent on it 😞

I guess a few people wont be buying Nokia anymore, myself included.

Great, now they'll force all people to install cracked firmwares or move to Windows Mobile since the Symbian software market simply sucks w/o those great home brew apps. I don't use and don't want to use none of the commercial crap they have. The best apps are the unsigned ones (emTube, Nokmote, RotateMe, etc, etc). Oh well - the Sony Ericsson X1 looks pretty pimp. Was considering waiting for the N96 but a) no 3d b) crappy battery and now c) no unsigned software... so thanks but no thanks.

Seriously, why the hell are they locking us from installing whatever we want. I paid $700 for this damn phone - no contracts, no B.S. I should be allowed to install whatever I want on it and not be constrained by the piece of crap commercial software only. This is really pissing me off.

Cue S60 hackers to disable this anus of a feature.

Its wrong. While there may be semi justified statements about developers only, and security risks (very very low), it was one of the strengths of S60.

Now, all of a sudden, theres a huge number of apps that cannot be used.

And quite simply, they are the best ones.

The result is, symbian just got a lot more boring for a lot of people.

Im smart enough to be careful with what I put on my phone. If I install something that damages it, on my own head be it. Id like to have the choice back.

No no no guys, Symbian indeed has suspended Open Signing, but it is temporarily, it will go live again somewhere in Q1 2008

Read the topics in the following forum for more information:

http://developer.symbian.com/forum/index.jspa

Specifically this one: http://developer.symbian.com/forum/ann.jspa?annID=35

obry wrote:Seriously, why the hell are they locking us from installing whatever we want. I paid $700 for this damn phone - no contracts, no B.S. I should be allowed to install whatever I want on it and not be constrained by the piece of crap commercial software only. This is really pissing me off.

Is that so ???

I can remember last year, that overhere was a thread about R66 v7.3.545, that was able to navigate with the [i]internal[/b] GPS of the N95, however:

The installation-file was unsigned!

And then everyone went to SymbianSigned to request a certificate; some were even too lazy to make their own account, and requested other people to get a certificate . . .
Some people did that, and requested certificates NOT for themselves, but for others . . .
If an account at SymbianSigned has 2 different IMEI's, I think they can live with it; but when your account has a lot more IMEI's . . . :icon4:

People at SymbianSigned are also reading forums, so thanks for this :icon4:

My advice, when SymbianSigned are willing for us, normal users, to open requests again: STOP requesting certificates for others !!!
Everyone with an internet-account at home has also a normal/valid email-address, so they can make their own account . . .

The certificates are not made for cracked/illegal software, but make it possible for developers to test their software!

I still have my certificate valid until end of 2010 ... I did help some people here to sign some applications "legal free apps only" and I have their certificate but I'm not sure if I have .key file for each one, so can they use it without .key file ?
If there is a way I will post last 4 digits of their IMEIs and they can PM to send them.

bartmanekul wrote:Specifically this one: http://developer.symbian.com/forum/ann.jspa?annID=35

Open Signed Online. This means Symbian now get to decide who, how many, when, and why you can or cannot sign your application. Some people wont mind this, but I do.

This will have the desired effect on two fronts, it reduces piracy (a good thing) and increases their cash flow. (A bad thing - by forcing anyone serious to pony up $200)

Other forum posts, as well as symbian themselves, indicate that the entire application must be uploaded to their site, and they sign it for you.

This is not a solution at all.

Their arguments about their signing server are relevant, and I concur that idiots should not be writing programs that hammer symbian signed day and night. There are far better solutions to this problem though - captcha, automated email confirmations, random url hacks, an endless list really.

their page says, quote:
"- Open Signed Online and Offline for users without a Publisher ID will NOT be available temporarily, an update will be provided during Week beginning 25th Feb."

doesnt this mean its just for a week or so ? and why when so many boose about ?

Everyone seems to be bitching about Symbian making sure they have control of their website and their services... isn't that a bit like bitching that your car maker wants to recall your car to fix something in it?

Symbian have said that Open Signed will be back, but they (quite rightly) are ensuring that they put more controls in place to stop bots and humans requesting many many certificates that are not needed.

Now we could all harp on about how Symbian should change the entire signed process to make it easier to get signed apps which could potentially damage your phone, but that's a different argument. I think what they're doing at the moment is correct, although I too would like to see apps like FExplorer, RotateMe and a few others with proper public certificates enabling anyone to install them.

Think I'll be sticking with my current phone for a while now.
Wonder how Nokia feel about it, since a lot of folk will think twice about changing phones.

dchky wrote:I guess a few people wont be buying Nokia anymore, myself included.

This isn't Nokia's doing though, I imagine they are more annoyed about it than anyone. Although they are the main supporter for Symbian they aren't the only one.
I'm sure Nokia are already having words with Symbian over this. Personally, I think, if Symbian are going to make it hard/impossible to self-sign then they need to pull their finger out about genuine developer requests. Samir has several final apps which are still awaiting symbian signing.

stuclark wrote:
Symbian have said that Open Signed will be back, but they (quite rightly) are ensuring that they put more controls in place to stop bots and humans requesting many many certificates that are not needed.

Bots I can see, but humans? Only way I can see that is by checking what file it is. So unless they create a 'blacklist', which goes by...filesize? Then its going to have to be individually checked. Which costs a lot of time and money. I cant see how its possible to do that with free accounts.

stuclark wrote:
Now we could all harp on about how Symbian should change the entire signed process to make it easier to get signed apps which could potentially damage your phone, but that's a different argument. I think what they're doing at the moment is correct, although I too would like to see apps like FExplorer, RotateMe and a few others with proper public certificates enabling anyone to install them.

But thats the problem, you cant have it both ways. rotateme etc will not get public certificates until its submitted and passed, which brings a load of new problems.

First is that your not going to see hide nor hair of it till its actually been publically signed.

And how long ago was rotateme started? And its still not publically signed (although its been applied for).

Second problem is that how do you get beta testers for it? Without people being able to sign for themselves, theres no way samir would have got half the feedback he did.

And lastly, funding. Yes its freeware, but samir presumably gets helped by donations (mainly by people wanting the betas) of which no-one has to pay.

But without that rather well working model, would there still be as many apps coming out?

The flipside, of course is opening up the phone to damaging programs. Which I do think would start appearing if symbian got rid of the signing process. However, they have to find a compromise in my opinion, as beta software like rotate me was a huge strength of S60, and people have now gotten used to it.

Damned if you do, damned if you dont. But Id much prefer the S60 platform rather than the locked up one of apple. If the 2 phones were not much apart in specs, which would you rather go for? I know where my vote would be.

My first Symbian phone was the nokia 7650 which i loved due to the ability to expand its software features by installing apps created by anyone with the know how, not just software houses.

I hadn't touched another Symbian handset until the N95 and was surprised when I found out that some independant apps had to be signed, fortunately there was a way to get it signed but before I found out about this, I began thinking if I should have got a Windows Mobile instead. I stuck with it as there were only one or two apps that needed signing, everything else that I bought was dealt with by the publisher/Symbian

Now with more utilities and applications being release that require self-signing for the platform, I don't approve of a closed signing method, if it is implemented. To me it's like having a car and wishing to use a phone charger or some other accessory...but it has to be approved of by the car manufacturer before it can be used anymore, despite it working in the past. No approval, no activation.

I was (and still am to a point) really keen on getting another Symbian handset, as back on the 7650 and early days of the N95 I saw it as how all phones should be, but now the more it looks like Symbian want to control usage of its platform with regard to developers , the less I want to stay. 😞

3Shirts wrote:This isn't Nokia's doing though, I imagine they are more annoyed about it than anyone.

Nokia own the biggest share of Symbian - 47.9%

http://www.symbian.com/about/fastfacts/fastfacts.html

HoundDog wrote:Nokia own the biggest share of Symbian - 47.9%

http://www.symbian.com/about/fastfacts/fastfacts.html

Isn't that pretty much what I said? Nokia are their biggest exponent but crucially, they don't have a controlling share so cannot 'force' Symbian to do anything

An analogy springs to mind. There's a shop in town that has something that we all want. We all go down to town but the shop, for whatever reason, is pretty slow to open its doors. I'm a bit cross about this but join the queue anyway. Some people, however, get impatient, jump the queue, and start hammering on the door, telling sob stories so that they'll get preferential treatment. The people in the shop are now spending so much of their time seeing to these people that they're falling even further behind on preparing the shop for opening. What do they do? They tell the queue-jumpers to piss off, lock the door, and continue getting the shop ready to open. Good for them.

stuclark wrote:isn't that a bit like bitching that your car maker wants to recall your car to fix something in it?

Not at all. It's like the car manufacturer locking the hood of your car with a speciel key that you need to apply for to get. Then, after you have bought the car, you are told 'but you can't have that key anyway!'. The hood is locked and you can't decide for yourself who gets to work on your car. Only the manufacturer can open the hood, so he can charge whatever price he likes and only do the work that pleases him.

Thankfully this is only an issue for a few days, but I think that many S60 owners take this as a wake up call and will reconsider if they really want to support an operating system that can be locked so easily? It's not like we get the phones any cheaper for that reason.

sbc wrote:...and will reconsider if they really want to support an operating system that can be locked so easily? ...

Oh, come off it. And what happens when the first worms and viruses start spreading? PR disaster, that's what. At least at the moment they can say that Symbian is 100% secure. Yes, I'm angry that apps take so long for developers to get signed, but I don't want Symbian to relax their security model. It also seems to me that there's a lot that can be done with Python. So the word "locked" is, frankly, bollocks.

neilhoskins wrote:And what happens when the first worms and viruses start spreading?

Must admit, this is what springs to mind when I read about Android. Not sure I want a phone where any Tom Dick or Harry can knock something up and wack it out to the masses.

neilhoskins wrote:Oh, come off it. And what happens when the first worms and viruses start spreading? ... So the word "locked" is, frankly, bollocks.

As a grown up with 25 years of computing experiences, I really don't like the fact the I am not allowed to use my paid for device, because some kid may not know how to operate his. If that supervising logic were applied to other parts of life, your car wouldn't go faster than 60mph or whatever your countrys speedlimit, an electric fense would be accross the road when the light was red, all internet sites unsuited for kids at the age of three would be removed 'to protect'.

Removing freedom to 'protect' is the worst excuse in history.

Car anologies never work, as seen, they can be twisted for both sides of an argument.

i got the n95 8gb two days ago, the only thing i want is to install nokmote, rotate and simmilar freeware applications but i can not 😡

its really p***ing me off, ill wait till 25th see what they gonna do about their signing policy. if they gonna charge $200 for a bloody publisher ID then ill ditch symbian and go with windows mobile.

i got 14 days peace of mind so i can send the phone back.

even without being able to install unsigned apps
symbian still have by far more public apps available than any other platform.
and as people have said the current stuation is not forever, just a few weeks
so why is such a big deal being made over this ?
i bet most have not ever visited there site but still are going around bitching just b/c they are listening to hear say