In the second part of my 'Camera Nitty Gritty' series, I look at the relative advantages and disadvantages of the different flash technologies used in phone cameras: Xenon, LED and dual LED. With examples, I demonstrate the increased illumination from LED to Xenon and also show the differences in the speed of capture.
Read on in the full article.
...and there are still people who say that Xenon flash makes no difference!
The photos of the drum kits make it pretty clear what Xenon's advantage is, this is the kind of down-to-earth example that manufacturers ought to use when advertising phones with Xenon flashes.
(Nice composition on the drummer photos with the lager cans by the way...)
I wish Nokia would come up with a way of connect a seperate flash to their phones, like I do with my stand-alone camera and a very bright 20 meter flash. Especially as phone cameras become more powerfull and functional. I would love to be able to flash my subject from a different angle to the camera. I would also love it if I could control the shutter time in order to take some long exposure photography so that I could paint in some light with a bright torch and the flash. I like my stand alone camera but I'm looking forward to total camera convergence with my phone
Sorry, just to add to my last comment, it might be a good idea if someone could come up with a flash that could be controlled with bluetooth. That would get past the need for more plugs and cables and the flash would be a truely free agent. Imagine the photo possibilities.
Thanks, Doonit.
@unregistered,
You can get all of the things you asked for by purchasing a normal camera and realizing that a camera phone is just that a camera phone. Did you remotely think about how utterly rediculous your post sounds before you hit the enter key? Why not ask for interchangable lenses as well, or braketing functions, how about the ability to shoot in RAW? Your post is well, stupid, stupid, stupid. The object oh having the camera in the phone is to allow you to shoot on the go, not to have a studio in your pocket. Get real will you.
Did you remotely think about how utterly rediculous your post sounds before you hit the enter key? Your post is well, stupid, stupid, stupid.
Did you think about how nasty your post sounds before you hit the enter key?
The original poster's idea is perfectly fair, there are S60 cameraphones out now which are primarily aimed at photographers (for example Nokia's N82 and Samsung's INNOV8) so it's reasonable to ask if they can become even more camera-like. You can attach external keyboards and joysticks and GPS receivers to phones, why not camera flashes? And controlling shutter time is even more plausible, it might even be possible on existing autofocus phones with a firmware update.
Even if you don't agree with this, there's no need to be so unpleasant about it. At the end of the day we're just talking about gadgets here, it's not a hugely serious topic.
@1st unregistered
I suspect a xenon flash would be powerful enough to trigger a wireless slave flash. LED flash would not.
If you already have a flash unit with a hot shoe, you could buy a "Wireless Hot Shoe Sync Adapter" for a fiver on eBay.
I find that Nokia has an algorithm for taking close up shots with the Xenon flash. Usually if properly focused, the flash will not result in overexposure.
Unlike the K800i for example, the flash is just terrible for close ups. It's like as if the flash and the shutter speed control software (?) are not communicating directly.
It seems like the Xenon Flash's pre-flash (just before the 2nd and last flash in the Auto Flash Mode) does meter the exposure before actually taking a picture.
Bluetooth is to slow to trigger flash. Anyways better than carring around an extra flash for the phone camera (which is still a small small small sensor) i'd better carry around a pocketable digital camera - even the 100$ models give way better results than the 300+ phones even coupled with an imaginary 100+ remote flash...
I have never seen nor used a phone more than just shooting friends for contacts images and no matter how good the camera was it was still worse than my first digital camera (2 mp, fuji fine pix in 2001)
Unregistered wrote:Why not ask for interchangable lenses as well, or braketing functions, how about the ability to shoot in RAW?
Okay, I agree that a separate flash and interchangable lenses are probably overboard. The advantage of a cameraphone is that it is an "all in one" device. That you will generally always have on you. Most people don't want to have the other components stuffed in their pockets - that's why they bought a convergence device.
I don't see why software functionality needs to be limited though. With the large storage on modern devices (both internal and external), RAW pictures are not out of the question.
The ability to set the exposure in the camera application is already available and has been used to produce passable HDR photos with the N95 (rather limited by the compression and the technique with which it needs to be done, requiring multiple very still photos with manual alteration of settings in between each one). So there's no real reason why bracketing couldn't also be included.
In fact, I was disappointed to see that the C++ API (and therefore also the Python API) doesn't allow access to the exposure compensation - it looks like it's done with a closed API that only the on-board camera has access to. I was hoping to remove the need for a bluetooth input device to alter the settings so that the camera stayed still between shots.
With the stupid keyboard on the N82, the dual LED flash on the N85 and N79, and the presence of Xenon on the 6620 Classic but lack of various other things on it, Nokia is determined not to let us have the perfect phone. Why? Because one handset would triumph over the rest and kill the diversity of their range of phones. But don't ever believe it's due to technical, economic, or battery reasons, because it's not. If they wanted to make the perfect phone, they could easily.
Good article!
The Xenon flash is a great thing and really makes the n82 a solid camera phone but I would like to see shooting in RAW as well.
I don't know what's so bad with the n82 keyboard - I prefer it to the n95's keyboard. I often wonder if people complain about features that they have never tried... but I guess everyone likes something different.
I do think that the current top of the range phones should have the best features. Whilst Xenon flash may use up the battery quicker - it only does this if you actually use it so I don't really see that as a big issue. As for the dual led being good for video - i can't really comment but I would assume its not very bright and therefore only good for close objects - is this true?
As for interchangable lenses and flashes i think these are a bit overkill for a camera phone - many point and shoot cameras don't offer these but maybe Nokia could add a thread to the lens cover to allow add on lenses...I doubt it is something i would use though.
For me the next Nokia cameraphone should offer the optical zoom of the N93, the Xenon flash of the N82, optical stabilization as well as the ability to capture in RAW but it will probably just offer more Megapixels to keep up with the competition...
Convergence has done away with almost all of my old gadgets.i see no reason why future technology cant do away with all but the high end professional digital cameras. Then, quite possibly, we can all have a photo studio in our pockets.
I found the second unregistered commentators outbursts embarrassing. Why must some people be so rude?
I agree on bluetooth been slow. Even on bluetooth headsets, it takes about half a second for the headset to fire up the volume when a call comes at the phone.
@Tzer2,
Sorry about the harsh tone. Just got in an arguement with my boss for something that was his fault. Blame dispersal at its finest.
For this I retract the harsh tone but, I still think it is WAY over the top what the OP was requesting.
Steve, echoing Unregistered 12.30pm comment, I would love to see a quick follow up or an update on this article comparing the 'video shooting in bad light conditions' of the same three phones. I suspect of course that N79 would come out tops but it would be interesting to see how much of a difference there is between N95 and N82. Another interesting follow up would be to compare N79 and N96 to see if there is any difference there.
With the stupid keyboard on the N82, the dual LED flash on the N85 and N79, and the presence of Xenon on the 6620 Classic but lack of various other things on it, Nokia is determined not to let us have the perfect phone. Why? Because one handset would triumph over the rest and kill the diversity of their range of phones. But don't ever believe it's due to technical, economic, or battery reasons, because it's not. If they wanted to make the perfect phone, they could easily.
If it's so easy to make a "perfect" phone with every possible feature that weighs nothing and is cheap to buy, why isn't one of Nokia's many rivals doing it already? Why didn't Motorola do that to win back their market share instead of collapsing? Why isn't Samsung doing it to take over the number 1 spot?
The answer is that it isn't easy, in fact it's impossible. Every device ever made has been a trade off between size, price, features and (in the case of mobile devices) battery life, anyone who has followed the history of consumer electronics knows that.
Or are you going to claim Nokia has some magical monopoly on making mobile phones?
Or is it perhaps a worldwide conspiracy involving all phone manufacturers? 😊
It's also impossible because not everyone wants the same thing. Asking for a perfect phone is like asking for a perfect car: would that be a jeep, or an estate, or a limo, or a sports car? Would it have a petrol, diesel or hybrid engine?
The diversity of phone models reflects the diversity of a market that sells over a billion phones a year, being bought by everyone from rich Americans to poor Ethiopians. When you're talking about a market like that you can't possibly come up with a single model that satisfies such diverse needs and tastes.
But even if it were possible, why would any manufacturer want to avoid it? Why wouldn't Nokia make "the perfect phone"? Making lots of different models simply makes manufacturers' lives more difficult: it means more expensive marketing, more expensive testing, more compatibility problems, more manufacturing problems, more distribution problems. Manufacturers would love to make just one phone a year and sell that to everyone. Very very very few people own more than one phone at a time, so this idea that manufacturers are trying to bounce people into buying several phones at once doesn't really make any sense.
Even if there was one single perfect phone model, mobile technology moves on so quickly that it would get out of date within a year, which is the kind of time scale where people upgrade anyway.
Thanks alot guys this is the exact test I've been waiting for. I really want the n85 but i'm not sure i can be without the xenon flash. I'm out in about with friends and family all the time and have captured countless moments with me n82 that look great. if i had the pictures would've been grainy and lacking detail, and sometimes blurred because most of the photos i take are in low-light. i guess it all depends on lifestyle.
ps. I would love to see a few more samples of this dual-led vs xenon test.
Tzer2 wrote:If it's so easy to make a "perfect" phone with every possible feature that weighs nothing and is cheap to buy, why isn't one of Nokia's many rivals doing it already?.......The answer is that it isn't easy, in fact it's impossible.
Come on Tzer2, don't overexaggerate my argument in an attempt to paint it as invalid.
Essentially what I'm saying is - Nokia could have stuck a sensible keyboard on the N82 (nothing stopping them), they could have stuck a Xenon rather than dual LED flash on the N85 (nothing stopping them), they could have added in Wifi and an accelerometer to the 6220 Classic (nothing stopping them). There might have been small effects in some case, but nothing significant, and they have already has these missing features in other handsets. All of these would have resulted in a good enough "perfect" phone for most people - that is all we're asking for, a phone without blatant obvious flaws that could technically easily have been avoided. This has been stated time and time again in numerous online discussions about Nokia handsets.
You can't possibly argue that Nokia not adding in those missing features I've just listed to those specific handsets, is anything other than marketing/management/strategy decisions. I'm not talking about mythical fantasy phones from an idealist world!
Why would they have added wifi and GPS in 6220 and make it $50 more expensive? Yes, for some people $50 is important.
But I do agree that is partly about marketing and targeting a particular segment. Its becoming like shrits: they all (well most) cover your nipples, belly bottom, your hairy back and a part of your arms. Beyond that its all about design, materials, and targeting the guy who likes blue and the other girl that likes pinks. And someone will make a shirt that does show your nipples.. ewww..
I think tzer2 and you are basically saying the same thing, actually.
Nice article! 😎 Since Nokia announced the dual LED phones, I've been curious how they compared to single LED and especially the Xenon.
LEDs have a long way to go until they reach the lightning of a xenon flash, even if the dual LEDs are a very noticeably improvement over single LEDs. Xenon is clearly the winner here for me, as I don't see much of a point in shooting a video in the dark. But even when it's bright outside, videos are pretty unimportant for me.
I look forward to see new N-series phones with xenon flash from Nokia. Maybe happens at the GSMA Mobile World Congress in february? I just want a smaller N82 but with a good comfortable keypad, preferably with OLED and USB charging like the N85.
viipottaja wrote:Steve, echoing Unregistered 12.30pm comment, I would love to see a quick follow up or an update on this article comparing the 'video shooting in bad light conditions' of the same three phones. I suspect of course that N79 would come out tops but it would be interesting to see how much of a difference there is between N95 and N82. Another interesting follow up would be to compare N79 and N96 to see if there is any difference there.
viipottaja wrote:Why would they have added wifi and GPS in 6220 and make it $50 more expensive? Yes, for some people $50 is important.
Sorry, meant accelerometer. But that's beside my point anyway.
And I think there would be a point comparing video performance and not just still photo performance. I woudl imagine its not quite that 1:1 straightforward and simple, while broadly the same differences of course apply.
Whats all this about the N82 keypad? It may take a bit of getting used to but once you arrive its a very nice keypad to work with indeed. Highspeed texting is easier for me after a few months than its ever been with any other phone I've had. Yet again, a question of personal taste!
As far as the perfect phone is concerned, I doubt we will ever get beyond the staple form factors. Some people like clamshells, others like sliders,etc. Given time I think we'll eventually arrive at the perfect feature set, though. Every phone will have all the capabilities. The mobile world is still a young world, you just have to give it a chance.
am i the only one who thinks single led looks better than dual led? The colors are way over exposed on the dual led and they don't look natural at all. the xenon wipes the floor with the two.
People, stop bullying bluetooth. Once fired up it is freaking fast to trigger anything you want. And there is nothing that prevents a programmer to initialize bluetooth connection during same half second that it takes the whole camera software to load.
I wonder if anyone thinks that the single LED managed to capture a nice atmosphere for the drum set, as I think drum sets are often associated with low light and stuff like that. I mean, I think I wouldn't want a shot from a disco to look like I have taken it in a brightly lit psychiatric hospital... though they probably resemble each other in a way.....
Two cents.
Unregistered wrote:I wonder if anyone thinks that the single LED managed to capture a nice atmosphere for the drum set, as I think drum sets are often associated with low light and stuff like that. I mean, I think I wouldn't want a shot from a disco to look like I have taken it in a brightly lit psychiatric hospital... though they probably resemble each other in a way.....Two cents.
Which brings me to my own demand - how about a dual LED flash with the option to choose single or dual LED before the snap? That way I can choose the amount of light I want for a snap.
I agree that a good light is essential in most of photos, but trust me there are some photos which are brilliant in low light conditions too. I know, I have taken them.
xenon is very cool!
but the worst thing on N82 is the flash is useless while capturing video...
why don't nokia makes N82 like the sony ericsson K850? K850 has both xenon and LED flash,it do better.
4everskyline wrote:xenon is very cool!
but the worst thing on N82 is the flash is useless while capturing video...
why don't nokia makes N82 like the sony ericsson K850? K850 has both xenon and LED flash,it do better.
Good call! add an optical zoom & raw capturing and that could be the new nokia camera / video phone!!
4everskyline wrote:xenon is very cool!
but the worst thing on N82 is the flash is useless while capturing video...
why don't nokia makes N82 like the sony ericsson K850? K850 has both xenon and LED flash,it do better.
Nokia needs to wake the hell up. They are making too many models aka SE.