The Nokia N86, imaging at its best

Dual LED Flash = Fail

For the first time ever, I've grown tired of Nokia. I wanted a true upgrade to the N82, and this just isn't it. I'm begging for a new phone as I've had to N82 too long now. I get bored quickly. Tho that being said my N82 is by far my favourite phone of all time.

Looks like I'm going to have to settle for an LED flash in my next phone, but it won't be the N86. A phone based on same hardware as a 2 year old n95, it's going to the Omnia HD.

I could accept Nokias sometimes less than perfect software, when they were leading in hardware. But now they are not leading in either!

Shame on you.

The N86 is quite a disappointment. Nokia continues to give us almost what we want....and what I really want is an updated camera phone with Xenon..hell I'd even settle for a phone that is same as the N82 with updated FP2, bigger display, and new form factor. The mpx can be the same. The photos taken with the N82 are just awesome and why Nokia hasn't updated this phone is beyond me.

Xenon flash, LED flash, both are carp. Even the N82 as a camera is carp, the N86 still costrained and compromised by the fact it's a phone will also be carp as a camera.

Even reasonably expensive compact digital cameras have poor flashes.

If you want to do photography, get a camera.

I, personally, wish that Nokia had gone with SE's solution for it's high end camera phones by including both LED and Xenon flash. Then, the LED's could be used for video and the Xenon for still photography.

Yes, it would have added some millimeters to the phone. However, I don't think most people would have minded that much - I wouldn't.

its crazy to think that this cellphone-cam can challenge stand alone digital cameras (p&s) such as canon G10 or A600 series ....

UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGLY!!!!
I'd even buy E75 over this....

wow this sucks....
i just got the N85 its perfect!
and now...
N86....:_(

feels like a rip off but hey >😃 N85 is good enough for me I have a Nikon D90 for photographs anywayz.

but can anyone tell me (apart from the obvious camera and better build quality)

are there any major different in spec wise?
thanks

dk206

tkao2025 wrote:what I really want is an updated camera phone with Xenon

Unregistered wrote:It seems sort of wierd that all the nerdy guys posting in this forum still have the ancient N82. Why are the people not comparing the obvious i.e. N85 vs N86 ?

Dude, N85 with N86? Which world do you live in? Since when N85 got the imaging capabilities to vie for the imaging flagship spot?
All the nerdy here own N82 because they own the best imaging device available right now and they are here to find out, if after 1 year, there is a decent upgrade for N82 or not...

I own an N82 and after going thru all the feeds available on N86, I think I will give this a miss and probably wait for 2010 to upgrade.

Why put 375 bucks on something which has not bowled me over completely?

Unregistered wrote:Since we're talking dream phones, what I really want is an updated camera phone with xenon flash and a 3x optical zoom (like in the N93).

The Samsung G810 is S60 and has both optical zoom and Xenon, I've got one here and will get it firmware upgraded next week, hopefully. Bit heavy and klunky though.... Worth further investigation though.

There's been a number of comments relating to comparisons with the above devices.

Here are the highlights compared to N85:

8mp
28mm wide-angle
f/2.4 aperture and latest generation silicon = 100% increase in low light sensitivity
variable aperture = wider exposure control range
mechanical shutter = free from distorted images of fast moving objects
8GB internbal memory whilst retaining the micro SD slot
3rd generation LED flash = 66% more powerful than N85. Coupled with above improvements = acceptable images up to around 3.5m
New DSP is faster and has more RAM = 40% improvement in latencies
Hardened glass front which sits on a metal plate as well as surrounded by a metal bezel. It is this that largely is responsible for the weight increase - the penalty for more premium materials
Kick-stand
Digital compass
Various updated applications, UI iconography
Improved usability for all keys especially those in the ITU area and multimedia slide.
Plus a few other SW based improvements still being worked on

Compared to N82:

Yes the big downside is the lack of xenon. This would have increased the size of the product by what was considered too great a margin
Now for the positives in addition to all those already listed above:
FM transmitter and RDS
25 hours music playback time vs around 5-7 plus corresponding improvements in talk time, video playback etc etc.
2.6" OLED display
Form factor of course
USB charging
FP 2
Many newer applications e.g. Photos
Higher speed USB data transfer
Many other smaller items but I just listed above those which immediately come to mind. Many people will now add to this list.

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Unregistered wrote:For the first time ever, I've grown tired of Nokia. I wanted a true upgrade to the N82, and this just isn't it. I'm begging for a new phone as I've had to N82 too long now. I get bored quickly. Tho that being said my N82 is by far my favourite phone of all time.

Looks like I'm going to have to settle for an LED flash in my next phone, but it won't be the N86. A phone based on same hardware as a 2 year old n95, it's going to the Omnia HD.

I could accept Nokias sometimes less than perfect software, when they were leading in hardware. But now they are not leading in either!

Shame on you.

Hi, I was involved in concepting both the N82 and N86 8MP.

I'd be interested to here what your hopes/desires/expectations for a replacement to the N82 would be, apart from the obvious inclusion of xenon flash of course 😉

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Dinning wrote:Hi, I was involved in concepting both the N82 and N86 8MP.

I'd be interested to here what your hopes/desires/expectations for a replacement to the N82 would be, apart from the obvious inclusion of xenon flash of course 😉

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oops, should check my spelling next time....

talhamid wrote:That d-pad, call and end keys, and the soft keys, worry me. They worry me a lot. What is it with Nokia's imaging flagships? Do they have to have awkward form factors (N93) or horrific keypad (N82) or bulk AND horrific d-pad (N86)? I mean, when will they take out an imaging centric phone that is NORMAL in all respects?

Oh, I forgot the 6220 classic 😉

The challenge was in the inclusion of the glass front. You may have seen the drop tests Nokia run on all their devices?

Each hole in the glass weakens the glass. Placing the holes close to each other also weakens the glass. You'll notice that we combined the S60 app key and the MM menu key. This allowed us to eliminate an additional hole as well as have a cleaner layout of the keys. We are also always restricted in the placement of the keys in relation to the display because of the very large connector that comes from the lower section of the display. You can't place keys on top of this unless you recess the display which would then look ugly and create a thicker device. The effect you can't really see in these pictures we were aiming for, was also for the keys which punch through the holes in the glass to look like glass themselves. We're still playing with this in fact. To reduce the gap between the display and the soft keys with the N86 8MP resulted in us using membrane keys which are almost flush with the glass, but require a small amount of pressure thereby reducing/eliminating accidental key presses of these keys. These keys are much lower in height than regular keys and therefore meant we could partially site them on the display driver area resulting in what we felt was a much cleaner layout as well as one which looks simpler whilst not detracting from the smooth precision flat surface of the glass.

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Unregistered wrote:2 things phone cams need before they can be as 'good' as even the most basic digi cam.
-xenon flash
-at least 3x optical zoom

and a ccd sensor would be nice too (but yes, unrealistic given size/battery reqs)

2-3 years ago would agree with the comment about CCD, however, CMOS has really closed the gap now. look at the amount of high end digital SLR's now using CMOS.

You'll see a lot more compacts DSC's using CMOS soon too I'm sure.

Challenge with optical zoom is getting the size of the lens module into the device along with acceptable performance. So far optical zoom in mobile has been far below the performance level of regular DSC's.

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ericHNI wrote:Sorry but I just can't be excited about the N86. The main selling point for me (for a imaging flagship device) is the xenon flash. If I'm going to have a LED flash, I could buy the Omnia HD instead which has far better specs although probably it isnt in the same price range.

Nokia seems to have abandoned Xenon flashes for good, thats very sad.

😊

Dinning wrote:😊

please excuse my request, ive been following aas for a few years now, but have lapsed for the last few months,
How does the n86 fair (rough first impressions !) spec wise to n96 ?

Cheers

An ex N73, currently n95 8gb user looking around for an upgrade option may / june

Pps please excuse the weird post, im ureing mcdonalds dodgy wifi !

For someone like me who never exposures correctly, having DNG files would help. Also more latitude in exp. corrections eg -3 ... +3

Dinning wrote:I'd be interested to here what your hopes/desires/expectations for a replacement to the N82 would be, apart from the obvious inclusion of xenon flash of course 😉

D

To Dinning (hope you are still reading) as a N82 owner and as having observed comments from others:

- obviously, N82's follow up should keep the Xenon flash; addition of led as well to shoot video would be fantastic but not ultimately a deal breaker at least for me
- many have said its bulky; I have no issues with that but if the thickness or volume can be reduced slightly without compromising performance, go for it. 😊
- slightly bigger and definitely brigther screen would be probably on most folks wish list; some seem the follow up to a TS device, but to me that would not be a follow up to N82 to anymore but a completely differently targeted device
- keypad could be somewhat better ergonomically
- I have no major gripes with build quality- some commentators keep b***ing about it...
- and of course it should have as good a lense, sensor etc. as N86 does.
That's about it. 😊

Wink if you can! 😃 😉

Unregistered wrote:Xenon flash, LED flash, both are carp. Even the N82 as a camera is carp, the N86 still costrained and compromised by the fact it's a phone will also be carp as a camera.

Even reasonably expensive compact digital cameras have poor flashes.

If you want to do photography, get a camera.

Totally agree.

Come to make me wonder. How many people with N82 are using them for professional use?

By professional use, I mean make money with the camera. Like taking wedding pictures or something. Blogging also counts since the picture are posted on revenue generating websites. So the quality of the picture counts because it effect your income.

For me, as long as the picture caputures the moment accurately, it's good enough, so 5MP is more than enough already.

viipottaja wrote:To Dinning (hope you are still reading) as a N82 owner and as having observed comments from others:

- obviously, N82's follow up should keep the Xenon flash; addition of led as well to shoot video would be fantastic but not ultimately a deal breaker at least for me
- many have said its bulky; I have no issues with that but if the thickness or volume can be reduced slightly without compromising performance, go for it. 😊
- slightly bigger and definitely brigther screen would be probably on most folks wish list; some seem the follow up to a TS device, but to me that would not be a follow up to N82 to anymore but a completely differently targeted device
- keypad could be somewhat better ergonomically
- I have no major gripes with build quality- some commentators keep b***ing about it...
- and of course it should have as good a lense, sensor etc. as N86 does.
That's about it. 😊

Wink if you can! 😃 😉

So the only thing on your list the N86 doesn't have is the xenon. Keep following 2009.nseries.com for updates, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised how well the N86 handles itself in low light....

What we've posted to date we'll improve on, those images were taken with pre-production cameras and early software, I'm really looking forward to see how much the guys can squeeze out of this great new camera, it's definitely going to be our best yet. 😊

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To those whining about optical zoom - with lenses smaller than 3", no matter how good the optics are, chances are that the image would suck as more lenses require more light, and thus introduce more noise if the lens remains at the size.

Now if only Nokia could just place a keypad and the phone innards in a standard PnS camera, implemented well, of course. ;P

INSTANT WINNAR!

Just for kicks, did any one notice that while Sony uses Carl Zeiss lenses for their normal PnS cameras, they never use them for their flagship imaging devices.

Just saying.

Carl Zeiss Vario Tessar would be extremely good branding for the next N87 10MP with 3X Optical Zoom.

Just saying, too. Hohohoho....

went to 2009.nseries.com and didn't see a link for n86 camera samples?

Dinning wrote:Hi, I was involved in concepting both the N82 and N86 8MP.

I'd be interested to here what your hopes/desires/expectations for a replacement to the N82 would be, apart from the obvious inclusion of xenon flash of course 😉

br

D

For me personally, there are a couple of (realistic) requirements to make a great successor to the N82 (though I've never owned one):
-Keep xenon & add LED (to be used as a flashlight/for videos)
-N86 or better optics
-OLED screen, 2.6' or larger
-Keep the candybar formfactor and build quality, possibly try to make it slimmer

In other words, the N86 is almost perfect as a successor, but just lacks the xenon and formfactor..

Dinning wrote:So the only thing on your list the N86 doesn't have is the xenon. Keep following 2009.nseries.com for updates, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised how well the N86 handles itself in low light....

What we've posted to date we'll improve on, those images were taken with pre-production cameras and early software, I'm really looking forward to see how much the guys can squeeze out of this great new camera, it's definitely going to be our best yet. 😊

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I'm actually really curious as well to see how well the N86 will fare in low-light conditions. If its performance isn't that great as all the Nokia guys keep promising us, I might just stick with my k850i a bit longer to wait for a new xenon-equipped phone with N86 optics 😊.