One of the questions sent into the All About Sym
bian podcasts has got me thinking. It was along the lines of "are you looking forward to the Nokia N97 or the N86 more?", and my honest answer, out of those two, was the N97. But reflecting a bit more on the question, and while the journalist in me wants to see the N97 in action (probably around this year's Edinburgh Festival, but more on that in August), the consumer in me doesn't feel the need to step up.
Read on in the full article.
Well said and I completely agree. However, the Nokia N97 has made me return from the Windows Mobile wilderness! (Busy trying to sell an HTC Touch HD and Xperia X1i on EBay! :rolleyes😊
I've always loved the Symbian operating system and the way Nokia update the firmware quite frequently. But, until the N97 came along I always felt that there was something not quite right with the build quality. I figured that if I paid �500 for a phone then it should FEEL like �500.
Anyway, I finally feel as though my top of the range phone is..... just about.... built like that! Also, treated myself to an E75 which is built like a tank.
Now, if the little software bugs get ironed out (no major problems here) I may feel Nokia have finally earned my money! 😉
When old devices trump the just arrived devices in multiple categories in head to head comparisons, you know there's something not going right. Enough said.
I can see the power users now pointing at the Samsung iWhateverItsCalledThisWeek, but a few thousand sales to the geeks does not make a market. You need to be able to constantly sell hundreds of thousands of units a month to have a real impact.
lucky for AAS and other bloggers that get to change handsets often. Most people, myself in particular, only get to see change once in a while with contract upgrades...unless the phone gets trashed in the meantime, that is. The result is that I still don't feel that I've found MY form factor yet and still have a way to go before I do. Best so far for me I think was my E70 (trashed after 2 months), although the screen was too small and the resolution too high for my eyes.
In my case there's the "GottaHaveIt" factor. I've had many devices since I got the E90 (mostly WM admittedly) and in the end went back to the E90. Now that I have an 5800 and the newness of owning it has worn of I'm seriously considering going back to the "Old Faithful" once again.
in other words, wtf Nokia? where is the 8Mpx device with Xenon flash and a decent browser to compete with one on the iPhone, that could entice me to switch from 20months old N82?
I had my N95 for two years and used it solidly and had great respect forit � it was such a breakthrough device. The N95 8gb came, the N96 came along but neither enticed me enough to go buy one. The touchscreen phenomenon came, loved the look and the feel of the iPhone, but it was still nowhere near as good as the N95.
So, along came the N97 and I rushed out and bought it, but in reality, I don�t think it gives me that much more than the N95 does. Yes, its different form, yes, it has a huge storage capacity ( N95 can now go up to 16gb memory card ) ,, but in some ways, the N95 was just simpler to use, and in that respect, I still rate the N95 as a better phone.
Maybe after a couple of software updates, the N97 will become as easy to me as the N95? Maybe it that its still a new phone to me? I dunno, the �X factor� the overall look, feel and usability for me, isn�t quite there yet.
I agree. My current handset is about 2 years old and I really don't think I am missing that much.
I received my N97 as my upgrade that I had been waiting for for about 3 months. Go it on Monday, set it all up, and by Monday night was bored with it already.
Rang Voda on Tuesday to tell them they can have it back.
I`m just underwhelmed by it, I cant think of any ther word to explain how I feel. Yes I like the qwert keypad, but when I compared the touch screen to a colleagues iPhone, I wasnt impressed. And I found that when using the internet, if you have your hand in the wrong place, you severly cut yor signal strength too.
I think I`m going the iPhone route now.
Agree... I feel the same:icon14:
agree agree and completely agree =)
unlike the iPhone and N95 at that time..
there isn't really anything revolutionary these days..only add a little stuff to it..
take N97 for example..
the difference i see from my N95 8GB is only the bigger screen, more memory and qwerty..
nothing new in terms of specs such as GPS like before
HSDPA still running at 3.6mbps? and no HSUPA for a flagship in 2009? u gotta be kidding..
I'm relieved to find that it's not just me who is quite happy with a not-entirely-new smartphone (in my case, the N95 'classic'😉. It's not some kind of 'Luddite' reaction - IMO, none of the subsequent handsets have been a significant improvement on the N95, or at least significant enough to coerce me to upgrade.
It's partly because the N95 does pretty well everything I could want in a smartphone (photos/videos, video editing, mobile blogging, GPS, e-mail, etc. etc.), but also because I've had it over two years and probably paid for the phone by now, I've been able to downgrade my mobile contract to just what I need and no more, with a significant cost saving.
At this rate, I think I'll stick with my N95 until either it falls terminally to bits (!), or someone comes up with a handset which does everything the N95 can do (but better), and adds some really awesome features to boot. Maybe the rumoured N900 will do it, or perhaps 2010 will bring the 'new N95' of its time?
Until then, I'm sticking with my old (refurbished) N95 😊
rvirga wrote:If you look at smartphone marketshare data, you'll see that Nokia has lost substantial marketshare last year, and it's continuing losing marketshare this year. At the same time, Samsung has gained marketshare. So it's not a matter of just a few thousand geeks.
On a side note, the above quote sums up what I find really disturbing about this website. Ideally, all reporting should be fair and balanced, but realistically from a site called "All About Symbian" one can expect a certain pro-Symbian bias. What isn't expected, and what instead one constantly finds here, is an extreme pro-Nokia bias, often at the expense (like here) of other excellent Symbian-based phones from other manufacturers. Time to rename it "All About Nokia"? I think it would more honestly portrait what this site is about.
Let me address that point. The samusng line in there is purely a reference to their name change on teh device, and historically Samsung S60 devices have always had low S60 sales. They are improving right now yes, and their HD device will hopefully make a big impact in the future... In the future that is.
Time honoured fact - geeks will always buy devices, you can guarantee a certain amount of sales for any device just on 'fanboys' no matter the company. It's getting beyond those numbers where it counts and I do look forward to Samsung telling us when they do.
And I'd also mark that article as Editorial/Opinion as opposed to hard news!
Also responding to the 'pro-Nokia' accusation, the reason we've hardly mentioned Samsung's i8910 HD is that it hasn't appeared yet in our sweaty hands. Orange's insistence that noone else is allowed to play with it until their exclusivity period is over has lost Samsung a HUGE amount of press coverage, to be honest. I'm more disappointed than anyone, I was really looking forward to championing this phone.
It is definitely the case that mobile phone functionality has reached critical mass, but it is also the case that phone manufacturers are trying to eke out the sales by doing "just enough" to entice people away from their old trusty phones (well...just enough for me anyway).
For example, I had the n95 and was supremely happy until the n96 came out and I really wanted the 32gb storage. I was even prepared to put up with the poor performance in other areas to get that extra capacity (although I did think f/w updates would relieve me of my ire!). Now the n86 comes along and 32gb microsd cards are imminent the "just enough" factors are the FM transmitter and the improved camera - although I really hope they bring out at least a 16gb version before I get to upgrade time.
TBH, I am happy with the status quo here in that I don't go out and buy new handsets and come upgrade time I get a slightly better one for free (or close) just for staying on the same contract which suits me fine. Oh and you can normally get a pretty decent price selling the old one to offset any costs of getting a new phone.
ILG
Good article, thanks Ewan.
I'm feeling the same way. There's nothing around right now thats made me think "why am i still still using this old thing" (E90). When i was shopping around for a new phone (15 months ago) i was thisclose to going with a N95, or perhaps even an Iphone (phew, dodged THAT bullet...). But then i looked at the '90 and it just clicked for me. I knew it was the device for me. I even overlapped contracts for a couple of months just so i could get it NOW.
There's been nothing (up to this point) that has repeated that excitement. That feeling of "got to get this NOW!". I looked at all the recent releases, and the about-to-be releases, and came away with a sense of "meh".
Perhaps thats the problem. I've spent so much time devouring all the articles and pre/reviews that the devices are all old hat, even before they are out. There doesn't appear to be anything 'new'. The i8910 has come the closest, but its not getting the love (from what i've read). N900, also a great idea, but Maemo? I sold my N810, mainly because of the lack of FINISHED (important word) apps.
Fortunately i still have 3 months left to see what's around the corner, but at this point i'm happy to stay with what i have.
Good the perhaps the manufacturers can start addressing the real important requirements.
1. Compactness and portability.
2. Robustness and ability to withstand shocks, liquids, grit/sand and dust invasion.
3. Reception/Signal quality and better fringe cell range performance.
4. Battery life.
Interestingly the phones that are best at the points above are not the top of the range flagship devices.
I have owned many S60 devices, the first one by "accident", with the salesman warning me that it was "complicated" (which only intrigued me more so I bought it, a Nokia 6680).
Since that time, each new S60 phone I have bought has been not necessarily an "upgrade", but definitely a different phone than the previous model.
For example, the change from a 6680 to an N70 brought a better camera and better Internet browsing (memory issue).
The change from an N70 to an N91 brought a 4G hard drive, excellent sound quality, and a 3.5mm headphone jack.
The change from an N91 to an N81 8G brought a larger memory, gaming buttons, and a more convenient size and weight (albeit, the first time I had a feeling that build quality was going down instead of up, but not horribly).
Then, the worst switch of all, from an N81 8G to an N85 cracked D-pad, impossible to see outdoors screen, badly built slider, not-so-great easily scratched-up keypad, etc. So, for the second time it seemed, to me anyway, that Nokia wasn't going upwards with each new year's selection.
So, I chucked the N85 for an N95 8G. Well, unfortunately, it's been the best phone of all of these. I say unfortunately because I should be wrong about buying a 2-year-old phone being better than a (at the time) two-month old model. But I'm not. Now, when I see the new models coming out I just think to myself, "Wait and check all the online reviews, wait for the firmware updates, see if it has any horrible defect that everyone is complaining about, then if you decide to buy it one day, cross your fingers and hope that you don't get a lemon!"
A few days ago, I got to fixing my Nokia N80, which had suffered the infamous white screen of death that they are so well known for, and got to wondering what innovation had come out of Espoo in the last two years. My answer, unhappily, was basically: faster startup/shutdown times.
Compared to the N80's 90-120 second boot time and 30-40 second shutdown time, the 5800XM's 30 second startup and 15 second shutdown are near miraculous. But, to put it in perspective: my poky netbook with a spinning platter can start Ubuntu (including waiting for me to choose the OS and type my password) faster than the 5800XM can startup and it shuts down quicker still. If I exclude the time it takes me to type my password, my desktop Mac with a spinning platter drive boots to the desktop faster than the 5800XM starts up.
Other than that, there is virtually no difference between the capabilities of my 3 year old N80 and a modern 5800XM. Sure, there's the touchscreen (with badly optimized software) and the ability to run a richer set of applications because of the added memory, but this is essentially a function of Nokia profit taking a meager $4 per unit extra instead of putting more RAM into their phones. And Nokia's refusal to support their existing phones means that all that investment Nokia is putting into buying QT and releasing Widsets and all that new Web 2.0 stuff is worthless, because the huge installed base that does not have this built into the software cannot take advantage of Nokia's latest and greatest software.
Used to be that when I wanted to buy something innovative and new, I'd go buy Nokia. Today, if I want to go buy something innovative and new, I deliberately exclude Nokia. That's why I still like my old phone and don't want to upgrade. There's nothing compelling that makes me want to upgrade. Sad.
tawalker wrote:I'm relieved to find that it's not just me who is quite happy with a not-entirely-new smartphone (in my case, the N95 'classic'😉. It's not some kind of 'Luddite' reaction - IMO, none of the subsequent handsets have been a significant improvement on the N95, or at least significant enough to coerce me to upgrade.It's partly because the N95 does pretty well everything I could want in a smartphone (photos/videos, video editing, mobile blogging, GPS, e-mail, etc. etc.), but also because I've had it over two years and probably paid for the phone by now, I've been able to downgrade my mobile contract to just what I need and no more, with a significant cost saving.
At this rate, I think I'll stick with my N95 until either it falls terminally to bits (!), or someone comes up with a handset which does everything the N95 can do (but better), and adds some really awesome features to boot. Maybe the rumoured N900 will do it, or perhaps 2010 will bring the 'new N95' of its time?
Until then, I'm sticking with my old (refurbished) N95 😊
I'm in exactly the same position. The N95 does almost everything I could practically want - calling/texting are as good as it gets, battery life is reasonable, takes reasonable still images, video recording is quite good, it can take up to 16gb of storage, geotagging, reasonable browser, good GPS functionality.
The only phone that seems to offer anything above the N95 is the N82, and that only adds the Xenon flash.
For me (and I suspect in reality a lot of other people), the N97 and N86 don't actually bring anything useful with them. Nicer screens, a little more storage, but the core functionality that probably the majority of people use - barely any change at all.
The N95 was possibly the biggest mistake Nokia have made in years - its successors just haven't moved the game along.
Fully agree, I had an N95 which I swapped for a TMobile G1 (I really missed the full keyboard of a "Communicator" and couldn't wait for the N97, seeing how the keyboard's worked out for that I'm actually glad I didn't wait).
Everything we ever wanted in a smartphone is here, we're now just waiting for Moore's Law to improve things (twice the storage, twice the speed, half the price etc.etc.).
My wishlist is now for longer battery life in a device that doesn't resemble (or have the weight of) a brick - I love my current phone, but less than 12 hours battery life is ridiculous, CPU speed (the faster the app gets run, the quicker the machine can go back to sleep), oh, and I'd really love a waterproof phone. I've seen videos of Iphones with exotic coatings working in fish-tanks, why can't Nokia/HTC/Apple do it as standard?
JCB_Digger wrote:My wishlist is now for longer battery life in a device that doesn't resemble (or have the weight of) a brick - I love my current phone, but less than 12 hours battery life is ridiculous, CPU speed (the faster the app gets run, the quicker the machine can go back to sleep), oh, and I'd really love a waterproof phone. I've seen videos of Iphones with exotic coatings working in fish-tanks, why can't Nokia/HTC/Apple do it as standard?
Unfortunately the cpacitive touchscreens on iPhones are vulnerable to shock, and a colleague of mine had his break in his pocket, just from his bending action at the hip.
If my replacement N86 comes back with any faults I think I'll be settling with my N95 classic for another year 😊 It really is a remarkable device that was ahead of it's time. I've been tempted by the iphone a few times, but then I remember that Apple are using older technology in their phones which, apart from the excellent touchscreen interface, doesn't really bring anything new to the smartphone market.
What the iphone brought is a phone that even the very poorly served unsophisticated US market could use. I have an n85 myself which I side graded from the n95 8gb because of size and later software. I used to be a bit of a gadget freak until I realised that I was hacking my Win Mo to make it easier to make phone calls. Once I understood that I went back to Nokia. But I get what the iphone did and so do the others.
Ewan, i couldn't agree more about the whole, "nothing new" opinion. i wrote a post a few weeks back http://nokiapp.com/2698 which many people disagreed with and reflecting upon it i may have been a bit narrow minded (talking as though everyone needs a N-series device) but im glad to see that on the part of "nothing new" coming to these devices i completely agree. hence why i havent been to bothered about buying an N97.
"I've been tempted by the iphone a few times, but then I remember that Apple are using older technology in their phones"
Call me when Nokia has something even close to the Iphone GS with his Cortex A8 processor and PowerVR graphics.
You re free to not like the Iphone but saying it is old tech is ridiculous and misleading.
Very interesting article and discussion. I quite agree that the releases of 'must have' devices have been slowing markedly...and I am a serious gadget freak.
I made the largest jump 3 years ago, going from a 6800 to an E61 (the first Symbian device I was able to get my hands on here in the telecom-deprived USA). For 2.5 years, that was the ultimate device for me. The E90 (and various other models) looked nice in some ways, but none ever had enough going for them for me to make a transition until the beginning of this year.
The obvious successor as my primary device was the E71, as it offered a number of seriously upgraded features. Probably most notable are the internal GPS, SDHC, larger flash and RAM, A2DP, and a reasonable camera (useful now that I am no longer working where cameras were prohibited).
The N95 would have offered some of these features earlier, but QWERTY was an absolute must, and the battery life and build quality are not on the same level. The E71 retained nearly all of the good points of the E61, while providing additional real benefits.
However, half a year with the E71 later, there is nothing else which comes close to being a serious successor in my eyes. Supposedly more advanced (and in some cases much more expensive) devices, reviews of which show them to have such issues as inferior battery life and slower QWERTY typing speed, hardly justify an 'upgrade'.
The additional features which I would most like now are TV out, FM transmitter, maybe a higher resolution screen, maybe internal stereo speakers, maybe accelerometers and compass...but none of these are worth switching to any of the available options at this point. The E71 is the best single-device solution for me.
For the poster wanting a waterproof phone, I am totally with you there! The phone with the best specs as far as waterproofing and ruggedness I've found is the Sonim XP3. Too bad it isn't even quad band, let alone a smartphone. It sounds impressive, but just like the smartphones being discussed in this thread, it doesn't offer enough to make me want to part with that much money.
It's pretty sad. Look at HTC Hero. You "feel" like buying that phone. none of the newer nokias have that sex appeal and mind you, HTC hero is not some dumb ass.
Give me something new. I am looking forward to new E72. That is a good jump atleast for me, an n series user, having 5MP on board with 3.5mm jack. Hope Ovi store is a little matured by then.
Nokia needs to understand that the way forward is not hardware goodies but software excellence
I spend hours researching the latest phones and have been excited at the prospect of getting my upgrade at the end of my contract. However on finally getting my hands on a N97 in store I was very disappointed by the flimsy feel, confusing touch interface, blank screens and freezes.
This made me think what does it do better than my existing device an E90 - well nothing really apart from GPS that works without having to wait an age and actually holds it's fix. I also currently run a wonderful HTC Tytn 2 which like the E90 does everything well (including GPS) and compared to its repacement device the HTC Touch Pro 2 again seems to not be significantly outclassed in any area.
So what do I do? Well I'll save a bit of money on my contract downgrade for a start and then keep up to date with the latest firmware and software. I'll continue to enjoy researching the latest devices and looking at alternative platform developments eg Palm, Android and iPhone and looking forward to Windows Mobile 7 (I'm very patient) plus a less half hearted attempt at a touch screen, qwerty keyboarded Symbian device than the N97..