Unregistered wrote:@buster, a quick search of "exploding battery + nokia" on google will do wonders to avoid you make a foul of yourself again 😉
Also, try "exploding battery + sony".
The problem is that people are trying to claim Apple is perfection and highlighting faults with other manufacturers, ignoring the Apple problems. Far from making a fool of himself, he is pointing Apple have equally poor prodcuts. So do Sony.
One million per month. Read it and weep.
talhamid wrote:
All of this is pathetic. Nokia are doing well sticking to their guns and not going along with the hype, doing their own thing.
Agreed. It would be a mistake to take notice of a bunch of geeks on web forums with nothing better to do but whinge because Nokia haven't custom-made them a phone.
There are far more important performance indicators.
I knew this thread would wake up the knockers! They can't accept the truth. Well done Nokia, proved the geeks wrong again:
"It is the nature of an insecure bully to always need a target to pick on"
So appropriate to describe the Nokia haters as insecure bullies.
"In case you hadn't noticed, the phone that's going to sell bucket-loads in the High Street stores this Christmas was announced at Stuttgart. The X3".
i look at the specs of X3, i doubt this very much. care to elaborate please?
Regard less of when the release data and time they took to develop it, I believe when they release something it should be useable enough. Phone should not come to dead halt after some heavy usage- alteast for these kind of smartphones.
Simple thing, I had to clear chache everything I browse. It would have been good if S60 had a cleanup by itself when the browser is closed. These simple things makes the difference in usability.
Unregistered wrote:"In case you hadn't noticed, the phone that's going to sell bucket-loads in the High Street stores this Christmas was announced at Stuttgart. The X3".i look at the specs of X3, i doubt this very much. care to elaborate please?
This is typical of the insular and selfish opinion that drives these perceptions.
OK the X3 won't suit you, but the market is not spec driven nor is the market determined by your needs. It's price and need driven. The clue is in the statement "this christmas". Christmas = gifts = schoolkids. It will sell bucketloads.
"One million per month. Read it and weep. "
Only people buying the "flagship" are crying 😉 Also would be interesting if Nokia showed the ammount of returns by month. Please do ask UK shops about this...it�ll break you�re little nokia fanboy heart
Unregistered wrote:Regard less of when the release data and time they took to develop it, I believe when they release something it should be useable enough. Phone should not come to dead halt after some heavy usage- alteast for these kind of smartphones.
Simple thing, I had to clear chache everything I browse. It would have been good if S60 had a cleanup by itself when the browser is closed. These simple things makes the difference in usability.
OK, so no cut and paste, no MMS, no GPS and no plenty more than that. And it STILL doesn't multi-task. It took 2 years and three versions to get them, none of those things were usable at release.
I don't have that browser cache problem you mention. Must be a user problem.
Unregistered wrote:"One million per month. Read it and weep. "Only people buying the "flagship" are crying 😉 Also would be interesting if Nokia showed the ammount of returns by month. Please do ask UK shops about this...it�ll break you�re little nokia fanboy heart
Well I'm no fanboy and I'm an area manager for a UK high street mobile phone chain and you are wrong and making it up.
Very interesting discussion.....I'm not sure why there is so much anger in these posts.
I use an Iphone and it fills my needs. I had used Nokias for many years and did not like the S605v. For me browsing on the Iphone and the # of applications is what I like best about it. Also syncing with Itunes. This is not saying that anyone N97 is crap...it's just that it was not for me.:shakehand
If we are discussing the N97 specifically, its the hardware i could never get on with. The screen is at ridiculous angle, standing up i cant see the screen!
What is that about, you may notice the Mini is at a different angle and while S60 is a fine OS, with 5th Edition UI the workflow is a pain and when you have small problems like ram as well, it all adds up to a bad image and blogs will jump on the bandwagon.
Let's cut the public-service crap, people. You are not obliged to bash N97 or the iPhone 3GS for the "sake of humanity."
Making motherhood statements about Nokia getting the N97 ass-backwards is getting irritating as are those about the iPhone being the incarnation of evil in the world.
If someone wants to fork over USD500 to USD700 on a phone you perceive as crappy that isn't anyone's problem but yours. I mean, exactly how many of those who posted on this thread have even touched an N97 or an iPhone???
Meanwhile, for those who've paid their "hard-earned" money for these phones and feel cheated, well... caveat emptor. The fact that you don't like it is irrelevant to me and I suspect the million who've bought them.
Go get a refund. Bury your N97 in the ground and buy an iPhone or HTC Hero -- but for the love of whatever god you worship, stop acting like a child and quit belly-aching already!
So you made a mistake buying the N97 -- man up and live with it. This isn't a real problem in the grand scheme of things. It really isn't. So it's a lot of money to you? Too bad. It's also about 4 year's wages for a sweatshop worker in China. Try to think about that before you pollute these posts with your useless pontificating.
I for one have always held the belief that the bad press the N97 has received is largely coming from a) the gadget-geek crowd that is hoping for an evolution of the Manila 3D/iPhone UI to come to Symbian; and b) the American media who are enjoying a bit of schadenfreude because, owing to the iPhone's mass appeal, the US is no longer perceived to be in the hinterlands when it comes to mobile devices. Imagine that.
Some people actually prefer the N97. Some prefer the iPhone. I have both a 3GS and an N97. Each has its advantages, each appeals to different people. I can see why in both cases.
Regardless, there really isn't an objective standard to it in the same way that we can't explain why people prefer some cars to others (regardless of whether one car is superior to the other) or why people prefer lofts to single-detached homes. It's a matter of preference. There truly is no accounting for taste.
Also, to those castigating both Apple and Nokia: these are businesses, folks. They're there to make money for their shareholders first and foremost, regardless of what you might think their role in society is. That's why there are regulators -- to advocate the interests of the public in the realm of commerce.
At the end of the day, firms are not obliged to make you exactly the product you like, only what will make them the most money. Had a bad experience with the n97's lens-scratching? Don't buy a Nokia ever again. File class-action suit if that will make you sleep at night. It's that simple. Get an iPhone if that will make you happy. Or an HTC Hero. Or a Touch Pro 2.
The point is, we've spent tons of man-hours and digital ink debating this topic for the better part of the past 2 months. Let's stop it already; let's move on. There are better things to do with our lives.
Just a minor correction to someone's post -
right maemo5? you like that? good. that's the Qt framework in action
N900's UI isn't Qt, it's GTK.
Meamo 6 will be the one based on Qt.
Ewan, the chant (others) "The beginning of the death of Symbian" is grossly exaggerated to begin with anyway.
However, after seeing the official launch of X3 and X6, it further strengthen my hypothesis that Nokia is pushing the S60 and symbian in its current form to mid tier device without actually look like doing so. Let's face it, X series is just another name for Xpress Music 5xxx series, by dropping the conventional naming sequence, Nokia has done a clever over facade to elevate its move on pushing symbian device out on mid range.
For the next two years, Maemo will play some good role in defining the flagships and high end devices in Nokia's profolio. It might be just for a niche market but certainly Nokia is under pressure to come up platforms that is refreshing and mind boggling quick to fend off the powerful emergence of devices that run on Android, WebOS and the very overated iPhone OS. They don't want to lose their big share of the pie that they have gripped over the years.
It started to make sense now seeing how N97 fold out, it didn't have the latest processor nor does it have the the biggest amount of ram. It is the legacy device that represent how far S60 could go with all the touch, qwerty and widgets. It was never intended to be next-gen, it represents the iconic flagship device that accomplished way more than it originally was intended to be. While N97 was drawing love hate attention, Nokia secretly develop N900 running on Maemo 5 to surprise other competitors. You can see how they launch the thing. It was short and swift. Officially launch this month and expected to go on sale next month. It caught everyone by surprised especially the UI.
As for the future of Maemo? I can only predict that it will dominate Nokia's flagship for the next 2 years, that would further depends on how well the reception of the platform & performance of N900. When Symbian ^ 4 starts to roll out. I would believe that Nokia would jump back to symbian seeing Nokia's strong tie/relationship with Symbian.
i dont care how many things you try to reason out and rationalize, the bottom line is nokia purposely cherry picks features for NO logical reason, and it makes them look stupid and incompetent. when they could easily add 850/1900mhz to make a complete phone, yet they dont, looks stupid. when they purposely leave out kinetic scrolling (5800) when its available in 5 other phones with identical hardware, one priced at 150euro, it makes them look stupid.
i can go on and on with prime examples, which has no rational for being that way, which makes nokia look stupid. if they want their image to cahnge, they MUST stop these shenanigans. they are too stubborn.
My previous phone being E70, I absolutely hated N97 "QWERTY" keyboard. The D-Pad on the left instead of arrows on the right, no Tab or Ctrl keys, only one Shift (left), can't insert a dot with single key press and more... I wish somebody actually wrote something on this keyboard, before releasing the phone, no matter what OS they used.
Thanks to the South Koreans in particular (& Nokia of late) and the availabilty of open source mobile OS e.g. Android OS etc the smartphone is fast becomming commoditized.
The money will definitely be in mobile services and to Nokia's credit, it is adjusting to reflect this.
Apple will continue to charge a premium for the iPhone as it does for the Mac in the PC market and will remain a high margin niche player (a 1000 suckers are still going to be born per day).
Nokia / Symbian dead ? - the press is just jumping on the bandwagon as usual so nothing new here. If you love Symbian then keep loving it, its still as pervasive as ever (I know, I've spotted N95 in the most remote part of West Africa :0) ) and is going to be around for a long long time - and more importantly, thanks to Nokia's new strategy (5320 et al), accessible to many more.
So chill out Symbianites, ignore the Jeremiahs and enjoy the ride. Ok.
Ewan, I'm following Steve Litchfield on Twitter, and, as I'm writing this, this is his latest tweet:
Been driving and navigating for the last three hours. The GPS sub-system on the N97 is rubbish. Can't even keep a lock on wide open roads!
rvirga wrote:
Gee, I wish that at least among the AAS staff you could keep your stories straight..
I have to pick up on this one - when you mean get stories straight whatt do you mean? Steve comments on the device, I comment on the device, our names are on each post, so it should be clear who is talking. I don;t drive, I cycle and I had a few things to say on the N97 GPS in the video diaries in regards to lock on in Edinburgh.
That same N97 is now with Steve, an it's having problems in his car. Which bit of this do you want us to get straight? Should one of us lie???
rvirga wrote:Ewan, I'm following Steve Litchfield on Twitter, and, as I'm writing this, this is his latest tweet:
Gee, I wish that at least among the AAS staff you could keep your stories straight.
But I'm confident that this GPS problem will be fixed by firmware v20, which will also magically fix the lens covers and un-scratch the lenses 🙄.
But if you forget the problems with the GPS, the lens cover, the missing transitions, creaking battery cover, lack of RAM and the sluggish response from the UI, it's ok really.🙄 Not a bad first attempt for a company that has just entered the phone business anyway.
Well said that man!
Maemo and the N900 are very exciting (for me and fellow digital elite) but Symbian devices will change many more peoples lives for the better.
Cheers,
Stephen
This apologist thing has gotten a little out of hand... As the first person to use the word apologist during a rant on how AAS drifted away from SYMBIAN coverage to Nokia coverage I am little non-plussed how this has been hijacked by iphone fanatics.
Anyway, I think this story is on the money. S60 will become the pervasive phone OS (note not simply smartphone OS) just like Windows is the pervasive PC OS. There will always be niches (zombie-like iphone users and free air loving linux groupies) but in the end of the day if the OS does 90% of any other OS and is cheaper to own it will eventually dominate.
I thought S60 5th edition was a bit of minger at first. But I was in a taxi last March and the taxi driver had a 5800 (this is in the UAE where the taxi drivers mostly come from 3rd world countries). I asked him how he liked it. The guy raved about it and at the next red light demonstrated how to play a video full-screen on it. If its simple enough for him I would guess its simple enough for 90% of the population.
That said I'm getting a N900. I might get an X6 or an iPhone for the wife though.
Lark
celios wrote:But if you forget the problems with the GPS, the lens cover, the missing transitions, creaking battery cover, lack of RAM and the sluggish response from the UI, it's ok really.🙄 Not a bad first attempt for a company that has just entered the phone business anyway.
I love the way it exposes the supercilious tosers like this one. You would think if you don't like the N97 you would buy something else and get on with your life. Why the need to continually reach and evangelise? I suppose an N97 forum is a bit like a greyhound bus, attracting all the nutters and people with deap seated social problems.
You want perfection? Keep dreaming. It doesn't exist. There isn't a product out there that is good enough to suit everyone.
The N97 was made "a la va-vite". The Nokia's goal was to pertub the iPhone 3GS launch. Today we see who is the winner.
Even if most of people like N97 here, they have to admit that this device is clearly a deception. Like said before, the iPhone don't have the same specifications of n97 but it works! After two updates (V12) my N97 is still bugged. How can you accept that when you pay 700 euros??
If a lot of nokias fans say this phone is a crap it's not a chance, but because it's true...
Unregistered wrote:@buster, a quick search of "exploding battery + nokia" on google will do wonders to avoid you make a foul of yourself again 😉
I presume you meant a fool. Or do you think I was sh*tting myself for some reason?
Of course, the main thing with a Nokia phone is that you can remove the battery and replace it, not something you can do with an iPhone without voiding your warranty. And the problem occurred during charging and not while it was in your pocket; a slight, but nevertheless highly relevant, difference.
And in the same way Apple apologists are saying that Nokia have had X amount of time to sort out problems (which is partly true), Apple have had 2 years to bring out a new, faster iPhone which shouldn't overheat, but unfortunately does. Apple may deny it, but the EU were concerned enough to raise the issue at the highest level...
tkao2025 wrote:Very interesting discussion.....I'm not sure why there is so much anger in these posts.I use an Iphone and it fills my needs. I had used Nokias for many years and did not like the S605v. For me browsing on the Iphone and the # of applications is what I like best about it. Also syncing with Itunes. This is not saying that anyone N97 is crap...it's just that it was not for me.:shakehand
Well said that man (I presume you're a man!). I would never consider an iPhone in a million years, but I do have an iPod Touch which I think is an excellent bit of kit. At the end of the day, these are all outstanding devices, with their own strengths and flaws. Whatever anyone says, the N97 has a lot of potential but was probably launched with unacceptably bad firmware. While many of the problems can be fixed, it's debatable whether anyone who has bought one should have to put up with such an unstable device in the first place.
While Apple's UI skills are probably second to none, it does come at the cost of some basic functionality: there's no Today-style screen, and all you are presented with is a basic grid of icons, which is OK when there aren't too many apps installed, but a nightmare as the number increases. And let's face it, Apple had to increase the speed of the iPhone due to the lask of multi-tasking, as there was too much delay when switching from app to app.
I believe at some point Apple are going to have to address this, or risk going the way of Palm. As other manufacturers bring out better devices, with iPhone-like interfaces, the difference in usablility will become negligible, but other limitations of devices will become more obvious. I mean, let's face it, who wants to have their sat-nav app shutdown just because an email has arrived or someone has rung them...?
I also believe that Nokia are going to have to get their house in order when it comes to the quality of their release firmware, as this seems to be unacceptably poor at the moment. If the geeks/early adopters are unhappy AND the less tech-savvy first-time smartphone buyers start taking their unstable devices back, Nokia could have problems; it takes a long time to build a reputation and only a couple of rubbish devices to lose it.
yeah422 wrote:The N97 was made "a la va-vite". The Nokia's goal was to pertub the iPhone 3GS launch. Today we see who is the winner.
Even if most of people like N97 here, they have to admit that this device is clearly a deception. Like said before, the iPhone don't have the same specifications of n97 but it works! After two updates (V12) my N97 is still bugged. How can you accept that when you pay 700 euros??If a lot of nokias fans say this phone is a crap it's not a chance, but because it's true...
Nokia doesn't have fans. They have customers and end users. People who are fans of profit making businesses are a bit sad.
The phone is not as good as a lot of people wanted or expected, it is disappointing to many but it's not crap. Nokia's goal is not to perturb anything but to sell a lot of phones. One million per month. Nokia have scored their goal. The crazies don't like it and are in denial about it and will clutch straws to discredit the figures.... but in the end it's one million per month for one model of phone out of a range of many phones that are also selling well.
I think it's time to ignore the crazies who are jumping up and down on this thread because the N97 is selling so well. They can't accept it and never will because they have issues.
Crazies, you lose. Now go back to your phallus-operated capacitive screens.
I might as well say it, I don't think yourself, Steve or Tzer are Nokia fanboys but when you listen to Rafe my god... I can easily pull extracts from podcasts as evidence.
I always advise people to visit other tech sites for reviews and so forth before any purchase because if they just followed what is said at AAS then they'll be wasting ���'s or even ����'s on devices. People at AAS don't seem to take into consideration we consumers don't want to waste money on tech that is rubbish or average. Most reviews about any Nokia devices has been overly positive. When have you guys actually ripped into a NOKIA device you found that is poor?
Fair enough you ripped into OVI but how often do you say anything bad about Nokia? I honestly think the article was created because of all the criticism about AAS being bias.
I personally trust reviews from other sites because they seem to be more objective. If a device is bad they say so and not brush it up to make it sound "OK".
Unregistered wrote:I love the way it exposes the supercilious tosers like this one. You would think if you don't like the N97 you would buy something else and get on with your life.
Big talk from Mr.Unregistered (Guest). If Nokia would give me 80% of the purchase price I paid, I would gladly take it. I'm not in the habit of blowing �499 every month or two on a new phone. Although the N97 did make me think of eating a �200 loss on eBay last month I was so sick of it.
You want perfection? Keep dreaming. It doesn't exist. There isn't a product out there that is good enough to suit everyone.
No, there isn't. If it worked as advertised, it would suit me. But it doesn't. End of.
buster wrote:I also believe that Nokia are going to have to get their house in order when it comes to the quality of their release firmware, as this seems to be unacceptably poor at the moment. If the geeks/early adopters are unhappy AND the less tech-savvy first-time smartphone buyers start taking their unstable devices back, Nokia could have problems; it takes a long time to build a reputation and only a couple of rubbish devices to lose it.
Exactly. N95... very buggy on release, N96... best not to talk about it, N97... very buggy on release. Apparently no lessons are being learned, is the N97 really so different from the N95 (or 5800 for that matter) that they couldn't get something stable and quick ready for the launch?