Read-only archive of the All About Symbian forum (2001–2013) · About this archive

The Perception of Nokia

99 replies · 12,116 views · Started 04 September 2009

Unregistered wrote:Nokia doesn't have fans. They have customers and end users. People who are fans of profit making businesses are a bit sad.

The phone is not as good as a lot of people wanted or expected, it is disappointing to many but it's not crap. Nokia's goal is not to perturb anything but to sell a lot of phones. One million per month. Nokia have scored their goal. The crazies don't like it and are in denial about it and will clutch straws to discredit the figures.... but in the end it's one million per month for one model of phone out of a range of many phones that are also selling well.

I think it's time to ignore the crazies who are jumping up and down on this thread because the N97 is selling so well. They can't accept it and never will because they have issues.

Crazies, you lose. Now go back to your phallus-operated capacitive screens.


Ah ah ah.

Nokia, like apple, sony, lg etc have his fans. Thanks to them Nokia have free defenders. It's like that. Don't think all their clients are rationals. If it was the case, they will not buy this phone.

Nokia sell a lot of N97. It's great... for them. Because those who bought this device and have bugs can make a bad reputation and push back many potential users. In my job, I can't recommend this phone due to many issues. Today, brand image is also more important than sells. With a bad reputation you can't sell well. Internet can defeat you.

Regardless of the buggyness of the N97 on release, it did not excite me as a device. The form factor, the OS, the keyboard, none of it was for me. As it happens, no Nokia device is for me at the moment.

My last 7 phones (spanning 8 years) have all been Nokias, and the last 6 were s60. But the last Nokia device that excited me was the N95 (I then went to an N85 for the small improvements at upgrade time, as there was nothing much better out there).

I've just made the switch to an iPhone 3GS, and i'm certainly not looking back. It's just a superior user experience!! I've been envious of certain aspects of the iPhone for a while, but now it has reached the point where the deal-breakers have been removed (camera with video, satnav, slingplayer). Is there anything I miss, not using an s60 phone any more? Not that I can think of... (the camera is the only thing which is obviously inferior, but as long as there is light it is OK, and the video is great. I have a TZ7 for taking proper pictures).

I'm fully expecting to be tempted by a Nokia handset again in a year or two, but only on a mature platform (the first s60v5 devices were always going to be a bit hit-and-miss). Nokia have obviously fallen behind in software/interface.

But regardless, at the moment i'm enjoying that rare feeling of a much anticipated purchase living up to expectations (and then some). (I should point out here: I jailbroke after 1 day, and could not live without having done that, for customisation/unrestriction reasons. It's sad that I had to, but now that it's done i'm happy!)

Let me add my 2 pence worth as a long time Nokia user.

I've used Nokia phones it feels like forever, but I saw early on that touch could really increase my productivity on the phone, so I switched to an I-mate K-Jam, qwerty keyboard and touch screen running WinMo 5.0. It was so clumsy to use & bug ridden that i had to find another phone within 6 months, so I switched to the N95-1 - that was also bug filled and had really poor battery performance until a few firmware updates later.

For the switch to N95 I had to compromise on the touch screen that I knew I wanted way back then and already experienced in hand, but hell I needed a phone that worked 1st so I gave up on trying to make my N95 work with all the bells & whistles and used it for calls, SMS and the odd photo / video only, since then I've ignored every other Nokia product until the N97 hype got to me, I thought this time (2 years on) they have to have got it right and can offer a phone worthy of an upgrade??

Now, 3 years on from my I-mate (touch screen & qwerty keyboard) what do I have in the N97, a great battery, a touch screen that I cannot figure when I need to single press or double press. Minimal on board memory that can only have been implemented as a cost cutting exercise, the sms T9 dictionary completely screwed up so you get stupid words like 'vo' twice instead of 'to', a camera that can't use the dual LED flash because it will cover half the pic, A MfE app that still cannot see anything but the in-box or show HTML email, a keyboard (white) that cannot be used under florescent lighting, NO sip client to connect to company PBX (major backwards step). And again I'm jumping though hoops to make it a usable phone, moving apps from C: to E: and zero widgets on the home screen in the hope of conserving memory - I can see this N97 going the same way as my N95 - phone and sms only, that is if the phone doesn't now drop my calls as I has on a number of occasions!

I am not an Apple fan, I've never used one, but I fail to see how anyone can defended this poor imitation of a "smart phone'. This is a clear case of the accountants in charge since so many of the faults could have easily been solve, an extra 128Mb RAM, what would it have cost??

I am a totally disappointed NOKIA customer and they need to bring a lot more than kinetic scrolling to make me happy with my phone. I don't believe NOKIA didn't know about these issues so that just makes me (a loyal customer) feel like I've waited too long and in the end got shafted.

Sad story, that I still hope will get better soon...

"Also

"I reset my iPhone once a day to avoid memory problems".

You won�t see any 3GS owner saying that. Ever. Shows apple learned the lesson, and put enough RAM on the device. On the N97, what happened? Did Nokia learn?"

The reason you need to reset anything daily to avoid memory issues is due to a memory leak. The memory is not being handled properly (by the OS or apps) and less memory is available over time for the user. Adding more RAM does not fix the problem, it only masks it. Similar to a bad chef placing sauce on burned food.

As far as Apple vs Nokia, I think both have gotten a few things right and both have gotten a few things wrong.

On the subject of the evolution of S60, I had to dust off my old E70 (gull-wing) phone last week, as a temporary solution for my mum while I shopped for a more suitable feature phone for her requirements. (For the record, my mum's 72, and recently had a serious brain haemorrhage which means she has rather specific usability requirements. I got her a Nokia 2680, and customised it to suit. It's working wonderfully for her.)

The E70's UI looked positively antiquated. It was difficult to believe it actually was a smartphone at all. In fact, even the 2680's S40 UI knocks spots off it.

My next phone, the E90 (3rd edition, FP1), was a big step forward from the E70, and the N97's OS improves on that, IMHO. (You'll notice a strong QWERTY theme running through those handsets!) Of course it's not perfect, and there are still plenty of (Nokia and 3rd party) apps that really only have a 3rd edition UI - i.e. they don't take the opportunity to use the standard 5 touch-friendly buttons at the very least, but I live in hope that they will catch up sooner or later. And meanwhile, at least the 3rd edition apps will (mostly) run on 5th edition and are usable, if not especially user-friendly.

Julie

My perception of Nokia is that they have gone downhill drastically, and I can't really see how anyone can defend the decisions they have been making.

Lets start with the hardware - Nokia used to be the cutting edge of hardware, their handsets were constantly in the lead with features, that genrally worked well.

Now, they are being overtaken, especially by Samsung.

Lets look at their flagship device for a minute.

The processor cannot cut it. The RAM cannot cut it. It has massive hardware issues, namely the GPS (this is not a firmware/software problem in many cases) and the camera lens.

What exactly are you getting for �500 odd? Old processor, little RAM - about the only noteworthy things are the keyboard and storage, and thats it.

If your N97 works well for you, all good. But I am growing tired of hearing that now common Nokia mantra - 'It'll get better with the upcoming firmware release.'

You what? It's been out months already, people who have one that's got so many issues are having to wait until it gets this so far mythical FW update to use it as it should be.

So, S60. S60 V5, is it being improved, well not really. Oh yes, we have widgets and various improvements, but where on earth are the things that people have been asking for years ago with S60 V3?

The contacts are still a joke, especially viewing them. And is there calender integration yet? There isn't on my 5800. The calender, that still sucks on S60 V5. A lot of feedback from 5800 users said the calender was very fiddly to use, since they kept it the same size as V3 devices, yet you have to try and touch it.

The only interesting thing about the recent show was the X6, yet my i8910 still beats it in almost every department and it's 7 months old. And yet they are not doing an X6 without CWM. So people with the 5800 wanting an upgrade have to pay an extra 50-70 for something they probably don't want (or possibly already have).

Maemo - great. But thats for the future. Do they really think theres going to be as many initial takers after the failure that was the N97? And when I say failure, I don't mean sales figures, I mean the amount of discontent it has brought to previously loyal Nokia customers.

And the netbook (sorry, mobile laptop, or whatever it's called. Dispite having an atom processor and 10" screen), what on earth is all that about? They say moving to Maemo is so they can have it across various platforms, then they stick windows 7 on the netbook. Eh?

Theres people who are on their 5th N97, and still sticking with it. And people say Apple have fanboys.

The N95 was riddled with issues, and yet Nokia decided not to learn and have repeated the mistake. The N85 was a joke of quality control, and the N97 is also. My local NSC no longer sells N series because they are fed up of the returns.

No, I'm not making any grand statements like Nokia are going to fail, because they won't. They have simply pissed off a load of people that were previously loyal, or at least held them in good standing.

For me, I love my 5800, but really wanted something that was an upgrade, so had to go for a i8910, and, I haven't seen ANY N series that well made.

jared said

"The N95-1? try this: clean boot, launch the camera, exit the camera -> now try to open, say, maps. right you can't. reboot, open maps, exit maps -> now try to launch the camera. right, you can't. The N95 was horribly flawed by too little RAM."

B*ll*cks.

I just tried this on my N95 -1, and had no difficulty whatsoever running both applications. Kind of undermines the rest of your pronouncements.

ab0895 said

"The OS on the N97 is more irritating than anything else".

B*ll*cks.

More irritating than the scratched lens? Or the GPS / Maps combination which places you in the next street, or approaching the roundabout, when you are already round it, and 200yds down the road?

Devices are about 2 things:- WHAT they do, and HOW they do it. All this carp about interfaces! If they don't function correctly, what use are they at all? Only after they function correctly can you decently consider HOW they function.

Nokia have chucked this Alpha product onto the market, taking the p*ss out of their loyal customer base, who are buying Nokia because they have a track record of strong functionality, knowing that the means of delivery will be improved as time goes on.

How they have the cheek to release this dud onto the market with its present defects is beyond belief for a top company.

Imagine what would happen if Ford released a new model onto the market, with steering which pulled to the left all the time, and windscreen wipers which scratched your windscreen. There'd be an outcry, and a recall. Well, they just wouldn't do it.

What is the most irritating thing for me about my �500 purchase from Nokia is the fact that they won't accept their liability for all this.

It takes a long time to establish customer loyalty, but, in today's increasingly fickle customer world, with increasing competition, Nokia are playing a dangerous game with their existing customers. They can no longer be trusted to come up with the goods "out of the box".

Thank God I still have my N95.

Look at the number of products Nokia is launching? They are only bothered about releasing phones. Once they release it, they forget about their old customers.

Nokia has gone pathetic. Period.

Look at other phone companies like Samsung, LG. Look at their quality of phones. They are much better than Nokia ones.

Those who dont like iPhone don't actually realize Iphone OS is much more stable and better than Nokia's Symbian.

Just look at developer support iPhone has. Look at iPhone apps like Yahoo Messenger, Facebook, Skype. Nokia has nothing !!! Absolutely nothing in applications department.

fyi Nokias s60 has yahoo messenger, Nimbuzz works a treat and supports multiple messengers and voip calls. Nokia has a facebook client in any case it does not have to as the web version works quite ok same goes for twitter. Actually they just announced a venture with facebook.

So iPhone OS is better than Symbian OS ? that clearly explains why my Symbian based Nokia 5800 can do so many things at once without blinking while the iPhone OS cannot. I wont even go into battery life or support for higher spec camera to mention but a few.

You have the right to stay deluded.

Enjoy your iPhone.

The iPhone have not extraordinary specifications like N97 but it works!!! Even you're a geek, all you want from a device cost 700 euros is that it works!! It's simple!
The N97 is actually a failure even in using, even if Nokia say they sold 2 millions. Moreover I think that 2 millions wil not be happy about their devices and will not buy Nokias anymore...

Nokia smartphones are getting marginalized in markets like US and Europe where users have access to blackberries, iPhone etc. In places like India, middle east Apple and RIMM don't have the distribution channel of Nokia. Not to mention rival phones are expensive compared to Nokia phones, for instance in Indian market iPhone costs more then N97 and even after that you need to buy a data plan. So N97 "shipped" (not sold) two million unit mostly in Asia because of the distribution network and not due to phone itself.

In my opinion paying customers have all the right to be angry and disappointed, if a product worth 650 EUR is as buggy as N97 was when shipping, and almost as buggy even now after two software updates.

It seems there are, however, Symbian fans who want to understate these problems. Maybe they've got a free testing unit? Maybe they're so techy themselves that they don't even see bugs anymore?

I have used N97 for six weeks and it has made me angry and frustrated for several times. The features are nice, I admit, and I like those widgets and other new enhancements in the S60 touch UI (compared to Nokia 5800 XM).

But in terms of stability and performance, N97 does not yet perform as you'd expect from a smartphone vendor's current flagship product.

Fortunately, apart from the camera lens scratching problems in N97 which are a hardware issue, software problems can be fixed with firmware updates. And as far as I know, Nokia is intensively focusing on this as we speak. I look forward to the 2.0 software update scheduled for October (2009, I hope).

What annoys me is the shameful lack of coverage of the i8910HD on here compared to the amount of attention lavished on the N97. All the more shocking considering it's prominent position amongst S60 devices as possible the best TS device.

Unregistered wrote:Nokia smartphones are getting marginalized in markets like US and Europe where users have access to blackberries, iPhone etc. In places like India, middle east Apple and RIMM don't have the distribution channel of Nokia. Not to mention rival phones are expensive compared to Nokia phones, for instance in Indian market iPhone costs more then N97 and even after that you need to buy a data plan. So N97 "shipped" (not sold) two million unit mostly in Asia because of the distribution network and not due to phone itself.

Wrong. EMEA sales remain strong.

Super Chimp wrote:What annoys me is the shameful lack of coverage of the i8910HD on here compared to the amount of attention lavished on the N97. All the more shocking considering it's prominent position amongst S60 devices as possible the best TS device.

I suspect there are 2 main reasons for that. Firstly, Samsung appear to have been reluctant to distribute units for review, meaning that sites such as AAS had to wait ages to get one. Secondly, and probably far more relevant, is the fact that Samsung have not released any firmware updates (AFAIK), so there is not really much to discuss. Apart from that, AAS was very favourable about the i8910HD.

Mind you, if Samsung want to increase the profile of their devices, they could do with some better names; i8910HD hardly trips off the tongue...

buster wrote:I suspect there are 2 main reasons for that. Firstly, Samsung appear to have been reluctant to distribute units for review, meaning that sites such as AAS had to wait ages to get one. Secondly, and probably far more relevant, is the fact that Samsung have not released any firmware updates (AFAIK), so there is not really much to discuss. Apart from that, AAS was very favourable about the i8910HD.

Mind you, if Samsung want to increase the profile of their devices, they could do with some better names; i8910HD hardly trips off the tongue...

It's had at least two major firmware updates since release as far as I am aware & another is incoming very shortly.

Wow. Nokia sold 1 million phones a month. How many of those 1 million were returned? I know for sure that in the 3 weeks I had mine, there was at least one return. MINE !!!! I am sooo worried that the N900 will be another colossal initial failure.

Unregistered wrote:Wow. Nokia sold 1 million phones a month. How many of those 1 million were returned? I know for sure that in the 3 weeks I had mine, there was at least one return. MINE !!!! I am sooo worried that the N900 will be another colossal initial failure.

My area sold 1200 N95s during August. Returns are higher than most other devices, but still about 1.5%. A total of 18.

Is your definition of a 'colossal failure': "A phone that I don't like even though it is selling like crazy".

Unregistered wrote:Nokia smartphones are getting marginalized in markets like US and Europe where users have access to blackberries, iPhone etc. In places like India, middle east Apple and RIMM don't have the distribution channel of Nokia. Not to mention rival phones are expensive compared to Nokia phones, for instance in Indian market iPhone costs more then N97 and even after that you need to buy a data plan. So N97 "shipped" (not sold) two million unit mostly in Asia because of the distribution network and not due to phone itself.

Another bare-faced lie that someone has dreamed up and posted on the internet. The web is completely devalued by this kind of dross.

RIM: Business-centric. They are niche, but very successful in their area. I do believe that if you had read the information on AAS this would have been clear already.

Apple: iPhone is tied to a single provider with expensive contracts. Nokia sell with a choice of networks a range of phones in various price ranges. They continue to ship millions of phones in Europe.

Nokia: Have never been strong in the USA.

buster wrote:Well said that man (I presume you're a man!). I would never consider an iPhone in a million years, but I do have an iPod Touch which I think is an excellent bit of kit. At the end of the day, these are all outstanding devices, with their own strengths and flaws. Whatever anyone says, the N97 has a lot of potential but was probably launched with unacceptably bad firmware. While many of the problems can be fixed, it's debatable whether anyone who has bought one should have to put up with such an unstable device in the first place.

While Apple's UI skills are probably second to none, it does come at the cost of some basic functionality: there's no Today-style screen, and all you are presented with is a basic grid of icons, which is OK when there aren't too many apps installed, but a nightmare as the number increases. And let's face it, Apple had to increase the speed of the iPhone due to the lask of multi-tasking, as there was too much delay when switching from app to app.

I believe at some point Apple are going to have to address this, or risk going the way of Palm. As other manufacturers bring out better devices, with iPhone-like interfaces, the difference in usablility will become negligible, but other limitations of devices will become more obvious. I mean, let's face it, who wants to have their sat-nav app shutdown just because an email has arrived or someone has rung them...?

I also believe that Nokia are going to have to get their house in order when it comes to the quality of their release firmware, as this seems to be unacceptably poor at the moment. If the geeks/early adopters are unhappy AND the less tech-savvy first-time smartphone buyers start taking their unstable devices back, Nokia could have problems; it takes a long time to build a reputation and only a couple of rubbish devices to lose it.

Well said. I too have many pages of icons on my ipod touch and it is a starting to irritate. I move the more commonly used apps to the front pages but really I would like to be able to have a category view or a list view, I have not used icon view on my computers for the last 10 years and I dislike using it on the touch.

With all the complaints about various phone models, the N97, N95 and iPhone the general public just use them as phones.

A young girl I work with obtained an iPhone on plan one year ago, has one year to go and she says her next phone will not be an iphone. I asked why and she said "I am over it, all I use it for is text and calls, I do not need a phone that does all this stuff I shall go to a cheaper plan next time." Before that she had a razr, actually, several razrs as they kept breaking, every person I know with a razr has had the unit die whilst they were in contract but outside any warranty period.

Actually that raises another issue with plans, people who do not normally care about phones but want a better plan may find themselves with a smartphone because in Australia at least when you move to more expensive plans you can have a more expensive phone included with the plan. I wonder how many people have iPhones or N97s because of this?

Imagine if Nokia released the N97 (or the N95) with the GPS not working, no cut and paste, no MMS and unable to connect to the modern 3G networks. That's what happened with the iPhone.

Imagine Nokia then updated the firmware to get some of these features working. All owners would benefit. Apple released iPhone 2, so iPhone 1 owners lost out.

Imagine then Nokia release a further release correcting all the problems listed above, and adding a few nice new features. All N97 owners benefit! iPhone users - upgrade your phone to a 3GS and accept a longer contract - tie in or lose out.

Of course, these wierdos that like to go to web forums and criticise Nokia would never admit it. Permanent denial. Keep leaking your cash.

Of course, Nokia would never release such a crippled and lame phone as iPhone 1, so with all the functionality there are some bugs. You know that as a Nokia you are not going to be left with phone with features lacking unless you commit to longer contracts. Who the hell wants an iPhone 1?

Some of your criticisms are valid, the 1st gen iPhone however was meant for the American market where the 3G coverage was not great at launch time and many consumers would say is not good now.

oniox wrote:fyi Nokias s60 has yahoo messenger, Nimbuzz works a treat and supports multiple messengers and voip calls. Nokia has a facebook client in any case it does not have to as the web version works quite ok same goes for twitter. Actually they just announced a venture with facebook.

So iPhone OS is better than Symbian OS ? that clearly explains why my Symbian based Nokia 5800 can do so many things at once without blinking while the iPhone OS cannot. I wont even go into battery life or support for higher spec camera to mention but a few.

You have the right to stay deluded.

Enjoy your iPhone.

Dude take a break !!!!

When did u see yahoo messenger for symbian ????

U say 5800 does more things ........ lol did u see the number of applications available for iPhone ?????? I think u live under a cave to realize that .....

Please talk facts .......

You are talking about battery life ????? Try comparing n95 original firmware with iphone .... nokia sucked more ! and iPhone battery lasts 1 day with proper usage ..... the only reason iPhone battery doesnt last is because it is so awesome that people just cant stop using it, unlike ur boring 5800 !!! Good luck on ur 5800 getting kinetic scrolling in full OS!!!!

Unregistered wrote:Imagine if Nokia released the N97 (or the N95) with the GPS not working, no cut and paste, no MMS and unable to connect to the modern 3G networks. That's what happened with the iPhone.

Imagine Nokia then updated the firmware to get some of these features working. All owners would benefit. Apple released iPhone 2, so iPhone 1 owners lost out.

Imagine then Nokia release a further release correcting all the problems listed above, and adding a few nice new features. All N97 owners benefit! iPhone users - upgrade your phone to a 3GS and accept a longer contract - tie in or lose out.

Of course, these wierdos that like to go to web forums and criticise Nokia would never admit it. Permanent denial. Keep leaking your cash.

Of course, Nokia would never release such a crippled and lame phone as iPhone 1, so with all the functionality there are some bugs. You know that as a Nokia you are not going to be left with phone with features lacking unless you commit to longer contracts. Who the hell wants an iPhone 1?

Which is exactly why I waited until the 3GS before getting an iPhone - the "original" iPhone really was quite lame, and the 3G was still too limited.

Unfortunately for Nokia, they are releasing a first generation of s60v5 devices (immature, lack of native touchscreen apps, new(ish) UI) at the same point where Apple have finally got the iPhone about right. Well, as I said above, i've been a Nokia customer for 8 years (and never used as Apple device in my life) and I just moved to an iPhone, so they must be doing something right.

Edit:
Another interpretation of that argument would be that iPhone users (even the 2-year-old iPhone) continue to get major OS upgrades. Nokia have never given a phone a major OS upgrade (e.g. S60v3 fp1 to fp2).

Unregistered wrote:Dude take a break !!!!

When did u see yahoo messenger for symbian ????

http://mobile.yahoo.com/messenger?refer=a00477

Of course you would probably just use Palringo instead which consolidates all your messaging services.

http://www.palringo.com/en/gb/

U say 5800 does more things ........ lol did u see the number of applications available for iPhone ?????? I think u live under a cave to realize that .....

Yeah? Any of them give your camera a flash or allow you Bluetooth transfer between Apple and non-Apple devices?

Please talk facts .......

Pot. Kettle. Black.

You are talking about battery life ????? Try comparing n95 original firmware with iphone .... nokia sucked more !

Nope. The biggest complaint that friends have with their iPhones is that the battery life sucks. I didn't hear any complaints from those of them who switched from N95s when they had them.

and iPhone battery lasts 1 day with proper usage .....

1 day? That's it?

the only reason iPhone battery doesnt last is because it is so awesome that people just cant stop using it, unlike ur boring 5800 !!! Good luck on ur 5800 getting kinetic scrolling in full OS!!!!

Kinetic scrolling is a feature of the later S60v5 models and sure to be ported to the 5800 by firmware update. As for usage, my 5800 is my primary mp3 player, mobile browser and quick camera. Oh yeah... it makes calls and texts too.

The iPhone 3GS is a great phone but let's not get carried away.

Something I still don't understand about Nokia, or maybe it's only S60, is the fact that there seems to be so much difference between devices which are ostensibly the same. Take some of the beta labs apps as an example; many of the apps available (ie. podcasting, Internet Radio to name but 2) are extremely useful, as well as being free, but why are there so many dfferent versions for different handsets, when they are all running the same Os and UI? It can't be that hard to write a generic app which runs on all handsets running the same OS/UI version, which detects the size of the screen and the type of keyboard and simply adapts itself. Instead of that, we get 19 (or however many) different versions of Internet Radio, which all run on specific devices, leaving many devices unsupported.

If Microsoft released software (free or not) which was specific device dependent, it would get a very strange reaction; yes, you can run this program, but only if you have a Dell PC with XP SP2, a US keyboard and a VGA screen.

It's about time Nokia sorted this out, as it gives the impression that every device is unique, when to most users, they appear to be variations on a theme. This device-specificity is probably what causes such launch-day firmware headaches....

And the idea of leaving Podcasting/Internet Radio out of the E52/E55 firmware is simply stupid; are Nokia really daft enough to think that business users NEVER listen to the radio or podcasts on their commute...?

Mr Mark wrote:http://mobile.yahoo.com/messenger?refer=a00477

Of course you would probably just use Palringo instead which consolidates all your messaging services.

http://www.palringo.com/en/gb/

Yeah? Any of them give your camera a flash or allow you Bluetooth transfer between Apple and non-Apple devices?

Pot. Kettle. Black.

Nope. The biggest complaint that friends have with their iPhones is that the battery life sucks. I didn't hear any complaints from those of them who switched from N95s when they had them.

1 day? That's it?

Kinetic scrolling is a feature of the later S60v5 models and sure to be ported to the 5800 by firmware update. As for usage, my 5800 is my primary mp3 player, mobile browser and quick camera. Oh yeah... it makes calls and texts too.

The iPhone 3GS is a great phone but let's not get carried away.

again ...... the link u provided for yahoo messenger doesnt include any symbian version ....... if u had read allaboutsymbian.com regularly, u wud have known by now that yahoo messenger is discontinued for symbian ...... so please dont put useless links ...... the symbian platform is no more a popular developer platform ...... the number of games and applications for iPhone is simply amazing ...... from Yahoo to Google apps to Skype to Nimbuzz ..... u will find everything in iPhone but not for symbian ...... and smartphones are defined by their number of applications ..... otherwise wats the difference between using a sony ericcson walkman or Nokia 1100 and a Nokia N Series phone or Iphone or any other smartphone ?????

yes iPhone doesnt include flash ....... so wat ???? u gotta think that iPhone costs $200 to buy (excluding the contract) ...... which is much cheaper than even the latest symbian phones such as N82 or N85 ...... its a great value of money ...... esp for those who can jailbreak and hacktivate their phones ........

1 day of phone battery is enuf for iPhone ........ unless u live in a cave where electricity is rare or u want to save electricity due to overnight charging ......

yes iPhone has lots of problems ...... but u gotta ask where iPhone stands or N97 stands for example stands ........ u cant ignore the hype and trend iPhone has set ...... and honestly speaking, Nokia cudnt match dat hype after their N95 ......... they are yet playing catch up ...... luk at them just releasing a marathon of new products with little support for existing users ......

Unregistered wrote:again ...... the link u provided for yahoo messenger doesnt include any symbian version ....... if u had read allaboutsymbian.com regularly, u wud have known by now that yahoo messenger is discontinued for symbian ...... so please dont put useless links ......

I use Yahoo Messenger on the 5800xm, there is more than one client available to do that.

Unregistered wrote:
the symbian platform is no more a popular developer platform ...... the number of games and applications for iPhone is simply amazing ...... from Yahoo to Google apps to Skype to Nimbuzz ..... u will find everything in iPhone but not for symbian ...... and smartphones are defined by their number of applications ..... otherwise wats the difference between using a sony ericcson walkman or Nokia 1100 and a Nokia N Series phone or Iphone or any other smartphone ?????

I develop for Symbian, the market is huge. Sales are INCREASING. Doing very well thanks.
Having loads of apps is great for the iPhone, but most of them are different apps doing the same thing, or just useless frivolous apps.

Unregistered wrote:
yes iPhone doesnt include flash ....... so wat ???? u gotta think that iPhone costs $200 to buy (excluding the contract) ...... which is much cheaper than even the latest symbian phones such as N82 or N85 ...... its a great value of money ...... esp for those who can jailbreak and hacktivate their phones ........

That's a barefaced lie. An iPhone in my country would cost the equivalent of $1400 over the length of contract. N82, would be about a quarter of that, the N85 about 1/3 to 1/2.

Unregistered wrote:
1 day of phone battery is enuf for iPhone ........ unless u live in a cave where electricity is rare or u want to save electricity due to overnight charging ......

Or you have an iPhone which is already oversized and a pain in the a$$ to carry about, you need to travel with a charger too? That's very poor.

Are you ("u"😉 having trouble typing? Using an iPhone ouch keypad? If you got yourself a phone with a real qwerty you would find if much easier to type words like "you" and "enough". You would then give the impression that you are literate.

Unregistered wrote:again ...... the link u provided for yahoo messenger doesnt include any symbian version ....... if u had read allaboutsymbian.com regularly, u wud have known by now that yahoo messenger is discontinued for symbian ......

S'funny - I went to the m.yahoo.com site as suggested and am now looking at the Messenger sign in screen. Oh yeah, and see the phone in the bottom right corner of the page? That's an N95.

so please dont put useless links ......

What like the one to Palringo which integrates all your IMs into one?

the symbian platform is no more a popular developer platform ...... the number of games and applications for iPhone is simply amazing ......

Sure is. Just like the number of apps for Symbian.

from Yahoo to Google apps to Skype to Nimbuzz ..... u will find everything in iPhone but not for symbian ...... and smartphones are defined by their number of applications ....

I have Google Maps, Google Mail through e-mail, you tube viewer etc. Oh yeah, I have Nimbuzz too.

yes iPhone doesnt include flash ....... so wat ???? u gotta think that iPhone costs $200 to buy (excluding the contract) ...... which is much cheaper than even the latest symbian phones such as N82 or N85 ...... its a great value of money ...... esp for those who can jailbreak and hacktivate their phones ........

That's great. Get back to me when jailbreaking the phone gives the camera a flash. And please... excluding the contract? 🙄

1 day of phone battery is enuf for iPhone ........ unless u live in a cave where electricity is rare or u want to save electricity due to overnight charging ......

Or you're camping or forgotten your travel adapter or just plain forgot to charge it.

yes iPhone has lots of problems ...... but u gotta ask where iPhone stands or N97 stands for example stands ........ u cant ignore the hype and trend iPhone has set ......

Oh no, I think the iPhone has given the industry the kick up the backside it badly needed. It's been great for everyone whether you have one or not.

and honestly speaking, Nokia cudnt match dat hype after their N95 ......... they are yet playing catch up ...... luk at them just releasing a marathon of new products with little support for existing users ......

I agree they were playing catch up and, to be honest, the N97 leaves me cold. However, the 5800 is an awesome little phone and demolishes iPhone sales everywhere outside the US and Japan. To say Symbian is dead is missing the point.

>>> When did u see yahoo messenger for symbian ????

You probably cant read - Nimbuzz runs on Symbian. Nimbuzz multi IM is a JavaMe application. And yes Symbian supports Java but your incacerated iPhone does not. Go to getjar.com and get educated. Oh did I mention that it runs this IM in the background ?.

>> U say 5800 does more things ........

Evidence that you have no understanding. My 5800 can multitask, I can stream radio and still browse all at once. I can open my email client and still play a game and switch b/w them. I can also listen to my fav FM radio station - oh your expensive toy knows nothing about all these - even �20 PAYG phones at least have FM radio. What kind of a sucker are you ?

>>lol did u see the number of applications available for iPhone ?????? I think u >> live under a cave to realize that .....

Which is your favourite - iFart or iBeer ?. Most of the apps in the App store just replicates what's already on the internet (YouTube, Facebook, Twitter etc). FYI, the web is the killer app. I cant believe ppl will pay for a VAT calculator - I mean a VAT calculator ?; DUMB. I'd rather live in a cave than be stuck in jail. Symbian needs no jailbreak. Its not so cool being schooled by a caveman, is it ?

>> Please talk facts .......

Its not my fault that you just cant reason.

>> You are talking about battery life ????? Try comparing n95 original firmware >> with iphone .... nokia sucked more !

Original firmware ? Well compared to the N95, the original firmware of the iPhone lacked 3G, support for video camera , proper GPS, Copy+Paste, MMS... etc. Grow up !

>> and iPhone battery lasts 1 day with proper usage ..... the only reason >>iPhone battery doesnt last is because it is so awesome that people just cant >>stop using it, unlike ur boring 5800 !!! Good luck on ur 5800 getting kinetic >>scrolling in full OS!!!!

Oh you're so puerile!. Go back to your jail cot.