morpheus2702 wrote:
Next up, you are not AAS. That's a real disservice to Rafe and Ewan.
And specifically to you, Morpheus, I really think you do a huge disservice to AAS by continuing to return and leave rediculous comments like this.
Seriously, why not just stop coming. Delete the bookmark and move on, cos mate you are really starting to get boring!
Oh I'm sorry Pauly, didn't realise I needed your special dispensation in order to post.
Rediculous...
PaulyLaw wrote:And specifically to you, Morpheus, I really think you do a huge disservice to AAS by continuing to return and leave rediculous comments like this.Seriously, why not just stop coming. Delete the bookmark and move on, cos mate you are really starting to get boring!
Actually Pauly, the supercilious, sanctimonious and self important people that frequent here and seem to be on a crusade to tell everyone what they should prefer are providing the entertainment and amusement for me. I would encourage people like Morpheus to keep coming back because the site would be less interesting without them.
Perhaps they could expand and tell us that our choice of car and holiday destination are also wrong. And that I should eat more salami and less sushi.
They frequently suffer humiliation when their selfish opinions are almost always debunked anyway. Perhaps they enjoy the humiliation...although I'm told that there are websites that cater for that kind of thing......
morpheus2702 wrote:Oh I'm sorry Pauly, didn't realise I needed your special dispensation in order to post.Rediculous...
"Ridiculous"
Well Pauly, morpheus has apologised. Are you going to accept?
No no, rediculous
morpheus2702 wrote:No no, rediculous
morpheus2702 wrote:Oh I'm sorry Pauly, didn't realise I needed your special dispensation in order to post.
You certainly don't need my dispensation to post here, that's not mine to give. I am a guest here just like you. I do believe though that all guests in someone elses house should learn some bloody manners.
If you dont like the content, tone or general direction of the site dont come back day after day to insult your hosts, just move on. Dont visit. Leave us poor, deluded souls to our own misguided ways.
Serious Morpheus .. you're boring .. just leave eh!
Yep, that was pretty much a straight rehash of your last post Pauly. Make a sentence from the words 'kettle', 'pot' and 'black' when it comes to being boring.
I don't have a note from the Pope that allows me to post. I do have one from my Mum that let's me off cross country runs. Will that do instead? If not, can I borrow your halo?
Sorry, I'll be a good boy and tow the line from now on. No more redicule here, nossir.
PaulyLaw wrote:You certainly don't need my dispensation to post here, that's not mine to give. I am a guest here just like you. I do believe though that all guests in someone elses house should learn some bloody manners.If you dont like the content, tone or general direction of the site dont come back day after day to insult your hosts, just move on. Dont visit. Leave us poor, deluded souls to our own misguided ways.
Serious Morpheus .. you're boring .. just leave eh!
It's a modern thing for many people to believe that the world revolves around them and that their needs must be everybody else's needs. Personally I don't like iPhones for various reasons, and I really don't like the 'chin' on the HTC hero, but I've never visited an iPhone site or an Android site to tell them all about it. I really don't know what motivates people to do it, but it takes all sorts I suppose.
Just to add my three pennies worth, I am always in termoil about which phone to carry, at the moment I use an E52, a SE W995 and a HTC Hero, I love Nokias and always have to have one but I keep going back to the Hero because it just does everthing and does them well. When I turn the E52 on I love the build and the feel of the phone but I always feel the OS is now so inferior to the Android and as for apps I can find usually for free any app I need.
Still cant give up Nokias totally yet but its getting easier to leave it in the draw.
It's a modern thing for many people to believe that the world revolves around them and that their needs must be everybody else's needs. Personally I don't like iPhones for various reasons, and I really don't like the 'chin' on the HTC hero, but I've never visited an iPhone site or an Android site to tell them all about it. I really don't know what motivates people to do it, but it takes all sorts I suppose.
Well said.
You don't have to agree with a reviewer's conclusions, and I frequently don't, but this perpetual "why don't you call yourself AllAboutNokia" etc. is a bit bl**dy tedious.
PaulyLaw wrote:...Personally (and I am in no way associated with AAS) I wish all you malingering thread hoggers would just p**s off if you dont like the content here, and leave the site to those of us who do.
I respect your opinion and understand your POV but I disagree with them.
There is an easier way AAS just needs to stop allowing unregistered posts... As I mentioned earlier the only reason it's allowed because it generates a lot of traffic. Many visitors "surf by" AAS and read some of the nonsense and bias, provoking a reaction as if AAS articles are deliberately written in that way. Without these users many would just come, realise they can't post and would never visit AAS again because they can't be bothered to register like myself. Their traffic figures would probably drop off quite substantially...
AAS is not all bad they do have some good points. 😊
I just wish they started listening and being more objective.
Perhaps this is the reason they get the reactions they do?
sorry HTC hero owner, but Nokia always has the best out of the box experience, period. Its currently aligning all its efforts into Ovi, which I must say haven't went pretty smooth, but give it time. Android on the other hand, needs to mature 3-4 years, the open handset alliance needs proper time to figure out where its headed, and in that time, they need to sell a bucket loads of phones, set up thousands distribution channels and when they do, Symbian-Nokia-S60-whatever will have make their handsets even better.
I tried out multiple phones from different OS and manufacturer (24 if i recall correctly) and yet my current one is a symbian s60v5, i dont know, s60 matures up quite nicely and it just work well out of the box
By the way Steve, great article. been reading your stuff way back when I still use a P800.
I think most people admit that the iPhone is a better semi-smartphone experience for most users. Lets define that a little. "Semi-smartphone"... because the iPhone is more of a computer accessory + phone, whereases WinMo and Symbian devices function more like independent computers + phone. "Most users" here means people who would like something more than a regular phone. (we all know in reality "most users" would not like either N97 or iPhone).
So. The iPhone provides the best semi-smartphone experience.
S60 provides a better smartphone experience, with many more features.
You cannot compare the two. People who like the iPhone really like the semi-smartphone experience, which is great. People who like WinMo and S60 really like the smartphone experience...which is very different from the semi-smartphone experience.
Where am I going with this?
Android Hero is a smartphone that tries to be more like the semi-smartphone. It is in-between the iPhone and S60. People who really want feature rich smart-phones (ie. AAS staff) will still prefer N97 because N97 features are better. People who want semi-smartphones will still buy the iPhone, because from a UI standpoint, it still can't be beat. But people who want a taste of both...but not as good as either...can buy Android.
However, eventually some manufactureres are going to introduce phones which cost the same as N97, but have feature / performance parity. Then Nokia will be in trouble in the smartphone space because now users will get the best of both worlds.
I think that's a pretty good summary.
And before the iPhone fanboys start getting all defensive, there is one area where Apple have "crippled" the iPhone, and that is in not letting users determine ON THE DEVICE ITSELF what content is present. You can't delete music or photos from the iPhone itself, as this task is reserved for iTunes; this can pretty much render other great aspects of the iPhone useless. If you are out and about and find a nice app to install via the otherwise great on-device App Store app but don't have enough space, you can't make any by deleting music or photos. OK, so you can delete podcasts, videos and other installed apps, but this restriction reinforces the feeling that apple see the iPhone/iPod Touch as computer accessories rather than computers in their own right. This philosophy is very different from Symbian/S60 and WinMo, where the user has almost total freedom to do what he likes on the device itself...
buster wrote:IApple have "crippled" the iPhone, and that is in not letting users determine ON THE DEVICE ITSELF what content is present. You can't delete music or photos from the iPhone itself, as this task is reserved for iTunes; ..
I wasn't aware of that, I find that totally appalling. That's VTech V-Smile level.
I agree with Pauly Law. The site needs cleaning up. We need to reinstate compulsory registration. This will deal with eighty per cent of the rubbishy insulting posts from the complete cowards who don't bother registering but get a kick out of being offensive online with no worries of any comeback whatsoever.
Those who don't like Symbian, don't like S60, don't like Steve, whatever, just enjoy yourselves in the other places where things are so much better.
Williamoni wrote:I agree with Pauly Law. The site needs cleaning up. We need to reinstate compulsory registration. This will deal with eighty per cent of the rubbishy insulting posts from the complete cowards who don't bother registering but get a kick out of being offensive online with no worries of any comeback whatsoever..
What comeback? Registered or not, what possible comeback is there?
How many more million usernames and passwords are we going to need because of these sanctimonious idiots who think that being registered under a banal pseudonym gives them some kind of moral high ground?
You are registered as Williamoni and I still don't know you from Adam. That is equally as cowardous as "unregistered" and twice as pompous.
Registered or not we are all anonymous and there is no "comeback" whatsoever.
The top 3 phones out at this time as noted by a iphone owner on you tube (iphone vs Hero, which iphone wins, just!) are.....1=iphone, 2=hero, 3=palm pre!!! no nokia anywhere, why? cause they are all rubbish. I looked at a n97 and laughed when the clunky thing opened for keyboard, pure junk.
i personally think that both phones are flawed, both manufacturers have played a balancing act with thier hardware and dont bother to put out software that actually works 1st time, as for talk of the n97 as a serious multimedia computer- just imagine windows working in the awful way most new release phones do? i dont think we can compare until all manufacturers grow up and take thier customers more seriously. after all we are paying near pc and laptop prices but get nowhere near as well put together an experience, the proof of the pudding i say shall be the n900!
i have a n95 and its been nothing but trouble, nothing seems to have improved apart from some new functions for newer phones.
as for the reviewers bias, i dont think he is intentionally but i think the proof is here:
"
n97: Processor/RAM 434MHz/56MB free (without Facebook widget) after booting. Speedy for most tasks, you have to hit the N97 with large web pages and multiple widgets to hit the RAM limit and start slowing things down
htc hero: 528MHz/80MB free after booting, speedy for most tasks but slows down as you load up widgets and applications "
the hero clearly beats the n97 but of course the n97 is fast if you dont do anything with it, and yes if you load lots of things on both will slow, but the n97 will slow 1st. (although i would say possibly the heros software is a bit too ambitious for its hardware)
the problem i see with all these phone manufacturers is that they are always holding back,
they could make one phone model that works with everything on it rather than trying to cover every niche and squeeze as much profit as possible.
as i said before compare to a laptop and the end result, you wouldnt for example get the top brand ie: sony shipping out what the top phone brand ie:nokia does.
rant over!
forgot to say that i dont hate nokia, i have used them since the early 90's but i do think as the prices start go up and comparisons to serious pc platforms come about then the companys attitude needs to catch up.
I have never understood the concept to use a qwerty key board that is designed for all finger typing and then miniaturize it where it can only be used with two thumb typing and needs both hands. This is the dumbest most ridiculousness concept I can think of for a mobile phone. It equals the stupidity and clumsiness of using a stylus which I am surprised still exists this far down the track. Using the standard phone key pad with preemptive text is just so much faster and only needs one hand to use it. As a great fan of the N95 which I use most applications extensively for work and personal use, i was extremely disappointed to see the N97 try to "blackberry" it with a qwerty key board and "Iphone" it with touch screen keypad. Really!, touchscreen key pads are just a gimmick and no real advancement on better functionality.
Id like to see more advancement of the standard phone keypad system rather than these backward steps. Rather than copy inferior trends, take the best and make it better i say (good better best, never let it rest, until your good is better, and your better best) John
After using n97 for 3 months and also the hero for a month. I have a clear winner for myself. Some friends also had the same exact feeling, that is the n97 is probably the worst phone ever used and the hero beats it by far. N97 is so buggy that I wanted to throw it in the bin, s60 is one of the most ancient os I have used compare to other competitors... I m so glad that I sold my n97 for the hero.
To add to my comment abv, its not abt hardware spec anymore, it also has to do with the apps and whether they can utilize and be user friendly with new idea and concept. N97 is solidly built w/o a doubt, but with s60 then is the worst piece of scrap on earth. There is noway to compare it with others phones like iPhone, hero, palm pre... I speak from my experience with iPhone, hero, n97 and many other phones...
Williamoni wrote:I agree with Pauly Law. The site needs cleaning up. We need to reinstate compulsory registration. This will deal with eighty per cent of the rubbishy insulting posts from the complete cowards who don't bother registering but get a kick out of being offensive online with no worries of any comeback whatsoever.
Mate, u seem to be those frogs in a well that doesn't realize the world is spinning
I read all rewiews but i couldn't decice what better , wich phone i should bye, somebody pls explain to me to make the correct decision!!!!
and if u think HTC hero is better than n97, tell me then why nokia n97 is on second place on the top lis of the 10 smathhest phonest for 2009
good review, in the sense that its clear and easy to read. to the point, no fluff.
pity you are bais towards the nokia, or didnt reaserch the hero properly.
** for instance: you never mention googlemail on the hero. android is "very" google friendly, it their os after all.
basically, everything you can do on a pc on google.com, the hero got built in.
** also the rom update, fixed ALL lag issues.
thanks
will
Before I got my Hero, I was in a toss up about the BB Bold, the N97 and the Hero. My like for the BB Bold kinda disappeared seeing as it was going to be quite expensive for what it was (mainly because of BlackBerry Connect and the nametag, both of which I didn't need).
But using the N97, I liked it, but again, didn't like the menu system (the same old, boring Nokia menu system). But I liked the widgets and the keyboard wasn't half bad (stupid that the screen remains tilted up, but not exactly a big problem). But there was always something that made me want the interface and the applications of the Hero too.
Then I'd use the Hero, and I loved the interface, great range of applications (even though some of them are incredibly stupid), and it was a great deal quicker (even more so now with the new firmware update). But I still wanted the N97 look and feel, and the lack of a keyboard did bug me a bit.
In the end, I went for the Hero because, like most Nokia products nowadays, the N97 was just too overpriced for what it was, and I'm glad I got the Hero now. Have I looked back? A little bit, then looked forward again. The Hero just has a great range of applications, amazing customization options (thanks to a few applications called Home Switcher, openHome and aHome), incredible social networking options (the ability to have Facebook status updates and Facebook & Flickr photo albums viewable straight from Contacts is amazing), and with the new firmware update feels a great deal quicker than the N97 (and even the iPhone 3GS). I haven't owned an N97, so I can't give a proper comparison from my point of view, but I did own a 5800XM for a few weeks and got rid of it, and from what I could tell the N97 was pretty much the same as the 5800XM, without the widgets.
Annoying bits about the Hero? Well, a short list;
1.) No flash on the camera. Not a big deal most of the time, but for those times that you want to catch something in low lighting, there's no chance.
2.) No bulk folder on Mail. Next to each bulk/spam e-mail you get, it marks '[Bulk]' next to the e-mail, but doesn't put it into a specific Bulk folder for you, and you can't make Smart Mailboxes, so it just means having to delete lots of e-mails every couple of hours.
3.) After using it for a range of different things for a couple of days, it does start to get very slow, and after downloading a task manager (TaskPanel X), I found out that it's because every program you've used in the time you've had it on for stays open. Even the NYTimes application and the Google Finance application stayed open, even though they don't provide any push services, and without the task manager there is no way to close each application 😞.
That's about it. The annoying bits I listed aren't anything to consider not getting the phone about, but I had to think of at least a few annoying bits about it. While it may not be exactly a detailed review or anything, it's my opinion of it. If you do get it and need any help, feel free to ask 😉.
It just seems to me the Nokia's S60 5th edition is just replacing hardware buttons with on screen buttons. The N97 or 5800 Xpressmusic is a good example. The 'select' and 'exit' buttons are still at the bottom of the screen or on the side if in landscape mode; like the E90 when using the internal screen.
I assume that most of us complain about Windows Mobile due to the fact that it has fixed functions like those 2 controls for 'select' and 'exit' for example. A developer can choose not to use it but code in a way that the controls below are not being used. However, your application still does not take up the full screen. There will be a blank 'bar' below without words. Unless you create an application in another coding language, you won't be able to escape those buttons below.
All in all, whats the use of having touch based software or rather, a touch screen phone if you're stuck to those buttons? There is no freedom in creating applications to suit the end user. Having a QWERTY keyboard is a great example. If the N97 has a QWERTY keyboard and no fixed 'select' and 'exit' buttons, it'll make more sense. We all agree that hardware QWERTY is better than software QWERTY. Doesn't the same concept apply to those 'select' and 'exit' buttons? Why make it software when hardware is better? It's redundant!
Now, to why Steve's review might be biased is not because this is an 'allaboutsymbian' website. To me, it's because Android's OS is relative new, and improving at an acceptable pace. Other users who commented due to the website should clarify that.
Lets take S60 way back to it's release date and compare it's functionality to the day Android OS is released. Just like any operating system, it need's improvement. There is no perfect operating system. Given S60's long development history and improvements, common sense should tell you that it should be somehow better than Android's new operating system. Based on the era now, all of us want everything on a mobile phone. We couldn't live for a week without our phone, yet to say a day. We grumble about the slightest lag the phone produces and make a huge fuss when an application out of all others crashes.
Be realistic. We have to be patient with Android's OS. S60 came a long way but still, so many things are still the same, just like Windows Mobile; 6.1 to 6.5. It's like Windows Vista SP1 to SP2. The buttons are still the same, just that they are not hardware anymore. The home screen is changed to hold widgets instead of the standard quick launch, to-do list and calendar. The menu is still the same, except the icons are changed to look more updated.
I've used my Nokia E90 for 3 years and I loved it. I recently bought the HTC Hero and switched to it for a change. (I'm still keeping my E90. The best I have so far in 20 years.) The hardware of the E90 beats the Hero hands down. Software wise, both have the pros and cons. I personally prefer Android's UI (not because of Sense UI) as compared to S60's UI. However, for the argument on the online application stores, Android's Market is better in my perspective. Ovi store must improve more. I could not download a simple app like Windows Live Messenger as it states it's not compatible with E90 when it used to be before in 'Download!'. Updates are only done separate on each application alone and you have to access the it or check it's website for an update; unlike Android's application updates which consolidates all the applications you've downloaded and checks for updates.
In conclusion, S60 is still a better operating system as compared to Android's operating system today. But take it back to the date when S60 is first released in 2001 and Android's release in 2008; if both are released together at the same time, Android is the clear winner.
I'm just disappointed that despite so many years of R&D for S60, the improvements are not significant until iPhone was released and suddenly, so many phones are becoming touch screens and coming out with all sorts of UI and giving names like S-Class, TouchWiz, TouchFlo, etc etc.
Give Android some time. I'm sure Google will do it's job to keep improving Android. Be patient. (:
I'm fed up with the N97 and am going to buy a hero. N97 : brilliant hardware, crap operating system that just is not being updated quick enough. Android here I come!