Over at N97 Fanatics, Kyron's put up a lovely tech walkthrough of the improvements in the Nokia N97's firmware for the upcoming v20 release. Though there are a few things he wasn't allowed to mention, he does cover memory, performance and stability issues.
Read on in the full article.
So let's get this right
[INDENT]Less Ram than v12 (~45 on V20 vs ~57 on V12) but optimised better
No extra C drive memory
No Skype
No Internet Radio
No latest Quickoffice
No Camera Improvements
No Battery Improvements
No GPS improvement
Theme Effects, not fixed or extras added
Call log bug fixed (only taken 3 years)
Maps 3.0
Kinetic Scrolling everywhere
Ovi Contacts
[/INDENT]
Nevermind N97 owners, by next June you might get the device you paid for......
Hey, less sarcasm! 8-)
In Nokia's defense (someone's got to do it):
>>Less Ram than v12 (~45 on V20 vs ~57 on V12) but optimised better
Not comparing apples with apples. The 45 will be with Facebook and Accuweather installed on homescreen. Actual RAM will be similar overall, but better used.
>>No extra C drive memory
Yes, disappointing. Again, let's hope it's better used.
>>No Skype
Will be released as a standalone install, I reckon. So retrofittable to all other S60 5th Edition phones.
>>No Internet Radio
8-( What IS up with this, Nokia?
>>No latest Quickoffice
Limited by licensing agreements, I think. Wish the lawyers would pull their finger out though. Agreed.
>>No Camera Improvements
I bet there are. Just not noticed in this write-up.
>>No Battery Improvements
Battery is already fine. (if you don't use -spit- Nokia Messaging push email)
>>No GPS improvement
Hardware problem. Faulty aerials on early units.
>>Theme Effects, not fixed or extras added
Just say no.
>>Call log bug fixed (only taken 3 years)
Woohoo!
>>Maps 3.0 , Kinetic Scrolling everywhere, Ovi Contacts
All good things?!
The problem with this "hands-on": It is not allowed to tell what's in there but mentions all things that aren't. Spiced up with some speculation what might be added for the final version. A perfect road to disappointment. Let's wait for a full review of the v20 offical release!
Pathetic.......
The sad thing about this is that THIS is supposed to be the production firmware released with the phone rather than an upgrade and you still have the usual apologists (at least they admit it now) making excuses. Ratkat is spot on. The N97 is reason enough for people to run scream away from the N97 Mini. Why get screwed over twice?
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/FTC-Bloggers-must-disclose-apf-468964868.html?x=0&.v=2 (Hmmmm...... I wonder how this will affect things)
sapporobaby wrote:Pathetic.......http://finance.yahoo.com/news/FTC-Bloggers-must-disclose-apf-468964868.html?x=0&.v=2 (Hmmmm...... I wonder how this will affect things)
Should shut a few people up when they are finally proved wrong. Of it would if it wasn't Fed Trade, US only.
I am hoping that the N97mini will supplant my 5800 as the best phone, based on real world practicality instead of nurdy specs.
Why do people assume the roof has fallen in when their own personal requirements are not met?
Steve, I think I'm entitled to be a little sarcastic.
I was one of the mugs who paid �500 for it on the day of release.
And yes I know, buying a Nokia at launch is always fraught with danger, I have owned many of the Symbian devices over the years, most from launch, but I wasn't prepared for quite how flawed the N97 would be.
Nokia ruined the N97 themselves by restricting the amount of Ram/c drives space, a lesson they really should have learnt with the original N95, and even further back with the 6680.
It is a Shame really that Symbian has taken a lot of flack over the N97, Symbian is still in my view the best mobile operating system, but the s60 user interface is stuck in 2006 (or even 2002, it really hasn't changed that much since the 7650), and it is that people use to base their views on.
My N97 found a new owner on Ebay, and I hope the new owner enjoys it.
And me? along with my sarcasm, I walk away �240 lighter, and my faith in Nokia severly damaged.
"Nokia ruined the N97 themselves by restricting the amount of Ram/c drives space, a lesson they really should have learnt with the original N95, and even further back with the 6680."
Could there be a logical reason for that? I know, a wild thought..
Nokia has quite a history with devices flawed at the beginning: My 6680 had terrible problems with 3G connections (partly fault of the operators too), my N95 ran out of power and memory far too soon (browsing was horror at the beginning) and my N97 is being repaired now with camera glass scratches, touch screen issues, rattling parts inside and firmware glitches. (The worst so far.)
But they always managed to iron things out, finally delivering great devices. Maybe this is just the price to pay as an early adopter. Hope the N97 will follow the footsteps of the N95 soon.
(This is also one of the reasons why I would not switch to a N900 now. 😉)
You're overblown expectations?
That you were an early adopter that paid too much from the start without doing research?
Or that you're possibly a fanboy that trolls here?
The phone itself has been quite good since v12. It's quite a decent upgrade over my N95-3 in actual day-to-day useability:
real keyboard
bigger screen
new browser
better connection manager
better video playback
better radio app
better widgets
new homescreen
more built-in mass storage
better BT connection
FM transmitter (awesome when used for Garmin and MP3 player)
And the list goes on and on. And my N95-3 (v20) did reset itself once in a while, annoyingly, when accessing the microSD card, on top of other annoying problems. And yet the whole world was jumping up & down and doing cartwheels about it until the iPhone came out. So please stop whining. These phone all have their problems that never went away.
What's disappointing in the article is that he didn't put real numbers about the phone memory, which makes everything on this topic look suspect.
It looks like I can finally pull out the Maps 3.0 upgrade out of Phone memory.
I don't give a rats a** about kinetic scrolling everywhere, but I'm actually just hoping for a few things:
*plug RAM leaks - I permanently lose ~15MB everyday using only built-in apps that can only be recovered with restart
*keylock/USB charger bug - this still exists in v12, but not as severe as before
*better browser cache management - can we move the cache location somewhere else?
*Java Runtime moved away from ROM make more room for the upgrades
*Make all built-in connected apps use the Default Internet connection option (e.g. Podcasting app still use obsolete system for auto-update)
*Dump Real Player for a real video player - can somebody in Nokia just help CoreCodec team finish CorePlayer?? My N95-3 used to be able to player VGA AVI files w/o conversion just fine in CorePlayer.
I'll be so happy with this phone if these simple problems go away.
Unregistered wrote:You're overblown expectations?
That you were an early adopter that paid too much from the start without doing research?
Or that you're possibly a fanboy that trolls here?The phone itself has been quite good since v12. It's quite a decent upgrade over my N95-3 in actual day-to-day useability:
real keyboard
bigger screen
new browser
better connection manager
better video playback
better radio app
better widgets
new homescreen
more built-in mass storage
better BT connection
FM transmitter (awesome when used for Garmin and MP3 player)And the list goes on and on. And my N95-3 (v20) did reset itself once in a while, annoyingly, when accessing the microSD card, on top of other annoying problems. And yet the whole world was jumping up & down and doing cartwheels about it until the iPhone came out. So please stop whining. These phone all have their problems that never went away.
What's disappointing in the article is that he didn't put real numbers about the phone memory, which makes everything on this topic look suspect.
It looks like I can finally pull out the Maps 3.0 upgrade out of Phone memory.
I don't give a rats a** about kinetic scrolling everywhere, but I'm actually just hoping for a few things:
*plug RAM leaks - I permanently lose ~15MB everyday using only built-in apps that can only be recovered with restart
*keylock/USB charger bug - this still exists in v12, but not as severe as before
*better browser cache management - can we move the cache location somewhere else?
*Java Runtime moved away from ROM make more room for the upgrades
*Make all built-in connected apps use the Default Internet connection option (e.g. Podcasting app still use obsolete system for auto-update)
*Dump Real Player for a real video player - can somebody in Nokia just help CoreCodec team finish CorePlayer?? My N95-3 used to be able to player VGA AVI files w/o conversion just fine in CorePlayer.I'll be so happy with this phone if these simple problems go away.
What's disappointing is that this upgrade is nothing special. This was to be the production software rather than the beta that every N97 is running. To simply dismiss the current dismal state of Nokia phones puts you in some pretty good apologetic company. The problems that have surfaced with the N97 are things that Nokia could have and should have caught in testing or before mass production. To expect consumers to pay this much for an almost fatally flawed device is a slap in the face. To make apologies and excuses for this ineptitude on Nokia's part is even worse and shows a willing to accept substandard performance. Customers have a right to expect quite a bit for their money. In short, Nokia did not deliver the goods at launch and they are not delivering it now.
I chose the N86 over this as I knew it would have it's problems, and I'm so glad I did. Mine still has new bugs with V.20. I have to agree, rather than churn out handset after handset, Nokia needs to rather concentrate more on Firmware and getting it right. By doing so would vastly increase customer satisfaction and lead to less handsets being returned after the first month of release.
The Mini will likely be more stable than the N97, which unfortunately many will feel has been released as more of a test device. I'll wait for the N98 or successor before I decide to buy a Nokia Flagship device...
sapporobaby wrote:What's disappointing is that this upgrade is nothing special. This was to be the production software rather than the beta that every N97 is running. To simply dismiss the current dismal state of Nokia phones puts you in some pretty good apologetic company. The problems that have surfaced with the N97 are things that Nokia could have and should have caught in testing or before mass production. To expect consumers to pay this much for an almost fatally flawed device is a slap in the face. To make apologies and excuses for this ineptitude on Nokia's part is even worse and shows a willing to accept substandard performance. Customers have a right to expect quite a bit for their money. In short, Nokia did not deliver the goods at launch and they are not delivering it now.
How does "fatally flawed" sell a million per month? I don't understand your vitriol, if I felt like you I would buy another phone and forget Nokia. Not spend every other day slagging them on forums.
They are not delivering for you and your requirements. They deliver for mine, their products (whilst not perfect) are more suitable for me than any other, if there was a better suited device for me from another manufacturer then I would be using it. I have no brand loyalty.
I'm not apologising for Nokia, I couldn't give a sh*t about Nokia. But I do understand that the world doesn't revolve around me and my needs.
What made the post apologetic? I didn't rave about the N97, I just said it was a decent upgrade over my N95-3, and to my viewpoint, that perspective still holds. And I ended it off saying that I would be so happy with the phone if these simple PROBLEMS went away, On top of that, I managed to list some real problems with the phone that should make ppl think twice before plunking cash down on it (poor RAM management, buggy keylock/charger, crappy browser settings, etc).
What I do find quite stupid/pathetic about your remark is how emotional it was you feel ripped off. And then not list what went wrong from your viewpoint. It seems childish, irrelevant, and not useful. Just do your appropriate research and vote with your dollars/euros/quids. I just happened to buy my N97 at quite a discount after months of research/watching, figuring that market forces will force the price down and force Nokia to address the problems, and found quite a value so far. Sheesh, so sorry that you got screwed....
Unregistered wrote:How does "fatally flawed" sell a million per month? I don't understand your vitriol, if I felt like you I would buy another phone and forget Nokia. Not spend every other day slagging them on forums.They are not delivering for you and your requirements. They deliver for mine, their products (whilst not perfect) are more suitable for me than any other, if there was a better suited device for me from another manufacturer then I would be using it. I have no brand loyalty.
I'm not apologising for Nokia, I couldn't give a sh*t about Nokia. But I do understand that the world doesn't revolve around me and my needs.
I do not think we are talking about needs but about defects that leave the factory. Unlike you I do happen to care about Nokia and like them to succeed. Currently they are not meeting my needs and selling a million devices but having half a million returned is not a true measure of a device and how the public is getting on with it. As for buying another phone, I did but at the end of the day if Nokia had simply delivered the basics of a functional phone that did not need 3 or more upgrades to make it the device it was intended, I would have no problems with shelling out a few hundred Euros. I make plenty of money so purchasing a device is not an issue. Paying for what I get is. I do not expect a perfect device by any stretch of the imagination but damn, a scratched lens cover, c: drive ram problems, phone lock buttons.... Come on. Are you kidding me? This is Design Engineering 101.
By the way, have I told you how to spend your time and which forums to frequent? I am pretty sure I know where you hang out and how many 17K plus posts you have soooooo if anything I have said is incorrect, I kindly invite you to prove me wrong and I will admit that I am wrong in these "forums" you didn't mention.
Unregistered wrote:What made the post apologetic? I didn't rave about the N97, I just said it was a decent upgrade over my N95-3, and to my viewpoint, that perspective still holds. And I ended it off saying that I would be so happy with the phone if these simple PROBLEMS went away, On top of that, I managed to list some real problems with the phone that should make ppl think twice before plunking cash down on it (poor RAM management, buggy keylock/charger, crappy browser settings, etc).What I do find quite stupid/pathetic about your remark is how emotional it was you feel ripped off. And then not list what went wrong from your viewpoint. It seems childish, irrelevant, and not useful. Just do your appropriate research and vote with your dollars/euros/quids. I just happened to buy my N97 at quite a discount after months of research/watching, figuring that market forces will force the price down and force Nokia to address the problems, and found quite a value so far. Sheesh, so sorry that you got screwed....
My mistake if I jumped on your post without reading it all through. I stand corrected. After going back and reading it, I see your points. Next time I will slow down to read ALL of it instead of a few snippets and coming to the wrong conclusion. My bad.
sapporobaby wrote:By the way, have I told you how to spend your time and which forums to frequent? I am pretty sure I know where you hang out and how many 17K plus posts you have soooooo if anything I have said is incorrect, I kindly invite you to prove me wrong and I will admit that I am wrong in these "forums" you didn't mention.
No you haven't told me how to spend my time and which forums to frequent. That's a strange question to ask me.
Because I haven't told you how to spend your time and what forums to frequent. Nor did I say that anything was incorrect.
What a nutter.
Your words: How does "fatally flawed" sell a million per month? I don't understand your vitriol, if I felt like you I would buy another phone and forget Nokia. Not spend every other day slagging them on forums.
Do they seem familiar? Check out the "not spend every other day slagging them on forums" part.
Case closed. Either way, nothing you can say or anyone else can prove that me and others who happen to like Nokia feel let down by the recent (3 years actually) that we as customers are going through, and it is our right to be a bit annoyed at paying top Dollar, Euro, Yen, Dinar for substandard performance and then having some make constant excuses and apologies for this. Leave the excuses and apologies to Nokia, where they belong.
sapporobaby wrote:Your words: How does "fatally flawed" sell a million per month? I don't understand your vitriol, if I felt like you I would buy another phone and forget Nokia. Not spend every other day slagging them on forums.Do they seem familiar? Check out the "not spend every other day slagging them on forums" part.
.
Yes, familiar. My words, they are where I mentioned what I would do, in order to explain why I don't understand the vitriol. "What I would do", not "telling you what to do".
Check out "if I felt like you I would" part.
Duh!
sapporobaby wrote:Case closed. Either way, nothing you can say or anyone else can prove that me and others who happen to like Nokia feel let down by the recent (3 years actually) that we as customers are going through, and it is our right to be a bit annoyed at paying top Dollar, Euro, Yen, Dinar for substandard performance and then having some make constant excuses and apologies for this. Leave the excuses and apologies to Nokia, where they belong.
I have never attempted to prove that anybody doesn't feel let down. There isn't a product on sale anywhere that doesn't have disappointed customers. I don't deny your right to be annoyed either, just said I don't understand it.
I, on the other hand, am happy with the N97 (I haven't suffered any of the faults people mention). But as I said before, the world doesn't revolve around me.
As for being correct or incorrect, ("I kindly invite you to prove me wrong and I will admit that I am wrong"😉 can you back up this statement:
"selling a million devices but having half a million returned"
"No GPS Improvements"
from TFA
"We did a quick test to see if there was any difference in both time it takes to get a GPS lock and how well that lock is held. We launched the camera app on both devices at the same time with geotagging enabled from inside the coffee shop where the meeting took place (we were sitting next to the window if it matters to you). The v20 firmware was able to get a GPS lock faster than the v12 firmware (which after 3 minutes, never actually got a lock) but it lost it within a minute. Google Maps was getting a GPS lock instantly on v20 from inside the coffee house however. Take that however you wish"
To be fair, if they are testing the v20 firmware on a later n97 without the aforementioned hardware fault, and v12 on a release model n97 with the hardware fault this result would be expected. My n97 (only a few months old) has no probs getting a gps fix in seconds.
That does it for me. Time to say goodbye to my seriously flawed N97.
A slap in the face from Nokia for being a long time customer. Scratched lens... poor gps... c drive space... plasticky build quality... shall I continue?
No one to blame but myself for buying this device.
** Sits quietly in the corner, fondling his i8910, giggling at the N97 owners regretting their choice. **
😉
Got my N97 earlier this week, I must say out of all the N Series devices I have owned (N70, N73, N95, N95-8GB, N96), I find it great, the battery last longer than a day! So that's a big benefit.
No crashes, the S60v3 apps all work on this phone as well as obviously the v5 apps&games.
I have only had it a little while, but when opening & closing shutter for camera I am being careful not to press to hard&ensuring that there is no grid on it when doing so.
Loads of memory - 32gb?! So I have still got 20gb left, gonna put some movies & bbc i player pograms to watch on it when travelling, all in all really pleased with it.
JohnnyN wrote:I chose the N86 over this as I knew it would have it's problems, and I'm so glad I did. Mine still has new bugs with V.20. I have to agree, rather than churn out handset after handset, Nokia needs to rather concentrate more on Firmware and getting it right. By doing so would vastly increase customer satisfaction and lead to less handsets being returned after the first month of release.The Mini will likely be more stable than the N97, which unfortunately many will feel has been released as more of a test device. I'll wait for the N98 or successor before I decide to buy a Nokia Flagship device...
N900 then?
would like to see same amount free space on c: as on n97mini which has ~240mb free after hard reset.
VOIP(SIP) call support.
PDF reader. My old N95 can read PDF, the N97 cames with a trial PDF reader....