Sometimes I think that convergence has gone too far and that modern smartphones are just too complex for their own good. And then I think 'Nah, manufacturers and networks just need to seed devices with bloggers and power users like you and I to help with testing before unleashing devices on the general public'. Witness the reported withdrawal of the Nokia N97 from Vodafone and Sony Ericsson Satio from the Carphone Warehouse after high returns and plenty of issues. Ah, life on the bleeding edge, it's not for the faint-hearted or for the great unwashed...
Read on in the full article.
I think its about time Nokia hired some professional beta testers and stopped making a guinea pig out of early adopters.
I bought the N97 on the day it was launched, "upgraded" from XM5800. It has been nothing but trouble for me the past few months. I even sent it back to Nokia to replace the scratched camera lens after reading Steve's advice here at AAS. You know what's the biggest bummer? The lens scratched again after a few days of use. I had to wait 3 weeks for the repairs and the lens scratched again in a few days.
The build quality is lousy, GPS was replaced as well, but I didn't see much improvement so stopped using it altogether. The phone is unresponsive and slow, even after I upgraded to v20 firmware. The kinetic scrolling is a joke - it would sometimes be so slow that I don't see the point of having it in the first place. My phone crashed on me 3 times the past few weeks. At first I thought it was because of the games I purchased from Ovi. I had done a few resets, but it crashed again after the last reset with nothing installed.
From my experience, Nokia went a long way down from the days when I owned an E61, then subsequently E71. My XM5800 was also fraught with problems. It seems to me that Nokia is not paying attention to quality these days.
Sorry for the rant. It's just that seeing the news about Vodafone giving up N97 just triggered some response in me. The first thing that came to my mind was - "no surprise there".
Anyway, I think I've finally made up my mind to try the iPhone. I have used a Nokia since 1997, but my last 2 devices have just not been satisfactory given the amount of money I put into them. The latest N900 did not seem like a good proposal to me as well. I haven't used an iPhone before, so it is an entirely new experience. I suppose I'll probably not be reading AAS anymore after I switch to iPhone.
So long...
To see what has become of nokia is very upsetting to me. I have long been a nokia phone user and I am sad to say that they have fallen behind drastically. Phones are like cars and must evolve with the trends. Nokia is like GM, fighting to stay relavent after ignoring the changing trend of customer needs.
Listen to your customers. In today's world, less is more. The days of pumping out 5-10 models, e,n, x series phones is over. In the smartphone world, quality, reliability rule, not quantity. The phones they have produced are rehashes of past success. The iPhone has changed the game as the n95 did once. Android is changing the game further. And apps are now the main body of a smartphone.
My advice, ditch the resistive screens, save them for markets like china where character entry is relevant. Make 2-3 phones with excellent build quality, feature rich but with good, stable software. 1 global for touch screen phones and 1 for regular handsets. This will facilitate app dev as it is lacking and if not scattered over s60 and 5 different ft packs. With ovi store in place, work with dev to bring all if not most apps to one place. Work with them, take suggestions and create a app store that is relevant, up to date and mostly easy to use.
Issue firmware updates to all phones, world wide at the same time. There is no darn reason my n95 8gb(nam) is stuck at v20 firmware while euro and others have v31 or higher. Globalize your nokia care centers ( a nokia is a nokia).
I could go on and on. But all falls on deap ears. You guys at aas do a great job but if things don't change. You'll be taking about s40 regular phones soon. The public is aware and not excepting or forgiving as once before. Nokia, wake up and get your heads out your asses.
So, Vodafone went from the N97 to the N97 Mini?! Doesn't seem like much of a lack of confidence in Nokia to me.
I gave up on Nokia I'm afraid, once Series 80 bit the dust. How I still yearn for an S80 device that is 3G and runs faster. Nothing would beat it!
I tried the E61i and it was ok but S60 is just not cutting it for serious use and trying to ape the iphone by bolting touch onto S60 is not a good move in my view. No-one does touch like iphone so why try to copy them???
Better to concentrate on making quality keyboarded phones imho with a quality solid os (like s80!?!). Even more so now that everyone and his dog wants to be on sites like Facebook and Twitter!
Greetings from portugal, i've also owned many nokias, e61i,e90,e71,5800,n97 but the lack of quality in 5800,n97 and the need of a e90 sucessor that never came made me change to omnia hd,great hardware and great os , nothing of that i-bullshit, maemo is good for pc like experience but not for phone/smartphone mainly because the lack of applications.
"I think its about time Nokia hired some professional beta testers and stopped making a guinea pig out of early adopters."
Nokia have a strong network of beta testers. The problem is that having a dedicated team of beta testers and actually listening to them are two different things.
Let me share my experince with you pertaining to the Satio. Have been using it for the past 5 days now. It has crashed, hung or whatever you may wish to call it on numerous occasions. I just have to remove & reinsert the batt & switch it on again. I think is a software related issue which can be resolved with an upgraded version. As expected with any new so-called "smart" phone & especially when this is a new OS to SE. What boggles me is this: Sony E & other manufacturers for that matter should have tested their phones thoroughly before launching it into the market. With a shrinking market share, they can ill afford to launch a half baked phone so to speak. They never seem to learn from their past mistakes. The P990i in 2006 & the X1 earlier this year were a complete disaster.
I am eager to see how the X10 fares as Andriod is another foreign OS to them.
I have been a Symbian OS user for a good number of years & predominantly Nokia N series phones. I still have my N86 8mp & 5800 phones. It is still a good OS & maybe I am biased by saying this as I am so used to the OS. The downside is that Symbian apps tend to be exobitantly expensive. This is where the iphone wins, their apps are cheap but then again a lot of them are garbage. I am using a 3GS as my primary phone & the Satio as my secondary phone. From the functionality point of view, the 3GS as a phone is crap. It has many shorcomings which I am sure most of you know what I am referring to. I have always say & I will say it again: "When you use an iphone you must have a second phone to compliment it." I have used Winmo (HTC Touch & SE X1) & swear that I will never touch it again until they come up with a more user-friendly OS.
Coming back to the Satio, the touchscreen is not as sensitve as it should be & you have to be pin-point accurate. No doubt a stylus is provided but is not built-in. I am still a firm believer in Symbian OS despite all the hype about the forthcoming Maemo OS. I am quite sure it will have its fair share of issues when it is launched. It will take time to develop new apps for Maemo. Phone manufacturers are rushing out new models in order to compete & outdo each other with more sophisticated features. What do we expect when we as clients demand more & more functions out of a mobile phone. Manufacturers will try to cramp as many functions (short of a kitchen sink) as possible into it. As such the phone becomes more complicated. A trouble free phone is a no frill phone like the basic Nokia 2 & 3 series. Samsung is almost announcing a new model every other week. So much so that I just cannot keep up with it. Up till now I just cannot figure out how they categorise their models like Nokia you have the 2,3,5,6,7,8 & N series. Mind you, I have own only 3 Samsung's phones up till now. The first phone was their 1st. 3.2mp camera flip phone / P850 in 2006 (there is no provision for "save in draft" in sms) & the 2nd. one was the F480 touch screen in 2008. (Touch screen was so unresponsive & camera was well below par) My 3rd. phone as recent as June this year which was the dual sim phone / C5212. (Chinese made dual sim phones work better than the Samsung ones) All these phones never lasted more than a month before I sold it.
At the end of the day there is no such thing as a "perfect" phone in this imperfect world. Even we humans are not perfect after all!! I must also add that there are phones which are slightly more perfect than others.
As someone has already alluded to here, it isn't due to a "problematic phone" more Vodafone wanting to make efficiencies within its handset range.
Why carry 2 VERY similar handsets at VERY similar pricepoints?
Storage capacity and the ability to use buying power to bring the price down also come into it.
just to echo all the previous comments, a customer rep was kind enough to break open a new Satio in an Orange shop and whilst the camera, vga recording etc were spot on (Steve isn't the only one who thinks a Xenon flash is important!) the device was slow and the interface was truly awful,
at least the C905 is stable now, the Satio is shockingly bad
as for Nokia, I've finally given up on them, the N95 was a true classic but everything since then has been down hill or just disappointing, nothing in the pipeline shows any light at the end of the tunnel
every release of iPhone OS/Android et al is improving the overall package for their phones, where has Symbian gone (from the end user perspective) since the N95 ?
a disappointed Symbian, Nokia and SE fan (all the way back to Psion Sienna and MC218 aka 5MX)
Unregistered wrote:As someone has already alluded to here, it isn't due to a "problematic phone" more Vodafone wanting to make efficiencies within its handset range.Why carry 2 VERY similar handsets at VERY similar pricepoints?
Storage capacity and the ability to use buying power to bring the price down also come into it.
Surely those two points you have made there, lean towards Vodafone sticking with the original N97. Cost of changing marketing, advertising, updating their systems etc would have potentially have cost more by moving over to the Mini.....:con? Especially as it was theoretically an unknown entity in terms of reliability at the point in time they decided to pull the trigger to sell the Mini.
Better the devil you know than the devil you don't.
Or maybe, they said, "The N97 is such a pile of tosh, the Mini can't be any worse".
Unregistered wrote:As someone has already alluded to here, it isn't due to a "problematic phone" more Vodafone wanting to make efficiencies within its handset range.Why carry 2 VERY similar handsets at VERY similar pricepoints?
Storage capacity and the ability to use buying power to bring the price down also come into it.
You are correct, but most people wouldn't let a fact like that stop them from having a dig at Nokia. The mini is the phone that the N97 should have been.
Unregistered wrote:every release of iPhone OS/Android et al is improving the overall package for their phones, where has Symbian gone (from the end user perspective) since the N95 ?
Well, if I look at my N95 - even with a recent firmware update - and my brand new E72, I'd see:
feature pack 2 - slicker animations, internet radio, remote drive support, more rational options for access points.
e series additions, over and above my N95, like multiscanner, improved calendar views, timed profiles, vpn support
SIP support is arguably better implemented, Maps now has 3d buildings, my new phone has better messaging, even though it's still not as good as, say, ProfiMail.
Now, not all of those things appear on every phone, but cumulatively there are a lot of extra things that have appeared on the S60 platform since the N95 came out.
There's no change in the eye candy, of course, but then there hasn't been that on the iPhone or on Android either. What massive improvements to the "overall package" has each of those platforms managed since release? They certainly don't appear to have been massive leaps forward, just as the changes in S60 haven't been massive leaps.
But there's certainly a lot more, and much of it a lot more usable, and faster, on the E75 I bought last week than there was on the N95 I bought a few years back. From an end user perspective, I for one find that a noticeable and welcome change.
Correct , unless you expect a Supercomputer for the money of a portion Fish and Chips .
😊 Regards jApi NL
Lets not forgot Steve voted the N97 as the best smartphone. LOL
Full of Nokia propaganda & BS this site...
The only reason AAS constantly gives a positive light on anything Nokia because they support the site. Steve use to get paid that way.... He mentioned this himself in one of his posts.
Cheers from Italy
I have a N97 no brand and no problems. I used it a lot for my job and it is OK. It is always switched on (night and day)and the OS is very stable (no crashes, no need to battery removal and so on).
The GPS works fine from the first day and, for the moment, the camera lens have no scratches (after one months of use) and the photos are great.
The fw20 and the kinetic scrolling work very fine.
My brother has a 5800 no brand and, on a similar way, he has no problems at all.
In my opinion, the real problem is not the phone but the brand version of the carriers (like Vodafone) for what concerns the software. About the hardware problems on the first units (gps, lens, loudspeaker on 5800) I agree that this is not the right way for a producer like Nokia but it could happen (see for instance the problems on the new model of a car).
Overall, I have no complains with my N97.
Unregistered wrote:Lets not forgot Steve voted the N97 as the best smartphone. LOL
How does that work then? Steve held a democratic election with one voter and then placed his vote and then counted it, held a recount and declared the N97 the winner? A single person cannot vote you moron. He gave his opinion.
Unregistered wrote:
Full of Nokia propaganda & BS this site...
Most of the BS comes from posts like yours.
Unregistered wrote:
The only reason AAS constantly gives a positive light on anything Nokia because they support the site. Steve use to get paid that way.... He mentioned this himself in one of his posts.
[/QUOTE]
This has been discussed before and you are wrong. You are twisting and telling lies.
Umberto wrote:Cheers from ItalyI have a N97 no brand and no problems. I used it a lot for my job and it is OK. It is always switched on (night and day)and the OS is very stable (no crashes, no need to battery removal and so on).
The GPS works fine from the first day and, for the moment, the camera lens have no scratches (after one months of use) and the photos are great.
The fw20 and the kinetic scrolling work very fine.
My brother has a 5800 no brand and, on a similar way, he has no problems at all.
In my opinion, the real problem is not the phone but the brand version of the carriers (like Vodafone) for what concerns the software. About the hardware problems on the first units (gps, lens, loudspeaker on 5800) I agree that this is not the right way for a producer like Nokia but it could happen (see for instance the problems on the new model of a car).
Overall, I have no complains with my N97.
Good post Umberto, this is also my experience. Much of the trouble reported on N97 is down to user incompetence.
"Nokia because they support the site. Steve use to get paid that way"
Just to reiterate that Nokia has NEVER paid AAS a single penny.
What the poster is thinking of is that S60.com sponsored a dozen programmes of my personal video podcast, The Smartphones Show (now The Phones Show) back in 2008/early 2009.
I carry 2 phones is because I need a good camera. As you know the 3GS's camera is nothing to shout about & most important of all you cannot send photos, videos & so forth via bluetooth.
As for the Satio's camera performance, you cannot go much wrong with it, is one of the best there is in the market now. I also forgot to mention that the battery is not sustainable. You need to charge it almost every day even with low usage. If I am not mistaken, it uses the same battery as the W890i.
dlff wrote:I carry 2 phones is because I need a good camera. As you know the 3GS's camera is nothing to shout about & most important of all you cannot send photos, videos & so forth via bluetooth.
.
I'm sure you have your reasons, but why not carry a phone and a camera rather than 2 phones?
The Satio article cited a quote from SE "that a small number of consumers have experienced software issues with its Satio handset when using certain applications."
Any idea which applications they are referring to?
Unregistered wrote:just to echo all the previous comments, a customer rep was kind enough to break open a new Satio in an Orange shop and whilst the camera, vga recording etc were spot on (Steve isn't the only one who thinks a Xenon flash is important!) the device was slow and the interface was truly awful,
at least the C905 is stable now, the Satio is shockingly bad
See this surprises me.
I've had a Satio for about 6 weeks now and have used it heavily. It's on Orange, but was shipped with an unbranded firmware. It's far faster than any other Symbian phone I've used and I find it to be about as responsive as an iPhone 3GS - which it should be given that it's the same hardware basically.
The interface is typical Symbian, which I'm used to and like. SE bolted on their own home screen which I find to be an improvement in usability and whilst it takes a bit of getting used to, I like it.
Finally, as for all these crashes and lock ups that other people seem to be having... I've not had one. Not a single crash, not a single freeze, not a single moment of madness. I was quite surprised by it in fact.
But it makes me think the fault lies in dodgy 3rd party apps or badly built branded firmwares, not the stock one.
Why do I carry 2 phones instead of just a phone & a camera?
I have 2 different telco lines & I am not happy with the way dual sim phone works.
Does that answer your question?
"Good post Umberto, this is also my experience. Much of the trouble reported on N97 is down to user incompetence."
This is a spectacularly insulting thing to say to all of those N97 owners who have had nothing but trouble with their phones. You are obviously happy with yours, which is great, but to essentially claim that there is nothing wrong with the N97 BUT only with the people that own it is frankly ludicrous; or are you claiming that all of the technology journalists who have reported on its faults at great length simply too stupid to understand how the N97 should be used...?
Notice the pattern? s60 v5 crapp!
Hope SE dumps it entirely and focus on Android
dlff wrote:Why do I carry 2 phones instead of just a phone & a camera?
I have 2 different telco lines & I am not happy with the way dual sim phone works.
Does that answer your question?
Yep. So it's not just:
"I carry 2 phones is because I need a good camera".
In response to "Unregistered's" comments regarding the main problems of the N97 being caused by user incompetence, I find this rather insulting.
I bought the N97 as a sim free unbranded handset, when it was first released here in Saudi, about a week before it was launched in the UK, and it is about my fourth Symbian phone, so I do know how to use them. The main problem I have experienced is the phone freezing when answering calls, and this problem has been consistent with v12 firmware, and now has also occurred on v20 FW. This is not down to user incompetence.
I got so fed up with it, for a while I reverted back to the N95, and waited til v20 FW was released for my Product Code. I know I'm not the only one with this problem, but was also so disappointed with the lack of support and response from Nokia. I rally do think that my time with Nokia has come to an end, and when I'm ready to splash out on another phone, I'll be looking very hard elsewhere.
And that too (a good camera) by the way!!!!