Let's try and work out two end points on the line of support for hardware. If you bought a new Nokia phone yesterday, you would expect the Finnish company to support it with the latest products and updates. But you wouldn't expect Nokia to be supporting the very first S60 phone, the 7650 in 2010? Agreed? Now read on, because that thought is important.
Read on in the full article.
This is starting to become a well worn rant of mine (see the previous news story), but I don't really agree that the current generation of Nokia smartphones are necessarily better - definitely a case of two steps forwards and two (or more) backwards. And don't get me started on graphics acceleration and Xenon 8-)
But I agree with the core point to the editorial, that Nokia has to cut loose some older models at some point and that people shouldn't be too surprised.*
* though I'd STILL like to see Ovi Maps 3.3 for the N95 8GB, which has more RAM and more power than the E71, on the same platform etc. etc. Grump. Grump.....
I broadly agree that you can't expect support forever. It would be nice to see some development on the E75 though. It has been out in the wild for less than a year runs FP2 and the updates to date have either disabled features (turn to silence) or been bug fixes for leaky memory gobbling code.
It would be nice to see maps 3.03 on this one.
Nokia could have saved a lot of negative chatter in the forums by announcing which devices they were working on maps for.
Use traffic lights Red - Too old,technically no hope or we don't want to for commercial reasons
Amber - Should work but we don't know how much work it will take
Green - Available/code in testing
I really should register on here...
Anyway 😊
"Those of you still stuck on the N95, it really is time to move forward and look at what's new in the smartphone world.
For all its faults, you will be at home with S60 5th Edition; you will find that touch is a valuable addition; your favourite applications are all still available in a comfortable and familiar environment; it's just that it's now up to date with larger screens, more storage, better connectivity... everything you liked in the N95 you'll find on the later devices.
There's been a lot of movement since the N95 was designed in 2006. When it's time to upgrade, upgrade. This future is a nice place to buy your next phone."
I'm still using a N95 8GB and what I'm saying isn't based on Ovi Maps. Actually I think �8 for a full years navigation on a 2.5 year old phone is great! But it's about the paragraphs above in particular.
If I were to buy a new phone now it would NOT be a Symbian based phone. Period. This is not because I don't want a Nokia/Symbian phone but because this future ISN'T a nice place to buy my next phone.
If I wait until around June, I could get the new iPhone with iPhone OS 4. Now Apple (based on Mac OS X and how the iPhone seems to be going) fully supports the current version and the previous version. As iPhone OS 4 will (fully) work with the iPhone out in June and the 3GS. So this iPhone out in June will be, in theory, fully supported until June 2012. Right when the contract is up for renewal.
If I buy a S60 5th Edition phone, it'll be replaced with Symbian^3 on new devices before then end of the year. Nokia certainly won't put Symbian^3 on an N97. And then Symbian^4 will be on new devices in 2011.
This is a bad, bad time to buy a Nokia because the Symbian OS will be totally unsupported and obsolete within 6-12 months. Great.
I think it's possible to get 3.03 maps on the N95, checking out the sis-installation .pkg there's a line in the code that says:
IF (MachineUid=0x2000249B) OR (MachineUid=0x2000249C)
Which seems to be the identification code for the E66 and E71. Changing one of the codes to 0x2000060B (N95) or completely remove the line should probably solve the installation error.
However the tool I'm using doesn't allow me to modify the .pkg, it only allows me to create a new one without the option to keep certain crucial lines. In time hopefully...
In principle, I agree with much of what Ewan says above; it's clearly unreasonable to expect indefinite support for every handset a given manufacturer produces (and I'm not convinced that most users do expect this, to be honest).
However, please don't assume that anyone still using (for example) the Nokia N95, is some kind of Luddite who hasn't upgraded because they don't know what else is out there. I am one of those N95 owners (since 2007), and let me assure you that I keep a very close eye on developments in the smartphone arena - not just Symbian, but other platforms (mostly Android).
Put simply: if there had been a device in the last three years which was a clear improvement over the N95 in every department, I would probably have upgraded to it by now. The problem is, in my view, that there hasn't been one - a device may win out in a few areas, but there's always some other feature which lets it down next to the N95. (I ask you: How hard can it be for a smartphone maker to improve all-round on a three-year-old handset?)
It's only now in 2010 that there seem to be phones providing that clear improvement - I'm watching out for the HTC Desire and the rumoured Nokia N8-00 (the latter looks very tasty) - but please don't assume that anyone still using a 2007-vintage handset is some kind of retro nostalgist 😉
OTOH, for a software and services company it is a bad move to cut off a significant proportion of your potential customer base. Supporting older devices sends a clear signal that your software and services proposition has a lot of value and that the devices running your software and services are not as important as the software and services themselves.
This makes the devices themselves more valuable as well, because you do not need to change them so often, and you spend less in the end.
And yes, this is exactly what Apple is doing. The devices are expensive, but because you can still upgrade them to the latest OS and use the software and services for that OS (as many as possible). So instead of a EUR 500 device that will last two years, you get an EUR 600 device that lasts 4 years.
Well I think Nokia's Support lifetime is still better than any other phone. Worst of all is iPhone. It's outdated as soon as the new model is announced and it's support will only last 2 years max? Only Android seems to support (few) older hardware models.
With Symbian^4 and QT, I hope that device's support lifetime will only increase.
@Unregistered
What's this about Symbian being totally unsupported - are you misunderstanding the situation? Symbian^1 apps will be fully compatible with Symbian^3 (it's part of my job to ensure this). Symbian^4 will expect apps to be written in Qt, which Symbian^3 devices will also support. So if you buy a Nokia Symbian device this summer, then you will be able to use all s60 5th edition apps (plus a lot of older ones, where compatible) PLUS all of the new apps written in Qt.
So ACTUALLY the time could never be better to buy a Symbian phone 😊
Sometimes I think that it would have been better if the free navigation was never promised for old devices - only sold after the announcement.
What upsets me about Nokia is that is that so many things seem not to work. I'm using an unbranded, unlocked E71 but am not allowed to upgrade to the latest firmware which is said to have fixed many problems. I'm still stuck with the firmware originally on the phone. I've made 6 failed attempts to purchase my first application from the ovi store. The first 3 attempts my card was declined. Nokia support took a week to write back and tell me all was fine on their end, that it must be my error. I made 3 more tries today, but I guess the store was broken.
@ Brendan Donegan
Sorry, in my haste I was referring specifically to the OS and how Nokia just won't put Symbian^(x+1) on a device that shipped with Symbian^x. And obviously Nokia will concentrate most of their effort on the latest version of Symbian. Which is what I class as "not supported". I suppose I should have put "not fully supported".
I may very well be misunderstanding the situation because from what you've written it sounds like I should ignore S60 5th, get a nice new Symbian^3 phone, then ignore the probable mess (from developers and Nokia playing catchup etc.) that Symbian^4 will bring. Then it'll be time for a nice solid Symbian^5 😊
But Nokia tends to mess up their first generation flagships by not releasing them with high enough specs (N95 > N95 8GB, N97 > N97 Mini). So I'll be into Symbian^4 territory by then. Arrrrgggghhhh. Hopefully you now see my problem 😛
Have to start a 2nd post, ironically this website/submission form is not compatible with my phone's browser. Nokia Email (or messaging or whatever its called today) won't install correctly. Well, it did once, but all other times (I hard reset/reinstall everything very frequently) it puts accts in regular messaging folder? Even this podcast doesn't work right. It was once addressed, but I cannot recall what if any solution was given. The AAS podcast is the only on of my 20 or so subscriptions that often doesn't download correctly. So many things about Nokia and my N800 and E71 are wonderful... But too many problems make me afraid to spend more money on their products.
I wouldn't be so annoyed if Nokia actually made a point of getting software updates available for all users promptly once released.
I have a Nokia N82 and can't update to latest firmware because apparently for my particular code the version I have is the latest. I'm stucj v20.xx when there is a v31 out.
I also had a Nokia 5800. Official Red UK unlocked version I purchased. There were new firmware out for months and still I could not get an official update for mine.
Nokia need to get there act together.
My main device is now a Nexus One (N82 as second sim). When Symbian get the touch screen stuff sorted out, I might consider getting another phone with Symbian OS on it (Love Android, but not a fanboy. You have to pay me if you want me to do that...).
But I want to know that I will get regular updates for my device to latest and greatest software. Current Symbian relationship to Nokia etc. with everything locked down so tight suggests I could still be sold something and then promptly forgotten about...
Rant over
Zuber
Should say 30.xxx not 20.xxx
Zuber
About Ovi Maps. Nokia should simply let the users install the latest .sis file on any symbian phone (incl. N95), but officially only support the phones they currently do. That way if it works the users are happy, if not Nokia can always say it isn't officially supported but offer the user to buy a cheap license.
svdwal wrote:OTAnd yes, this is exactly what Apple is doing. The devices are expensive, but because you can still upgrade them to the latest OS and use the software and services for that OS (as many as possible). So instead of a EUR 500 device that will last two years, you get an EUR 600 device that lasts 4 years.
Well that's just not true. iPhone 2g has been dropped from the V4 update. IPhone 3G will get V4 but no multi-tasking. IPhone 3G doesn't get the video editing in V3 even, or even a video camera (third party apps required). Jobs cites that the hardware is not up to it. I suspect it's because they want to sell more iPhone 4s.
So why bother? Why not just get a cheaper phone and new hardware with your new OS? There's no way I wanting to be poncing around with an iPhone 3G when it is clearly outclassed by the latest devices, and can't get the latest OS features anyway. And the 2G is stuck at V3.
Might as well just buy a new phone.
Admittedly I wanted a N95 but never had the spare cash to get one, but please folks move on from that device.
My spare phone is an e63 and to me it's the unsung hero of the Nokia product range, not as fancy as the e71/2 but such a reliable performer, and isn't exactly some obscure offshoot of Symbian that nobody has encountered before?
What would be wrong with enabling the free Ovi maps for all current devices even if they are using an external GPS receiver.
For some purposes I actually prefer the 63 to my HTC Desire (battery life, podcast & internet radio being 3 of the preferences)
Rob...
Unregistered wrote:I broadly agree that you can't expect support forever. It would be nice to see some development on the E75 though. It has been out in the wild for less than a year runs FP2 and the updates to date have either disabled features (turn to silence) or been bug fixes for leaky memory gobbling code.
Yup agreed. I haven't seen much development on the E75 front and frankly, I kind of feel left out in the cold by Nokia. Makes me wonder whether I should have just shelled out for the 5800 or the E71, those seem to see an endless stream of cool apps.. not like I'm envious or anything.
The main. point with this Ovi Maps debacle is that Nokia made a big announcement saying it was free.
That it turned out that it wasn't for the majority of devices meant that it felt like a con. People already had Maps on their devices and it made no sense why they were still paying.
Nokia have at last dropped the price, which has largely answered the issue, but it doesn't change the fact that they needlessly pissed people off.
irfanil wrote:Well I think Nokia's Support lifetime is still better than any other phone. Worst of all is iPhone. It's outdated as soon as the new model is announced and it's support will only last 2 years max? Only Android seems to support (few) older hardware models.With Symbian^4 and QT, I hope that device's support lifetime will only increase.
Yeah, but iPhone apps work across all iterations of the hardware. Not so with Nokia phones, because let's face it, even though devices are branded to run on FP1 or FP2 or whatever, the platform is fragmented as all heck. It's pretty obvious that Nokia's killing themselves trying to actively maintain and support each individual device, hence you see devices fall off the support roadmap - some sooner than others.
Unregistered wrote:Yeah, but iPhone apps work across all iterations of the hardware. .
Nah. Browse through the App Store, there are plenty of apps on there with a note saying that they only work on 3GS or 3G/3GS. It will be worse now with V4.
Unregistered wrote:Well that's just not true. iPhone 2g has been dropped from the V4 update. IPhone 3G will get V4 but no multi-tasking. IPhone 3G doesn't get the video editing in V3 even, or even a video camera (third party apps required). Jobs cites that the hardware is not up to it. I suspect it's because they want to sell more iPhone 4s.
Ok, make that a EUR 600 phone in three years. Still better value.
If Nokia had upgraded the N95 the same way, it would now be on S60 5th ed, but not support a touchscreen. But, it would still run the 5th ed software without a problem because 5th ed apps must work without touchscreen too. And Nokia would be able to sell software and services to N95 5th ed users without extra effort in porting the apps. This is what makes a platform stickier. They will have invested more into using a platform and are less likely to switch.
So why bother? Why not just get a cheaper phone and new hardware with your new OS? There's no way I wanting to be poncing around with an iPhone 3G when it is clearly outclassed by the latest devices, and can't get the latest OS features anyway. And the 2G is stuck at V3.Might as well just buy a new phone.
If you insist on always buying the latest, yes, then being able to upgrade a device to the latest OS is of no value to you. But it is still valuable to all those people without the money to buy a new phone, but with enough money to buy some software or services.
I get that one by-product of capitalism is that companies need to create demand and have a planned obsolescence so that we consumers would keep buying products. Cell companies in the states assume that we will change up phones every 2 years with their contract length and discounts for handsets.
But the result (for me) of this planned obsolescence is that I look to change cell companies and/or equipment every 1-2 years and I have decreasing loyalty to companies or brands. I had a terrible experience with the N97 - especially in the area of not being able to properly sync my calendar and contacts. I bought an ipod touch 6-8 months ago because I needed to be able to sync my calendar and contacts reliably between my mac and mobile device. I went back to my N85 and left the N97 ready to sell on ebay.
The Ipod Touch has become increasingly important to me in my life - personal and work. I purchased an Iphone recently (after being quite a holdout) because while it has some limitation in comparison to my N85 (especially tethering), the benefits win out. Although if Apple announces a new Iphone that I like better, I might have to return this device and go back to the N85 for a bit.
In two years, I might be done with the Iphone and go to Android.
I'd like Nokia to get their act together but I won't be buying a phone from there for 2 years.
Unregistered wrote:The main. point with this Ovi Maps debacle is that Nokia made a big announcement saying it was free.That it turned out that it wasn't for the majority of devices meant that it felt like a con. People already had Maps on their devices and it made no sense why they were still paying.
Nokia have at last dropped the price, which has largely answered the issue, but it doesn't change the fact that they needlessly pissed people off.
Nokia said that Maps are free to everyone, and they are. Anyone can go ahead and choose a Nokia phone that supports maps when they next update their phone. Free to everyone applies not only to Nokias, but to owners of other makers phones too. When you replace your phone you can have free maps, just choose the right phone.
Quite good marketing, and fairly easy to follow. One or two not so bright ones seemed to think it woudl apply to their old 6100. Duh.
Although there is truth in what Ewan says, E2Save (part of Carphone Warehouse) are still selling the N95 on 18 month contracts today:
http://www.e2save.com/search/0/0/?PHPSESSID=q7nno3qdh2ftajibbpdui32m47&search=N95
So I think this withdrawal is too soon
svdwal wrote:Ok, make that a EUR 600 phone in three years. Still better value.If Nokia had upgraded the N95 the same way, it would now be on S60 5th ed, but not support a touchscreen. But, it would still run the 5th ed software without a problem because 5th ed apps must work without touchscreen too. And Nokia would be able to sell software and services to N95 5th ed users without extra effort in porting the apps. This is what makes a platform stickier. They will have invested more into using a platform and are less likely to switch.
To get an N95 to 5th Edition you would need a hardware upgrade to install the touch screen.
But you still be stuck with a battered old phone where the slider is really starting to wear out.
Like a really old iPhone that you will need to send off an pay a lot of cash to get the battery replaced.
svdwal wrote:
If you insist on always buying the latest, yes, then being able to upgrade a device to the latest OS is of no value to you. But it is still valuable to all those people without the money to buy a new phone, but with enough money to buy some software or services.
Yes, but the Nokia phones are a fraction of the price. A Nokia 5230, 5530. I can buy four for the price of an iPhone. If you haven't got the money to buy a phone, then why choose an expensive phone?
richardyates wrote:Although there is truth in what Ewan says, E2Save (part of Carphone Warehouse) are still selling the N95 on 18 month contracts today:http://www.e2save.com/search/0/0/?PHPSESSID=q7nno3qdh2ftajibbpdui32m47&search=N95
So I think this withdrawal is too soon
It says "clearance". When you see that word you know what to expect.
I
I agree, it does. However given that there is still stock out there (note it doesn't say refurbished), I think its a bit premature
Is Nokia paying AAS to write these kind of articles? I'm not going to mention the lack of support on the N95 since I have it (even when it was not considered as 'historical'😉, but saying that it's the perfect time to move to S60v5 (already out-dated OS) is just a non-sense. My N95 8go is still working perfectly and the only thing missing is a touch-screen. "There's been a lot of movement since the N95 was designed in 2006", that's true WebOs, Iphone OS and especially Android OS. The only desirable Nokia currently is the N900. I will upgrade when my N95 will die, hopefully it will die with the release of Symbian^3 or ^4 (or Meego).
Meanwhile, I can still play, listen to music, watch videos, make video conf call, navigate (with Route66), run, tweet, take pictures, etc. with the best Nokia phone ever (in my personal opinion) since the Nokia 3310.