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The making of the Nokia N8's camera

107 replies · 36,806 views · Started 28 April 2010

Hi Damian,

And to complement genus86 sugestions:
-burstmode (more chance of getting the right moment)

-Shutterspeed priority: incase sportmode isnt fast enough (will increase iso or EV automatically)
-Manual shutterspeed: For the creative minds (better/longer nightshots, HDR imaging en better highspeed shots) with manual ISO and EV settings.

-Exposure Graphic! : Displays are hard to see in the sun regardless of what type and if its a bright day u dont know if the image is well exposed. This graphic can give u a indication to use -EV of +EV to correct it incase of over or underExporsure.

-Screentouch Capture: a button on the screen that u can touch to start autofocus and take picture, reduces chance of movement while pressing the button!

-Standords Computational HDR fotografie.

Br.

Mark.

Beach/Snow mode (for user taking photo under strong lighting condition such as beach & sunlit water scene to get better exposure & colour)

Currently we try and detect scenes such as snow and candle light automatically and then render these as per your minds eye remembers the scene. so in the case of snow there is a natural blue tint and in the case of candle light there is a warm hue. If we compensate for these they maybe technically correct but not representative of the original scene. Currently we'd like to maintain this approach based on extensive evaluation.

Backlight (for taking photo where light is come from behind of the, where user found n86 don't have ability to do well in this)

In the case of the N8 the face detection tied to backlight exposure compendation has been improved.

Party (white balance under dim room (warm colour lighting) is not doing well + also the exposure which user found n86 not doing well in this)

Not sure a party scene mode would help here as we already detect such conditions. Examples would help us to understand better any needed improvements.

For ISO setting
Allow user to manually preset ISO at 100, 200, 400, 800. Somtimes for low light condition user may want to use low ISO to extend exposure time & reduce noise at minimum.(for n86 there is no use of low ISO since this limited by exposure time 😡 & the photo get darker) Sometimes user may want to use high ISO800 /ISO1200 (flash off) to capture photo with minimum 'hand shake' without take too much concern on noise issue but just to get enough detail of subject under low light condition.

We already provide these settings for 100, 400 and 800.

For Focus mode
Wish to see lock exposure & spot focus ( sometimes using n86 wanna get more precise exposure is hard, with spot focus + AE Lock user can point on certain part on scene to get more precise exposure)

In the case of the N8 we use a small spot focus system. AE and AF are locked at half press.

For White Balance
Strong fluoroscent (current white balance available on n86 may not fullfill user since sometimes the scene WB still shown cool after using fluoroscent WB setting)

Again would need to see samples to better understand any needed refinements

Shade ( n86 user found the colour of subject which under shade will generally cooler)

Again samples would be needed here if you can please.

-burstmode (more chance of getting the right moment)

Noted

-Shutterspeed priority: incase sportmode isnt fast enough (will increase iso or EV automatically)

We do what's possible in sports mode without increasing the ISO too much. You could set this manually already today if desired.

-Manual shutterspeed: For the creative minds (better/longer nightshots, HDR imaging en better highspeed shots) with manual ISO and EV settings.

We already provide ISO and EV settings.

We do use some amount of wide dynamic range but limit the use of these as they tend to increase noise.

Problem with manual exposure controls is being able to provide wide enough aperture control range to make manual expsoure control worthwhile. Otherwise you only have gain to provide variation which would increase noise in the case of selecting faster shutter speeds. Slower shutter speeds wouldn't be possible unless you could use the ND filter.

-Exposure Graphic! : Displays are hard to see in the sun regardless of what type and if its a bright day u dont know if the image is well exposed. This graphic can give u a indication to use -EV of +EV to correct it incase of over or underExporsure.

Hmm, not sure what we could actually do here. The n8's display is brighter so it's easier to frame and compose your image, but I take your point re critical exposure control.

-Screentouch Capture: a button on the screen that u can touch to start autofocus and take picture, reduces chance of movement while pressing the button!

This has been in N97 and a few other products. Looking at it.

-Standords Computational HDR fotografie.

Noted

Hi Damian

When will we see optical stabilization in Nokia phones?

br

Hi Damian,

Thank u for the reply, looking forward to the N8, its camera and the camera application.
Nice to see that technologie is improving, just fed up with the fact that the camera application doesnt give enough options to tinker with and make u feel that u are playing with a cheap camera.

Lets atleast utilize the harware to the fullest with the right software.

And about the graph, i had on many occassions that there was some white blowout on an object in bright sunlights (plants, persons etc) and most people make images outside in sunny conditions (beach, zoo etc.) this is something u cant correct with imageing software.
So an indicator would be nice so see if it is good before u leave the scene.

Br,

Mark.

the tx7 camera of Sony takes wonderful pics and this camera is only 17 mm thick! With optical stabilization, lens cover, both LED and Xenon flash, optical zoom. And shoots 1080i videos. Moreover it has a 1080p HDMI port (unlike the N8 that has a 720p HDMI port). So Nokia can do a lot better!

Unregistered wrote:the tx7 camera of Sony takes wonderful pics and this camera is only 17 mm thick! With optical stabilization, lens cover, both LED and Xenon flash, optical zoom. And shoots 1080i videos. Moreover it has a 1080p HDMI port (unlike the N8 that has a 720p HDMI port). So Nokia can do a lot better!

true but it's only a camera.

Mark1976 wrote:Hi Damian,

Thank u for the reply, looking forward to the N8, its camera and the camera application.
Nice to see that technologie is improving, just fed up with the fact that the camera application doesnt give enough options to tinker with and make u feel that u are playing with a cheap camera.

Lets atleast utilize the harware to the fullest with the right software.

And about the graph, i had on many occassions that there was some white blowout on an object in bright sunlights (plants, persons etc) and most people make images outside in sunny conditions (beach, zoo etc.) this is something u cant correct with imageing software.
So an indicator would be nice so see if it is good before u leave the scene.

Br,

Mark.

ok got it now. You'd like to see a histogram display. Noted.

DamianDinning wrote:Beach/Snow mode (for user taking photo under strong lighting condition such as beach & sunlit water scene to get better exposure & colour)

Currently we try and detect scenes such as snow and candle light automatically and then render these as per your minds eye remembers the scene. so in the case of snow there is a natural blue tint and in the case of candle light there is a warm hue. If we compensate for these they maybe technically correct but not representative of the original scene. Currently we'd like to maintain this approach based on extensive evaluation.

Backlight (for taking photo where light is come from behind of the, where user found n86 don't have ability to do well in this)

In the case of the N8 the face detection tied to backlight exposure compendation has been improved.

Party (white balance under dim room (warm colour lighting) is not doing well + also the exposure which user found n86 not doing well in this)

Not sure a party scene mode would help here as we already detect such conditions. Examples would help us to understand better any needed improvements.

For ISO setting
Allow user to manually preset ISO at 100, 200, 400, 800. Somtimes for low light condition user may want to use low ISO to extend exposure time & reduce noise at minimum.(for n86 there is no use of low ISO since this limited by exposure time 😡 & the photo get darker) Sometimes user may want to use high ISO800 /ISO1200 (flash off) to capture photo with minimum 'hand shake' without take too much concern on noise issue but just to get enough detail of subject under low light condition.

We already provide these settings for 100, 400 and 800.

For Focus mode
Wish to see lock exposure & spot focus ( sometimes using n86 wanna get more precise exposure is hard, with spot focus + AE Lock user can point on certain part on scene to get more precise exposure)

In the case of the N8 we use a small spot focus system. AE and AF are locked at half press.

For White Balance
Strong fluoroscent (current white balance available on n86 may not fullfill user since sometimes the scene WB still shown cool after using fluoroscent WB setting)

Again would need to see samples to better understand any needed refinements

Shade ( n86 user found the colour of subject which under shade will generally cooler)

Again samples would be needed here if you can please.

-burstmode (more chance of getting the right moment)

Noted

-Shutterspeed priority: incase sportmode isnt fast enough (will increase iso or EV automatically)

We do what's possible in sports mode without increasing the ISO too much. You could set this manually already today if desired.

-Manual shutterspeed: For the creative minds (better/longer nightshots, HDR imaging en better highspeed shots) with manual ISO and EV settings.

We already provide ISO and EV settings.

We do use some amount of wide dynamic range but limit the use of these as they tend to increase noise.

Problem with manual exposure controls is being able to provide wide enough aperture control range to make manual expsoure control worthwhile. Otherwise you only have gain to provide variation which would increase noise in the case of selecting faster shutter speeds. Slower shutter speeds wouldn't be possible unless you could use the ND filter.

-Exposure Graphic! : Displays are hard to see in the sun regardless of what type and if its a bright day u dont know if the image is well exposed. This graphic can give u a indication to use -EV of +EV to correct it incase of over or underExporsure.

Hmm, not sure what we could actually do here. The n8's display is brighter so it's easier to frame and compose your image, but I take your point re critical exposure control.

-Screentouch Capture: a button on the screen that u can touch to start autofocus and take picture, reduces chance of movement while pressing the button!

This has been in N97 and a few other products. Looking at it.

-Standords Computational HDR fotografie.

Noted

Hi Damian,

Thanks for your prompt reply.

here I post sample of photo taken for Cool colour & and backlight subject (where face detection can't take function for it) & also incorrect WB photo taken by n86

Cold colour on shade & dark subject as result from backlight
User posted image
another photo
User posted image

WB fluorescent
User posted image

WB sunlight (over warm colour)
User posted image
After editted (the WB should be like that as view by naked eye)
User posted image

The point of making wrong calculations by selecting the wrong table row is worth of double-check. So instead of accusing each other, can someone confirm the correct sensor size of the N8 camera? The 1/1.9" does seem like a high end camera sensor in a phone - a figure worth double-checking. Thanks in advance for the answer.

Ignore the previous post...didn't read through all of the pages.

HI

I have a question for Damian Dinning:

is it possible to include an optical stabilization in a phone and if yes, why Nokia have not included that very important feature until now?

This is not the official Nokia blog. So i can't answer all your questions. You should put your questions on Nokia conversations blog( Official).

Now Nokia N8 doesn't have Camera Cover. However the camera lens is made up of Gorrila Glass, which is unscratchable and unbreakable.

Nokia N8 has a 1/1.83" sensor which is 40-45% larger than most Point&Shoot cameras in the market(1/2.3" or 1/2.5"😉. N8 has superior optics to compensate variable aperture and has a ND filter to prevent washed out images in bright sunlight.

I don't see any dedicated camera with LEDs in the market, probably you people may have created one???

N8 has 720P HD video recording at 25FPS along with Active continuous focus which is better than continuous auto focus.

Damian Dinning wrote:This is not the official Nokia blog. So i can't answer all your questions. You should put your questions on Nokia conversations blog( Official).

Now Nokia N8 doesn't have Camera Cover. However the camera lens is made up of Gorrila Glass, which is unscratchable and unbreakable.

Nokia N8 has a 1/1.83" sensor which is 40-45% larger than most Point&Shoot cameras in the market(1/2.3" or 1/2.5"😉. N8 has superior optics to compensate variable aperture and has a ND filter to prevent washed out images in bright sunlight.

I don't see any dedicated camera with LEDs in the market, probably you people may have created one???

N8 has 720P HD video recording at 25FPS along with Active continuous focus which is better than continuous auto focus.

Hi Damian

Good to hear that n8 have 1/1.83" larger sensor. May I know how far is the larger sensor can take advantage among 1/2.5" sensor? By theory it should be. I mean in term of colour.. noise and dynamic range performance.😊

1/1.83" do mean it have much better quality???

Damian Dinning wrote:This is not the official Nokia blog. So i can't answer all your questions. You should put your questions on Nokia conversations blog( Official).

Now Nokia N8 doesn't have Camera Cover. However the camera lens is made up of Gorrila Glass, which is unscratchable and unbreakable.

Nokia N8 has a 1/1.83" sensor which is 40-45% larger than most Point&Shoot cameras in the market(1/2.3" or 1/2.5"😉. N8 has superior optics to compensate variable aperture and has a ND filter to prevent washed out images in bright sunlight.

I don't see any dedicated camera with LEDs in the market, probably you people may have created one???

N8 has 720P HD video recording at 25FPS along with Active continuous focus which is better than continuous auto focus.

Please don't pose as me and try and answer questions on my behalf. I prefer to do that myself. The above quoted post was NOT from me. Some elements are not 100% correct.

genus86 wrote:Hi Damian

Good to hear that n8 have 1/1.83" larger sensor. May I know how far is the larger sensor can take advantage among 1/2.5" sensor? By theory it should be. I mean in term of colour.. noise and dynamic range performance.😊

1/1.83" do mean it have much better quality???

They;ll be a bigger story explaining more in this area soon on Nokia Conversations. For the time being put it this way. it gives us much more flexibility to create a better balanced result. So we're hoping to have relatively low noise in most situations, but retain a high level of natural detail without resorting to artifical image processing techniques to 'fool' the eye into thinking the image is better than it is.

br

D

Does the N8's USB-OTR port is actively powered? If yes, hom many mA?

Because there would be a way to develop an "atachable video light"
Some small, always-in-your-pocket-able cube you stick directly in the microUSB port
tiny rkcstr driver or better buck-switching flexdrive for an 3W or 5W Cree R2 emitter