Unregistered wrote:This article is complete bullshit. It copies the results of the computations done by GSMArena about the sensor size of the N8, which were WRONG, so it's regurgitated bullshit. Following the exactly same procedure that GSMArena used, I was able to conclude that my camera, a Sony DSC-HX5V, had a (astonishing!) sensor size of 1/1.7", while in reality its sensor size is 1/2.4". GSMArena mistakenly looked up the Height row in the Wikipedia table they used, instead of the (correct) Width row.
Doing the computations correctly, the N8 sensor weights in at around 1/2.8", similar to other low-end compact cameras.
Here are the relevant links for those who want to do the computation themselves:
http://blog.gsmarena.com/how-large-is-the-nokia-n8-12-megapixel-large-image-sensor/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_sensor_format
My congratulations to the Nokia employees who read and commented on this article, who, having worked on the N8 optics, surely knew that the numbers were completely wrong and waaaay to good to be true, and said nothing about it.
Umm.. No. The calculations done by GSM Arena are correct. Why do you look at the width row at the table? They calculated the "Crop Factor" (the actual focal length divided by effective focal length) and if you look at the table you find that, the actual sensor size in N8 is somewhere between 1/2" and 1/1.8". Not that hard..
Some practice: your Sony has a focal length of 4,25mm and 25mm effective focal length which means, that the image sensor has a Crop Factor of 5,89. And if we look that at the table, sensor with a crop factor of 5,89 is right between the 1/2.5" 1/2.3" image sensors -> 1/2.4"..
DamianDinning wrote:I think you'll be very happy with the shutter key.br
D
Thanks, that's great to hear!
Any chance Nokia will implement Swipe in N8? Motorola Cliq XT already announced it.
http://www.swypeinc.com/tips-tricks.html
Mobile-Review.com got everybody anxious about the N8 because the review they put on there Russian site,an the review really did not see anything special about certain parts on the N8,but now the N8 official announce by Nokia everybody going crazy about the Design an Camera on the N8,but we all want to see the new software on the N8 an will it be able to compete with Apple an Anroid,today on the Mobile-Review.com English page,they are really asking whats going on at Nokia as they seem more bothered about it services not handsets an since the N95 not released anything outstanding as the N97 turned people to buying Blackberry an iPhones instead,an will the N8 really succede,an just hope it does,but also ask whats going wrong at Nokia as in 2010 nothing to compete nowdays an Nokia will change there ideas in 2011 but will that be a honest statement from Nokia but do not believe until it happens
Nothing to compete? That's one opint of view. iPhone/BB will never come close being an image savvy solutions, they don't come even close to N95 in that respect. For many people multimedia is very important part of phone features. Of course if you're more into Outlook emails/ business type Blackberry will be better solution. So I guess, each to its own, but calling Nokia lame is not correct/fair at least. I hear so many comment/nags: shit, it doesn't have camera lens (nor does iPhone/BB/HTC); non-removable battery (same as iPhone/HTC) and no one is taking this bad for other brands but with Nokia this is disaster! C'mon, as I said not fair or better put double standards.
Cheers,
Miki
The only thing that stands out in this article is the relatively large sensor, which should improve noise and detail. But that gets ruined by the large megapixel count.
We need bigger the pixels. Bigger pixels capture more light and achieve better quality photos. And to achieve that we need larger sensors with and fewer megapixels.
Canon's highest end compact camera, the 14 megapixel G10, suffered from noise and smeared details despite its large sensor and excellent optics. Its update, the G11 was "only" 10 megapixels and therefore delivered much better results especially in low light.
Unregistered wrote:the actual sensor size in N8 is somewhere between 1/2" and 1/1.8". Not that hard..
Correct- the image sensor is 1/1.9". VERY impressive. There are some advanced point-and-shoots that don't have a sensor this big. This is exactly what we've needed. Now, it's entirely debatable whether or not 12 MP out of a sensor even that size is too much. We'll find out soon enough- hopefully *early* in Q3. 😊
DamianDinning wrote:Thanks for your comments. Found myself nodding in agreement a lot when reading your post. This is an incredibly complex industry. We have to balance what the vast majority of people believe and what we believe is right for our customers.With the N8 we didn't want to go backwards from the N86, only forwards, but we also need to be competitive in the industry. For these reasons, we concluded the only way forward was to do this properly and that meant using the biggest sensor ever in a mobile.
Longer term, we continue to debate and discuss all kinds of interesting views of possible directions we could take, but for now, I'm pretty proud of what the guys have been cooking for us. 😊
I would like to 2nd _big_mac_'s posting. But I also got your point. If 12mp is wanted by the marketing guys, then the only way to do it right is taking such a large sensor.
The digital compact camera folks just learned the megapixel lesson and restricted the mp to around 9-10 even on the large 1/1,6'' sensors. Interestingly, the low end compact cameras now offer higher megapixel values than the high end.
Maybe this could also be a way for Nokia? High end camera phones with 10mp and cheaper ones for the masses with maybe 14mp or whatever is wanted by marketing?
Anyways: congratulations to Nokia. The N8 will take the lead for camera phones for quite some time
i hate you
I was just about to move to an HTC device because Nokia's camera wouldn't make up for the UI (which I can't judge in this device yet). now you present this
I totally agree with the sensor used and the pixel count. It might have been lower resolution but hey more MPs always come handy if you need to crop. Besides with a xenon flash I don't think I'll have to be worrying about exposure. After all I want the phone to take fast easy shots, if i want no-flash high iso photographs I'll use a DSLR. I was worried about AF on the dark but I see you've implemented an LED for that too.
you have brought back a customer!
also, will the 2 mics setup be used for noise cancellation in calls too? to me it's more important to have clear calls than clear audio recordings.
I really hope the rest of the phone will keep up. :icon14:
This is great to see a member of the design team answering questions in such an upfront way. It's really nice to have a bit more info on whats going on behind the scenes of the phone, as its often easy to assume (from an uninformed perspective!) that its the just the same hardware re-hashed into different shapes over and over again...
This is also a great reminder that the smartphone market is about more than just a great UI, which some companies seem to have forgotten... killer hardware is still important!
Really great article, and great comments and responses, great work!
josealb wrote:i hate you
I was just about to move to an HTC device because Nokia's camera wouldn't make up for the UI (which I can't judge in this device yet). now you present this
Yup. Except I'd nearly decided on the Samsung Galaxy S. Now I'm confused. Damn you Nokia.
Finally a camphone to beat my four year old i-mobile 902 with its 5 MP CCD.
Will the Symbian^3 OS support audiobooks and podcasts? Brand new OS means it will take some time before apps become available?
How about optical zoom?
You guys are comparing mobile phone to pocket camera.
abubasim wrote:Finally a camphone to beat my four year old i-mobile 902 with its 5 MP CCD.Will the Symbian^3 OS support audiobooks and podcasts? Brand new OS means it will take some time before apps become available?
Yes to Podcasts (I think). Audio books should have better support too (wait for device time again).
The majority of Symbian^1 apps will run unchanged on Symbian^3 so there's much less of a software issue than there was when the 5800 was the first device.
I think Qt may actually means we get an acceleration in the number of available apps.
Hih wrote:How about optical zoom?You guys are comparing mobile phone to pocket camera.
Yeah there's no optical zoom. You get the equivalent in video though (as mentioned in article).... I think you could argue with a 12 mega pixel camera you can crop an image to get something similar to typical pocket digicam.
Optical zoom is never going to work that well in mobile phones because of the space requirements. One of the trade offs... I think I'd give this up for the ability to upload pics immediately (i.e. a connected camera).
This might sound like a silly detail, but the N8 camera button has got the most satisfying “click” I’ve ever felt on a phone. It feels like a real camera button.
:top: sorry folks, I'm kind of obsessed with this camera button thing.
Cheers,
Miki
The N8 looks like a very good phone. If I didn't want a MeeGo based phone I'd be going for this one. I'm glad Xenon is back, and hopefully it will stay. People are so surprised when they see both photos and videos produced by the N82 -- they're great.
I miss the absence of some manual protection for the lens though. Even the less than ideal N85 solution would've been better and not required as much increase in thickness as say the N82/N95 solution.
I hope this device sells well.
pseudofinn wrote:Correct- the image sensor is 1/1.9". VERY impressive. There are some advanced point-and-shoots that don't have a sensor this big. This is exactly what we've needed. Now, it's entirely debatable whether or not 12 MP out of a sensor even that size is too much. We'll find out soon enough- hopefully *early* in Q3. 😊
I had posted this already but again, so we all now the correct specs.
Sensor is 1/1.83"
atb
Damian
any changes about those "9 corners" of autofocus, like in N86?
user cannot touch the battery... i hope the 8sec power button holding would work the trick, when the worst case comes.
miki69 wrote:any changes about those "9 corners" of autofocus, like in N86?
No we're going to try something different in the case of N8. We've focused [pardon the bad pun] on speed. This system uses a central spot only. However, with the improved face detection system faces outside of this central area will be detected and therefore focused on, even if the face is at the side of the frame. The result is much faster autofocus than before. It should be around 0.5secs, maybe less in the final sw. This is twice as fast as the N86.
br
D
xyes wrote:user cannot touch the battery... i hope the 8sec power button holding would work the trick, when the worst case comes.
I don't believe this is an area you need worry about.
Happy also to acknowledge Damian's genius and consequently claim my free N8 from him. This phone looks great and ticks many boxes for us saddoes (guessing on the plural of saddo) who frequent this site.
Good work Damian and Nokia. (I'll provide my address details for receipt of the phone separately Damian.)
I think that the fixed aperture lens it's a great idea. Due the small sensor, the control of depth of field that provides to you is very small. But the refraction is a big problem, I don't know the exact numbers, but I think that at this sensor size, it's phisically imposible to obtain 12Mpx with apertures smaller than f/4 or f/5.6. For all this, is much more intelligent to use a ND filter because it don't "steals" resolution to the lens.
P.D. How much stops take the ND filter?
DamianDinning wrote:I don't believe this is an area you need worry about.
u mean, it won't hang, for sure? or that 8sec power button trick will definitely work?
Steve, would be good if you repeated this article when you actually get your hands on a retail N8, and make the comparisons to see if these specs all ring true. Maybe even do the same with pic quality comparing them to the published Nokia photos.
I haven't really thought of buying another Nokia phone for myself, but this shot has certainly made me think again
http://samples.republicpublishi.netdna-cdn.com/Nokia-N8-sample-3.jpg
I feel this thing doesn't haave enough memory for a brand new OS
if they doubled it I feel much better
xyes wrote:u mean, it won't hang, for sure? or that 8sec power button trick will definitely work?
It would be arrogant for anyone to suggest that any computer OS would never crash due to it's incredible complexity given so many different combinations of events which coud be the cause for such events.
The power key reset has been designed to provide a reliable method in such events, but of course it goes without saying that our aim is for you not to need it.
^^^ yah u r right brand new mobile needs bigger processor and more ram but everyone here boasting nokia and symbian capabilities that lower ram is enough for symbian 3 and symbian manages very well what the hell then why nokia and symbian failed in n97
now nokia adding so many features in upcoming phone , lower ram , processor enough ?
Hi
Congratulation for the N8 but I am upset the N8 doesn't have neither a lens cover nor a double LED for video recording (those of the N86 were great). It would have been the best smartphone ever (the most complete at least).
I know it is too late now but I hope Nokia have another flagship in his portfolio coming out soon ( a N8 with a bigger screen, a lens cover, a double LED and better CPU).
Thanks
