Ian 2 wrote:Now? Where? On YouTube videos?
You can download it from symbian.org if you want.
Nokia's Anssi Vanjoki says 'the fightback starts now'
kevwright wrote:
I dunno, even a short term use of Android would be a reasonable idea. I mean, look at the N8, you buy it, hardly any software will be written or converted as devs have no idea if there will be more high end Symbian 3 handsets, at least if they went to Android, there would be 60k apps from Day 1
What are you talking about? Old 5th edition programs work with N8, and new QT programs also. So N8 has the widest selection of programs for it from day1 and the future is secured because of the bundled QT. When I hear the app count argument I usually ask what app is missing from OVI or the Symbian app selection in general. So can you tell me what are you missing. Games, twitter clients?
Can you think what kind of signal a "short term use" of Android would give to markets and consumers? Customers can't even understand that S^3 continues to be supported after S^4 is released. If most of the readers of so called tech sites don't even understand Nokia's 2 OS strategy what would happen if Android is mixed into the soup too.
I do believe that Meego slots in above Android in the grand scheme of things, so it is not really an Android competitor.
I have been using an iPhone for a while, but I have gradually got sick of it, and there is nothing much more to offer from V4, so I went shopping yesterday.
I got me my first Sony Ericsson phone, a tiny X10 mini pro, with a slide out qwerty, what a magic little thing, nicely pocketable, and not an embarrassing huge slab of a thing, yet it does....everything and cost very little (as I traded in my spare Nokia 5530).
What OS does it have? Who cares? Not me, I just want a phone to suit me. And I am like the vast majority of the market. Make a phone that does the job and it will sell. What OS is on it doesn't matter a jot.
And the person that said "a phone without an ecosystem is not a smartphone" is in fact not a smart person. You could barely get a more stupid statement anywhere on the whole WWW. And what the f*** is an "ecosystem" anyway? Something only you 1 percenters care about.
Nokia shouldn't worry about putting extra specs and features on to try and impress geeks (honestly what use is 950xwhatever resolution in a few small inches anyway - couldn't anyone read the old ones?).
Concentrate on making phones that people want and stop panicking about "ecosystems" for the 1 per cent of geeks.
I don't know if anyone has made the connection yet, I didn't bother reading all the post, lol... But sure hope this statement clarifies where Nokia stands with Symbian and now Meego. As far as I can understand by research done on my own; Symbian is still going to be Nokia's primary smartphone OS while Meego will power their mobile computers(Eg. like MID, Netbooks and tablets). Symbian may be old, but it was made to be adaptable; thus the Symbian Foundation was formed to shape the new Symbian. Meego is new, and it is being developed for the purpose of complementing Nokia's entry into Computers and Software(anyone remember the Booklet 3G?). And in order for these platforms to co-exist and compliment each other; QT was aquired from Trolltech. The new QT Developing Environment is the bridge that ties Symbian Smartphones to their Meego Mobile Computers.
Wasn't it Anssi who admitted that the N97 was a failure? Good for him.
With Symbian-Guru.com calling it quits on Symbian the Nokia defenders are few and far in between it seems.
http://www.symbian-guru.com/welcome/2010/07/symbian-guru-com-is-over.html
Attachments:
Unregistered wrote:- The fact that he refuses to mention iOS and Android in this mobile pocket computer space he proclaims with Meego also shows the denial on how Nokia is behind- there's no doubt that N8 will be a massive hit, but that's mainly due to price point, seems like. If this was priced anywhere near Android or Apple devices, I doubt it will ever fly.
You contradict yourself. If Symbian is so far behind the iPhone why should it be priced the same? You could apply the same spurious argument to S40 devices - if priced at the same level as the iPhone they would not sell therefore they are no good. They are what they are and are priced accordingly.
So, either the N8 is as good as the iPhone and should be at the same price level - in which case it will definitely be a bargain when it comes out - or the N8 is not as good as the iPhone and this is taken into account in the price.
I look forward to seeing the answer when the N8 comes out.
N�rde wrote:When I hear the app count argument I usually ask what app is missing from OVI or the Symbian app selection in general. So can you tell me what are you missing. Games, twitter clients?
I am missing many things - task/to-do management apps syncing with the cloud (Remember the Milk etc.), internet radio app, Evernote, Dropbox, Google Earth, Read it later/Instapeper, Zinio, Amazon Kindle, LinkedIn, Nokia bluetooth keyboard drivers, ZX Spectrum emulator (not ported from older S60). Do I need to continue?
N�rde wrote:You can download it from symbian.org if you want.
Can't find it. Could you provide a link?
Arthur wrote:Wasn't it Anssi who admitted that the N97 was a failure? Good for him.With Symbian-Guru.com calling it quits on Symbian the Nokia defenders are few and far in between it seems.
http://www.symbian-guru.com/welcome/2010/07/symbian-guru-com-is-over.html
Yes, I fear for a future full of dreadful negative people like you.
This isn't the first time Nokia said the they would fight back. So if they start now, what on earth were they doing before.
And symbian-guru wasn't the only site to quit symbian on July 1.
>Wasn't it Anssi who admitted that the N97 was a failure? Good for him.
I remember that. It was a very honest of him to say that.
Ian 2 wrote:Can't find it. Could you provide a link?
N�rde wrote:What are you talking about? When I hear the app count argument I usually ask what app is missing from OVI or the Symbian app selection in general. So can you tell me what are you missing. Games, twitter clients?
In no particular order:
- Mobile banking (Wells fargo)
- MLB or NFL applications
- Foursquare
- Bitbop
- Documents To Go (seems to have been killed for Symbian)
- A non-crap facebook application
- A real email client (Nokia messaging blows chunks)
And good god, I can go on and on. Those were off the top of my head, and those are things I've used just recently. You could say that the NFL and MLB apps are americentric, and that'd be fine. I'll stand by the rest.
Ian 2 wrote:I am missing many things - task/to-do management apps syncing with the cloud (Remember the Milk etc.), internet radio app, Evernote, Dropbox, Google Earth, Read it later/Instapeper, Zinio, Amazon Kindle, LinkedIn, Nokia bluetooth keyboard drivers, ZX Spectrum emulator (not ported from older S60). Do I need to continue?
Just noting that there are loads of Internet Radio apps for S60 5th Edition. And an Evernote client. And Dropbox's mobile site should work. Google Maps w/satellite imagery is native, BT drivers work fine from older S60 versions download.
Though admittedly not all the above are in the 'Ovi Store'. You have to put in a little Googling etc 8-(
A really good ebook system for Symbian would be good though.
slitchfield wrote:
Though admittedly not all the above are in the 'Ovi Store'. You have to put in a little Googling etc 8-(.
Indeed I would be very unhappy if my app purchases had to be constrained to a single source. Often direct to the authors is a far better way to get new apps.
slitchfield wrote:Just noting that there are loads of Internet Radio apps for S60 5th Edition. And an Evernote client. And Dropbox's mobile site should work. Google Maps w/satellite imagery is native, BT drivers work fine from older S60 versions download.Though admittedly not all the above are in the 'Ovi Store'. You have to put in a little Googling etc 8-(
A really good ebook system for Symbian would be good though.
Steve, could you please provide some names of internet radio apps? I could not find any replacement for Nokia Internet Radio I had on N82... Also BT drivers work on my 5800 for about 5 minutes, then strange things start to happen (same character repeats indefinitely, keyboard becomes unusable).
PS. Just to be precise, Dropbox web page doesn't count, Evernote is some beta build nowhere to be found on their page, possible won't be released. And Google Maps is not Google Earth 😊
Unregistered wrote:Indeed I would be very unhappy if my app purchases had to be constrained to a single source. Often direct to the authors is a far better way to get new apps.
Not in my experience. If you buy directly from the developer, your app is tied to one IMEI number. If you buy form Ovi Store, you can use it on all your Symbian phones (just login to Ovi and download). Still, there is no way to update apps in Ovi Store which is ridiculous!
Ian 2 wrote:Not in my experience. If you buy directly from the developer, your app is tied to one IMEI number. If you buy form Ovi Store, you can use it on all your Symbian phones (just login to Ovi and download). Still, there is no way to update apps in Ovi Store which is ridiculous!
In my experience a quick email to the developer and they let you have another signed version, and lonelycat (profimail) do it automatically.
Unregistered wrote:In my experience a quick email to the developer and they let you have another signed version, and lonelycat (profimail) do it automatically.
Not only that, but self-signing is not exactly rocket science with Symbian. Definitely best to have a copy of the .sis.
Ian 2 wrote:Steve, could you please provide some names of internet radio apps? I could not find any replacement for Nokia Internet Radio I had on N82... Also BT drivers work on my 5800 for about 5 minutes, then strange things start to happen (same character repeats indefinitely, keyboard becomes unusable).
The BT drivers have always done that, on any Nokia I've ever owned. If you can't type what you need in 5 minutes, you're screwed.
@slitchfield
Steve it would seem from their website ( http://www.evernote.com/about/download/ )and the fact that there's now nothing in the Ovi store for N97 that (much to my frustration) Evernote have dropped Symbian support.
It's a shame as I was planning on jsing it having just got my mum an iPad and getting her an iPhone and we could have shared to-do's in a way (pics voice etc.) that seemed like it could be more accessible for her. It's worrying that more and more major websites/services are no longer bothering with Symbian support. I hope some have been switching to Qt but I fear many more can't be bothered to support a platform that whilst it may have a reported 40% market share has smartphone actual usage levels (like downloading apps, browsing etc.) well below the levels of other platforms. Also Nokia's mis-management of change and their shitty handsets can't be helping.
I did start warning you guys last year how much ill will the N97 and Nokia's awful OS were going to elicit and now you can see from the dying blogspace and absent developers and generally hostile/sceptical/unbelieving reactions to any statement from Nokia. Even on Nokia Conversations it fist of all took hours for more than three comments to be posted (the big yawn) and then the vast majority are of the too little too late/we've heard it all before but good luck variety. As I once wrote, to your disbelief I'm sure, Nokia would have been better to have pulled the N97 off the shelves as soon as it became apparent what a disaster it was (frankly they obviously knew in advance of release otherwise the almost immediate release of the N97 mini with an increased C😊 to stop it doing any more harm and causing greater hostility and ridicule.
Nokia has expended all of peoples willingness to suspend disbelief and (yes I know they're coming soon) here we are in Juy 2010 and Nokia don't have flagship phone and haven't had a functioning one since 2008 (the rubbish N96). Not surprising without products to buy they're getting a kicking.
Anyone who buys an N8 at release will be extremely brave and extremely foolhardy and breaking one of your own rules for buying smartphones - wait until the device is proven stable. Once they have waited until Nov/ Dec why on earth wouldn't they wait until spring just to see what S^4 brings (if they're stuck on Symbian)? Without Nokia clarifying what the upgrade path will be for these devices I do believe S^3 will struggle (after all Apple and Android have a good, if uneven record in Android's case, of bringing quite comprehensive updates to older handsets). Yes I know all about Qt and it can run both Qt and older Avkon but the message is a mess and has not been set out so that the wider public can grasp it (if they ever can) even the geek-o-sphere keeps getting bits wrong. Now we have Anssi saying N series devices will have S4 a few days after a slightly different statement, people are confused enough already and Nokia's clarification is non existant. And this has to be keeping developers away in droves, who wants to invest time in an environment which even it's biggest proponent does seem clear about how it fits their portfolio? (as a side note S^3 will I guess kill app development for my N97 as no one is really going to develop on Avkon and the N97 won't really be able to run Qt libraries, so under a year old and an OS backwater already, but there haven't really been new apps for a while anyway) .
Against which it shouldn't really surprise anyone that their share price is a trainwreck and if it continues at these levels will probably result in replacement of the senior management - hence I guess the final wake up call from Mr Vanjoki. They've left it late - very late.
Jejoma wrote:You contradict yourself. If Symbian is so far behind the iPhone why should it be priced the same? You could apply the same spurious argument to S40 devices - if priced at the same level as the iPhone they would not sell therefore they are no good. They are what they are and are priced accordingly.So, either the N8 is as good as the iPhone and should be at the same price level - in which case it will definitely be a bargain when it comes out - or the N8 is not as good as the iPhone and this is taken into account in the price.
I look forward to seeing the answer when the N8 comes out.
Really? Maybe I should've quoted "hit", but I didn't want to sound too sarcastic. Just like Anssi said the N97 was a monetary success, but a customer experience disappointed. Maybe that would've rang better to you. You're words "They are what they are and are priced accordingly." are so vague trying to sound zen, but they're just cliche. So who's really spurious here- me, you, Anssi, or all of us?
Let's be honest - I've said this before. The N8 will be great - but only relative to past Symbian devices and at the price it's offered. But compared to the competition by the fall, it will look just as backwards as when N97 was launched right when the iPhone 3GS was released.
-Gene
Unregistered wrote:In my experience a quick email to the developer and they let you have another signed version, and lonelycat (profimail) do it automatically.
Again, not in my experience. One developer has even asked me to send a scan of documents certifying new phone ownership! I did not want to do that and have lost the software.
I have an iPad and comparing apps quality, selection, syncing with computer and purchasing (you do not need to give all your personal info including credit card number to all developers) there is just no comparison. For example there are so many internet radio apps it's difficult to count (like this one: http://www.wunderradio.com/) and there is nothing for Symbian...
Frankly, I do not care about Ovi Store any more, stopped buying any software (in fact nothing new is released except games, so there is nothing to buy) and just waiting for iPhone 4 😊
PS. ProfiMail can be installed only on one device at a time and phones home:
- A ProfiMail license is transferable to your new device during three years after the purchase, with a maximum of 20 times. After this, the license will be fixed to one device. Click here to transfer your purchased license to a new device.
- ProfiMail may perform online checks to verify your license on our LCG server, as well as for the purpose of license transfer. Click here for details.
slitchfield wrote:"i may have to find another site for my symbian/meego info."Presumably you won't bother registering there either, Mr Unregistered??
What I need is a plug-in for my browser that strips out anything 'Unregistered'!! 8-)
No, what you NEED to do is stop pissing about and turn on "registered users only" on this forum.
For me the Nokia decline has been a visible thing for quite a long time now. Almost two years ago I was so blown away by the pending N85, the new N95 with OLED screen, etc. I waited for its release which coincided with my contract upgrade. I'm still using my N85 a year and a half down the line but only because I can't afford to buy a new phone. And what an extremely painful year and a half that has been. Like all other Nokia smartphones the N85 came out with the most terribly buggy "pre"-release firmware that took months and months to be upgraded. It still has issues but recieves no more attention from Nokia. The hardware is so bad, such utter junk, that I have had to have it repaired many times.
My wife had a N82 for a long time. Steve always raved about this phone as being so hardy and the camera being so good but we always disagreed. Photos with my N85 were vastly better. She dropped it once and it was never the same again. She upgraded to E75 and that too fell apart in short order.
I have never used anything but Nokia Symbian for a lot of years and have not had the opportunity to compare other brands/OS's and so cannot say if anything else will provide me a better, less frustrating experience. All I know is that I'm very very tired of what I DO know! The hardware, the software, the services. Quite simply...they suck.
I have waited a long time for the N900 and, through no fault of Nokia, it has still not been officially realesed by South African carriers. But what I have come to realise recently is that I will not be going down Nokia road again. It took Ricky Caddens final Symbian-Guru post to shock me into awakeness.
Unregistered wrote:You're words "They are what they are and are priced accordingly." are so vague trying to sound zen, but they're just cliche. So who's really spurious here- me, you, Anssi, or all of us?
-Gene
I've never been called mystic before 😊 To put it another way, S40 offers a cheap spec at a cheap price but they are not aimed at the geeks like us who read these forums.
To give a comparison, I'd compare the iPhone to a B&O hi-fi system. You're getting a quality item but paying over the odds for the design. I guess the middle option where price and spec. balance out would be the Android phones in general (there will always be exceptions).
Does that make sense now?
http://www.electronista.com/articles/10/07/02/nokia.confirmed.losing.share/
this is what happens when you ignore your hardcore fans for too long and when your "tech" company is headed by big ass CEOs whose academic backgrounds are business related only and are never interested in technology. Nokia board of directors should make sure that only people who find technology and innovation exciting, get to run the company...
Ian 2 wrote:Again, not in my experience. One developer has even asked me to send a scan of documents certifying new phone ownership! I did not want to do that and have lost the software.
.
Then you have a very different experience from me.
I have actually stopped buying apps from all playforms because they turn out to be 99% crap, and a waste of my time to download try and delete. That applies to Symbian, Apple and ESPECIALLY Android.
This does seem pertinent to the discussion and may explain (assuming the stats are a fair reflection or Nokia internal data is showing similar trends) why Anssi is suddenly engaging with such force. Maybe serious alarm bells are starting to ring if their Western European share is really falling off a cliff.
http://www.electronista.com/articles/10/07/02/nokia.confirmed.losing.share/
slitchfield wrote:Just noting that there are loads of Internet Radio apps for S60 5th Edition. And an Evernote client. And Dropbox's mobile site should work. Google Maps w/satellite imagery is native, BT drivers work fine from older S60 versions download.Though admittedly not all the above are in the 'Ovi Store'. You have to put in a little Googling etc 8-(
A really good ebook system for Symbian would be good though.
Googling ? Discoverability, thats one of the major problems with Ovi Steve. I really wish Nokia will improve and I love Symbian but no one (even a major fan as yourself) will deny that Nokia has made a pigs ear of it. I've seen some of the videos of the N8 and for all the nice things about it; HDMI, Dolby etc, I cannot believe that Nokia have not made simple cosmetic changes to the stock applications especially the browser - same old, same old - its disgusting and quite unbelievable that they've neglected a problem that could have been addressed so easily. Nokia is blind to aesthetics period. I applied a nice theme to my 5800XM and suddenly it looks the part, why does Nokia insist on using the MS DOS like theme with a font that reminds me of the early 1990s. Yes theme can be changed, but Nokia should provide a decent out of the box experience as not everybody will go through the effort of changing themes etc.
I really want to buy the N8 but I probably wont because Nokia is too set in its ways and appears indifferent to its customers needs. Fighting talk is good but we want to see more action.
Steve, if you truly want Nokia's / Symbians survival then you have to be more vocal about these issues and stop defending the indefensible. See how Symbian guru, Rick got them moving. Thanks for the service you provide to the community but you would do well to stop sounding like a Nokia apologist at every turn.
I will keep waiting for Nokia to get this right, they make the best hardware (the 5800 is great for music and the speakers do the job quite ok). I dont want big brother Android or control freak iPhone but the patience of longsuffering Nokia/Symbian fans can only take so much. Steve, Rafe, Euan - STAND up for us.!!!! :frown: