There's been a lot of noise on the internet this week about issues in the smartphone world. And while the initial reading of all these words is to tell a story, it's actually more about controlling the PR message and protecting a brand (and ergo sales) of software and hardware. There's a lesson in all of this for Nokia and the Symbian Foundation. You've either got it, or you haven't. And right now Symbian and S60 don't have it. Read on...
Read on in the full article.
Could Nokia get away with releasing a device that lost a signal if held properly?
Funny thing is, they have. Since Apples signal problems got 'exposed', it also threw the light on other phones that apparently have a similar issue. Its been discussed on several forums and almost every podcast in the last couple of weeks.
Thats the downside about PR and the press. They can make you look like the second coming, or bite you in the ass. (and they're generally happier to do the latter)
i agree with this article but we all need to be VERY wary of a US-centric view.
Nokia/Symbian are very much aspired to in much of the world, with Nokia smartphones having over 60% smartphone market share in the combined Europe, Middle East and Africa region and over 80% in Asia-Pacific.
Much of the noise we in the UK, US and Australia hear is from US based or biased media. They REALLY do not understand Nokia or Symbian, or like them, and there is also a significant pride issue in that Apple and Google are loud and proud American companies, while Nokia to them is some 'dodgy foreigner'.
We recently saw huge queues in Indonesia for i think the new Nokia X3. What exactly is so different between that and queues outside Apple stores for iPhone 4? Nothing. Nothing unless we in the UK or US think we're the centre of the mobile universe, which we're not.
Apple phones has os upgrades for 2 years. Android depending on the phone some got few but some lots.
So from that stand point any phone with symbian that doesn't get major os upgrades is already dead. This is further compounded by the fact symbian announced the end of the road for the current UI and starting over.
Nokia is selling more Symbian phones as the os gets pushed down but that is the problem as its the high end phones gets the buzz.
The real problem is that Nokia and Symbian keeps beating themselves up internally.
Why bother pouring resources into Symbian^3 or Symbian^4 when Meego is coming around the corner. Why not just stabilize and simplify S60v3 and get it leaner, especially since memory and resource requirements shot up between FP1 and FP2? Why keep sending these conflicting messages to consumers and developers that make them scratch their heads? It's better to just make the one bet and focus on getting it right instead of trying to make sure two parties aren't stepping on each other. Everyone keeps harping Qt, but where is there one single productivity app built on Qt for Nokia? And one that will work with both platforms? Anything demoed? At all?!?! It all sounds vaporware-ish, like Java everywhere, but Java S60v3 apps won't work on S60v5, and vice versa. The only thing compelling I've seen from Java ME on S60 is Opera Mini.
These are the real reasons Symbian is so hated by the industry now, not because of Apple or Android. No one knows what Symbian can offer now, and every fanboy here is basically harping on accomplishments that were done FOUR YEARS AGO at their height with the N95 & N73 and handsets under OMAP. Symbian has offered nothing compelling ever since, yet flailed around like a headless beast, which truly explains the market share slide. It sounds so much like the dying trying to hold on to the past. Sheesh!
Symbian better hit a homerun coming fall, or else they're pretty much going to go the way of Palm OS, except I doubt there will be a buyer like Access around. Every fanboy in those days defended Palm OS to the hilt with market share, installed base, blah blah until they fell off a cliff. Nokia will still be around for a long while, but it's future is definitely set in Meego.
-Gene
If Motorola can do it(or at least be on the right track), so can Nokia- even though they don't have the luxury of having good street cred in the US; where all the opinion-leaders and developers are.
Apogolist article again. So boring. All About Anssi strikes again.
Hih wrote:Apogolist article again. So boring. All About Anssi strikes again.
Negative post again from someone that can't spell. So boring.
gadget freak wrote:Could Nokia get away with releasing a device that lost a signal if held properly?Funny thing is, they have. Since Apples signal problems got 'exposed', it also threw the light on other phones that apparently have a similar issue. Its been discussed on several forums and almost every podcast in the last couple of weeks.
But almost every other phone maker has reasonably good signal reception qualities to start with. iPhone can't afford to lose bars because its radio is poort.
There's a reason why bloggers in the US are very biased against Nokia and Symbian. Nokia just doesn't give a damn about marketing over here and cares even less about tailoring their products to an American audience. I'm not saying they should put the US first and so on, I just don't really see why an average American (non-techies who don't read cell-phone OS blogs) would want a high end Nokia phone over an iPhone or Android. Those phones are tailored to the market. Hell, I'm really only gonna be buying the N8 for the camera. I don't expect the Ovi store to ever be worth a damn or for there to ever be an abundance of apps for it.
I love Nokia products and I've had multiple Nokia phones, but I'm starting to get a little jealous of my friends with Android's and iPhones. It'd be different if I lived in Europe or India....but I don't. If you're going to release a product in a certain territory, don't treat them like 2nd class citizens.
Just read on Daily Mobile that a Poll was made to see how many people would the next phone the bought would be a Nokia one an only 34% said yes,as people switching to iPhone or a Anroid phone,Nokia have invested loads into Symbian but the Software as been Very slow to Progress,Nokia have really now get themselves organised as they will be losing the European market to Samsung,as they use Bada an Anroid software on there mobiles,an the looks of there mobiles attract more than Plastic Nokia,O.k the Refurbished material Nokia use might be cost saving but,Plastic stratches an marks more easily,Nokia N8 a metal casing that looks Top Class but then the C6 a Plastic body that makes the phone look cheap,please produce more attcractive phones in Metal or you will lose more customers Nokia an its your Fault
"only 34% said yes"? you mean that in the poll Nokia would have 34% of marketshare? or was the poll only addressed to current Nokia users?
In any case, companies have priorities in marketing products, that's perfectly normal. Also Apple releases products in the US first.
Further, I don't think that Docomo will be dead in 2 years because I cannot buy their phones in Europe...
Some of the comments here from Nokia apologists are comical.
May I present to you a few links?
Let's start with a Gartner analyst:
http://blogs.gartner.com/nick_jones/2010/07/11/is-symbian-re-arranging-the-deck-chairs-on-the-titanic/
Go ahead and tell this respected analyst he's a "hater".
Next, let me remind you of Rick Cadden from symbian-guru.com, I don't think I need to tell you who this die-hard Nokia fan is:
http://www.symbian-guru.com/welcome/2010/07/symbian-guru-com-is-over.html
Go and tell Ricky and many of the people that agree with him that they are "haters".
Now, let me direct you towards Trentonn Smith, a long time Nokia supporter and fanatic:
http://www.trentsense.com/2010/07/nokia-rant.html
Go and tell Trent that he is a "moron".
Lastly, I give you Russell Beattie, a Nokia employee. This man has more smarts than all of us put together. Please follow him on Twitter and make sure to let him know that S60/Symbian is great.
C'mon Symbian fans, the all 7 of you... go ahead and tell these respected individuals that they are "haters", go argue with them. Let's see how you do.
To me Nokia's downfall is endemic in their historic attitude to OS upgrades on all their smartphones. E.g.
Many Windows Mobile phones got upgrades from 6.0 to 6.1 or 6.5
Most recent Android phones got upgrades for 1.x to 2.x (and some hinted for 3.0)
Most recent Blackberry phones got upgrades from 4.0 to 5.x (and RIM hinting at 6.0)
All these updates gave major improvements in features and functionality.
Compare this to Nokia who have NEVER (AFAIK) upgraded any phone beyond its original FeaturePack level - e.g. if you buy a Nokia phone on S60 FP1, you'll be stuck with that until you throw it away. Even the N900, Nokia's most expensive phone, was supplied with an already obsolescent OS, with the move to "Meego" unsupported by Nokia.
No wonder then, that with overpriced hardware, a botched and dead OS, no "wow" factor to attract future investment, and a "we've got your money, now get stuffed" attitude to device future-proofing and upgradability, most people simply see Symbian as irrelevant.
Nokia's problems are actually the result of their past success, and it's also similar to the problem that Microsoft also now faces: they're both so big, bloated and far flung with so many divisions and layers of management and bureaucracies, kind of like mini governments, that they're slow to act quickly to market forces.
Both companies are solidly in re-active mode, which has hurt them in industries that requires nimble companies and quick decision making. Just look at Google; they're issuing a new, updated, more feature packed version of Android virtually every 4-6 months. Meego and Symbian should be so lucky to get updated that quickly.
Also, as Ewan alludes, perception is key and Nokia (and Microsoft) are just simply, currently, uncool. And when you're dropping $300-$500 on a new gadget, cool-ness matters. The last time Nokia was really cool, they made the Matrix phone that Keanu used in the movie of the same name.
Right now Nokia is selling low volume not so high margin or high volume low margin smart phones but are picking up the tab for the development for Symbian, Meego as well as S40.
Google pays for Android development while Apple spreads the cost of iOS from iPod Touch, iPhone, iPad to even the desktop/laptop/servers. Android phones tend to be and of course iphone are high margin products so of course those manufacturers can give away an os upgrade.
Nokia isn't playing in the OS upgrade game. Bad enough on its own but then you further add an S60 UI and Maemo tha'ts known to be a dead end.
How else should analysts and consumers react to Nokia smart phones.
In years past Nokia could at least count on more powerful hardware but now they don't even have that.
Hard to fight an PR battle when others proudly display their 1ghz processors while Nokia tends to even initially hide what it has under the hood.
This is what i wrote to Nick"Gartner Analyst".
I think the moral of my comment was one of the parts of this article.
I think my comment on Gartner's post is same to your comment below.
"
Nick, i am sorry to say this to a person of your level, but will still say.
I am an average common man with no disposable cash or not enough non-disposable cash. I think people like you, i.e analysts, bloggers and media people are giving unfair importance to UI than anything else.
Yes UI is important, but i blame you and others to make it the most important part when deciding to buy a handset. It is because of these kind of widespread articles that people change their thinking, since they are highly influenced by thinking.
Yes, even if S^3 UI is evolutionary(and not revolutionary, which was already conveyed by SF and Nokia), if it removes the single tap/double tap issue, that itself is the single most important improvement that can reduce lot of frustration. That doesn�t mean more things can be improved, sure it can be and i believe will be.
I believe,if people were satisfied with a functional (not necessarily flashy) UI, which did not have any use-case frustrations, but gave more importance to the technology and what you can do with the device, then it would be a totally different playground.
Currently, what lot of common persons like me are being fooled and mis-guided to believe that UI is the most important thing when you decide to buy a handset, don�t worry about how powerful is, or what more things you can do. The current mentality is that, oh ok, there is X feature not present out of the box in the phone, you can buy an app for that, if available and someone will develop the app for that.
So in the end, i end up spending for useless or useful apps, which could have been present out of the box included in the price of the device, but no, you want common man to spend money on apps.
I have seen people spending money on �Fart-like� apps for iphone, but then they cry for $1-$2 in other things. They are ready to spend $500 for ipad/iphones, but won�t wear good clothes. I am just giving few examples, doesn�t mean that applies to majority, but people�s thinking and mentality and expectations do change and have changed due to these kind of articles online and marketing too. (by others).
But again, i do agree that UI is important but not so much important as you are making it out to be. I bet that if there are even 50 blog sites who write something like what i have mentioned above and maintain that consistent thinking, their readers mentality will start to change. It�s all about how you make people dance.
Like yours, this was just my opinion on the subject.
"
Arthur wrote:Some of the comments here from Nokia apologists are comical.May I present to you a few links?
Let's start with a Gartner analyst:
http://blogs.gartner.com/nick_jones/2010/07/11/is-symbian-re-arranging-the-deck-chairs-on-the-titanic/Go ahead and tell this respected analyst he's a "hater".
Next, let me remind you of Rick Cadden from symbian-guru.com, I don't think I need to tell you who this die-hard Nokia fan is:
http://www.symbian-guru.com/welcome/2010/07/symbian-guru-com-is-over.htmlGo and tell Ricky and many of the people that agree with him that they are "haters".
Now, let me direct you towards Trentonn Smith, a long time Nokia supporter and fanatic:
http://www.trentsense.com/2010/07/nokia-rant.htmlGo and tell Trent that he is a "moron".
Lastly, I give you Russell Beattie, a Nokia employee. This man has more smarts than all of us put together. Please follow him on Twitter and make sure to let him know that S60/Symbian is great.
C'mon Symbian fans, the all 7 of you... go ahead and tell these respected individuals that they are "haters", go argue with them. Let's see how you do.
If I talk to people I work with who are not particularly interested in phone technology, they have no idea whatsoever about the kind of topics and detail discussied on AAS. These people are the vast majority of people.
What the specs and details show are of no concern, what the web commentators and analysts say is of no concern to them. They don't care about any of this stuff (and increasingly with experience neither do I).
They will buy what looks good to them on the day or what is offered to them at upgrade time. This increasingly applies to smartphones, with ther mp3 players, games and maps.
So the PR battle is won with the mass media advertising, not the actual perceived performance of the devices.
For most, most of this stuff just doesn't matter. I have also discovered if this or that pedantic detail is missing, it's not the end of the world. Soon, within a couple of years, the smartphone market will level out and everything will need to be sold on price then style anyway.
"some manufacturing problems, some unfortunate memory decisions and under-developed software "
Hello - what ELSE is there in a phone? The N97, of which I am an unfortunate owner, was an unmitigated disaster. Make no mistake, Symbian was never fashionable, just functional. People bought N97 for its lovely build, form factor, and kitchen-sink specs, not to mention the 32 GB memory chip.
Guess what: 'lovely build' resulted in tarnished cameras, form factor was crippled due to a near-useless keyboard, and 32GB memory did an admirable job of bringing the phone to its knees if ever filled even halfway through. Here was a phone that seemed to be made by three different teams. ALso, given its price and flaghship billing, Nokia did a shameful job of underpowering the device.
THen came N900. IT was and is an amazing device, but by limiting the OS to just one phone, and later rolling it into the Meego shebang, Nokia shot itself in the foot. Here was a phone that even Engadget loved, and had all the features, just one CRIPPLING problem i.e. the horrible portrait/lanscape conundrum. To use the phone you had to click on the icon, the turn the phone to portrait and wait for the damned screen to follow you. It was a no-brainer to switch everything in N series to Maemo, keep the OS alive and kicking, and ensure enough dev support to maintain momentum vs Android, but alas it was not to be.
The 2010 phones from Nokia are relics of the past, running two/three different OSes which have not been updated in years, thus rightly earning the perception as a builder of good cheap phones.
Sorry, but after using HTC DEsire for five minutes, I realized how I had wasted my life and productivity by using/supporting Symbian and Nokia for years, invested in duds like N97, and suffered needless personal depression and headache. Somehow, you stop caring about FM Transmitters and TV Outs when you are trying to type a text and the keypad is not responding, or open two web pages and the phone slows down to a crawl.
I think the only salvation for Nokia in smartphone space is Meego and not Symbian, which should be relegated to the c-series lineup as an S40 replacement. Useful for NOkia, Symbian and consumers.
Unregistered wrote:The real problem is that Nokia and Symbian keeps beating themselves up internally.Why bother pouring resources into Symbian^3 or Symbian^4 when Meego is coming around the corner. Why not just stabilize and simplify S60v3 and get it leaner, especially since memory and resource requirements shot up between FP1 and FP2? Why keep sending these conflicting messages to consumers and developers that make them scratch their heads? It's better to just make the one bet and focus on getting it right instead of trying to make sure two parties aren't stepping on each other. Everyone keeps harping Qt, but where is there one single productivity app built on Qt for Nokia? And one that will work with both platforms? Anything demoed? At all?!?! It all sounds vaporware-ish, like Java everywhere, but Java S60v3 apps won't work on S60v5, and vice versa. The only thing compelling I've seen from Java ME on S60 is Opera Mini.
MeeGo is very important to Nokia, but the suggestion that it could replace everything Symbian does is incorrect. As thing stands the hardware requirement for MeeGo are going to making it very hard for it it get on a device below $300 as a minimum (ignoring the fact Nokia are positioning it as a premium product).
The message of Symbian / MeeGo from Nokia is quite clear and has been since late last year. If people ignore or can't understand what they are hearing there is only so much Nokia can do. One bet (one platform) might easier to explain to people, but that not make it the right technical solution.
Qt apps - how about the Orange Wednesday app we mentioned on the site last week, how about the Skype app? The majority of OffScreen apps (running on both the N900 and Symbian^1) are powered by Qt. This trend is going to accelerate once MeeGo and Symbian^3 are on the market . So no its not vapour and yes it does work.
I'd also say there's quite a number of good Java apps out there too.
Unregistered wrote:They will buy what looks good to them on the day or what is offered to them at upgrade time. This increasingly applies to smartphones, with ther mp3 players, games and maps.So the PR battle is won with the mass media advertising, not the actual perceived performance of the devices.
For most, most of this stuff just doesn't matter. I have also discovered if this or that pedantic detail is missing, it's not the end of the world. Soon, within a couple of years, the smartphone market will level out and everything will need to be sold on price then style anyway.
It is very easy to forget this. Cost is always the most under-rated factor in many of these arguments. Style is inevitably more subjective and varies by market (look at the differing attitudes towards companies - e.g. Samsung in Europe versus Samsung in the US).
I agree anyway, UI is overated, does it work, does it work easily. the vast majority of people do not sync with their computer, do not install ovi suite etc, the vast majority haven't a clue about firmware updates, patches, rootings, flashing. Folks roll up sign their contract and expect it to work.
Apple can get away with flaws but nokia have used up their PR quota, The N8 needs to be good out the box
gadget freak wrote:I agree anyway, UI is overated, does it work, does it work easily. the vast majority of people do not sync with their computer, do not install ovi suite etc, the vast majority haven't a clue about firmware updates, patches, rootings, flashing. Folks roll up sign their contract and expect it to work.Apple can get away with flaws but nokia have used up their PR quota, The N8 needs to be good out the box
Nokia have been bitten by products released early, insufficiently tested, or with insufficiently tested operator modifications. Had that on the N73, and as soon as I went over to vanilla firmware, it was fine (and from what I've read, similar issues on the N97, 5800, N95, etc). Catch is that no typical user should ever have to be doing such changes - as you said, it should just work out of the box.
Interestingly the current claimed issues with the iPhone 4 antenna are generating more negativity on the apple forums than I would have expected, so while they've still got an incredibly strong image, their apparent perfection appears to finally be slightly tarnished.
I asked at my local Orange shop about a possible release date of the N8. Interesting comment from the member of staff - not sure they'll be getting it, as the N series "aren't compatible with the Orange software".
That shows a total lack of knowledge - they had the X6 and 5230 in there. Both are N series in all but name.
I've been pleasantly surprised by the reliability of the 5230 - its by far and away the most stable Symbian phone I've owned since the Siemens SX1. And with the comments from some of the N8 team on here and other forums, it does sound like they're fairly confident of releasing a good and reliable product.
The UI is the single most important part of any product - phone, washing machine, car, breakfast cereal. If the user interface/experience is poor (as it absolutely, undoubtedly, definitively is for the various flavours of Symbian at present) then the product is poor. Period.
It may be a hugely capable product but if using its functionality is not easy, then there was no point in constructing it in the first place. There is absolutely no reason why users of any consumer product should expect to become expert in its use: a good consumer product design assumes that the user should in fact NOT be required to be expert at all. Amazing as it may seem to those of us who spend way too much time thinking about phones, most people have other things that concern them more and that is no bad thing.
This is what Apple understood and why Google redeveloped the then-nascent Android in the wake of the iPhone OS launching. There is no functionality in any iPhone that is original but using it is straightforward and comprehensibe to anyone, regardless of experience: that's product development genius.
Personally, I found the iPhone experience enjoyable but get more from Android and dislike Apple's closed approach. I've used almost every flavour of Symbian device - and would love to be buyign Nokia again - but they don't stack up against the competition right now (and haven't for several years) in any area except value for money (ie Nokia has amazing deals with operator re-sellers). And they don't stack up because the user experience/UI is apalling - to the point where some installed applications are so difficult to use it's not worth the effort (and don't get me started on the email client...).
The subtext of Ewan's article appears to be that all that's wrong with Symbian is bad PR - if that's what he intended, that's nonsense. What's wrong with Symbian is a fundamental dissconnect with the needs of the consumer.
He is right to say, however, that PR carries enormous weight with the consumer - about equal to the weight an in-store salesperson can bring to bear in my view. But ultimately, consumers are smarter than ever right now and no product will long survive fundamental flaws, however good its PR. That's not just true of phones, though, that's true of anything.
Rafe wrote:MeeGo is very important to Nokia, but the suggestion that it could replace everything Symbian does is incorrect. As thing stands the hardware requirement for MeeGo are going to making it very hard for it it get on a device below $300 as a minimum (ignoring the fact Nokia are positioning it as a premium product).The message of Symbian / MeeGo from Nokia is quite clear and has been since late last year. If people ignore or can't understand what they are hearing there is only so much Nokia can do. One bet (one platform) might easier to explain to people, but that not make it the right technical solution.
Qt apps - how about the Orange Wednesday app we mentioned on the site last week, how about the Skype app? The majority of OffScreen apps (running on both the N900 and Symbian^1) are powered by Qt. This trend is going to accelerate once MeeGo and Symbian^3 are on the market . So no its not vapour and yes it does work.
I'd also say there's quite a number of good Java apps out there too.
It is very easy to forget this. Cost is always the most under-rated factor in many of these arguments. Style is inevitably more subjective and varies by market (look at the differing attitudes towards companies - e.g. Samsung in Europe versus Samsung in the US).
Hi Rafe,
I've never said that Symbian will disappear, just like I stressed that Symbian should just focus on tightening up S60v3. As for Offscreen, as I said - none of them ever work cross platform platform. Else I would've seen things like Level working on S60v3 platforms. And for Java stuff, I've never seen any USEFUL Java apps working on my old N95 and STILL work on my N97 - they always throw some sort of Java exception when working out of the platform it was built for on startup. I like developing on Java and have developed for 13 years now on it as well, but I know it's limitations, and UI is definitely Java's poor spot. And for Skype, why do I still need to get either the S60v3 package or S60v5 package?! Why should there be any awareness of this? After nearly a decade of touch and mobile UI development, you'd think the canvas scaling, unifying touch and key input, and other UI issues would be resolved by now, especially since there are really only two resolutions to work with in the Symbian market today.
As for cost, I understand cost is a big factor, else I would never have bought Nokia ever again (I just picked up an E72 for my wife on the REAL CHEAP, and she loves it, but she HATES S60v5, even though my N97 never crashed on her ever while she used it), but here again it proves my point - Symbian^3 is too costly of a move for Nokia to make just to make so little ground, especially since there seems to be much further progress on Meego, but S60v3 still seems to be an extremely solid platform that has lots of legs, so why make Nokia split their efforts in two? Just to satisfy the fanboys here? And Nokia's value is really on the low margin, low end market, and no one is disputing that. But it just seems like a crappy uphill battle for them - business devices are starting move beyond the RIMM/Blackberry form factor, and people with real disposable income that's willing to pay the premium is looking WAY beyond Symbian. If you look at it carefully, there's not much a difference between a really nice dumbphone and the typical E-device anymore. If you really want S60/Symbian to succeed, it's probably best that Nokia takes it in the same direction as Palm Treos - put a small touch screen against E-series devices and observe the eco-system from there. Palm Treos didn't die because of lack of fancy UI features - it died because the OS really didn't keep up with things like multitasking, multimedia support, etc. But Symbian has a real chance to fill this space still, instead everyone here keeps telling Nokia to pour everything they got into "fixing up the Symbian UI". What a waste of time!!! S60v3 UI seems to be perfectly fine at the moment. Maybe you're argument now will be that S60v5 is just an extension of S60v3, but it doesn't seem that way from my user experience - apps in s60v3 doesn't always work in s60v5.
I don't wish Symbian to die, but it just seems like A REAL WASTE OF TALENT to go into Symbian^3 and Symbian^4!!! And the fanboys here just muddy Nokia's focus even further by throwing such ridiculous red herrings at them. If you want S60 to survive, tell Nokia to focus their efforts and NOT BEAT EACH OTHER UP internally.
-Gene
Rafe wrote:MeeGo is very important to Nokia, but the suggestion that it could replace everything Symbian does is incorrect. As thing stands the hardware requirement for MeeGo are going to making it very hard for it it get on a device below $300 as a minimum (ignoring the fact Nokia are positioning it as a premium product).The message of Symbian / MeeGo from Nokia is quite clear and has been since late last year. If people ignore or can't understand what they are hearing there is only so much Nokia can do. One bet (one platform) might easier to explain to people, but that not make it the right technical solution.
Qt apps - how about the Orange Wednesday app we mentioned on the site last week, how about the Skype app? The majority of OffScreen apps (running on both the N900 and Symbian^1) are powered by Qt. This trend is going to accelerate once MeeGo and Symbian^3 are on the market . So no its not vapour and yes it does work.
I'd also say there's quite a number of good Java apps out there too.
It is very easy to forget this. Cost is always the most under-rated factor in many of these arguments. Style is inevitably more subjective and varies by market (look at the differing attitudes towards companies - e.g. Samsung in Europe versus Samsung in the US).
One last thing, Rafe - I thought developers have already left the notion of "write once run anywhere" or else JAVA would never have been bought by Oracle for a song. It's a pipe-dream to believe that you write once, you can just pretend that the rewards will be reaped by trying to distribute to any platform. Ask most successful developers, and it's really about the installed base for a platform, and how well that platform dedicates support to developers, so true partnership. If you notice, Java actually succeeds in the server space, and I don't argue you can write common components in the lower level (thus the popularity of PIPS, despite it's bugginess), but once you get to the UI level, the successful developer really just try to leverage the native UI library to the max, because it's quicker to deliver, instead of being lazy and hope dev UI issues across platforms can be easily resolved by some magical library to covers everything up. The only cross platform that has truly succeeded so far is the Web, and even that's a complete mess.
-Gene
Gene
Just to reply in brief. I agree about the potential of S60 3rd - or rather the importance of keeping non-touch device going (I'm a happy E72 user after all)... but touchscreens mean Symbian^1 or greater. There are plenty of cheap touchsreen devices (Nokia 5230). Nokia will want to continue that. Or put another way that touch is such a major thing, across all market segments, that Symbian has to address it in a meaningful way.
It also worth bearing in mind that a lot of the technologies (and costs) involved in developing Symbian^3 are for lower level stuff (e.g. new graphics architecture), which is necessary for Symbian^4 and beyond. The UI changes, as we all know, are relatively minor and were not the major development effort on Symbian^3 (the opposite is true on Symbian^4).
The Offscreen example I mentioned is cross platform between Maemo and Symbian^1 (S60 5th Edition). S60 3rd Edition is not there yet, but will be... though honestly I expect to see less cross over here given the respective screen technologies. Different install packages aren't ideal I agree, but with the proper backends this is hidden from users anyway (e.g. downloading from Ovi Store).
And yes I largely agree with you on the write once, run anywhere thing. I think though that a hybrid approach is a very real possibility... i.e. use Qt as a common denominator and optimise for the UI on each platform / device. Interesting with Qt there is potential for writing this UI in a common way (Qt Quick, Qt UI frameworks on respective platforms etc.).
This point was brushed off in the PR discussion. I does call for more analysis
PR is important, but only of any value when you have the end user experience to back it up and support it.
There's a reason Apple are sitting on some $25 billion of cash reserves, despite sales volumes much lower than the likes of Nokia. Anyone that says either PR or device UI aren't important, they need to rethink that stance, or continue to bury their heads in the sand.
Yes Nokia still sell loads of 'smart' phones, but they are heavily promoted through the networks, and relative to their capabilities, low cost. They are in a different market space at present to Apple and the high end Android devices and that's an important thing to realise. They may have a sustainable business in this area, but the only way to get the sort of money that Apple seems capable of amassing is to increase those margins considerably and that means increased cost to the end user, which means the reason for spending that extra money has to be utterly compelling.
I'm no Apple fan, but I can really appreciate what they do well, which is to make high technology items utterly simple and intuitive to use. I had a play with an iPad at the weekend and whilst I still came away from that with no desire to have one in *my* life, it was fascinating to see anyone, from small children, to elderly grandparents, pick it up and use it without any apparent thought. You just touch it, and things happen that make sense. For consumer with high disposable income that's the way to gain sales. They're not geeks and aren't prepared to invest time and effort into careful optimising the device or using workarounds to make the device work for them.
There isn't a single Nokia / Symbian device that brings that user experience at present.
Apple and the other newcomers to the smartphone market are spreading through the passionate and enthusiastic proselytizing of their user base and the tech press. It's this element that Nokia are missing out on at present; there's nothing 'impressive' to show people, the slick UI and the ease of use that's present on other devices is absent from current Nokia range. The upcoming Nokia N8 looks interesting and obviously has an awesome camera, something Nokia are putting a big spotlight on, but how many many end users will care? Many of the curent high end devices don't have cameras as good as even 3yr old Nokia's, but has that stopped their sales growth? No.
The great engineers at Nokia need to realise that it's not the specs that sell the product, it's the user experience as a whole. This lack of holistic approach is the root cause of the problem, in my view. Couple Nokia's prodigious hardware talent with some better end-user experience and I see no reason why they can't reclaim this ground.
There's an old adage in engineering that's as true now as it ever was: -
"A system is only as good as its weakest link"
Those weak links are what Nokia needs to concentrate on. A great camera won't overcome a lack of RAM / poor UI / buggy software / an app store that doesn't work etc. etc.
When it takes 9 button clicks on my Nokia phone to perform an operation that I *don't even have to do* on my Milestone (changing screen brightness for anyone interested), the problem becomes painfully apparent. The Milestone has an ambient light sensor that works properly and so the need to adjust manually is totally eliminated. My Nokia has a sensor too, but it the software behind it doesn't work properly, so manual intervention is required.
It's why I think the recent article on here about UI was both interesting and disingenuous at the same time.
I agree that little has changed in UI over the years (Palm Pre being the only obvious exception to this, although the old themes are still present , even there), but this is a very simple view of UI.
UI *is* the experience the end user has, more than it is about how things look or are laid out. So yes, all we need to do is fix the current UI, but that UI is wrong, simply because it doesn't work with the user, so many times it works against them.
I'm sure the example above seems utterly unimportant to many here, but I use it as an illustration, it's just one of many similar annoyances, that, by themselves, aren't a big deal. The problem comes that there's so many 'little' things wrong, that it adds up to a whole that just leaves me and most of the tech press cold.
So yes, PR is important, but the only way that will work in my view is to get that passion and enthusiasm in the user base, such that the best sales tactic of all, that of personal recommendation, works once again.
Andy Weekes.
Rafe wrote:GeneJust to reply in brief. I agree about the potential of S60 3rd - or rather the importance of keeping non-touch device going (I'm a happy E72 user after all)... but touchscreens mean Symbian^1 or greater. There are plenty of cheap touchsreen devices (Nokia 5230). Nokia will want to continue that. Or put another way that touch is such a major thing, across all market segments, that Symbian has to address it in a meaningful way.
It also worth bearing in mind that a lot of the technologies (and costs) involved in developing Symbian^3 are for lower level stuff (e.g. new graphics architecture), which is necessary for Symbian^4 and beyond. The UI changes, as we all know, are relatively minor and were not the major development effort on Symbian^3 (the opposite is true on Symbian^4).
The Offscreen example I mentioned is cross platform between Maemo and Symbian^1 (S60 5th Edition). S60 3rd Edition is not there yet, but will be... though honestly I expect to see less cross over here given the respective screen technologies. Different install packages aren't ideal I agree, but with the proper backends this is hidden from users anyway (e.g. downloading from Ovi Store).
And yes I largely agree with you on the write once, run anywhere thing. I think though that a hybrid approach is a very real possibility... i.e. use Qt as a common denominator and optimise for the UI on each platform / device. Interesting with Qt there is potential for writing this UI in a common way (Qt Quick, Qt UI frameworks on respective platforms etc.).
Still, we end up with fractured, mediocre solutions going this route then. Why stretch the weaker player thin, when instead you could make the stronger player cover more tasks instead? The former tactic almost always leads to failure at the end in team dynamics in real life, while the latter tactics makes effective use of team strengths.
E.g. - why have Nokia force Symbian to rapidly grow and develop a competitive solution to the touch screen market, when they already had a great solution with a lower powered Maemo device? The N800 was a hit for it's time. The only thing it was missing was a WCDMA chip, quite frankly, but it ran great on (relatively) old OMAP 24xx hardware. In fact, if TI opened up on the Linux driver for it, I would say it would've rocked the entire PDA world at the time. So why waste so much effort supe-ing up Symbian, when they could just make a dumbed down version of Meego device to compete against Android and iOS? Then Symbian could concentrate on tactically and incrementally adding on the touch feature. The criticism that S60v5 seemed like a tacked-on solution comes from the fact that there was so much architectural change and so much expensive hype, but at the end the benefits seemed so little, thus the conclusion "tacked-on". I'm willing to bet that Nokia's touch product line would be 10x more successful if it went Maemo over Symbian, and that adoption by handset manufacturers would trounce Symbian.
As for "hybrid", in the real world, hybrid seems to lead to "half-ass". I do not believe in half-ass solutions, and "hybrid" is just a pseudonym for just that. I'm a strong believer in identifying and leveraging ppl's strength. This route just seems to completely avoid that exercise.
-Gene