So in just a few hours I intend to deploy my P800 in flight mode actually during a flight. :shocked!:
Does anyone have any suggestions as to how I can explain to the flight attendant that, although the thing in my hands does indeed look like a cellphone, and, for most of the time, also acts as one, at this precise instant it is, in fact, not a cellphone, and therefore quite safe to use!
Any "flight speak" phrases that work?
or do airlines now have photofits of "legal" PDAs?
Try explaining that when in the telephone mode it shows instead of the operator name a message flight mode should confirm that it is for flight. Also the left lower coner where usually are the marks showing signal strenght have a crossed out red circle. And if that is not enough my suggestion is to have a manual with you with the flight mode marked out.
My suggestions
take the keypad off - it will look like a pda.
i presume you would be using the phone in flip open mode anyway.
I think your subject title says it all "Flight Mode vs Flight Attendant".
If they insist that you have to turn it off and put it aside, I think just comply, because resistance is futile :robot:
Just last week I took an America West Flight from Las Vegas back to BWI airport, and at takeoff, the flight attendents said:
"...even if your device has a 'flight mode' or 'radio off' setting, you still have to turn it off and it cannot be turned back on until the plane lands..."
if they don't catch you, great...but if they do, don't make a fuss...airlines these days don't fool around with what they deem to be 'unruly passengers'
On Scandinavian Airlines I just told them it was a PDA and not a cellphone.
So... you don't think offering to phone SE on it so they can explain would be a good idea then?
I suspect it will be the "I'll turn it off if you give me all your vodka" approach then 😉
Some companies don't even allow you to use a single compact disk player, any electronic device to be more specific when on a flight. Are they so afraid? Thank God they are a minority...
Maybe put mobi book reader on it , take the flip off then rotate viewing to landscape and tell them its a book reader, once they are happy with that they might leave you alone when you start pulling out all the bells and whistles 😊
Despite there being no real evidence to back up the claims of it being dangerous, the airlines instill the fear of god into flight attendants about mobile phones (my missus is an ex flight attendant). I actually saw one scream at this guy, rip the cell phone out of his hand and turn it off a couple of years ago. She genuinely seemed to believe the plane would just drop out of the sky or something.
So it's best not to argue!
[quote="MemphisX"]Some companies don't even allow you to use a single compact disk player, any electronic device to be more specific when on a flight. Are they so afraid? Thank God they are a minority...[/quote]
I flew with Polkovo, on a Russian domestic flight recently... They told people to turn their phones off. But everyone just ignored the flight attendant and were using laptops, phone etc during takeoff and landing! 😮
I guess I'm lucky to be writing this! Bit dodgy to see the pilot with a spannar and torch looking at the radar nose cone whilst I was walking away from the plane!
Anyway, on a normal airline it really does come down to whether you can convince the flight attendant.
Heck, it is only a "possibility" that devices that transmi/connect to a network will interfere with the machines onboard! Geez, any devices including cellphones. You can wonder at their paranoid behaviours and understand their caution approach at the same time. Did she really screamed and did that!? 😃 Well, thats just plain substandard in service. 😃
[quote="enterprise"]I think your subject title says it all "Flight Mode vs Flight Attendant".
If they insist that you have to turn it off and put it aside, I think just comply, because resistance is futile :robot:[/quote]
Indeed it is, bear in mind that flight crews have strict regulations these days and they are under orders to act on any suspicion of potential troublemakers.
Some airlines even give their flighatendants pepperspray and handcuffs these days.
So if you mildly argue that you should be allowed to have the phone on and they still rebutt it, do COMPLY for the sake of your own safety.
Hmm.. Anyone remember the movie Anger Management? 😃 "Can I have a headset please?"
what i dont get is that whilst planes are taking off and landing they will be being bombarded by thousands of microwaves anyway as they pass through the streams to and from people using phones in and around the airport.
Seems a bit silly to me.
[quote="johnniechan"][quote="MemphisX"]Some companies don't even allow you to use a single compact disk player, any electronic device to be more specific when on a flight. Are they so afraid? Thank God they are a minority...[/quote]
I flew with Polkovo, on a Russian domestic flight recently... They told people to turn their phones off. But everyone just ignored the flight attendant and were using laptops, phone etc during takeoff and landing! 😮
I guess I'm lucky to be writing this! Bit dodgy to see the pilot with a spannar and torch looking at the radar nose cone whilst I was walking away from the plane!
Anyway, on a normal airline it really does come down to whether you can convince the flight attendant.[/quote]
Would this be the airline that were involved in that Instrument Landing incident a few years back?
Yes, but bear in mind that the announcement [if you actually get one] in Russian, translates as "do not use", as opposed to "turn off".
Having said that, the TU and AYs used by Aeroflot et al don't really have any electronics to speak of, so the problem is not as relevant. Only when you hit fly-by-wire does "beep-de-beep-de-beep" become a problem, because this tends to tell the leftmost engine to clean-cycle it's injectors. Or worse if you are flying the series 4. 😮
Flying in Russia, I worry much more about unsheduled landings in potato fields [2 off], loose fitting cabin doors (with stewardess deciding that kicking it is a good way of getting it to seal in flight) [1 off] and pilot running out of vodka [3 off], oh and there was the instance of a Russian deciding to clean his gun [!] whilst on the toilet [!!] and forgetting to empty the chamber first. Lucky some luggage was between his feet and the outside world.
Having now done this flight, armed with the suggestions herein, the only person that noticed the P800 was a young Latvian babe sitting next to me, who was far more interested in the fact that I could take pictures with it -- with the vague suggestion that it would constitute a proof of membership of Mile High.
The only problem I had is documented here, and is relatively mundane, but interesting to note.
A comment in The Register is appropriate - here.
Worth a read if you have a couple of minutes. 😊
Mobile in flight-safe mode may be used during flight
Scandinavian Airlines will be the first airline to allow the use of some mobile phone functions during flight. In the so-called flight-safe mode, the mobile phone is switched on without sending or receiving signals and won�t therefore affect flight security.
It is the latest mobile phones, such as the Sony Ericsson P800, which have this flight-safe mode. With this, the traveler on board a SAS flight can use a mobile phone to update his or her diary, write e-mail and take notes, edit documents, play games, listen to music and even take photos with a built-in camera � everything except make a phone call.
SAS passengers who have mobile phones equipped with the flight-safe mode can use them as work tools or for entertainment onboard, effective immediately.
"The objective is to meet the demand of customers to be able to work and communicate while traveling on land or in the air," says Ulf Ingn�s, head of Product Management In-flight, Scandinavian Airlines.
Travelers onboard Scandinavian Airlines can already use other electronic products that do not transmit or receive signals, such as portable PCs, PDAs, DVD/CD cassette players, electronic games and calculators.
Scandinavian Airlines plans to become the first airline in 2004 to offer Internet connection on board intercontinental flights.
"Our home market is the world�s most IT-dense region, so it is completely natural that we want to offer travelers the opportunity to use electronic gadgets whenever possible," says Ulf Ingn�s. "This is the reason we have an ongoing dialog with telecommunications producers."
Photo of a mobile phone user onboard can be seen at www.scandinavian.net under the About SAS/ Picture archive/ In the air.
For further information, please contact:
Ulf Ingn�s, Product Management In-flight, Scandinavian Airlines, tel. +46 (0) 8 797 17 08
SCANDINAVIAN AIRLINES
what i dont get is that whilst planes are taking off and landing they will be being bombarded by thousands of microwaves anyway as they pass through the streams to and from people using phones in and around the airport.
What they say (THEM, not me) is on the ground a mobile phone doesn't transmit much as they are near to cell sites, but 30,000 feet the phone transmits much more powerfully as it trys to find a signal, and this *CAN* cause problems. Personally I don't think its risky at all, but if the olicy is for the phone ot be turned off, then it won't hurt to comply. Its the same at petrol stations, turn the phone off, even though it won't cause problems.
I used mine fine the weekend, just took the keypad off 😊
I wonder if the "missile attack" a few episodes back on "24" was actually due to Jack Bauer continually using his cellphone?
😃
The BBC are on the bandwagon: 'Phone threat' to air safety.
Quoting 'Laptop' (Feb 03) p123, a US magazine:
The ban on using a cell phone in flight doesn't come from the Federal Aviation Authority (FAA), but from the Federal Communications Commission, which regulates telephone use. This ban is based on the fact that a cell phone signal traveling quickly in the air can access hundreds of cell towers, potentially disrupting cell phones on the ground.
So a flight mode gets around this problem but as all electrical devices (with the exception of digital cameras) can't be used during critical parts of the flight (takeoff and landing) they still must be off at those times.
That would only hold water in the US as the FCC has no authority outside.
In addition, bearing in mind that there are 5,280 feet in a mile and most planes fly at 35000 feet, you are roughly 7 miles away from your nearest base station. If base stations could transmit that well, you would hardly ever loose signal on the ground!
The upshot of it is EMC considerations. Military equipment has far more stringent EMC restrictions than commercial airliners and they don't allow mobiles either. It is not the case of one phone causing disruption but the cumulative effect of several hundred.
The final thing to realise is that if one plane goes down due to a phone, then the airlines will be open to major lawsuits. Better blanket ban them and not take the risk?
If base stations could transmit that well, you would hardly ever loose signal on the ground!
True, but 7miles isn't all that far, given cell radii (~20km) esp as there is line of site ie no interference from mountains/buildings etc. Also, we know first hand that phones do work in planes up in the sky - remember 9/11?
Anyway, the point is, in flight-mode, its acting like any other electrical device and not explicitly emitting a signal (GSM/CDMA, Bluetooth or IR) so its no problem, providing you can convince the steward(ess)es of this.
I've just had 2 cases, one on BA, one on Qantas where I had to convince the steward(ess)es that my phone was indeed off. They backed off - probably as they had plenty else to do in the plane. But in both cases they were not aware of 'flight-mode' and I had to educate them.
Yep, I agree that the issue is can you convince the steward(ess). I find showing them an episode of the simpsons helps!
The thing about distance though - Cells cannot be more than 35Km in radius (signal degridation), but actual cell size depends on terrain, cell capacity and the frequency the network is operating in. Now, because of the degridation in signal strength, most networks (UK and Europe, dunno about US and rest of world) will operate on a "10 km rule" - ie yes there is signal at distances greater than 10km, but usually not enough to allow a phone to log onto a network. 10km equates to just about 6 miles, making it very tough to get signal at 35000 feet. This is where the planes come in - with a phone not on a network, it will blast out attempting to connect, thus providing a greater risk of interferrence.
The 9/11 calls were made very close to the ground once the people knew what was going on, not at 35000 feet.
I failed to conince them twice on BA transatlantics that it was a harmless device - this was with showing the bloo##y Captain of a 747 the P800 flight mode menu that clearly states what 'flight mode' does!
Flew SAS to Norway last week and wish I'd known they are more up to speed! I just didnt bother getting it out as on this flight, as, although it may seem a bit dumb of them to tell me to put it away like a naughty boy particularly when I pre-empted and bought the subject to their attention in the first place; it is however a new device and the concept behind the telling off is '*safety'.
(*Still I think the ban on mobiles is more to do with 150 non frequent travelers telling their friends 'we're about to take off - whooo-hoooo!' The world is after all COVERED with radio waves - particularly that HUGE Gigahertz spike my headphones pick up from the radar tower!!!!)
D
I remember the BBC did a documentary on this a couple of years ago. They were suggesting that there was no proof whatsoever that mobile phones could interfere with the equipment on the flight deck. The CAA countered that there wasn't any proof that they DIDN'T interfere, and that when it came to air safety, they prefered to take the "Prove it's safe", rather than "Prove it isn't" route.
From memory, the programme makers concluded by suggesting it may have something to do with the fact that airlines can make big bucks out of their own on-board satelite phones (which, according to them, had never been properly tested either!) than actual safety and alledged the airlines had rather too much influence on the various saftey bodies than was proper.
For years I have been taking my mobile phone swiched ON with me when I go sail-plane flying.
Many other pilots do the same.
Never have I heard anyone complaining of any interference with any of the onboard instruments (radio, GPS, navigation computers, etc) and they are just about 0.5-1m away from the phone as the cabin is that small.
The attached photo was taken with a P800 NOT in "flight-mode".
Altough this particularly picture shows a pretty simple (analogue) set of flight instruments on some gliders instruments are quite more sofisticated (fully digital flight directors) and they also do not suffer from interference problems from the mobile.