The SPV MS Smartphone lives up to the usual MS standards...

I know ya playin!

Controling Winamp from the 7650 is pretty tasty... for all of 5 minutes.

Now, the Sierra games may win you a couple of points over the SPV, ok more like a few hundred points. But, and it's a big but, will they ever be released?!

Snails & Active Desk are my personal two 'stand-out' apps for the 7650.
Active desk is a clone of the SPV's Today screen and worms started life on the PocketPC, and a port will be released on the SPV (and will run without killing all the memory) before the 7650 version is ready.

Active desk is a clone of the SPV's Today screen

....You are getting into the M$ spirit......

SPV's Today screen is a clone of Active Desk 😃

Anyways, one of my mates got a SPV. I will meet him this Christamas when I get back to Greece. I will play with it and tell you what I think! Honest 😃

[quote="omar_g"]
Orange have sold more SPV's than 7650 in the past 2 weeks.
[/quote]

Are you sure? How do you know that? 7650 has sold over one million (and probably another million by the end of the year). SPV is never going to reach those figures.

About Bugs:
[quote="omar_g"]

Did you really count them one by one?

😃
[/quote]

So? Have you? After looking through the Modaco bugtrack and all the comments from http://www.whatmobile.net I cannot see how the SPV can be less buggier than the 7650 at the beginning. Excatly what are the bugs you are talking about (in 7650)?

The Modaco Bugtrack is huge and so is the amount of people complaining in microsoft.public.smartphone. If the 7650 was that buggy you'd think all the mobile sites would've been keeling over the angry customers.

No, i've not counted the bugs. I don't love the SPV THAT much! 😃

I've been reading the WhatMobile forums for a few months now, and signed up to the MoDaCo a few weeks ago. I've never been able to get onto the Microsoft Dev forums but I get a weekly update from it. My point being, I have read all of the same comments you have and I still believe in the SPV.

The bug list isn't that bad, most of them are related. You also forget that the SPV is aimed a tech savvy market, the 7650 wasn't and isn't. More SPV users are going to join forums and post obsucure error messages they've managed to find. How many "joe public's" are going to do the same when their 7650 crashes, slows down or restarts? Not many, they'll just take it back to the retailer.

The SPV vs 7650 sales info comes from a friend (& 7650 owner) who works at the Orange flagship store, and from the findings of the Comet buying dept. who are still considering (I gather) wether to order SPV's.

You're not getting my point here though, i'm not arguing against the 7650, I'm very happy with mine. I'm arguing for the under-rated SPV. I'm also missing Arsenal v Valencia to reply to your post! :P

Interesting ,I've just been looking at Microfosts own news server (news.microsoft.com) at their (microsoft.public.smartphone) forum. It makes interesting reading and has discussions about all the bugs and omissions from the OS. The SPV also seems to have a lot of hardware problems. Even the Microsoft staff there seem fed up!

Interestingly just today there is a discussion from people who have returned their SPV's and got 7650's instead 😊

It was mentioned earlier that more SPV's had been sold the 7650's recently. Where did this information come from? Also does it include replaced devices? I remember the early IPAQ's had a problem that lead to a large number of returns which artificially inflated it shipping figures for a quarter.

[quote="omar_g"]
You're not getting my point here though, i'm not arguing against the 7650, I'm very happy with mine. I'm arguing for the under-rated SPV. I'm also missing Arsenal v Valencia to reply to your post! :P[/quote]

Agreed... As a Symbian advocate I tend the overreact to everything non-Symbian 😊 But now, go watch the game! 😊

langdona,

It doesn't inlcude returns as these arn't collated for sales data.

Malebuffy,

The PocketPC platform had the Today screen before ActiveDesk was even an idea in the minds of the developers!

[quote="omar_g"]
Snails & Active Desk are my personal two 'stand-out' apps for the 7650.
Active desk is a clone of the SPV's Today screen and worms started life on the PocketPC, and a port will be released on the SPV (and will run without killing all the memory) before the 7650 version is ready.[/quote]

But Snails is going to be without Bluetooth support on the SPV... That game is going the be awesome with friends over BT.

I'm not going to get in to an argument with you omar,cause,i'm a OpenSource,Linux,Symbian advocate an you are Microsofts one,hence we have diferent points of view.
I just want to know one thing? Why is bluetooth on the 7650 half hearted attempt,because of no Audio Profile? I find bluetooth one of the best features that the 7650 has.What about the no hearted attempt on the SPV?

Some one said they sold more SPV's than 7650 - HOW???!!!! They've only made 200,000 to date! The SPV is a pile of crap!!!! Its CRAP - And yes the 7650 did come with bugs - But not half as sevre as the SPV [My friend had one of the very first 7650's] --- Ive Used an SPV - Returned it and got a 7650 ... The 7650's are MUCH better - I mean the SPV SHOULD be better than the 7650, On paper it sounds glorious.... In theory its amazing... In practice - ITS CRAP! I was total Pro SPV a week ago when i was walking home with mine [Came with leather case and all the candy u cud want] Day 1: Loved, little peeved by a bug or two, Day 2: Liked it, Trying to search for solutions to bugs day 3: Getting somewhat annoyed, played with mates 7650 again and found it refreashing to use compared to SPV. Day 4: Its last day, Hated it, TRYING to like it... I gave it till 3pm... Then i did the deed... It went home to Car Phone Warehouse... And good ridance.

I mean it has SOME nice features - But Like MaleBuffy said its the software that makes the phone - And the SPV just lacked that 100% - And as for a release of an update in 6 months - I thought - Phra! Im not buyin a phone in the hopes that in 6 months time it will work!!!! And why will they Really want to work on an old phone wen they cud spend time on a new one to rake in the profits!?

I ask you.... Use one for a few days solid.... and tell me you preffere it over the 7650!

[quote="Zipper"]....And the SPV just lacked that 100% - And as for a release of an update in 6 months - I thought - Phra! Im not buyin a phone in the hopes that in 6 months time it will work!!!![/quote]

Ol' Zipper has a point... Why buy a car without a steering wheel in the vain hope that the manufacturer susses out how to fit the damned thing making it possible to drive the car?

My daytime job involves programming embedded micro's (Hitachi H8/300H family in anyone is remotely interested 😉 and I have to agree with whoever it was that mentioned so long as the hardware is in place, the software is relatively 'a doddle'... in lay mans terms anyways 😉

How come, with all the "experience" they're alledged to have, it takes M$ attempt after attempt to get anything right in the first place with the SPV?

Some one said they sold more SPV's than 7650 - HOW???!!!! They've only made 200,000 to date!

My exact words were: "Orange have sold more SPV's than 7650 in the past 2 weeks." "2 weeks" being the key part of that sentence.
Another quote from myself: "The SPV vs 7650 sales info comes from a friend (& 7650 owner) who works at the Orange flagship store, and from the findings of the Comet buying dept. "

I ask you.... Use one for a few days solid.... and tell me you preffere it over the 7650

Again, my exact words were: "i'm not arguing against the 7650, I'm very happy with mine. I'm arguing for the under-rated SPV. "

I fear i'm wasting my breath (finger tips?) on this one though. You're all coming at it from a completely different perspective :agrue: , so i think i'll leave this thread alone.

[quote="Zippy172"]

Why buy a car without a steering wheel in the vain hope that the manufacturer susses out how to fit the damned thing making it possible to drive the car?
[/quote]

Exellent - Precisly what i have been saying - Finally some one listens 😊 Now if they just listen to the next bit>

[quote="Zippy172"]

How come, with all the "experience" they're alledged to have, it takes M$ attempt after attempt to get anything right in the first place with the SPV?[/quote]

THIS IS WHY>>> They make things full of bugs [obviously on purpose as you couldnt make that many thru lack of experiance... just not possible] THEY MAKE IT FULL OF BUGS SO PEOPLE WILL BE FORCED TO UPGRADE FOR YEARS.... Maybe not another SPV ... But anything MS... [MS get money who ever make it] Its what they do with Windows! Windows 98 being better than 95, xp better than 98 - Just not gonna mention ME as that was a flop- Did anyone actually LIKE THAT PIECE OF CRAP?!] What MS fail to realise it that there is competition out here making software that works [Unlike windows where they have a monopoly] -

Heres what they should have done from MS's point of view:

1 - Make a real good piece of kit, made us get used to Pocket Windows thing and make use know and love the interface etc... condition us to there philosphys

2 - THEN made buggy software BUT also make the previous working piece of kit completly obsolete - but we wud have to stick with windows because we all know how to use it and because everyone has it Only software for windows is made [except some people who do it because they like coding for Symbian]

3 - We wud all be MS'fied in way of phone OS from then on

Hmmm- Now see the similarity-

1 - Win 95 - Worked ace - everyone had it! Not very buggy

2 - win 98 made 95 obsolete - people upgraded - looked and felt the same

3 - now on win XP - totally buggy, but nothing else [cept symbian - sorry LINUX] and were all MS'fied

So we see Pocket windows and symbian COULD [but Pwin has had bad start] go the same way as windows and Linux - People i am telling you that is the future - Lets stick with Symbian! It works!!!

IF you think of replying to this post [I HIGHLY incourage it] Make sure you have read what i have typed so you dont try and flame me only to find u got the wrong idea because u only read a section and suddenly had the urge to reply on that bit not realising i had gone on to mention that point further etc...]. I am right in this case - weather you dis like it [those people who will try to hide and deny it with denial posts] or if you are pro MS [so they got to you, they assimilated you... The only humane thing is to kill you]

Okay seriously
3 fucking pages! okay some post a fucking screenshot, or picture of this phone please, I would like to see this phone but still cannot find a picture, so someone who has one of these, I mean seriously please a picture
is this too much to ask?

[quote="OsirisMedia"]Okay seriously
3 fucking pages! okay some post a fucking screenshot, or picture of this phone please, I would like to see this phone but still cannot find a picture, so someone who has one of these, I mean seriously please a picture
is this too much to ask?[/quote]

goto http://www.themobilerepublic.com and look at the phones section.

but here it is to see.....

looks good tho :P

Ok. I am a software developer. I understand all the misgivings of all the Software compnies out there.

I would like to remind everyone that it is the competition that makes each of them up to their heels. That should make us customers the beneficiary of it.

Don't bash M$ too much. Imagine if you have different UI when you go from one PC to another. Techie users would find it OK, but ordinary users???

The only way Linux, Symbian can beat M$ is a long term investment.

Here's my two cents:

They should target the younger generation. The 90's generation of tech people are going with M$ right now.

The not M$ should infest the young of their products. FOR FREE with HARDWARE bundle.

Imagine a college student getting used to a SYMBIAN OS in School because SYMBIAN donated the hardware and software. Upon graduation, they will be hypnotized by non M$ products, that it lives in their veins! Now these next generation would be the one to be going into the new tech work force.

M$ would not do this because it is already their time to HARVEST.

In due time, it will be the not M$ to HARVEST.

[quote="kobe24"]Ok. I am a software developer. I understand all the misgivings of all the Software compnies out there.

I would like to remind everyone that it is the competition that makes each of them up to their heels. That should make us customers the beneficiary of it.

Don't bash M$ too much. Imagine if you have different UI when you go from one PC to another. Techie users would find it OK, but ordinary users???

The only way Linux, Symbian can beat M$ is a long term investment.

Here's my two cents:

They should target the younger generation. The 90's generation of tech people are going with M$ right now.

The not M$ should infest the young of their products. FOR FREE with HARDWARE bundle.

Imagine a college student getting used to a SYMBIAN OS in School because SYMBIAN donated the hardware and software. Upon graduation, they will be hypnotized by non M$ products, that it lives in their veins! Now these next generation would be the one to be going into the new tech work force.

M$ would not do this because it is already their time to HARVEST.

In due time, it will be the not M$ to HARVEST.[/quote]

Sorry but I dont agree with anything you just said. You are describing M$ way of doing business.

I say dont harvest shit.Let people decide what is good or bad.

Malebuffy,

[quote="omar_g"]
The PocketPC platform had the Today screen before ActiveDesk was even an idea in the minds of the developers[/quote]!

I only hear Pocket PC.....well guess what.....And I quote from T3 who think the SPV is a good idea.....The Smartphone edition is an entirely diiferent OS....It is made from scratch and is not some ported OS or a downgraded W CE.

So you mean Today Screens are invented by M$.......even my Casio watch 10 years ago had one....😃

Anyways, I c your poinmt omar_g....You are still prefering the 7650...but think that the SPV is not so bad.....the thing I dont undersdtand is....whyy do you prefer the 7650 over the SPV when you think that the SPV is not such a bad phone?

the thing I dont undersdtand is....whyy do you prefer the 7650 over the SPV when you think that the SPV is not such a bad phone?

Because while the SPV is a very good phone, the 7650 is a fantastic phone. I also don't see the point in changing for an SPV just for a 'today' screen, although I was very close to doing so 😃

I was determined not to post again in this thread because a couple of the highly opinionated posts earlier got me so p****d off, AND made me miss the first half an hour of the football! But i can't resist answering questions, im a sucker! 😃 I won't be logging on here again tonight; Man U & Newcastle! :P

Newcastle rulez.......

Liverpool,any time,any place! 😃

[quote="kobe24"]They should target the younger generation.[/quote]

What do you think is happening right now? Kids grow up with their phones. And the phones they own are chosen because of their style, image, and the brand of the manufacturer. As long as the biggest manufacturers stay with Symbian/Nokia* (which is what they will probably do as they don't want the industry to become like the PC industry where the only big player is M$) people will grow up with Symbian/Nokia phones.

As far as the consumer is concerned Nokia knows the consumer, M$ doesn't. And because the consumer is the young 8-year old gamer to the 35-year old business user and not just the tech savvy 20-30 year olds who seem to enjoy their PPC's and SPV's, Nokia will own the industry in the future. Especially because smartphones will only be a small market. That's why Nokia doesn't call it a smartphone and doesn't promote its software/UI to the consumer. It's not about the technology, it's about what you can do with it. The 8-year olds can play games on their N-gage. And the 35-five year will like the 7650's PIM options. All on the same platform, but who cares about that, only we AllAboutSymbian forum people! 😃

* I say Symbian/Nokia because Nokia is the driving force behind Symbian.

[quote="Cassius"][quote="kobe24"]They should target the younger generation.[/quote]

What do you think is happening right now? Kids grow up with their phones. And the phones they own are chosen because of their style, image, and the brand of the manufacturer. As long as the biggest manufacturers stay with Symbian/Nokia* (which is what they will probably do as they don't want the industry to become like the PC industry where the only big player is M$) people will grow up with Symbian/Nokia phones.

As far as the consumer is concerned Nokia knows the consumer, M$ doesn't. And because the consumer is the young 8-year old gamer to the 35-year old business user and not just the tech savvy 20-30 year olds who seem to enjoy their PPC's and SPV's, Nokia will own the industry in the future. Especially because smartphones will only be a small market. That's why Nokia doesn't call it a smartphone and doesn't promote its software/UI to the consumer. It's not about the technology, it's about what you can do with it. The 8-year olds can play games on their N-gage. And the 35-five year will like the 7650's PIM options. All on the same platform, but who cares about that, only we AllAboutSymbian forum people! 😃

* I say Symbian/Nokia because Nokia is the driving force behind Symbian.[/quote]

Well said - Im sticking with Nokia [or SE if need be] simply because they use symbian - and symbian IMHO are the best - does wot its supposed to do consistanlty and reliably, and it does it within the same 5 seconds u tell it to do it... Its highly adaptive and super... And JAVA is fun to program, and easy to distrib so it'll have good support - and wont turn into Linux! Hopefully the bug to foul this world - commonly knowen as Microsoft will be squished and cremated, then its ashes will be burnt - them ashes will be burnt, and so forth untill theres no more gas to burn with or we get board and go home. [Or MS gets a face lift and starts makin good software, but hey, that'll never happen]

BTW im not TOTALLY ainti SPV!!! Granted its a pile of crap, but it looks nice... A nice looking pile of useless crap

thsui phone looks pretty damn sweet, but alas all the bugs forementioned tend to put ppl off a bit

so ill stick with the good ol 7650
but I wish we could customise the 7650 OS a little, make it a bit more prettier.

I'm not getting into a huge debate but my thoughts can be sumemd up like this...

Series 60 and Symbian OS built from small things upwards, so can easiily scale in small devices / memories and footprints.

Micosoft Stinger OS (and PPC to be fair) started from full blown Windows and tried to crunch it into something a bit too small.

The majority of problems all stem from that. After all if you're jamming code down to fit into small spaces, you don't have time to concentrate on other funky stuff.

I had the SPV for 15 days and treated it like a new born baby - and it still died on me.

Took it back and paid the extra cash for a 7650, which is certainly better.

The SPV hardware is cheaply made, except for the excellent screen. The buttons are beyond TERRIBLE. The software is slow, and a little buggy. There are frequent delays when using the device, as it simply freezes up.

Using the camers is laborious - not at all intuitive, and overall the user experience suffers in comparison so Symbian devices. Oh, and the ringtones and ABOMINABLE - very simply and shoddy. Not polyphonic. No bluetooth or Java either, and a very limited supply of certified apps, guaranteeing no freeware!

A few good points, though; great screen, built-in and very competent web browser, Instant Messenger and Media Player. Easy synchronisation with your desktop.

Overall: don't touch with a bargepole.

Definitely the best description for the SPV so far 😃

[quote="GhostDog"]Definitely the best description for the SPV so far 😃[/quote]

Yep 😊 A new one for the dictionary

SPV [SP'V, Sounds Pictures Video, English] Crap, to freeze up, to crash, to annoy. ALT. Microsoft

I have to admit - I havent got that much against MS-products. I agree with the critisism of the licensing policy, but thats as far as it goes. Weve seen a lot of companies go up against MS, and so far MS has got the upper hand in all those races (X-box might be an exception, but the jurys still out on that one). Remember Netscape? OS2? Palms going that way as well, I think - and Apples got its niches, but its not a serious comptitor.

Ive tried the SPV for about a month or so, and its way better than any other phone ive seen - the easy sync, the compatability with pc-standards and the MP3/WM alone beats the competion. Standards may be a bad thing if youre a technophile who whants to be able to modify everything, but for the rest of us - its actually quite a good thing. I dont have the nerves or the time to learn a different OS for every single device I use. So Im not worried about the MS dominace - at the moment they're ahaed of the game, and until I see better things from someone else, I'll be using MS devices.

Oh, and by the way - my SPV hasnt frozen or chrashed ONCE since Ive had it. I had a software update a week ago that made it a bit faster, though.