In a special edition of AAS Insight, recorded on the launch day of the Ovi Store, Rafe, Ewan and Steve share their first thoughts on Nokia's content shop. We talk about some of the initial connectivity and load problems (but try not to dwell on them), the usability of the Ovi Store on-device client. We conclude, after kicking the store while it's down (literally), by sharing some of our positive impressions.
Read on in the full article.
great to put up your thoughts so quickly. Would you please make it available as downloadable mp3 like your other podcasts, though?
Thanks in advance, Nemoi
Now added - http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/media/item/AAS_Podcast_129_Ovi_Store_Launch_Day-Insight_Special.php
These are straight off impressions, so not as polished as we would like. We'll be talking more about this in the podcast after next.
For example I've had more of a play with Ovi Store on S60 5th Edition and overall the client experience is better IMHO. The extra screen real estate helps as does touch.... sort of suspect widget was designed with touch primary.
I wondered at that too. I think Rafe got carried away with the acronym! 8-) PS. It rhymes with 'Right Back At 'Ya' ....
Where is the 20,000 items Nokia promised would be available at launch? Even if you select all devices they are hugely off 20,000.
I agree with the podcast, I think this will go just like both N-Gage's before have gone and flop. Nokia needs to address the core problem first which is the SDK is poor. They need to also get developers interested in the platform again because they've probably lost most of them to the iPhone.
An App Store without apps isn't much of a store. Filling it with Java junk doesn't help either (Yes I know Java as a language is not to blame but the fact that Java apps are written for the most feeble of handsets is what lets them down on higher end devices).
This is yet another epic fail by Nokia.
>>An App Store without apps isn't much of a store. Filling it with Java junk doesn't help either (Yes I know Java as a language is not to blame but the fact that Java apps are written for the most feeble of handsets is what lets them down on higher end devices).
Exactly. This is what I was trying to get at in the podcast. Java apps can be quite good, but even the best of them usually offers a significantly worse experience than average S60 native apps. People will see all those games, go 'Ooh', start buying a few and then seeing that they're by and large a load of lowest-common-denominator rubbish.... 8-(
If I were Ovi Store's manager, I'd have made sure that the S60 games by Epocware, Celeris, Herocraft (and others) were all listed UP FRONT in the Games section. Never mind the Java rubbish.
wow, I was amazed at the critical reception just the roll out received from you guys. I had downloaded the Ovi Store beforehand (without having a chance to try it out) so thought that was a little harsh.
But after an hour trying the application out... Oh my god, what a clunky, slow, sorry excuse for a store. I've nothing else to say that hasn't already been said but what were they thinking? This isn't even beta quality...
The roll out, the application, the content... What strategy is Nokia playing with all of this? Is there a strategy beyond pure desperation to get a store up and running?
The only good thing - Rafe, Steve and Ewan reacting as it happened, live reporting, gut reactions - loved it all! More of it guys - I was always taught that your first reaction can often be the right reaction!
Hi
This is a sad joke of a service. It will be more stable when the interest dies out and it will since without a good OS and programming API no real good application will be made quickly. Hence no content, no load on the system so better QOS to nothing.
This is what happens to companies that are just me also copycat. Same as with the MS search services.
Now what do you think the number of request and downloads are in the OVI store today compared to the iPhone app store? My guess is 1/1000 to 1/10.000. The web version looks so poor and the navigation is when it works braindead.
Nokia has no strategy, just playing catchup to Apple. All the complaints about the iPhone are missing functionality that to most part comes in 3.0. Anyone with just a little IT experience knows that you don't win on functionality but but on all the non functional features:
1. That what you have works
2. Easy to develop to the platform.
3. Secury.
4. Fast
5. Easy to use.
.....
Nokia is 3-5 years behind before it has the OS and development tools and its own ideas.
Nokia was first at implementing a good simple and consistent monocrome interface for basic phones and has behind ever since. COlor screens, camera phones, smart phones...
/Regards
Like I said in the other thread: Ovi store is just glorified Download! with same c**p content we've seen in many other places. Why would anyone pay $ for the trash they're offering is beyond me.
Did I mention that it's cumbersome and sluggish?
Chalk it up to another Nokia failure, together with Comes With Music, Maps, and all the other c**p.
But of course after herds of fanboys download their stupid ringtones Nokia will rave what great success the Ovi store is !
Get your act together Nokia. Pathetic.
In the end the _only_ thing that matters is whether its a commercial success and makes Nokia sell more handsets. So, for example, one should remember that probably 80% of Nokia phones sold to date and every day are S40s.. putting Java apps out there prominently sort of makes sense, no? Or am I missing something (yes, I know, mind share, halo effect, you cannot be a success unless you cater for the early adopter and high end users etc etc etc. but still)?
viipottaja - you are spot on. I never got round to saying this as we going for instant reaction, As I've said in previous podcast - if you take a slightly cynical view Ovi Store is about selling ring tones and wallpaper (plus the odd game) on lower end handsets (Series 40 and some S60). That's where the numbers are.
People should also remember that 99% of people who will use Ovi Store haven't even heard of it yet. First impressions do matter and Nokia should have done better, but as you say its the long term that matters. Actually in the financials that matter long term.
The service is now running faster which is good, but this does not solve some of the client issues. Categories being hidden on the Options menu (and to add insult to injury its at the bottom) is something I find especially annoying.
haha my status loading bar moves from right to left as well steve, so you're not alone! very strange.
Well the comparisons with the apple store came up alot, and rightly so.
I don't know about everybody else here, but the "New American" strategy found with the iPhone and the Pre is starting to look mighty tempting.
The single model with direct app store compatibility and massive 3rd party hardware market seems a lot more tempting than struggling to get apps on my N85 and using the "grey" goods and retailers to expand the phone's hardware.
Yes the cameras aren't as good, and there is limited functionality, but i would rather use the iPhone, tame the mobile internet and internet comms and hit a functionality wall than barely struggle to use 20% of my n85. and the ovi store doesn't help this situation.
I will be buying an iPod touch after wwdc to keep my fingers in the pie of another O/s and train my use of a highly internet enabled device.
My contract ends just after the americans will refresh in 2010.....Nokia have got a year.
p.s. please don't think i'm trolling, I'm just feeling a bit let down by ovi store 😞
viipottaja - you are spot on. I never got round to saying this as we going for instant reaction, As I've said in previous podcast - if you take a slightly cynical view Ovi Store is about selling ring tones and wallpaper (plus the odd game) on lower end handsets (Series 40 and some S60). That's where the numbers are.
Right but if it's about promoting Java applications and catering for S40 then the few developers who don't jump ship to iPhone (If they haven't already), Android and maybe even Web OS will also write apps for the largest market which is using the lowest Nokia models as a base line. This will leave the Ovi Store with a poor collection of rubbish Java applications.
And without good native applications S60 will actually be brought down to being no different really than other phones which run feature phone OS's with Java apps. Yes it could run native apps.... but it doesn't because they are all Java apps instead.
People are coming around to running applications and games on their smartphones thanks to the iPhone but the catch is that they then might notice that compared to the iPhone, Nokia's applications and games aren't a patch on what developers offer on the Apple platform. It's going to hurt Nokia in the smartphone segment a lot.
OVI STORE RIP OFF ALERT !
Nokia wants you to pay 5 euros for "Shozu"... Did Nokia forget it's free on Shozu site??
So I would avoid Ovi Store unless you like to waste money on stuff that's free elsewhere.
Everything, and I mean EVERYTHING about Ovi store so far is a complete FAIL. Stupid name... charging for free apps... poor execution... Shall I go on? Only the hardcore fanboys will defend it.
There are great little graphics utilities from scalado ... I have bought one for �1 which is great value. By the way captcha seems to be used for replying to this thread!
I had to take out my T-Mobile SIM and put in another network SIM to get Ovi Store to appear on download. Once installed I put the T-Mobile SIM back in and it's all working well.
First impressions? It's good. Does what it needs to do just fine. There are always going to be the anal brigade and people with an axe to grind showing up first to have a moan, but realistically, your select what you want and download it to your phone. I've better things to do with my life than worry about a fancy phone app download interface.
However, I didn't need any new apps before, and I still don't. Certainly won't ever pay money for anything.
I just spent some time to experiment Ovi Store and I'm quite disappointed.
I bought 3 applications:
- FSecure Mobile Security (PROTECTED with DRM FL)
- Advanced Device Locks (NOT protected with DRM FL)
- WaveSecure Lite (NOT protected with DRM FL)
I've saved all the 3 installation package on the PC and I've been able to install the application on all mine devices. But I paid each software only for 1 device!
Now I could install these FULL applications on every device I like and I could also send these to my friends for FREE...
As a developer, the absence of every kind of license management is simply a nonsense for me.
Moreover, these installation package don't need to be cracked or certified with DevCert.
Anyone can install them and use the FULL application without paying nothing!
Probably soon, we will see all the Ovi Store applications available for free on some warez website...
I'd like to hear opinions from other developers, if there are any here around...
Marco.
Arthur wrote:OVI STORE RIP OFF ALERT !Nokia doesn't own the content or set the price. So it is Nokia who wants you to pay that, but the publisher who put the content there in the first place (they choose also the price for their content). So, complain to the Shozu developer. And if it is not the Shozu developer that's the publisher, then they're probably interested if someone else is trying to gain from their free content.Nokia wants you to pay 5 euros for "Shozu"... Did Nokia forget it's free on Shozu site??
First, I haven't seen the client as it's not available for my N95-1 yet.
Second, in a bizarre role-reversal, I find myself thinking that you guys are being quite harsh. The website, payment, and installation seem pretty good to me, apart from a little teething-trouble flakiness. I just bought 'Digital Alarm Clock' for �1.50, which I've been meaning to do for ages, but couldn't be arsed. My user experience was very favourable, and I'll be using the service again.
Clunky, slow, badly organised, weak content... I agree with all of the above and while I understand that Nokia are catering for a uniquely large and diverse customer-base (from emerging markets villages to the New York Board room) what we have in the Ovi store is messy dump of impossible-to-filter content.
But that's not my major issue and not even what will cause the store to stumble, in my view. The major issue, and one I've not seen commented on much, is price.
I can get top-notch games for my iPod Tound for under �2 and frequently for �0.59 yet Ovi is asking �3 to �6 for a game. There are dictionaries there for �21 - more than I'd pay in a bookshop for a decent OED!!
If Nokia is targetting the mass market - which means S40 - it needs to get down to micro-pricing and fast. It needs to at least benchmark against Apple's store. Casual S40 users might well do a lot with a store where most things cost pennies or a couple of quid. If they are going to be charged �5 or more per item, they won't use it.
I never thought I'd see the day where an Apple service looked like the value proposition in a market but Nokia's Ovi store is making it happen.
il.socio wrote:[knip]As a developer, the absence of every kind of license management is simply a nonsense for me.
Moreover, these installation package don't need to be cracked or certified with DevCert.
Anyone can install them and use the FULL application without paying nothing!
Probably soon, we will see all the Ovi Store applications available for free on some warez website...I'd like to hear opinions from other developers, if there are any here around...
Marco.
Problem is, there have been no changes to the Symbian installation system, so these issues are not new, have been there since the Psion 5. Ovi has no support for registration codes or the other protection mechanisms that are currently in use by other ESD's. That would be fine if the Ovi client was the only way to install apps, but it is not.
Richard Ross wrote:
But that's not my major issue and not even what will cause the store to stumble, in my view. The major issue, and one I've not seen commented on much, is price.I can get top-notch games for my iPod Tound for under �2 and frequently for �0.59 yet Ovi is asking �3 to �6 for a game. There are dictionaries there for �21 - more than I'd pay in a bookshop for a decent OED!!
If Nokia is targetting the mass market - which means S40 - it needs to get down to micro-pricing and fast. It needs to at least benchmark against Apple's store. Casual S40 users might well do a lot with a store where most things cost pennies or a couple of quid. If they are going to be charged �5 or more per item, they won't use it.
This has been said before, Nokia does not set the price. It is the content owner who is setting the price.
One mayor reason for the content owner setting a high price is that operator billing is very expensive, taking between 40% and 60% of the price after VAT has been deducted. If you do the maths (I did this in another thread), the content owner ends up with something like 25 cents for every euro.
hisyam wrote:Refreshed Download! on E65 but no Ovi client there. Tried to find the Ovi client at store.ovi.com, failed.
Have you tried store.ovi.mobi? It looks as if the client is being blocked to T-Mobile users, but this address worked for me.
N/A wrote:Nokia doesn't own the content or set the price. So it is Nokia who wants you to pay that, but the publisher who put the content there in the first place (they choose also the price for their content). So, complain to the Shozu developer. And if it is not the Shozu developer that's the publisher, then they're probably interested if someone else is trying to gain from their free content.
If that's the case then Nokia should have chosen not to publish it on Ovi.
But what did Nokia do instead? They saw an opportunity for a money grab and decided to dance along with a scheme that charges for a free product.
FRAUD.
Yes, T-Mobile SIMs block the Ovi client from appearing. (???!!!)
Easy workaround, temporarily swap sims with someone, do the download and then swap back. Everything works fine after.
This has been said before, Nokia does not set the price. It is the content owner who is setting the price.One mayor reason for the content owner setting a high price is that operator billing is very expensive, taking between 40% and 60% of the price after VAT has been deducted. If you do the maths (I did this in another thread), the content owner ends up with something like 25 cents for every euro.
I understand that - and that developers find S60 far more cumbersome and time-consuming to write for than other platforms - but I think that Nokia are going to have to face the fact that they will need to actively control the store and it's pricing. At the current rates I just cannot see it appealing to the mass-market S40 consumer or to smartphone users who are getting a better deal out of the AppStore and (I hear, though have not played with myself) the Blackberry store.
I don't like Apple's tyrannical (and sometimes just insane) approach to its store but at least the company takes responsibility for it and sets its policies and pricing. Operator billing does sound like a bind but if the apps and games on Ovi are twice the cost of those on an iPhone, it just won't get traction and will langhuish as a wallpaper/ringtone/theme repository.
It's Nokia's gig - they need to find a competitive pricing model.
Increasingly I find the differentiator between devices is software not hardware. This is exactly as it should be as 'phones' mature into genuine full-service computing platforms. If Nokia wants to remain a 'go to' brand it needs to have software that is of at least equivalent quality and price to its rivals. It doesn't right now.
Even if we take the argument that Nokia is a global mass-market operator not a western 'premium' proposition like Apple, they still face Samsung (new movie stor and apps and games coming), LG and a host of other hungry, well-funded competitors eager to get a slice of the S40 market.
I thought people were being a bit harsh on Ovi, but now that I've experienced it myself I think they were spot on. I registered yesterday using the website and chose my E61 phone. What did it show me for applications? UpCode. Only useful to me if I can figure out how to graft a camera on my E61. Mildly annoying, but not a fatal flaw. I then switched to my phone, updated Download and there's an Ovi link!?! OK I click the Ovi link and it uses Services to go to the website. Slow and ugly.
So then I registered for Ovi e-mail and put in my cell phone number so that the account could be confirmed. No confirmation text message ever arrived. Could be because I have the original ATT Wireless. So today I go to log back into Ovi and it fails saying that I must register. Then I try reregistering with my User Name from yesterday, but it says that User Name is already taken. Grrr, now I'm really getting annoyed. I think I'll wait a few months or years and try again once they have things working.