What a silly game of Chinese Whispers. The Guardian newspaper in the UK quotes 'industry insiders' as saying that Nokia is going to introduce an Android device, something which I thought made no sense, and then half the Symbian ecosystem blogs jump up and down giving credence to the story. Nokia has stepped in, thankfully, and firmly quoshed the bloggers' fun and games, with a press statement via Reuters. For the record, I think the 'insider' was confused - no doubt they were thinking of the upcoming Maemo tablets and thought that this was in some way linked to Android.
Read on in the full article.
not true of course. and some info from an insider over mobile-review forums
"The Guardian article is horseshit.
Maemo is the new high end platform.
First device, already well-leaked, in Autumn.
Second device Q1 next year.
New cool UI on top of Maemo from around June next year.
There is no way Nokia is going to throw in the towel at this stage and adopt Android."
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There is no way Nokia is going to throw in the towel at this stage and adopt Android
I agree not now, but Nokia makes phones, it will move where the market is. Compaq and IBM moved from MS-DOS to Windows when the market demanded it.
Nokia is competing with RIM and Apple, Android has lots of advantages.
quote]and some info from an insider over mobile-review forums[/quote]
Great. We should all believe some anonymous poster on a Russian website?
I agree not now, but Nokia makes phones, it will move where the market is.
Maybe. I'm still wary of putting the words "move" and "Nokia" in the same sentence. It took nokia a fair old while to join the touch craze, and even then it was with resitative screens and slow non gpu-cpus. A full generation behind the touch leaders.
Same half-assed attempts with the ovi store, ngage 2.0 and nokia messaging.
The whole open-sourcing of symbian is still a bit of an unknown at this point. Symbian ^2 is shaping up nicely but it's still 6months to a year off....
I dunno...Nokia needs to fix all this crap and fix it quick before everyone flys straight past them.
The next Symbian or Maemo better be very, very good.
Unregistered wrote:Nokia is competing with RIM and Apple, Android has lots of advantages.
and some info from an insider over mobile-review forums
Great. We should all believe some anonymous poster on a Russian website?
There is of course the press release from 23 june 2009 announcing Nokia and Intel working on a new class of mobile devices for the future.
Nokia implementing Android on a phone to see how it works, is completely believable. Better, they would be mad not to do it, "know your enemy" and all that.
Nokia actually going to sell an Android smartphone is very unbelievable, as this won't neither strategic nor tactic sense.
Why not? And while they're at it why not a few WM devices? Nokia likes to reach as many market segments as possible, don't they?
One thing is for certain: senior Nokia management cannot possibly be happy about the current sad state of S60 touch, Ovi, N97, etc.
Nokia is losing ground, and losing it quickly, in the top end range of the market. Not a good sign.
The fact is that Maemo will be the OS for their high end phones, this has been confirmed through various sources. Symbian will be delegated to mid to low range. The new Maemo device will NOT just be a tablet, it will include telephony (get your facts straight AAS).
This Maemo device has to come out quickly before people abandon the sinking ship.
The point being missed by those suggesting that Nokia should/would produce non S60/S40 handsets is that, away from the hype and fanboy love, Android and WinMo (etc etc) really are significantly inferior to Symbian.
You may, as a Nokia user, be personally frustrated with some aspect of the UI. Or the Ovi Store. Or the button placement. Or something else. You may see others that are. Fair enough, I'm sure you have a point. But really, you are throwing the baby out with the bath water. Symbian/S60 really is the most solid, proven, reliable mobile OS by a LONG way in existence today. But WinMo really is crap comparatively - for most people, most of the time (pre-empting any comments that say 'I love my WinMo handset, S60 is crap blah blah'. Microsoft really don't know what they're doing in mobile. Android really is VERY immature and unproven on multiple fronts (OS, hardware, app store, user base).
Honestly, there is a reason Nokia, as king of the hill, who have so much to lose potentially, keep plugging away at S60/S40. They're MILES better than the competition. Yeah, really. After all the hype and fanboy love for other platforms. Nokia are playing with billions and market leadership here. They're experts in mobile. Do you think they're going to blindly keep playing with the wrong OS? Sure, s60 needs a bit of spit and polish - a bit of slickness, a bit of chrome, a design change here and there. But it's the best. And given the competition, will be for a long time to come.
Arthur wrote:One thing is for certain: senior Nokia management cannot possibly be happy about the current sad state of S60 touch, Ovi, N97, etc.Nokia is losing ground, and losing it quickly, in the top end range of the market. Not a good sign.
The fact is that Maemo will be the OS for their high end phones, this has been confirmed through various sources. Symbian will be delegated to mid to low range. The new Maemo device will NOT just be a tablet, it will include telephony (get your facts straight AAS).
This Maemo device has to come out quickly before people abandon the sinking ship.
I wonder if Arthur thinks that by repeating the same old BS time after time then people will start to believe it? Not me. Nokia keep coming up with phones that a few geeks like to pick holes in but normal continue to buy them.
How dare those normal people choose a phone that Arthur doesn't like.
It's worth remembering that any phone platform out there has advantages and disadvantages, and by focussing purely on the disadvantages of one platform a person could end up with a skewed impression.
BTW, my battery is overheating and discolouring the casing. Ouch! I could fry an egg on it.
Oh wait... that's not Nokia that's someone else.
Unregistered wrote:[I agree not now, but Nokia makes phones, it will move where the market is. Compaq and IBM moved from MS-DOS to Windows when the market demanded it.
They did. Which is only to be expected as the Operating System vendor (Microsoft) released the lastest version of their OS, so the hardware makers adopted is. (for convenience leave OS/2 and OS/2 Warp out of the discussion!!)
But what Compaq and IBM didn't do was move from Windows as a primary OS to and linux distribution. Compaq did move to HP though.
Nokia will be doing Symbian with "QT for S60" user interface phones soon enough. Maemo is for oversized tablet like devices that are less portable - similar to iPhone.
Yeah cos the memory and processing footprint of the s/w is directly related to the form factor right?
Guess again.
Naturally it would be unthinkable that a corporation would deny something that was leaked prematurely, then proceed with what was earlier denied.
Obviously Symbian would be totally undermined if it emerged that Nokia were considering working with Android, even though they would just be giving themselves the luxury of being to release handsets using different operating systems, something virtually all of their competitors do. Perhaps Nokia have simply acknowledged that Symbian is now an outdated operating system that hasn't adapted as well as its competitors to the touch screen enviroment.
Frankly, the N97 is laughable as a so called flag ship product. They need to do something radical or they'll risk losing the smart phone market forever and become a manufacturer of low end hand sets.
Unregistered wrote:I wonder if Arthur thinks that by repeating the same old BS time after time then people will start to believe it? Not me.
Thanks for your input Nokia employee. We shall see when the Maemo devices come out. I just wish you had the guts to register on this site so that you won't run and hide when Maemo phones are here
This thing about Maemo is not just me saying it for the sake of it. Read other sites where people have a proven track record with their predictions and some inside info.
Unregistered wrote:BTW, my battery is overheating and discolouring the casing. Ouch! I could fry an egg on it.
Oh wait... that's not Nokia that's someone else.
Actually... it is Nokia. Ever tried E71 NAM? That thing could get quite hot.
You know what the funny thing is ? Who gives a damn about what you and I think. If the N97 you feel is the best that Nokia can come up with then I feel sorry for you. The N97 and its' OS are laughable. Ask any unbiased person.
the phone guardian just destroyed there credibility, what a waste :tongue:
The fact is that Maemo will be the OS for their high end phones, this has been confirmed through various sources. Symbian will be delegated to mid to low range. The new Maemo device will NOT just be a tablet, it will include telephony (get your facts straight AAS).
So far, I have seen nothing but RUMOURS about a Maemo phone. Maybe you believe that this counts as FACT, but I certainly don't, so try getting off your pedantic, AAS-bashing, Nokia-bashing high horse, and come back when YOU have some real FACTS rather than the pointless drivel you keep spouting...
You know what the funny thing is ? Who gives a damn about what you and I think. If the N97 you feel is the best that Nokia can come up with then I feel sorry for you. The N97 and its' OS are laughable. Ask any unbiased person.
And you consider yourself unbiased? What a joke. Given that the 5800 is currently the best-selling touch-based music phone, the OS is obviously not laughable (except to you obviously). And the reviews/remarks about the N97 are very mixed; many people think it's great many don't; that hardly makes it laughable.
So come on, why don't you give it a rest, and stop with the pointless criticism...
Unregistered wrote:The point being missed by those suggesting that Nokia should/would produce non S60/S40 handsets is that, away from the hype and fanboy love, Android and WinMo (etc etc) really are significantly inferior to Symbian.You may, as a Nokia user, be personally frustrated with some aspect of the UI. Or the Ovi Store. Or the button placement. Or something else. You may see others that are. Fair enough, I'm sure you have a point. But really, you are throwing the baby out with the bath water. Symbian/S60 really is the most solid, proven, reliable mobile OS by a LONG way in existence today. But WinMo really is crap comparatively - for most people, most of the time (pre-empting any comments that say 'I love my WinMo handset, S60 is crap blah blah'. Microsoft really don't know what they're doing in mobile. Android really is VERY immature and unproven on multiple fronts (OS, hardware, app store, user base).
What a load of absolute guff. I've used Symbian and Windows Mobile extensively, always take the time to learn how to use the os properly so I can get the most out of my phone. Have to say that I prefer Windows Mobile. Ok, it's not as 'stable' and the UI is crap, but with the likes of Samsung, HTC, LG etc adding their own front ends, something that they can't do with Symbian, they can make their products unique and make the crap WM UI irrelivant.
To say that people don't like Symbian because they 'can't get use to the button layout' is both patronising and indicative of a fan boy nature. Just because Symbian is the most stable and oldest established OS doesnt mean that its the way forward, if you want to apply that logic then we should all throw out our Apple/Linux/Windows powered PC's and go back to MS Dos.
Better still, stop being a fan boy and just buy the product that is best. Unfortunately for you that means either buying a Android or WM device.
buster wrote:What a joke. Given that the 5800 is currently the best-selling touch-based music phone, the OS is obviously not laughable ....
And because its the best selling music phone, does that make it the best. I mean be honest, would you want one? I'm not a big fan of the iPhone but would take one over the 5800 any day.
Unregistered wrote:Perhaps Nokia have simply acknowledged that Symbian is now an outdated operating system that hasn't adapted as well as its competitors to the touch screen enviroment.
Ermm, Psion Series 5 (Symbian OS5) anybody?
And because its the best selling music phone, does that make it the best. I mean be honest, would you want one? I'm not a big fan of the iPhone but would take one over the 5800 any day.
I didn't say that this made it the best, I said that it meant it wasn't laughable; hardly the same thing. As an E90 user I wouldn't want a 5800, but, quite clearly, many millions of people do want one, hence the impressive sales results.
Of course, according to Arthur, these many millions of people are all deluded fools for having bought a phone that they like, simply because he doesn't like it or its OS.
Unregistered wrote:Yeah cos the memory and processing footprint of the s/w is directly related to the form factor right?
Guess again.
Ooh! Big mistake. The form factor IS linked to the user interface. If you are going to do losts of whizzy things with your fingers then you need a big screen and you can't have a big screen in a small device.
You got pwned.
buster wrote:I didn't say that this made it the best, I said that it meant it wasn't laughable; hardly the same thing. As an E90 user I wouldn't want a 5800, but, quite clearly, many millions of people do want one, hence the impressive sales results. Of course, according to Arthur, these many millions of people are all deluded fools for having bought a phone that they like, simply because he doesn't like it or its OS.
I certianly wouldn't go as far as calling them deluded fools, but of the few people I know who purchased one, neither were happy with it. Would be interesting to compare user satistaction results to that of the iPhone...
Arthur wrote:You know what the funny thing is ? Who gives a damn about what you and I think. If the N97 you feel is the best that Nokia can come up with then I feel sorry for you. The N97 and its' OS are laughable. Ask any unbiased person.
I have asked, and the non biased people are buying it.
It's just the anal-geeks that have the problem.
Jejoma wrote:Ermm, Psion Series 5 (Symbian OS5) anybody?
If you want. but I would consider the true touch era started when Apple made it mass market.
God, I hate to give Apple credit, I have an issue with them because of the way iTunes locks you in to their products and would therefore not buy anything of theirs. They are innovative though..
Unregistered wrote: Perhaps Nokia have simply acknowledged that Symbian is now an outdated operating system that hasn't adapted as well as its competitors to the touch screen enviroment.
Of all the phone OSs in discussion, Symbian is the youngest. It is re-adapting to touch (somebody mentioned that there were devices with touch in 1997 based on earlier Symbian incarnations), but doesn't need touch. There are a great deal of people in the market place that don't like touch.
Symbian is the best OS on minimal resource. The most important thing is though, that most buyers of an iPhone, or a Symbian Phone or an Android phone buy a phone, not an OS.
Unregistered wrote:And because its the best selling music phone, does that make it the best. I mean be honest, would you want one? I'm not a big fan of the iPhone but would take one over the 5800 any day.
That's nice, but I wouldn't. Because the iPhone is not really that portable. It's a very basic thing but I thought we left the brick lumps behind years ago. It's OK for women with handbags, but I wear jeans most of the time.
It's also getting a bit of a stigma. I mean, what do you make of people that are turned on by devices? The great thing about a capacitive touch screen is that it responds well when you touch it with human skin. How long before the first iPhone app comes out where you touch it with your d i c k ? Judging by the way most iPhone users bang on about them, an app isn't necessary.
stefan made a good audio interview with scott weiss from symbian foundation. it explains a lot about ui and plans of sf in that direction
Forget what I, or others have said here. I have a suggestion for all the Nokia cheerleaders and blind fan boys:
- go to www.intomobile.com and listen to a conversation with Scott Weiss, one of the top managers at Symbian, just posted today
What does Scott Weiss say you ask? He agrees that, amongst other things, the current S60 UI is "dated", is "old" and "needs to be improved".
Get it??? It's the Symbian top manager saying it. Not trolls on forums.
What phones does mr. Weiss use? An Iphone. The shock! The horror!
Arthur wrote:Forget what I, or others have said here. I have a suggestion for all the Nokia cheerleaders and blind fan boys:- go to www.intomobile.com and listen to a conversation with Scott Weiss, one of the top managers at Symbian, just posted today
What does Scott Weiss say you ask? He agrees that, amongst other things, the current S60 UI is "dated", is "old" and "needs to be improved".
Get it??? It's the Symbian top manager saying it. Not trolls on forums.
What phones does mr. Weiss use? An Iphone. The shock! The horror!
But that's old news. QT for S60 has been announced and is on the way. The improvements have started in V5. Weiss is newly recruited to Nokia and is probably bound to AT&T by one of Apples restrictive contracts. Personally I don't think his CV is that great. The Simply Phone and and some MP3 players in his portfolio. He is no Jonathan Ive.
Basically, if Arthur or anyone don't like Symbian then nobody is holding a gun to anyones head and forcing them to buy one. Personally I like it because I just like function and I'm not superficial enough to wet myself about some transition effects.
Arthur wrote:Thanks for your input Nokia employee.
Hah! Gotcha. Proves you are nothing but a guesser and a wrong one at that.
I still can't figure out what the axe is that you need to grind. I mean, if you hate Symbian and S60 so much then why don't you just go and buy a toyphone and forget about Symbian and S60? Why do you feel the need to keep telling everybody that you don't like it? Why the personal crusade? Are you the person with the vested interest bias? Or is it that you just can't bear to be wrong all the time and must maintain this futile attempt to convince others?
Arthur wrote:What phones does mr. Weiss use? An Iphone. The shock! The horror!
And an E71 for work. You seem to have missed that part.
As for the S60v5 UI. Yup, it needs improved. I'd rather imagine that's what he's employed to do being the User Interface Technology Manager and all.
Was there anything else you wanted to troll about or are we done here?