you are right, gohstdog...i think that the 6600 isnt all that attractive and i do like the SX1 to a certain extent for maintaining a mostly rectangular candy bar shape but becos it's a Siemens I am turned off by it...
I gave SE a chance with the T610...it looks good but the camera sucks, the interface looks cool but to send an SMS, it's 4-5 more steps than Nokia. To navigate the menus is hellish and laggy, and the antenna reception is utterly weak. You wun noe if u have missed calls or SMS when the fone goes off in black standy mode.
I imagine Siemens SX1 to be beeter since it's based on Nokia's Series 60.
The T610 is not even comparable to the SX1.T610 is a regular phone with couple of quirks,like a colour screen and a camera but it runs on the same platform as the T68i which IMO was a disaster.The SX1 is a Smartphone and its powered by Symbian 6.1 and Series 60 v 1.x which is a great and recognized platform for a Smartphone.
[quote="GhostDog"]The SX1 is a Smartphone and its powered by Symbian 6.1 and Series 60 v 1.x which is a great and recognized platform for a Smartphone.[/quote]
Yep, it's ok. But it's not Symbian 7.0s and Serries 60 v2.0 which the 6600 is, and that's a major step forward!
I agree. It's the same case with the future P810/P900 which will have the next version of UIQ (UIQ 2.1). And like S60 v.2.0 it means many new and improved features like MIDP 2.0 and themes etc.
You can't compare the step from p800 to p900 with the SX1 vs 6600 situation.The SX1 is a lot stronger hardware and feature wise.Runing on a older version of the OS wont be a big downside.
I wasn't comparing P800 to P810/P900 with 6600 vs. SX1, but UIQ v.2.0 to UIQ v.2.1 with Series 60 v1.2.1 to Series 60 v.2.0. Which I think you will see has alot of similarities.
I do of course agree that all in all the SX1 sounds better on paper, but Siemens is a year late, just like they were with the S55.
They are ALREADY a year late and who knows when this thing will finally show up. They wait a little longer they may have to can it completely.
Will SX1 be released before 6600? I really don't think so now. When Nokia announced 6600 I thought Siemens would release their SX1 in the coming weeks, but months has passed and nothing! Not a review, not a test prototype, nothing.
Will it even come out?
well ghostdog is a staunch SX1 supporter, Siemens will love you to death...but there are others who feel that N6600 is more superior than SX1 and they are entitled to their thoughts...and similarly Nokia loves them to death....
mebbe one day Siemens will get that kind of reception too
[quote="GhostDog"]You can't compare the step from p800 to p900 with the SX1 vs 6600 situation.The SX1 is a lot stronger hardware and feature wise.Runing on a older version of the OS wont be a big downside.[/quote]
Of course running of the older OS will be a big downside. The SX1 will be the ONLY phone running on the older Sybmian/S60 platform in conjunction with some of the newer API's such as Java bluetooth and Media API's. All the other phones being with these API's will be S60 v2.0 phones. Development of decent full featured new applications will be done for the S60 v 2.0 phones such as the 6600 and others, and will take full advantages of the new featues that Symbian 7.0s, MIDP 2.0 and S60 V 2.0 have. Sure, you will be able to run all the old S60 v1.0 apps on your SX1, but it won't take long before great applications start appearing for the 6600, that just won't be able to run on the SX1. And there is no way that developers are going to write applications that use Java Bluetooth and S60 V1.0 when the SX1 is the only phone in the world running this combination.
As soon as both are released they may be close, but as applications appear the SX1 is going to start to look very old, very quickly. This is a fact.
IMO MIDP 2.0 won't be a hit very soon and even if it is do you think that developers will risk losing the market for other series 60 devices runing on older versions of the OS and UI(7650,3650,SX1,SGH-D700,N-gage),i don't think so,they'll just make the cross platform.
Correct me if some of the devices are mentioned are running Series 60 2.0 or Symbian 7.0s.
Ghostdog, now you make me change my opinion again, but....
even if programmers don't start right now to make new and more powerful applications for midp 2.0 and symbian 7, they will in a near future. I believe that sx1 and d700 will be the last symbian 6 devices, (after n-gage which will be released sooner) if they ever come out. from this too, I believe that sx1 will hit the market but what about d700?
Did anybody ever had any news about it apart from it�s presentation? Why it isn't spoked here and there? Why there are no new pics, nor reviews? Maybe, just maybe samsung will release a new d700 with symbian 7, why not? That's the ONLY way to gain some terrain lost.
I doubt that the SGH-D700 will be runing on a never version then Symbian 6.1 and Series 60 1.x and i doubt that it will be the last device running on Symbian 6.1 and Series 60 1.x.Why?How many Symbian devices do you know of that are announced and soon to be released?I can think of five or six(Siemens SX1, Nokia N-Gage, Nokia 6600, Benq P30, Samsung D700 - to be released before chirstmas) and the p810/p900 which is not yet announced.Well,ther are 19 more devices in active developement.Isn't there a chance that one or two of those 19 could be running on Symbian 6.1 and Series 60 1.x.After all,90% percent of the people who bought a 7650 or a 3650 don't even know what Symbian is.
I just want to say that i'm not a supporter of Nokia,Siemens,Sony Ericsson,Mc Donalds,Playboy,Toyota or any company of the sort.I'm a Symbian supported and enthusiast.I just happen to think that the SX1 is a better choice then the 6600.
BTW:I'm still using a 7650,which i will never sell,give away,or part.I was saving up for a p800 but since the p810/p900 is due to arrive guess which one i'm going to get.
[quote="GhostDog"]IMO MIDP 2.0 won't be a hit very soon and even if it is do you think that developers will risk losing the market for other series 60 devices runing on older versions of the OS and UI(7650,3650,SX1,SGH-D700,N-gage),i don't think so,they'll just make the cross platform.[/quote]
You can't make a feature cross plaform if one platform simply does not have the abiity to implementt it. Sure people will still develop applications for the older S60 models you mention. My point is that the SX1 will only be able to run applications that you could have run on a 7650 years ago. It will not be able to run any of the new stuff coming out for S60 2.0! and why would anyone buy a brand new phone that was not capable of running the lastest software. You would need to be pretty short sited to do this.
As for MIDP 2.0 not being a hit any time soon, you are way wrong! Do you realise how many people have been developing stuff for ages? The SDK and Tools have been around a long time, it just real hardware that's been missing. From a developers point fo view it is very easy to go from 1.0 to 2.0 since it's just a load of new API's not anohter language. For this reason alone there will be loads of stuff coming out as soon as the deice hits the streets.
You think developers are just going to sit back because the SX1 doesn't have it? If you think the SX1 and 6600 will come out, and that there will be hardly any software that the 6600 can run that the SX1 won't be able to... you are living in cloud coocoo land!
IMO,the real market is in native Symbian C++ apps not java,and in that case,there is a lot of room for compatibility,portability and cross platforming.And even if MIDP 2.0 is so great,one device does not make a market(Did you read my previous post?There are two released devices runing Symbian 6.1 and Series 60 1.x three announced,to be released before christmas and only one announced Symbian 7.0s Series 60 2.0 device).
Do you know that developement off apps for the 7650 and the p800 started long before they were even released,the 6600 is month or two away from release,i don't see any MIDP 2.0 apps arround or any Series 60 2.0 specific apps arround for that matter.Have you checked out forum Nokia lately?I'm "overwhelmed" by the focus on MIDP 2.0.
The developers won't have to sit back,like i said,they'll just kill two flies with one strike and develop crossplatform(if you can call it crossplatform) - i was reffering to C++ ,not java.
I'm not saying that the SX1 is not in trouble because it will be runing an older version of the OS and UI but its far away from not being capable of runing the latest software.It will not be able to run MIDP 2.0 applications but it shouldn't have problem with native Symbian C++ apps because of compatibility on the binary level between different version of Symbian OS the effort from Nokia to make jump from Series 60 1.x to 2.0 painless as possible both for users and developers.
I'm only expressing my opinions,i'm not trying to inforce them here(even if it looks like i am 😃 ).I've said what i had to say on the subject and i will be probably repeating myself if i post another reply here,so before quoting me in a reply,check if i've answered it,i probably have 😉
even if Nokia 6600 wont have that MIDP2.0 support, or an updated OS, no question here, SX1 will lose big time especially that it has been delayed a lot and that people are already sick of it. After all, it's a Siemens, and Siemens is not really a favorite brand of most people. They'd be lucky if they can maintain the fourth position for the cell market share, I hope SE overtakes them.
They might have more money because they engage themselves in other business as well but their phones dont really appeal me. Maybe SL45 but thats about it. Their phones just dont cut it
BTW it makes me really smile that GhostDog is a real dog of Siemens. The way he writes and defends Siemens reminds me of molna, the moderator of club-siemens. I wont be surprised if they are actually the same person..LOL
[quote="GhostDog"]IMO,the real market is in native Symbian C++ apps not java
[/quote]
What ever the situation is now... It will move toward java, since a MIDP 2.0 java application will run on any phone that supports MIDP 2.0, not just any Symbian phone, and as such offers bigger markets for software companies.
When buying a new phone you should be looking at what's going to happen in the next six months, not what's hppened in the last six months.
the 6600 is month or two away from release,i don't see any MIDP 2.0 apps arround or any Series 60 2.0 specific apps arround for that matter.Have you checked out forum Nokia lately?I'm "overwhelmed" by the focus on MIDP 2.0.
Why whould you see any software now? Who is going to buy it without a phone? This will all change very quickly when the phones appear. The fact that Nokia are so into MIDP 2.0 should be you a clue as to what is going to happen in the market, a market any SX1 owner will hot have access to.
It will not be able to run MIDP 2.0 applications but it shouldn't have problem with native Symbian C++ apps because of compatibility on the binary level between different version of Symbian OS
There is
NO "binary compatibility" between the two OS's. There is "backward compatibility" only, a 6600 will be able to run any applcation for the SX1 but
NOT the other way around. Symbian 7.0s has a lot of new native API's too, and as soon as a developer uses one of these you can forget running it on the SX1.
the effort from Nokia to make jump from Series 60 1.x to 2.0 painless as possible both for users and developers.
Yes, but were taking stuff written for 2.0 working on the 1.x, and that's of no interest to Nokia.
I'm only expressing my opinions,i'm not trying to inforce them here(even if it looks like i am 😃 ).
Same as we all do 😊 But... I'm only trying to put the other side of the case, since I do not agree with your opion in many areas. I believe it's called a debate? 😉
To put it simply...To me it just seems complete madness to buy a brand new phone which is not running the lastest avaliable OS... it just seems so shortsighted... just my opion 😊
I'm a real dog of Siemens,and yet,i've never owned a Siemens device,i own a Nokia 7650 and i'm saving up money to buy the latest Sony Ericsson Symbian Smartphone.
Check your facts,every version of Symbian OS is binary compatible.The incomaptibility is on the UI level and even in that case,Nokia made backwards compatibility in the form of wrapers.
Of course,apps writen with the help of Series 60 2.0 specific API's wont work on Series 60 1.x devices.
So unless you are some top dog in Nokia,you have no way of telling what is Nokia's interest and what's not.
[quote="moamoa"]a MIDP 2.0 java application will run on any phone that supports MIDP 2.0, not just any Symbian phone, and as such offers bigger markets for software companies.[/quote]Not necessarily true. MIDP 2.0 offers more features, but most aren't mandatory. JSR-185 tries to help in that, but that means you need MIDP 2.0 with JSR-185 implemented. In any case, it is still no guarantee for compatibility.
[quote="moamoa"]There is NO "binary compatibility" between the two OS's. There is "backward compatibility" only, a 6600 will be able to[/quote]Symbian 7.0s/Series 60 2.0 is binary compatible in the sense that Symbian 6.1/Series 1.x binaries/executables will run unmodified on the newer system. Vice versa doesn't work.
[quote="GhostDog"]Check your facts,every version of Symbian OS is binary compatible.The incomaptibility is on the UI leve[/quote]Not quite so; binary compatibility also means that the hardware (processors, CPU instruction set) has to be compatible too. There can also be UI-independent features/APIs in different Symbian OS version that are not available on all versions and any code that uses such, will not work on a version lacking those.
[quote="N/A"][quote="moamoa"]a MIDP 2.0 java application will run on any phone that supports MIDP 2.0, not just any Symbian phone, and as such offers bigger markets for software companies.[/quote]Not necessarily true. MIDP 2.0 offers more features, but most aren't mandatory. JSR-185 tries to help in that, but that means you need MIDP 2.0 with JSR-185 implemented. In any case, it is still no guarantee for compatibility.
[/quote]
MIDP 2.0 defines a mandatory set of API's, it has no optional ones, that's what MIDP 2.0 is! It baisically has all the stuff in it that was missing from MIDP 1.0 which caused Nokia and others to implement their own non-standard API's (Nokia UI API). Now, with these added, there is no real need for custom non-standard API's. Howver, there are a number of seperate API's that are optional (I think this is what you meant). The main ones are the Media API (Camera,Video,Audio), Messages API (SMS) and Bluetooth. Although optional in name, the 6600 has them all and I doubt very much you will see a single phone that has MIDP 2.0 which does not have all 3 major option API sets. Obviously there are absoulte guarantees for compatibility, but it's about as good as it's possible to get.
[quote="moamoa"]There is NO "binary compatibility" between the two OS's. There is "backward compatibility" only, a 6600 will be able to
Symbian 7.0s/Series 60 2.0 is binary compatible in the sense that Symbian 6.1/Series 1.x binaries/executables will run unmodified on the newer system. Vice versa doesn't work.
[/quote]
That's what I said... the 6600 is "backward compatibility"?
[quote="Anonymous"]
MIDP 2.0 defines a mandatory set of API's, it has no optional ones, that's what MIDP 2.0 is! It baisically has all the stuff in it that was missing from MIDP 1.0 which caused Nokia and others to implement their own non-standard API's (Nokia UI API).[/quote]I beg to differ. Have you read the actual specs? If not, then go to http://java.sun.com/products/midp/ and download the MIDP 2.0 spec, then search it for the words "MAY" and "SHOULD" (in Adobe Acrobat search/find dialog check "Match Whole Word Only" & ""Match Case"😉 and you'll find all the things that are *NOT* mandatory to implement, if you do a MIDP 2.0 implementation based on the spec.
Then go to http://www.jcp.org/en/jsr/detail?id=185 and see what the handset vendors try to do in order to shrink the list of optional (the MAYs and SHOULDs) stuff in the MIDP 2.0 spec and agree how most things should be interpreted. Quote from the "Goals" section: "The goal of the JTWI specification is to improve the compatibility, interoperability and completeness of J2ME technology implementations in mobile phones."
Well, as I started this nice little thread, let me continue with my story:
As you know I was using the 3650, then buying a e606, because of the UMTS features. So the SX1 is out of question for me, because I wont buy any 2g phones if I can use fully developed 3g phones.
Well for me the title of this thread should now be: e616 vs. a920
Here in austria this phones will be on the market within one month, you can already order them.
If anybody wants a first description of the e616 (the one of the a920 you can find on 3s homepage) let me know, I�ll post it here. Seems to be a very nice phone. Cool look, nice features etc.
The discussion continues... Mac
macisback,there is a separate forum dedicated to the A920,don't you think its more appropriate to continue the discussion there? 😉
Well, maybe, or just open a thread called a920 vs. 6600.
Anyhow, just wrote it here because we discussed almost any new mobile in this thread.
Sometimes discussions just go to another direction. Thats what makes forums so interesting!
Ghostdog, of course, you can be hypocrite. Who would believe that you dont own a siemens phone?? LMFAO!
Nice try
A hypocrite!?!?For saying that the SX1 will be more featured and hardware wise more powerful then the 6600 and for not owning a Siemens phone?You are having some serious problems.
I don't have a favourite brand of phones(Unlike you)I have a favourite OS(Symbian) and I don't limit myself to buying only Siemens or Only Nokia like some people I know 😉
I hope that the p810/p900 (From Sony Ericsson) will pop up soon enough and excuse me for saying this,but it will wipe the floor with your precious 6600,and the SX1 too 😮ops:
How's that for a hypocrite?
PS:You can join the forum,its free you know.I don't know which one of the 10000 guests here i'm talking to.
well everyone can have their own opinions...if it's a nokia or siemens or Se u like and u wu buy others even if others are better, that's great cos obviously the company has succeeded in biulding a relationship wif u and u r a loyal customer...
but dun pass unnecessary and irrelevant remarks without even seeing/touching/fiddling wif the fone. period. happens all the time especially to nokia just bcos it's #1.
well everyone can have their own opinions...if it's a nokia or siemens or Se u like and u wu buy others even if others are better, that's great cos obviously the company has succeeded in biulding a relationship wif u and u r a loyal customer...
but dun pass unnecessary and irrelevant remarks without even seeing/touching/fiddling wif the fone. period. happens all the time especially to nokia just bcos it's #1.